Re: [Wikidata] Disputed territories in WDQS

[Jan Macura]

Dear Andra,

as OSM wiki  says,
there is (or rather used to be) one active mapper in Guyana (and none in
Suriname), who can be contacted via his/her OSM profile
.
But I rather recommend to contact Latin American community group through
the mail-list, listed at the bottom of their page
, if you really care to fix
this issue. It is quite likely that someone from the list will understand
English and will try to fix it.

Regards and thanks for caring
 Jan

On 10 April 2017 at 00:49, Andra Waagmeester  wrote:

> Hi Jan,
>
> Thanks for you input. Do you know how I can identify a local OSM
> community? I am not an avid editor on OSM (yet).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andra
>
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Jan Macura  wrote:
>
>> Hi Andra,
>>
>> very right, the data for background maps originates from the
>> OpenStreetMap, both at WDQS and Wikipedia (if you check the map of Suriname
>> by clicking the coordinates in the heading of its WP page
>> , you can see, that the Tigri
>> Area is part of Guyana).
>>
>> I've just checked the OSM data in that area and the map is de facto blind
>> there. There are only the main rivers and the state borderline with
>> "source=CIA World Database II" listed.
>> As I checked other disputed territories elsewhere, it is technically
>> possible to draw a disputed state border in OSM, but first of all, you need
>> some trustworthy source from which you can redraw the boundary.
>>
>> Best way how to fix this would be to contact local OSM community (if
>> exists) and let them check it.
>>
>> Regards
>>  Jan
>>
>> On 9 April 2017 at 15:31, Nicolas VIGNERON 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> (not 100% sure) The problem doesn't come from WDQS itself but from OSM
>>> and it should be corrected there (if possible, I don't know exactly how OSM
>>> deals with such complexe problematic).
>>>
>>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikidata mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Disputed territories in WDQS

[Andra Waagmeester]

Hi Jan,

Thanks for you input. Do you know how I can identify a local OSM
community? I am not an avid editor on OSM (yet).

Cheers,

Andra

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Jan Macura  wrote:

> Hi Andra,
>
> very right, the data for background maps originates from the
> OpenStreetMap, both at WDQS and Wikipedia (if you check the map of Suriname
> by clicking the coordinates in the heading of its WP page
> , you can see, that the Tigri
> Area is part of Guyana).
>
> I've just checked the OSM data in that area and the map is de facto blind
> there. There are only the main rivers and the state borderline with
> "source=CIA World Database II" listed.
> As I checked other disputed territories elsewhere, it is technically
> possible to draw a disputed state border in OSM, but first of all, you need
> some trustworthy source from which you can redraw the boundary.
>
> Best way how to fix this would be to contact local OSM community (if
> exists) and let them check it.
>
> Regards
>  Jan
>
> On 9 April 2017 at 15:31, Nicolas VIGNERON 
> wrote:
>
>> (not 100% sure) The problem doesn't come from WDQS itself but from OSM
>> and it should be corrected there (if possible, I don't know exactly how OSM
>> deals with such complexe problematic).
>>
>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>
>> ___
>> Wikidata mailing list
>> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Disputed territories in WDQS

[Andra Waagmeester]

Hi Daniel,

   Thanks for adding this. I like your suggestion to turn this into a
positive example and a way to get proper references. Will follow suit.

Andra

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Daniel Kinzler 
wrote:

> Hi Andrea!
>
> As Nicolas pointed out, the map view of WDQS is based on OpenStreetMap. So
> the
> territory would have to be marked as disputed there.
>
> However, perhaps you can turn this into a positive example for Wikidata's
> flexibility and NPOV afterall: I have added some statements to
>  to show how a territorial
> dispute can
> be modeled on Wikidata.
>
> I was lazy and didn't add any sources, though - I didn't know what to make
> of
> "Donovan 2003" given in Wikipedia, as it doesn't give the title of a
> publication. But I suppose sources for these things should be easy to find.
>
> HTH
> daniel
>
> Am 09.04.2017 um 14:54 schrieb Andra Waagmeester:
> > I am currently in Suriname, where I gave a talk on open
> data/wikipedia/wikidata.
> > Next week there will be a handson session, where I hope to get as much
> > contribution from this country as possible.
> >
> > When I demonstrated the WDQS, the audience took offense in the way
> Suriname is
> > depicted on the map view used in the WDQS. There is a territorial
> dispute with
> > the neighboring country Guyana, called the Tigri
> > area(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigri_Area). In the WDQS this area is
> > currently being drawn as being part of Guyana. The maps drawn in the
> WIkipedia
> > article shows how the issue is dealt with here when drawing maps. i.e.
> The area
> > is explicitly drawn as being a territorial dispute, which is more
> factual.
> >
> > Any idea's on how to get a similar mapview on the WDQS? Thanks to
> Wikipedia
> > Zero, where people can have free access to Wikidata (even in remote
> area's),
> > there is quite some potential to get people involved in adding local
> data.
> > Having the current mapview is counter productive.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Andra
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
> >
>
>
> --
> Daniel Kinzler
> Senior Software Developer
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland
> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Disputed territories in WDQS

[Jan Macura]

Hi Andra,

very right, the data for background maps originates from the OpenStreetMap,
both at WDQS and Wikipedia (if you check the map of Suriname by clicking
the coordinates in the heading of its WP page
, you can see, that the Tigri Area
is part of Guyana).

I've just checked the OSM data in that area and the map is de facto blind
there. There are only the main rivers and the state borderline with
"source=CIA World Database II" listed.
As I checked other disputed territories elsewhere, it is technically
possible to draw a disputed state border in OSM, but first of all, you need
some trustworthy source from which you can redraw the boundary.

Best way how to fix this would be to contact local OSM community (if
exists) and let them check it.

Regards
 Jan

On 9 April 2017 at 15:31, Nicolas VIGNERON 
wrote:

> (not 100% sure) The problem doesn't come from WDQS itself but from OSM and
> it should be corrected there (if possible, I don't know exactly how OSM
> deals with such complexe problematic).
>
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>
> ___
> Wikidata mailing list
> Wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Disputed territories in WDQS

[Daniel Kinzler]

Hi Andrea!

As Nicolas pointed out, the map view of WDQS is based on OpenStreetMap. So the
territory would have to be marked as disputed there.

However, perhaps you can turn this into a positive example for Wikidata's
flexibility and NPOV afterall: I have added some statements to
 to show how a territorial dispute can
be modeled on Wikidata.

I was lazy and didn't add any sources, though - I didn't know what to make of
"Donovan 2003" given in Wikipedia, as it doesn't give the title of a
publication. But I suppose sources for these things should be easy to find.

HTH
daniel

Am 09.04.2017 um 14:54 schrieb Andra Waagmeester:
> I am currently in Suriname, where I gave a talk on open 
> data/wikipedia/wikidata.
> Next week there will be a handson session, where I hope to get as much
> contribution from this country as possible.
> 
> When I demonstrated the WDQS, the audience took offense in the way Suriname is
> depicted on the map view used in the WDQS. There is a territorial dispute with
> the neighboring country Guyana, called the Tigri
> area(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigri_Area). In the WDQS this area is
> currently being drawn as being part of Guyana. The maps drawn in the WIkipedia
> article shows how the issue is dealt with here when drawing maps. i.e. The 
> area
> is explicitly drawn as being a territorial dispute, which is more factual. 
> 
> Any idea's on how to get a similar mapview on the WDQS? Thanks to Wikipedia
> Zero, where people can have free access to Wikidata (even in remote area's),
> there is quite some potential to get people involved in adding local data.
> Having the current mapview is counter productive. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andra
> 
> 
> ___
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-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata] Disputed territories in WDQS

[Nicolas VIGNERON]

(not 100% sure) The problem doesn't come from WDQS itself but from OSM and
it should be corrected there (if possible, I don't know exactly how OSM
deals with such complexe problematic).

Cdlt, ~nicolas
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