[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T384: RfC: Dependency Injection for MediaWiki core

[DannyS712]

DannyS712 added a project: Dependency injection.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T384: RfC: Dependency Injection for MediaWiki core

[Krinkle]

Krinkle edited projects, added TechCom-RFC (TechCom-Approved); removed 
TechCom-RFC.

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Ricordisamoa, RobLa-WMF, MZMcBride, Tgr, phuedx, GWicke, JeroenDeDauw, bd808, 
Aklapper, Spage, AndyRussG, daniel, JanZerebecki, Qgil, darthmon_wmde, 
DannyS712, Nandana, kostajh, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, RazeSoldier, 
QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, D3r1ck01, Scott_WUaS, SBisson, 
Perhelion, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Bawolff, jayvdb, fbstj, santhosh, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T384: RfC: Dependency Injection for MediaWiki core

[Krinkle]

Krinkle removed a project: RfC.
TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: daniel, KrinkleCc: He7d3r, ArielGlenn, Addshore, Izno, Glaisher, Ricordisamoa, RobLa-WMF, MZMcBride, Tgr, phuedx, GWicke, JeroenDeDauw, bd808, Aklapper, Spage, AndyRussG, daniel, JanZerebecki, Qgil, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, SBisson, Wikidata-bugs, aude, jayvdb, fbstj, santhosh, Jdforrester-WMF, Mbch331, Rxy, Jay8g, Ltrlg, Krenair, Legoktm___
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T384: RfC: Dependency Injection for MediaWiki core

[daniel]

daniel added a project: User-Daniel.
TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T384EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: danielCc: He7d3r, ArielGlenn, Addshore, Izno, Glaisher, Ricordisamoa, RobLa-WMF, MZMcBride, Tgr, phuedx, GWicke, JeroenDeDauw, bd808, Aklapper, Spage, AndyRussG, daniel, JanZerebecki, Qgil, D3r1ck01, Luke081515, Wikidata-bugs, aude, jayvdb, fbstj, Mbch331, Jay8g, Ltrlg, Krenair, Legoktm___
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T384: RfC: Dependency Injection for MediaWiki core

[Danny_B]

Danny_B added a project: RfC.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T384: RfC: Dependency Injection for MediaWiki core

[daniel]

daniel added a comment.

Next step for resolving this: add a service locator to MEdiaWiki, to provide a 
"composition root" for the dependency injection. This is being tracked as 
T124792: RFC: Service Locator for MediaWiki core. 
.

Session notes: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/WikiDev16-T119032 (scroll down 
to "Dependency injection"). Transcript:

-

- Rationale: avoid strong coupling, decouple dev, improve testabiltiy, and 
higher re-use
- Services with narrow interfaces
- Needs a top level service that glues them all together
- Recent RFC discussion about this. Some consensus was reached.
  - How should services configure their containers?
  - Should services be able to detect what wiring they need? Some people are 
against this
- Shall we use a pre existing framework or roll our own?
  - Current frameworks do too much. Not worth the pain of depending on a third 
party

Questions:

- Timo: Avoid gloval variable rather than singletons
- Daniel: Avoid access to static variables and global scope. We don't want to 
modify all the hook signatures
- Chad: Avoid 3rd party framework if we will only use a fraction of it. PHP 
tends to do auto-wiring with reflection. What is the overhead of this? Biggest 
comparsion is java
- Daniel: It would happen on every request. Orginal RFC suggested auto-wiring 
with performance being a big concern. Too much magic.
- Chad: Avoid auto-wiring because its too magical. Can be nice for quick 
writing of scode but the magic can be scary.
- Daniel: I agree
- Timo: We've had to remove reflection in codebase
- [missed question]
- Kunal: Main concern is how we're goign to get people to use this. No one is 
using TitleValue
- Daniel: Several problems. Doesn't have all the info from the page table. With 
a DI framework you would have hub for services
- ChrisS: Auth plugin kind of worked but became a bear to work with. If we do 
them right then yes but we design them with a rigid interface that ends up not 
working well. Caution agaisnt extensions depending on these interfaces. Vote no 
due to auth plugin experience
- Daniel : Maybe an interim solution of a whilelist of what can be replaces
- ChrisS: Need to document the security properties and wether is standard docs 
or within the class itself
- KatieF: Would be nice to define a formatter for these new types coming from 
extensions
- Timo: Using a library as a pattern but not a framework
- RobL: How do we more forward with these two areas?
- Daniel: What should the role of arch comittee be with this?
- Greg: Why is the arch comittee not driving this forward?
- RobL: They are overseeing it but others need to be involved
- Daniel: We need time and resources. It won't immediately help build shiny new 
features. No one is responsible for building this kind of thing
- Katie: As people have time we can tackle this
- Chad: Not hearing any real objections but instead a resourcing issue. No one 
truly own nebulous parts of core like this. Should we give the arch committe 
the resources to own this?
- RobL: Whenever we have a hard question we say that we should just throw 
resources at it. This is a cop-out. We don't have huge budget to do these 
things. Some of these don't require full time resources
- Daniel: Need to follow principles and not make the problem worse
- Greg: We need to make this a project that a team owns. Need to elevate arch 
decisions to the same level as user facing features
- Brad: Speaking to lack of resources, and also the "team autonomy" point in 
the SOA discussion earlier: We used to have a team that was nominally 
responsible for stuff like this. But the WMF Engineering Reorg of Doom™ seemed 
to be aiming for more team autonomy in creating these "verticals" and killing 
the teams that used to work across the vertical lines like this.
- Ori: We're too insular to working with enterprise users


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GWicke, JeroenDeDauw, bd808, Aklapper, Spage, AndyRussG, daniel, JanZerebecki, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T384: RfC: Dependency Injection for MediaWiki core

[aude]

aude added a project: Wikidata.

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