[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #88 from Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #87) (In reply to comment #86) With the tofu detection that recently added into ULS, users no longer see degradation of text quality for fonts they have. I think that addresses the main concern of this bug report. That was https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108024/ Given https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108735/ I think the change can currently be tested (only) on test.wikipedia.org. The main page may suffice: https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page This has not fixed the issue for me; the list of languages still looks just like in the screenshots provided here. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #89 from Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #87) (In reply to comment #86) With the tofu detection that recently added into ULS, users no longer see degradation of text quality for fonts they have. I think that addresses the main concern of this bug report. That was https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108024/ Given https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108735/ I think the change can currently be tested (only) on test.wikipedia.org. The main page may suffice: https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page So, the fix is apparently not deployed on testwiki, but it *is* deployed on beta labs: http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/ (after you register and enable ULS). And it does seem to help there, most language names are displayed in normal fonts for me; the list still looks pretty silly with some language names being pretty and antialiased and some not, but it's definitely better. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Status|RESOLVED|VERIFIED --- Comment #90 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- Thanks for confirming. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks||56292 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||upstream See Also||https://github.com/santhosh ||tr/AutonymFont/issues/50 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |WORKSFORME --- Comment #78 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- ULS has been disabled on all wikis except Wikidata (bug 46306 + https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/108735), so this bug is not relevant for WMF wikis right now. Considering we also have two duplicate reports on GitHub I think it's clearer to close this one. General discussion continues at bug 56292, bug 60304 tracks the revert of bug 46306, the future is unknown but should be bug 56433 comment 22. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #79 from Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com --- This still applies if somebody chooses to enable ULS. I suggest reopening. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #80 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #79) This still applies if somebody chooses to enable ULS. I suggest reopening. Indeed we don't know what was the rationale for bug 46306, but I suppose it was that one will just disable ULS if one doesn't see a benefit. So if the Autonym font gives you problems you won't enable it. Unregistered users can't enable preferences, so the if somebody chooses to enable ULS scenario doesn't apply to them. So, yes, technically the issue still exists but not in default code. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #81 from Raimond Spekking raimond.spekk...@gmail.com --- Now that ULS is disabled by default the usage of webfonts is totally broken: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Raymond/Webfonts :-( -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #82 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr --- I also agree that forcing ULS completely off is a bad situation. At least it should remain as an optional gadget in user preferences, possibly in the Beta preferences. I really love the possibility of switching user langguage of the interface in one click, notably for testing translatable pages, usng the ULS icon at top of pages, even if I did not like much the ugly look of the Autonym font Nothe that the Autonym font lacks is still lacking a BOLD version, for example in language navboxs displayinf the current language in Bold black instead of a normal link, or usable with the LangSelect template or the multilingual on Commonns, where all language autonyms are displayed. If the autonym class is present, and Autonym webfont downloaded, the browser will use synthetic bold which is almost unreadable in sme scripts like Hebrew. This bug cannot be marked fixed but should become a tracker, expecting for more work to be done. IT should remain open or at least replaced by a new tracking bug collecting the efforts in ULS and all the various things to do to improve it. So please reenable ULS at least in Beta preferences, and split ULS into several separate gadgets (Webfonts alone independantly of languages, IME, script variant selector for Chinese with automated transliterators, per-languuage font preferences with or without webfonts, and UI language selector) even if there remains a central dialog to setup all these components. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #83 from Peter Bowman bwmn.pe...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #82) I also agree that forcing ULS completely off is a bad situation. At least it should remain as an optional gadget in user preferences, possibly in the Beta preferences... You can still enable it in the user preferences User profile Internationalisation. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #84 from Eduard Braun eduard.bra...@gmx.de --- I'd also reopen this bug. Only because ULS can be switched off now does not mean it will not be used by people who find it useful. Additionally I could personally imagine the default state of the newly created option to be switched to enabled in future (therefore enabling ULS by default unless the user opts out). The bad font rendering was one of the worst annoyances around ULS (and probably the most visible one). Especially since it basically broke something that worked without problems before. I'd keep this bug open to track the progress of the upstream bug in Git. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com changed: What|Removed |Added Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED Resolution|WORKSFORME |--- --- Comment #85 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com --- (In reply to comment #78) ULS has been disabled on all wikis except Wikidata (bug 46306 + https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/108735), so this bug is not relevant for WMF wikis right now. Considering we also have two duplicate reports on GitHub I think it's clearer to close this one. This isn't in keeping with standard practice. We usually tag the local bug as upstream and leave the local bug open in order to make discovery easier. Thank you for adding the GitHub links to the see also section. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED Resolution|--- |FIXED --- Comment #86 from Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com --- With the tofu detection that recently added into ULS, users no longer see degradation of text quality for fonts they have. I think that addresses the main concern of this bug report. For the fonts users don't have, the issue is still present. However, going from completely unreadable tofu to more readable autonym font is an improvement in my opinion. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #87 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- (In reply to comment #82) This bug cannot be marked fixed but should become a tracker, [...] But the tracked bugs are on another bug tracker; that's the difficulty. (In reply to comment #86) With the tofu detection that recently added into ULS, users no longer see degradation of text quality for fonts they have. I think that addresses the main concern of this bug report. That was https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108024/ Given https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/108735/ I think the change can currently be tested (only) on test.wikipedia.org. The main page may suffice: https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://github.com/santhosh ||tr/AutonymFont/issues/38 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Siebrand Mazeland s.mazel...@xs4all.nl changed: What|Removed |Added CC||em...@dominikmatus.cz --- Comment #77 from Siebrand Mazeland s.mazel...@xs4all.nl --- *** Bug 57999 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #74 from Nux e...@wp.pl --- For this project, just uploading the generated fonts into the MediaWiki repository is clearly not enough, there should exist a full project containing or documenting the build tools used to perform these conversions. I don't agree. The generated font is better in practice. In practice all fonts are visible and selectable (or at least in all browsers I tried). Also note that there is a configuration in the attachment describing the process (generator_config.txt). So the effect should be reproducible without any problems. If you can make a better font go ahead. Seriously. I know that the tool (fontsquirrel) is not perfect. I've converted a different font and had to do a lot tweaking to get good results. BUT we should progress to a better solution then the current one and then fix other issues (if we can). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #75 from Santhosh Thottingal santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com --- Nux, (In reply to comment #68) Hi. Not sure what you've used for generating the font, but if you've used fontsquirrel.com, then consider the following: 1. Generate SVG font (if you're not doing it already). 2. Use ttf above woff. 3. Preserve original hinting if it was available. ULS Preserve the hints in woff and eot. See https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/95987/ (Nov 20) Documentation about how the fonts are developed: https://github.com/santhoshtr/AutonymFont/ And about how webfonts are created: see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UniversalLanguageSelector#Preparing_webfonts Note the 200% size increase in your version of the font from fontsquirrel. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346
--- Comment #76 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr ---
importing glyphs from some free fonts is not enough; some scripts need that you
also borrow the OpenType features allowing their contextual selection (for now
only the Arabic contextual forms are borrows, Indic scripts are ignored so you
only get the isolated forms of their letters, e.g. in Devenagari or
Myanmarese). The result is then incorrect.
The mandatory features should be obeyed, even if we can safely ignore optional
features such as variant forms, decorated forms (unless they are usually used
in autonyms, but anyway even in HTML these optional features are not rendered
unless you activate them specifically with specific CSS styles).
-- see the OpenType specs about which opentype feature is mandatory for each
documented script; note that some scripts are still not documented, OpenType
specifications are still a work in progress, even for scripts which are already
encoded in Unicode, notably for the most recently added ones. For example the
Myanmarese and Tibetan scripts require some mandatory features still not
documented, but that have been tried by various font vendors with more or less
success. Only the Arabic script is very precisely documented, not just
informatively in OpenType, but normatively in the Unicode specifications for
its contextual joining types, which become madatory features in the OpenType
specs, and similar features in other font technologies like AAT, Graphite, or
SVG fonts. --
Thanks for pointing where the fonts are developed.
I note that your Github repository contains a languages.txt file that you
maintain yourself manually, when it should be generated from the wiki, using a
Lua or PHP script enumerating all supported language codes (from the Site
matrix, or from languages.php) and generating the list using te equivalent of
{{#language:code}} in wiki syntax. This list may evolve over time when the
Language Committee will add new wikis, or when it will decide to change the
preferred language names.
Your list is completely unordered, and as it is long, it will be hard to see if
it does not contain duplicates, or alternate names no longer supported, or
typos. I suggest you sort this list by importing it in an Excel column to sort
it in CLDR order (make sure you've selected the English language in your Excel
document so that its CLDR collation tailoring will be correct and stable).
The other option is to prefix each line in languages.txt by the language code
and a TAB or SPACE before the autonym, allowing to sort the file simply by
language code. These language codes (using lowercase Badic latin letters a-z
and the hyphen-minus) and TAB or SPACE will not pollute the list of characters
to include into the Autonym font which already need these characters for the
autonyms themselves (the only addition would be the TAB or SPACE separator and
the newline characters which are already mapped in the font, so you don't need
specific character filters for these, when your script will generate the list
of Unicode characters to map in the generated font).
For stability of the font (if there are several deployed versions of MediaWiki
with different lists of languages supported by #language), you may want to add
an additional mul language for adding additional characters to keep, or use a
versioned line (such as kk-x-1.2 containing the language autonym for Kazakh
in version 1.2), so that the Autonym font for ULS will work on all wikis with
different versions of their language support.
Note also that these generated language names may contain RLM/LRM marks (which
you don't need to map to glyphs in the geenrated fonts, are they are to be
supported only by the text renderers themselves; but if you map glyphs for
these controls, they should be completely empty with a zero-width advance, or
should be mapped to symbols for visible controls, but this is not a good thing
to do for this Autonym font which is not intended to be used in text editors
with a visible controls mode).
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[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #71 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr --- Note that the SVG version includes 76 glyphs which are not selectable at all (they have no unicode attribute and no id attribute referenced by some assigned glyph with script features. I wonder how they can be present, or if the tool converting TTF fonts to SVG fonts simply lacks info on how to map the opentype features needed to select and render these contextual glyphs. Some of these glyphs are also non-spacing (no horiz-adv-x attribute) but also not correctly selected. Some of them are for mandatory ligatures, and should be selectable by an unicode attribute specifying 2 Unicode characters, or sometimes more. Only the contextual forms of letters in the Arabic script (up to 3 in addition to the default isolated form) are selectable. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #72 from Nux e...@wp.pl --- I don't why are those glyphs present but I think they won't be used anyway if they don't have `unicode` attribute. If someone knows for sure they are not needed, then I guess they can be removed. BTW selecting characters (and copypaste) works fine for me for all characters used for Main Page. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #73 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr --- Also the missinglyph item of the SVG is just mapped with an advance-width equal to the space character; it has no path for the glyph itself, where it should have a path drawing an empty box in that space. The unselectable glyphs seem to come from an incomplete conversion tool, that does not know really how to map the glyphs selectable by OpenType features into the necessary mappings for making them selectable by the SVG font. An SVG font cannnot use OpenType feature, because it lacks the logic included in the OpneType renderers to select these features. OpenType features have implicit selection rules from the script and character properties. Then each feature adds GSUB and GPOS rules for mapping glyph definitions. In an SVG font, all the implicit rules must be mapped (the only exception supported by current relase of the SVG font spec being the Arabic joining type). This means that Indic script cannot work with simple one-to-one mappings of a character code to a glyph, with their required features. You need to map Unicode strings (not characters) into a SVG glyph definition to support the equivalent of contextual substitutions, and use the hkern (or vkern) definitions to support the equivalent of OpneType GSUB (for contextual positioning). I think that the tool used to convert OpenType fonts to SVG font is insufficient for complex scripts (those that have REQUIRED features needed; see the OpenType specfiications). This means that extra manual tweaking are needed in the SVG font to make it work correctly (the existing tool is not doing things properly with its one-to-one character-to-glyph mappings, and its bogous unselectable zero-to-one mappings). For this project, just uploading the generated fonts into the MediaWiki repository is clearly not enough, there should exist a full project containing or documenting the build tools used to perform these conversions. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #70 from Thomas Bertels tbertels+bugzi...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #69) Created attachment 13871 [details] Nice! Thank you Maciej! It looks great on Windows XP too (Windows 7 was the worse). Now, could we replace the current https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-current/extensions/UniversalLanguageSelector/data/fontrepo/fonts/Autonym/Autonym.ttf?version=20131112 and https://bits.wikimedia.org/static-current/extensions/UniversalLanguageSelector/data/fontrepo/fonts/Autonym/Autonym.woff?version=20131112 with these uploaded by Maciej? This should then allow us to close this bug. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346
Dereckson dereck...@espace-win.org changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC||dereck...@espace-win.org
--- Comment #64 from Dereckson dereck...@espace-win.org ---
To achieve comment 63 suggestion:
#p-lang-list li {
font-size: 0.8125em !important;
}
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[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #65 from Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com --- Then the font in this one sidebar section would be larger than in all the other ones, which is going to look even more silly than the current state. I suggest not doing that. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #66 from Dereckson dereck...@espace-win.org --- Here some screenshot on Firefox 25, Windows LCD rendering (*). 12px (en.wikipedia): http://files.espace-win.org/2013/Capture.PNG 13px (fr.wikipedia): http://files.espace-win.org/2013/Capture2.PNG (*) There are two fonts rendering mode on Windows, one with LCD support when ClearView option is enabled, one without. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 praveenp me.prav...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||me.prav...@gmail.com --- Comment #67 from praveenp me.prav...@gmail.com --- Autonym font is a soulution for a problem, that never existed before ULS. Even now I didn't understand the reason to serve (load) webfonts by default to Latin languages. Nowadays even problematic Indic languages have much better support in OSs, a situation which makes Webfonts less than a necessity there. So I think most favorable solution may be disabling webfonts than 'temporarily intelligent' solutions like problematic Autonym font. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #68 from Nux e...@wp.pl --- Hi. Not sure what you've used for generating the font, but if you've used fontsquirrel.com, then consider the following: 1. Generate SVG font (if you're not doing it already). 2. Use ttf above woff. 3. Preserve original hinting if it was available. You might want to experiment a bit, but that was the best options for me when generating web fonts from open type font. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr changed: What|Removed |Added CC||verd...@wanadoo.fr --- Comment #59 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr --- For reference, you may look at this page which tests the Autonym font with all Active Wikimedias, under various styles: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum/Autonym_font_test_with_active_Wikipedias -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #60 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr --- Note that the rendering of the Autonym font may be tweaked with ULS, provided that the span using the autonym class also sets the lang attribute (as it should). So you can use ULS to select another supported webfont for each language supported by ULS. The Autonym font will be used only if you select use system font in ULS for that language. If you select another proposed webfont, it will override the font specified in that class (and this other webfont will be loaded by your browser to render this language). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #61 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr --- (In reply to comment #37) Against this common sense ULS was designed to load webfonts for a huge bunch of languages. Therefore we started to load additional font support for every Wikipedia user, even if it was most unlikely that a user actually needed it. You're wrong! Autonym in ULS was designed to load ONLY this font instead of a bunch of fonts. Performance tests show that * the download bandwidth uis highly reduced because ULS no longer needs to download many fonts (OK you don't download fonts for your installed system fonts) * the time to render the page is faster (the Autonym webfont is normally cached by your brower, it won't load again when you navigate, unless it has been updated on the server) * the browser needs to load many less fonts to render lists of language names: with your many system fonts configured for each script or language by your CSS preferences or by your browser settings, the browser will need to load all these system fonts in memory (even if the browser also uses a font rendering cache). * Nothing is changed for the rest of the page content (outside language autonyms): the content still uses your own choice of fonts * You can tweak webfonts used by ULS to use other more complete (and hinted) webfonts proposed by ULS: they will override the Autonym font if the span element containing the language name does not only use the CSS class autonym, but also sets the lang= attribute to specify its language. * You can tweak you own CSS rules to provide other local fonts you have for a specific language using CSS lang() selectors. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #62 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr --- Note that it's true that the Autonym font lacks hinting; but my test page demonstrates that it should not be used with all CSS styles, but that it works quite well within some limits (font-size:13px;font-weight;normal;font-style:normal;letter-spacing:normal), provided that the browser does not zoom in, on displays with low pixel densities (96dpi). Displays with high pixel densities look OK (example: smartphones that typically have densities around 190 dpi or more). With their default zoom (you'll experience poor readability only if you soom out). The critical bad rendering occurs: * when the browser zoom is around 120-150 dpi, because glyphs are just scaled up from a low dpi rendering (around 96 dpi on desktops/notebooks displays) without hinting, or * when rendering font sizes below 13px (for example, small text: you loose important pixels: don't render lists of languags with a reduced font size; unfortunately the default font-size of MediaWiki is reduced from the browser standard, so you see these effects with lost pixels). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #63 from Erwin Dokter er...@darcoury.nl --- (In reply to comment #62) The critical bad rendering occurs: * when rendering font sizes below 13px (for example, small text: you loose important pixels: don't render lists of languags with a reduced font size; unfortunately the default font-size of MediaWiki is reduced from the browser standard, so you see these effects with lost pixels). Actually, 13px (0.8 x 16px) is the default for Vector, and Autonym looks acceptable at 13px. However, the navbar has its font-size set to 0.75em, which causes Autonym to drop to 12px, and the problem is very apparent. Seems like a little CSS tweaking on #p-lang might solve the primary concern. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it changed: What|Removed |Added OS|All |Windows 7 --- Comment #50 from Nemo federicol...@tiscali.it --- Also setting Windows 7 as the most recent Windows cited as having the problem (PC is a bit too generic). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #51 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com --- Created attachment 13823 -- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=13823action=edit Screenshot on a default Windows 8, IE 10 Good news? It seems better on Windows 8. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #52 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com --- Created attachment 13824 -- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=13824action=edit ENWP Sidebar, Windows 8, IE 10 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #53 from Thomas Bertels tbertels+bugzi...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #51) Good news? It seems better on Windows 8. Could you test it with either Firefox/Chrome/Opera to make sure it's not just IE? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #54 from Eduard Braun eduard.bra...@gmx.de --- (In reply to comment #51) Screenshot on a default Windows 8, IE 10 Good news? It seems better on Windows 8. From your screen-shots, it seems there's something fundamentally wrong with your font rendering(besides anything Autonym may cause): - Do you notice the uneven thickness of vertical lines? This should not occur if Hinting works as expected. - You seem to have Subpixel-anti-aliasing (alias ClearType) turned off, but you seem to be still utilizing some sort of grayscale-anti-aliasing. Is this on purpose? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #55 from Liangent liang...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #54) (In reply to comment #51) Screenshot on a default Windows 8, IE 10 Good news? It seems better on Windows 8. From your screen-shots, it seems there's something fundamentally wrong with your font rendering(besides anything Autonym may cause): - Do you notice the uneven thickness of vertical lines? This should not occur if Hinting works as expected. - You seem to have Subpixel-anti-aliasing (alias ClearType) turned off, but you seem to be still utilizing some sort of grayscale-anti-aliasing. Is this on purpose? I have no idea at all. I happened to be using a Windows 8 PC (not mine) and took those screenshots. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #56 from Erwin Dokter er...@darcoury.nl --- (In reply to comment #52) Created attachment 13824 [details] ENWP Sidebar, Windows 8, IE 10 Seems like ordinary Arial. In other words, it does not use Autonym in this screenshot. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #57 from Erwin Dokter er...@darcoury.nl --- (In reply to comment #41) (In reply to comment #37) Autonym (which will by definition never be as good as a native font like Arial on Windows) I don’t understand the logic of this. Arial is hardly a great typeface anyway. Don't confuse design with legibility. Arial is the default sens-serif on Windows, and renders *very* well on Windows. Autonym renders *very* bad on Windows, because the font (and its source FreeSans) were never desigend with Windows in mind, and therefor lack any hinting. A simple fix for much of this would be to embrace installed fonts, and push Autonym to the bottom of a font stack that includes the default sans-serif fonts on the various platforms. I wonder if, indeed, “font-family: sans-serif, autonym;” would work to make this font the fallback’s fallback. Ideally, it should only be rendering text that would show up as tofu. Ideally. I doubt it. Windows usually uses the first available font in the font stack and sticks with it, and revert to its default unicode font if it can't find a glyph (usually Lucida Sans Unicode). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 --- Comment #58 from Michael Zajac mich...@zajac.ca --- (In reply to comment #57) (In reply to comment #41) (In reply to comment #37) Autonym (which will by definition never be as good as a native font like Arial on Windows) I don’t understand the logic of this. Arial is hardly a great typeface anyway. Don't confuse design with legibility. Arial is the default sens-serif on Windows, and renders *very* well on Windows. Autonym renders *very* bad on Windows, because the font (and its source FreeSans) were never desigend with Windows in mind, and therefor lack any hinting. Sure, the design of a typeface doesn’t matter as much if your system distorts the character shapes to fit a pixel grid. As higher-resolution displays are becoming common, screen hinting is going away and good font design is starting to be considered good font design. Anyway, the immediate fix is to import hinted character outlines from a better free font. Yes, easier said than done, but there’s no reason it couldn’t match Arial’s quality in any particular OS or browser. A simple fix for much of this would be to embrace installed fonts, and push Autonym to the bottom of a font stack that includes the default sans-serif fonts on the various platforms. I wonder if, indeed, “font-family: sans-serif, autonym;” would work to make this font the fallback’s fallback. Ideally, it should only be rendering text that would show up as tofu. Ideally. I doubt it. Windows usually uses the first available font in the font stack and sticks with it, and revert to its default unicode font if it can't find a glyph (usually Lucida Sans Unicode). I think it might be more complicated than that. MSIE 6 ignores fallbacks for individual characters missing from a font, but I understand that newer versions have improved on this. As far as I know, Firefox uses its own font choice and rendering engine. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 56346] Language names blurred and difficult to read using the hardcoded Autonym font on Windows computers
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56346 MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com changed: What|Removed |Added Hardware|All |PC Summary|Language names blurred and |Language names blurred and |legible with difficulty |difficult to read using the |(using the hardcoded|hardcoded Autonym font on |Autonym font) |Windows computers -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
