Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Stas Malyshev]

Hi!

> Can somebody please explain (in simple terms) what's the difference
> between "all" and "truthy" RDF dumps? I've read the explanation
> available on the wiki [1] but I still don't get it.

Technically "truthy" is the set of statements with best non-deprecated
rank for the property. Semantically, it is the value you most likely
expect as the answer to a simple question "what is X of Y", like "what
is the population of London" or "who is the wife of the US president?"

> If I'm just a user of the data, because I want to retrieve
> information about a particular item and link items with other
> graphs... what am I missing/leaving-out by using "truthy" instead of
> "all"?

Historical data - i.e. current population vs. all historic population
figures, current spouse vs.all previous marriages, current head of state
vs. list of all people occupying the office. Some other data, possibly,
such as official name vs. alias (provided that is expressed as a
property), commonly accepted value vs. alternative possibilities, etc.

> A practical example would be appreciated since it will clarify
> things, I suppose.

Current (as in, latest/best available for now) population of London
would be found as "truthy" value (wdt), all other population figures -
e.g. historical figures - will be under "all" (p/ps/psv).


-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@wikimedia.org

___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Imre Samu]

> « Ranking » is a Wikibase feature to deal with this. If one of the
statement is ranked « preferred »,
> typically the one valid at present time, then it will be the only one
present in a typical query result or in an infobox extraction.

Thank you  :)

one more question:
As a human:   how can I check  -  for example   Russia -"Truthy=simple"
statements? Is there any website?

The  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q159 links show all statements, I
want to see only the  "Truthy=simple"  statements.
What is the best practice - for debugging?

Thanks in advance,
  Imre



2017-12-03 15:10 GMT+01:00 Thomas Douillard :

> « Ranking » is a Wikibase feature to deal with this. If one of the
> statement is ranked « preferred », typically the one valid at present time,
> then it will be the only one present in a typical query result or in an
> infobox extraction.
>
> 2017-12-03 14:49 GMT+01:00 Imre Samu :
>
>> >All=contains not only the Truthy ones, but also the ones with qualifiers
>>
>> imho:  Sometimes Qualifiers is very important for multiple values  (
>>  like "Start time","End time","point in time", ... )
>> for example:   Russia https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q159  :  Russia -
>> P38:"currency"
>> has 2 "statements" both with qualifiers:
>>
>> * Russian ruble -  ( start time: 1992 )
>> * Soviet ruble  - (end time: September 1993 )
>>
>> My Question:
>> in this case - what is the "Truthy=simple" result for
>>  Russia-P38:"currency" ?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Imre
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-12-03 7:54 GMT+01:00 Fariz Darari :
>>
>>> Truthy=simple, direct, only Subject-Predicate-Object structure
>>>
>>> For example: wd:Q76127 wdt:P26 wd:Q468519 (= Sukarno hasSpouse Fatmawati)
>>>
>>> All=contains not only the Truthy ones, but also the ones with qualifiers
>>> (= how long was the marriage? when did the marriage happen?), references
>>> (sources to support the claim), and preferences (in case of multiple
>>> values, one might be preferred -- think of multiple birth dates of some
>>> people).
>>>
>>> -fariz
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Fariz
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Laura Morales  wrote:
>>>
 Can somebody please explain (in simple terms) what's the difference
 between "all" and "truthy" RDF dumps? I've read the explanation available
 on the wiki [1] but I still don't get it.
 If I'm just a user of the data, because I want to retrieve information
 about a particular item and link items with other graphs... what am I
 missing/leaving-out by using "truthy" instead of "all"?
 A practical example would be appreciated since it will clarify things,
 I suppose.

 [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_download#RDF_dumps

 ___
 Wikidata mailing list
 Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikidata mailing list
>>> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikidata mailing list
>> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Daniel Kinzler]

Am 03.12.2017 um 15:06 schrieb Fariz Darari:
> Current state gives me one result, the Russian ruble, due to its preferred 
> rank
> (notice the wdt prefix):
> 
> https://query.wikidata.org/#select%20%2a%0A%7B%20wd%3AQ159%20wdt%3AP38%20%3Fcurrency%20%7D

Ah, right - the current answer would by convention be marked as preferred, so
only it counts as "truthy". Sorry for the confusion.


-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Principal Platform Engineer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Thomas Douillard]

In the RDF dump, used by the query service, totally. See
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/Indexing/RDF_Dump_Format . In the
json dump, all these is encoded by a "mainsnak" attribute and a
"qualifiers" one : https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/DataModel/JSON

2017-12-03 15:34 GMT+01:00 Laura Morales :

> > If you want to know when, why, where, etc, you have to
> > check the qualified "full" statements.
>
> All these qualifiers are encoded as additional triples in "all", correct?
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Andrew Lih]

I had the same question about “truthy” and why we typed in “wdt” in
Wikidata Query in some places and “wd” in others.

Lukas Werkmeister gave this nice succinct explanation during our Wikicite
training, that may be useful:

https://youtu.be/XLlzTtozRY4?t=2h23m10s

-Andrew




On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 1:49 AM, Laura Morales  wrote:

> Can somebody please explain (in simple terms) what's the difference
> between "all" and "truthy" RDF dumps? I've read the explanation available
> on the wiki [1] but I still don't get it.
> If I'm just a user of the data, because I want to retrieve information
> about a particular item and link items with other graphs... what am I
> missing/leaving-out by using "truthy" instead of "all"?
> A practical example would be appreciated since it will clarify things, I
> suppose.
>
> [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_download#RDF_dumps
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>



-- 
-Andrew Lih
Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
University, Columbia University, USC
---
Email: and...@andrewlih.com
WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Laura Morales]

> If you want to know when, why, where, etc, you have to
> check the qualified "full" statements.

All these qualifiers are encoded as additional triples in "all", correct?

___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Thomas Douillard]

« Ranking » is a Wikibase feature to deal with this. If one of the
statement is ranked « preferred », typically the one valid at present time,
then it will be the only one present in a typical query result or in an
infobox extraction.

2017-12-03 14:49 GMT+01:00 Imre Samu :

> >All=contains not only the Truthy ones, but also the ones with qualifiers
>
> imho:  Sometimes Qualifiers is very important for multiple values  (
>  like "Start time","End time","point in time", ... )
> for example:   Russia https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q159  :  Russia -
> P38:"currency"
> has 2 "statements" both with qualifiers:
>
> * Russian ruble -  ( start time: 1992 )
> * Soviet ruble  - (end time: September 1993 )
>
> My Question:
> in this case - what is the "Truthy=simple" result for
>  Russia-P38:"currency" ?
>
>
> Regards,
>  Imre
>
>
>
> 2017-12-03 7:54 GMT+01:00 Fariz Darari :
>
>> Truthy=simple, direct, only Subject-Predicate-Object structure
>>
>> For example: wd:Q76127 wdt:P26 wd:Q468519 (= Sukarno hasSpouse Fatmawati)
>>
>> All=contains not only the Truthy ones, but also the ones with qualifiers
>> (= how long was the marriage? when did the marriage happen?), references
>> (sources to support the claim), and preferences (in case of multiple
>> values, one might be preferred -- think of multiple birth dates of some
>> people).
>>
>> -fariz
>>
>> Regards,
>> Fariz
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Laura Morales  wrote:
>>
>>> Can somebody please explain (in simple terms) what's the difference
>>> between "all" and "truthy" RDF dumps? I've read the explanation available
>>> on the wiki [1] but I still don't get it.
>>> If I'm just a user of the data, because I want to retrieve information
>>> about a particular item and link items with other graphs... what am I
>>> missing/leaving-out by using "truthy" instead of "all"?
>>> A practical example would be appreciated since it will clarify things, I
>>> suppose.
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_download#RDF_dumps
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikidata mailing list
>>> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikidata mailing list
>> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Fariz Darari]

Current state gives me one result, the Russian ruble, due to its preferred
rank (notice the wdt prefix):

https://query.wikidata.org/#select%20%2a%0A%7B%20wd%3AQ159%20wdt%3AP38%20%3Fcurrency%20%7D



On Dec 3, 2017 21:02, "Daniel Kinzler"  wrote:

Am 03.12.2017 um 14:49 schrieb Imre Samu:
>>All=contains not only the Truthy ones,but also the ones with qualifiers
>
> imho:  Sometimes Qualifiers is very important for multiple values  (
 like
> "Start time","End time","point in time", ... )
> for example:   Russia https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q159  :  Russia -
P38:"currency"
> has 2 "statements" both with qualifiers:
>
> * Russian ruble -  ( start time: 1992 )
> * Soviet ruble  - (end time: September 1993 )
>
> My Question:
> in this case - what is the "Truthy=simple" result for
 Russia-P38:"currency" ?

You will simply get two truthy results: Russian rubel, and Soviet rubel.
Both
are Russian currencies. If you want to know when, why, where, etc, you have
to
check the qualified "full" statements.

That's why it's called "truthy": the answer is kind of true, depending on
context.

--
Daniel Kinzler
Principal Platform Engineer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Daniel Kinzler]

Am 03.12.2017 um 14:49 schrieb Imre Samu:
>>All=contains not only the Truthy ones,but also the ones with qualifiers
> 
> imho:  Sometimes Qualifiers is very important for multiple values  (   like
> "Start time","End time","point in time", ... )
> for example:   Russia https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q159  :  Russia - 
> P38:"currency"
> has 2 "statements" both with qualifiers:
> 
> * Russian ruble -  ( start time: 1992 )
> * Soviet ruble  - (end time: September 1993 )
> 
> My Question:
> in this case - what is the "Truthy=simple" result for   Russia-P38:"currency" 
> ?

You will simply get two truthy results: Russian rubel, and Soviet rubel. Both
are Russian currencies. If you want to know when, why, where, etc, you have to
check the qualified "full" statements.

That's why it's called "truthy": the answer is kind of true, depending on 
context.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Principal Platform Engineer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Imre Samu]

>All=contains not only the Truthy ones, but also the ones with qualifiers

imho:  Sometimes Qualifiers is very important for multiple values  (   like
"Start time","End time","point in time", ... )
for example:   Russia https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q159  :  Russia -
P38:"currency"
has 2 "statements" both with qualifiers:

* Russian ruble -  ( start time: 1992 )
* Soviet ruble  - (end time: September 1993 )

My Question:
in this case - what is the "Truthy=simple" result for
 Russia-P38:"currency" ?


Regards,
 Imre



2017-12-03 7:54 GMT+01:00 Fariz Darari :

> Truthy=simple, direct, only Subject-Predicate-Object structure
>
> For example: wd:Q76127 wdt:P26 wd:Q468519 (= Sukarno hasSpouse Fatmawati)
>
> All=contains not only the Truthy ones, but also the ones with qualifiers
> (= how long was the marriage? when did the marriage happen?), references
> (sources to support the claim), and preferences (in case of multiple
> values, one might be preferred -- think of multiple birth dates of some
> people).
>
> -fariz
>
> Regards,
> Fariz
>
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Laura Morales  wrote:
>
>> Can somebody please explain (in simple terms) what's the difference
>> between "all" and "truthy" RDF dumps? I've read the explanation available
>> on the wiki [1] but I still don't get it.
>> If I'm just a user of the data, because I want to retrieve information
>> about a particular item and link items with other graphs... what am I
>> missing/leaving-out by using "truthy" instead of "all"?
>> A practical example would be appreciated since it will clarify things, I
>> suppose.
>>
>> [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_download#RDF_dumps
>>
>> ___
>> Wikidata mailing list
>> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>
>
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Maxime Lathuilière]

Additionally, and probably mostly as it's where they are taking there 
name from, truthy statements are statements with the best rank 
 on a given 
property: for instance, the Earth (Q2 
) has 3 shapes (P1419 
) statements - oblate 
spheroid (Q3241540), geoid (Q185969), and ball (Q838611) - but while 2 
(oblate spheroid, and ball) have a "normal" rank, 1 (geoid) was given a 
"preferred" rank. Thus, when considering truthy statments, the only 
value for Earth shape is geoid.


Hope that helps :)

Bests,

Maxime Lathuilière

Le 03/12/2017 à 07:54, Fariz Darari a écrit :

Truthy=simple, direct, only Subject-Predicate-Object structure

For example: wd:Q76127 wdt:P26 wd:Q468519 (= Sukarno hasSpouse Fatmawati)

All=contains not only the Truthy ones, but also the ones with 
qualifiers (= how long was the marriage? when did the marriage 
happen?), references (sources to support the claim), and preferences 
(in case of multiple values, one might be preferred -- think of 
multiple birth dates of some people).


-fariz

Regards,
Fariz

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Laura Morales > wrote:


Can somebody please explain (in simple terms) what's the
difference between "all" and "truthy" RDF dumps? I've read the
explanation available on the wiki [1] but I still don't get it.
If I'm just a user of the data, because I want to retrieve
information about a particular item and link items with other
graphs... what am I missing/leaving-out by using "truthy" instead
of "all"?
A practical example would be appreciated since it will clarify
things, I suppose.

[1]
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_download#RDF_dumps


___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org 
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata





___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata


___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

Re: [Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Fariz Darari]

Truthy=simple, direct, only Subject-Predicate-Object structure

For example: wd:Q76127 wdt:P26 wd:Q468519 (= Sukarno hasSpouse Fatmawati)

All=contains not only the Truthy ones, but also the ones with qualifiers (=
how long was the marriage? when did the marriage happen?), references
(sources to support the claim), and preferences (in case of multiple
values, one might be preferred -- think of multiple birth dates of some
people).

-fariz

Regards,
Fariz

On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Laura Morales  wrote:

> Can somebody please explain (in simple terms) what's the difference
> between "all" and "truthy" RDF dumps? I've read the explanation available
> on the wiki [1] but I still don't get it.
> If I'm just a user of the data, because I want to retrieve information
> about a particular item and link items with other graphs... what am I
> missing/leaving-out by using "truthy" instead of "all"?
> A practical example would be appreciated since it will clarify things, I
> suppose.
>
> [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_download#RDF_dumps
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata

[Wikidata] RDF: All vs Truthy

[Laura Morales]

Can somebody please explain (in simple terms) what's the difference between 
"all" and "truthy" RDF dumps? I've read the explanation available on the wiki 
[1] but I still don't get it.
If I'm just a user of the data, because I want to retrieve information about a 
particular item and link items with other graphs... what am I 
missing/leaving-out by using "truthy" instead of "all"?
A practical example would be appreciated since it will clarify things, I 
suppose.

[1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_download#RDF_dumps

___
Wikidata mailing list
Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata