[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-06-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Liangent liang...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia.
   ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=49589

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-06-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #22 from Benjamin Chen bencmqw...@gmail.com ---
Language conversion isn't available for centralnotice banners yes? I'm afraid.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-06-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Benjamin Chen bencmqw...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED
 Resolution|FIXED   |---

--- Comment #23 from Benjamin Chen bencmqw...@gmail.com ---
This request is processed because language converter is available on
translated pages however CNBanners still uses Translate extension. I need to
translate in zh-hans and zh-hant since they have no conversion support for
banners. Is there a way around this?

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-06-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Siebrand s.mazel...@xs4all.nl changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #24 from Siebrand s.mazel...@xs4all.nl ---
Please open a new ticket. Closing this again.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

fanchy li3939...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||li3939...@gmail.com

--- Comment #15 from fanchy li3939...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #14)
 Liangents list done in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/63678/

I am a wikidata user, and someone points me here when I asked about the
disabled zh-hans.

I think it is better to add zh-cn, zh-hk, zh-mo, zh-my, zh-sg, zh-tw and zh to
$wgTranslateBlacklist, and leaving zh-hans and zh-hant alone.

There is no automatic conversion from zh to zh-hans and zh-hant, or any bot to
do this in wikidata currently. Even if there will be automatic conversion in
future, the automatic conversion or a bot can just convert between zh-hans and
zh-hant.

zh-hans and zh-hant are precisely not the variants of zh , but the subsets of
zh. And this two subsets has intersection.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #16 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #15)
 There is no automatic conversion from zh to zh-hans and zh-hant, or any bot
 to
 do this in wikidata currently. Even if there will be automatic conversion in
 future, the automatic conversion or a bot can just convert between zh-hans
 and
 zh-hant.

The converter is generally expected to be able to accept any of variants it
knows (for zh, they're zh, zh-hans, zh-hant, zh-cn, zh-hk, zh-mo, zh-my, zh-sg
and zh-tw), and output text in any other variant.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #17 from fanchy li3939...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #16)
 (In reply to comment #15)
  There is no automatic conversion from zh to zh-hans and zh-hant, or any bot
  to
  do this in wikidata currently. Even if there will be automatic conversion in
  future, the automatic conversion or a bot can just convert between zh-hans
  and
  zh-hant.
 
 The converter is generally expected to be able to accept any of variants it
 knows (for zh, they're zh, zh-hans, zh-hant, zh-cn, zh-hk, zh-mo, zh-my,
 zh-sg
 and zh-tw), and output text in any other variant.

Sorry, I didn't noticed the automatic converter has been deployed in wikidata.
And a drop-down menu, with all 9 zh variants, has been added to non-item pages.
Currently it only accept zh. see
http://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Contents/zh-hansvariant=zh-hant
and  http://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Contents/zhvariant=zh-hant

However, I think the drop-down menu is not needed in wikidata. 6 of the 9 zh
variants are just for dialects in Chinese wikipedia. The non-item pages in
wikidata are some instructions, policies ... Besides, The dialect conversion in
Chinese wikipedia  can also be moved to wikidata, just with the help of the
multilingual labels.

If the following mechanism can be implemented, the drop-down menu is not
needed. When I choose say Simplified Chinese(zh-hans) but part of page is not
yet translated to zh-hans. Then the page is mixed with zh-hans and en. If in
that case the page can automatically load the content from zh-hant rather than
en, and automatically convert all the content from zh-hans and zh-hant to
zh-hans. Then the drop-down menu will not be needed. zh(i.e. no conversion)
pages is actually mixed with zh-hans and zh-hant, which I think no one will
read it.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #18 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #17)
 (In reply to comment #16)
  (In reply to comment #15)
   There is no automatic conversion from zh to zh-hans and zh-hant, or any 
   bot
   to
   do this in wikidata currently. Even if there will be automatic conversion 
   in
   future, the automatic conversion or a bot can just convert between zh-hans
   and
   zh-hant.
  
  The converter is generally expected to be able to accept any of variants it
  knows (for zh, they're zh, zh-hans, zh-hant, zh-cn, zh-hk, zh-mo, zh-my,
  zh-sg
  and zh-tw), and output text in any other variant.
 
 Sorry, I didn't noticed the automatic converter has been deployed in
 wikidata.
 And a drop-down menu, with all 9 zh variants, has been added to non-item
 pages.
 Currently it only accept zh. see
 http://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Contents/zh-hansvariant=zh-
 hant
 and 
 http://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Contents/zhvariant=zh-hant

You may need to move existing /zh-hans or /zh-hant pages to /zh.

 However, I think the drop-down menu is not needed in wikidata. 6 of the 9 zh
 variants are just for dialects in Chinese wikipedia. The non-item pages in
 wikidata are some instructions, policies ...

Now [[mw:Manual:$wgDisabledVariants]] but I doubt it may affect any planned
conversion work later.

 Besides, The dialect conversion
 in
 Chinese wikipedia  can also be moved to wikidata, just with the help of the
 multilingual labels.

 If the following mechanism can be implemented, the drop-down menu is not
 needed. When I choose say Simplified Chinese(zh-hans) but part of page is not
 yet translated to zh-hans. Then the page is mixed with zh-hans and en. If in
 that case the page can automatically load the content from zh-hant rather
 than
 en, and automatically convert all the content from zh-hans and zh-hant to
 zh-hans. Then the drop-down menu will not be needed. zh(i.e. no conversion)
 pages is actually mixed with zh-hans and zh-hant, which I think no one will
 read it.

I'm planning to do it later for item pages. But for content pages... It's still
needed.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #19 from fanchy li3939...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #18)
I have start a discussion(in Chinese) in wikidata project chat
(http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:%E4%BA%92%E5%8A%A9%E5%AE%A2%E6%A0%88#.E5.BC.BA.E7.83.88.E5.BB.BA.E8.AE.AE.E5.BD.BB.E5.BA.95.E6.B8.85.E9.99.A4zh-cn.2Czh-tw.2Czh-hk.2Czh-sg.2Czh-my.2Czh-mo.E8.AF.AD.E8.A8.80.E4.BB.A3.E7.A0.81)
about the 9 zh language codes, which I think has cause many problems in
Commons. Basically I hope there will be a small number of language codes for
Chinese in multilingual projects like Commons, wikidata.  Even many Chinese
don't know what the 9 zh language codes means. When writing  scripts ,
foreigners always ignore some of the variants or use it in the wrong way and
cause bugs.

 I'm planning to do it later for item pages. But for content pages... It's
 still
 needed.

For the item pages, I think we only need a automatic converter for human
writing not a automatic converter for human reading. For example, when I enter
a zh-hans label it can automatically convert it to zh-hant and store both
zh-hans and zh-hant. This will be very simple even can be done with javascript
or a bot, although it will cause a little redundancy. 

The content pages really need that kind of converter for human reading. Or it
can also be resolved with a converter for human writing as above. I think
redundancy can be toleranted if it is much more simple.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #20 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #19)
 For the item pages, I think we only need a automatic converter for human
 writing not a automatic converter for human reading. For example, when I
 enter
 a zh-hans label it can automatically convert it to zh-hant and store both
 zh-hans and zh-hant. This will be very simple even can be done with
 javascript
 or a bot, although it will cause a little redundancy. 
 
 The content pages really need that kind of converter for human reading. Or it
 can also be resolved with a converter for human writing as above. I think
 redundancy can be toleranted if it is much more simple.

I'm planning to apply conversion on display.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #21 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com ---
btw Can we stop hijacking this bug and use bug 37461 and bug 36430 instead?

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Sam Reed (reedy) s...@reedyboy.net changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #14 from Sam Reed (reedy) s...@reedyboy.net ---
Liangents list done in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/63678/

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

MF-Warburg mfwarb...@googlemail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||mfwarb...@googlemail.com

--- Comment #13 from MF-Warburg mfwarb...@googlemail.com ---
Yes, but de variants don't have automatic conversion.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #8 from Gerrit Notification Bot gerritad...@wikimedia.org ---
Related URL: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/63678 (Gerrit Change
I95814d13f5e24a6b8027fac96d209fad53d74426)

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #9 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com ---
Wait a minute. I'm not sure how Extension:Translate is used nowadays. If it's
also used for CNBanners, then this fix is inappropriate, as conversion works on
content pages only currently.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #10 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com ---
btw. about my config lines for languages other than zh, I'm not 100% sure.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com

--- Comment #11 from Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #9)
 Wait a minute. I'm not sure how Extension:Translate is used nowadays. If it's
 also used for CNBanners, then this fix is inappropriate, as conversion works
 on
 content pages only currently.

Yeah the intention that CNBanners can now be directly translated through the
translate extension (but are only published if a translation admin marks them
as published). See
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MessageGroupStatsfilter=group=Centralnotice-tgroup-Election2013_submission
as an example.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-05-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #12 from Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonew...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #10)
 btw. about my config lines for languages other than zh, I'm not 100% sure.

There could also be de-* variants?

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2013-04-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||shell
 CC||federicol...@tiscali.it,
   ||paul.kaga...@mail.ru

--- Comment #7 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it ---
We often had to delete such pages manually: if they are eligible for speedy
deletion, this is not subject to consensus but uncontroversial - +shell.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-12-30 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|Unprioritized   |Normal

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Liangent liang...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||37557, 37617

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Liangent liang...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||37559

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-13 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Siebrand s.mazel...@xs4all.nl changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|shellpolicy |
 CC||s.mazel...@xs4all.nl

--- Comment #2 from Siebrand s.mazel...@xs4all.nl 2012-06-13 17:24:59 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #1)
 To get local consensus, you can try http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Babel

This one's probably fine, Dereckson. Liangent is the maintainer of these
features. Removed shellpolicy.

This should probably be set for all Wikimedia wikis in CommonSettings.php. That
currently uses what's pasted below:

$wgTranslateBlacklist = array(
'*' = array( 'en' = 'English is the source language.', ),
);

@Liangent: Please propose a config with descriptions as above.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-13 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #3 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com 2012-06-13 17:37:01 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #2)
 (In reply to comment #1)
  To get local consensus, you can try 
  http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Babel
 
 This one's probably fine, Dereckson. Liangent is the maintainer of these
 features. Removed shellpolicy.
 
 This should probably be set for all Wikimedia wikis in CommonSettings.php. 
 That
 currently uses what's pasted below:
 
 $wgTranslateBlacklist = array(
 '*' = array( 'en' = 'English is the source language.', ),
 );
 
 @Liangent: Please propose a config with descriptions as above.

This can be fine for zh. Maybe we also want it in other languages with
variants.

$wgTranslateBlacklist = array(
'*' = array(
'en' = 'English is the source language.',
'zh-hans' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-hant' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-cn' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-hk' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-mo' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-my' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-sg' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-tw' = 'Translate in zh please.',
),
);

These may be issues for this configuration change:

gerrit 9860: So users can see converted pages in their expected fonts.
gerrit 10085: Allow anons to see updated pages (not a blocker currently because
of gerrit 8622).
gerrit 10243: So users don't need to select variant on every page view.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-13 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #4 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com 2012-06-13 18:07:24 UTC ---
$wgTranslateBlacklist = array(
'*' = array(
'en' = 'English is the source language.',

'gan-hans' = 'Translate in gan please.',
'gan-hant' = 'Translate in gan please.',

'ike-cans' = 'Translate in iu please.',
'ike-latn' = 'Translate in iu please.',

'kk-cyrl' = 'Translate in kk please.'
'kk-latn' = 'Translate in kk please.'
'kk-arab' = 'Translate in kk please.'
'kk-kz'   = 'Translate in kk please.'
'kk-tr'   = 'Translate in kk please.'
'kk-cn'   = 'Translate in kk please.'

'ku-latn' = 'Translate in ku please.',
'ku-arab' = 'Translate in ku please.',

'shi-tfng' = 'Translate in shi please.',
'shi-latn' = 'Translate in shi please.',

'sr-ec' = 'Translate in sr please.',
'sr-el' = 'Translate in sr please.',

'tg-latn' = 'Translate in tg please.',

'zh-hans' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-hant' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-cn' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-hk' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-mo' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-my' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-sg' = 'Translate in zh please.',
'zh-tw' = 'Translate in zh please.',
),
);

This is expected to be a full list of languages with variants available but be
careful with languages with a -latn variant: Text written in English (=
untranslated text  language selector) may be converted to unreadable text.

Is it Extension:Translate's responsibility to treat untranslated and translated
strings differently when displaying them (besides conversion, there's div
lang=***)?

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-13 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Siebrand s.mazel...@xs4all.nl changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||niklas.laxst...@gmail.com,
   ||robinp.1...@gmail.com

--- Comment #5 from Siebrand s.mazel...@xs4all.nl 2012-06-13 18:15:45 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #4)
 Is it Extension:Translate's responsibility to treat untranslated and 
 translated
 strings differently when displaying them (besides conversion, there's div
 lang=***)?

It probably is. I think Robin and Niklas may be able to reply here... If
something goes wrong, it should be treated as a bug, I guess (and tracked in a
different issue than this one).

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-13 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #6 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com 2012-06-13 18:23:35 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #5)
 (In reply to comment #4)
  Is it Extension:Translate's responsibility to treat untranslated and 
  translated
  strings differently when displaying them (besides conversion, there's div
  lang=***)?
 
 It probably is. I think Robin and Niklas may be able to reply here... If
 something goes wrong, it should be treated as a bug, I guess (and tracked in a
 different issue than this one).

I created bug 37559 and bug 37557.

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-12 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

Dereckson dereck...@espace-win.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||i18n, shellpolicy
 CC||dereck...@espace-win.org

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[Bug 37338] $wgTranslateBlacklist of zh-* on metawiki

2012-06-12 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37338

--- Comment #1 from Dereckson dereck...@espace-win.org 2012-06-13 01:58:40 
UTC ---
To get local consensus, you can try http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Babel

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