[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 Sam Reed (reedy) s...@reedyboy.net changed: What|Removed |Added CC||s...@reedyboy.net --- Comment #11 from Sam Reed (reedy) s...@reedyboy.net 2012-11-03 15:02:27 UTC --- Note, lack of fallbacks also makes a problems with mainpages in en-gb and pt-br etc. See https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Reedyoldid=310868h -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 Sam Reed (reedy) s...@reedyboy.net changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||i18n -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #12 from jeb...@gmail.com 2012-11-03 15:37:45 UTC --- We also need a way to set up project specific language fallbacks, as our fallback chains may not be what other projects would prefer. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 mybugs.m...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||mybugs.m...@gmail.com --- Comment #13 from mybugs.m...@gmail.com 2012-11-03 22:53:59 UTC --- See also: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Contact_the_development_team?oldid=316295#Fallback_names_do_not_work https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:Main_Page?oldid=316329#Portuguese_main_page -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #14 from mybugs.m...@gmail.com 2012-11-03 23:33:40 UTC --- (In reply to comment #3) Note also that some languages might have circular fallback, for example simple → en and en → simple. Also: pt → pt-br → pt (In reply to comment #5) Here we may well have the case that an item has a label in simple English but not in English. On MW interface we can also have messages translated in pt but not in pt-br (and then the pt should be used) or translated in pt-br but not in pt (and pt-br should used). (In reply to comment #9) chain in RecentChanges (and other places), but that could be changed to the users preferred languages. It is not clear how the preferred languages can be turned into a unique ordered list. In the wbgetitems API-call the supplied By preferred languages do you mean the ones defined at in the translate-pref-editassistlang field https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Preferences?uselang=qqx#mw-prefsection-editing ? (that comes from [[mw:Extension:Translate]] IIRC) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #15 from jeb...@gmail.com 2012-11-04 02:25:56 UTC --- Yes we know about circular references. There are a number of examples given, and they are for variants of english but could equally well be for a number of other languages. There is a set of preferred languages that isn't included in Phase I. Basically it is a list of languages the user has flagged a special interest in, so they are made visible or used as labels and so forth. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #10 from denny vrandecic denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de 2012-08-14 14:27:43 UTC --- See also http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Language_fallback -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 denny vrandecic denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de changed: What|Removed |Added Status|ASSIGNED|NEW -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |ASSIGNED CC||daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 jeb...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia. ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=38439 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #8 from Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs 2012-07-17 14:45:31 UTC --- It seems to me that there might be some confusion between two kinds of language fallback, so I'd like to clarify. One kind is fallback between various variants of the same language like sr-el → sr or zh-hant → zh. These are the variants specified with 'variant' query parameter on Wikipedia, except that on Wikidata there may be additional fallbacks like simple → en. This should even be invisible to the user who doesn't have to know what variant is actually in the database. It is entirely another kind of fallback when we simply don't have the content in user's language or any variant and are supplying another language that we assume the user knows. In this case, language of the fallback should be visibly displayed to the user. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #9 from jeb...@gmail.com 2012-07-17 19:48:10 UTC --- Whats implemented is global fallbacks initiated by the user language, because that can be cached as it creates a unique page wherever it is used for that specific user language. There are two types of fallbacks, like you said, one for similar languages and one for forms in other writhing systems. The first one needs handling now, the later form is not so urgent. The later also builds on the first as we need to get the correct Language object to be able to create the variants. The later is also not prioritized for the moment. In an ideal world with complete code we should try to find the global languages for a label, then limit them to the users chosen languages, then figure out which language transform we should use. If that fails we use the users language as a starting point for a fallback chain and use that one to find a label, then limit that to the users chosen languages, and then figure out which language transform to use. If everything fails we could then try all languages in the users preference list, and then if they all fails, we could fall back to using the item identifier itself. The problem with that is basically workload, not only to generate the page but it will be a user specific page. As we now have more or less decided to turn of caching the last point is really not an issue. For now the users own language is used as the starting point of the fallback chain in RecentChanges (and other places), but that could be changed to the users preferred languages. It is not clear how the preferred languages can be turned into a unique ordered list. In the wbgetitems API-call the supplied languages are tried first, and then the fallbacks are tried if the flag fallback is set. By setting the language with uselang other starting points than English can be used. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #7 from jeb...@gmail.com 2012-07-16 17:33:01 UTC --- See also https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/15684/ https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/15693/ -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 jeb...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia. ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=38399 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430
--- Comment #6 from jeb...@gmail.com 2012-07-11 08:59:00 UTC ---
There is a patchset that can be used for discussion at
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/15433/
This uses the current fallbacks from Language class (see $fallback in message
files) if all languages fails. Typically the current fallback which goes right
to english will be extended somewhat. For example Norwegian (bokmål) will use
nn,da,sv, Norwegian (nynorsk) will use nb,sv,da, Swedish will use
nn,nb,da and Danish will use nb,nn,sv. All will have English added to the
list by default.
If fallbacks are turned on, and if labels (or descriptions) are fallbacks, then
they are flagged as such. That is a structure like the following are returned
(the query is for labels in the nb language, but it is only found in en)
http://localhost/repo/api.php?action=wbgetitemsids=4languages=nbformat=jsonfm
{
items: {
4: {
id: 4,
labels: {
en: {
language: en,
value: Etnedal,
fallback:
}
}
}
}
}
All languages specified in the call must fail for the fallbacks to be used. If
they are used the languages list from the call is replaced one by one by the
languages list from the fallbacks. If all fallback list fails then no labels
(or descriptions) are returned.
It is only implemented for labels and descriptions in wbgetitems, fallbacks for
modules that sets the labels and descriptions give no sense.
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[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #5 from Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs 2012-07-09 07:09:55 UTC --- I am not sure that for label fallback we want to use the fallback that is used by the interface localization. The interface forms language hierarchy on the assumption that an interface message that is not defined in one language will always be defined in a parent language, or in English at last. Here we may well have the case that an item has a label in simple English but not in English. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 jeb...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||jeb...@gmail.com --- Comment #4 from jeb...@gmail.com 2012-07-07 22:47:34 UTC --- For _global_ fallback chains the Language::getFallbacksFor( $langCode ) can be used, especially for the content. Likewise the _user_ can have a have a defined fallback chain, and we can use this first and thenbuild on this to create a complete fallback chain. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 denny vrandecic denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de changed: What|Removed |Added Priority|High|Normal -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 denny vrandecic denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de changed: What|Removed |Added Summary|Specify language fallback |Specify language fallback ||(8) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs changed: What|Removed |Added CC||smole...@eunet.rs --- Comment #2 from Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs 2012-06-28 11:28:36 UTC --- Have in mind bug #37461 - in some cases conversion is needed; in some cases it is not needed to specify that a label is in a specific language. Think of handling cases of multilingual content. For example, item about the question mark may well have ? as the label. Even if some languages would want to use question mark or Fragezeichen, in other ? will probably be better than a foreign language. Another example, .com. Perhaps MUL code could be used for this. Also, there is more complex question of names. For example, Berlin means Berlin in a large number of languages, so it seems a waste not to use this fact. Perhaps a way to specify which language is the default language of the item, so other language could draw from it if possible. In some cases, additional conversion might be needed. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 36430] Specify language fallback (8)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36430 --- Comment #3 from Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs 2012-06-28 11:31:47 UTC --- Note also that some languages might have circular fallback, for example simple → en and en → simple. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
