[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Gehel]

Gehel closed this task as "Resolved".

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Gehel]

Gehel added a comment.


  Let's go with a single cluster at least for the start. If we hit any real 
life issue, we can revisit this solution.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[akosiaris]

akosiaris added a comment.


  In T280485#7510249 , 
@Zbyszko wrote:
  
  > Sorry all for the confusion my typo caused, different name for that 
magnitude in my native language is confusing me my whole life :).
  
  No worries, that's fine. You actually just triggered my encyclopedic inner 
beast which sent me down a small translation rabbithole and finally into 
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przedrostek_SI and I must say `Thanks. Today I 
learned :)`
  
  Btw, the equivalent in Greek is Διεθνές_σύστημα_μονάδων#Προθέματα_μονάδων 

 and yes a similar pattern exists in `Tera`, `Peta` and `Exa` which all are -1 
of what the sounds would implicitly suggest to a Greek person. So, I feel you.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[JMeybohm]

JMeybohm added a comment.


  I'd opt for "reuse the same [flink] cluster" from the perspective that we 
treat this snowflaky-ish in the k8s clusters. So less flink-clusters means less 
snowflakes (at some point it does become a snowball, right? 😃 ).

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[akosiaris]

akosiaris added a comment.


  In T280485#7510247 , 
@dcausse wrote:
  
  > small precision:
  > If we reuse the same cluster (same k8s namespace):
  >
  > - it's 3 more pods at 2.1G ram, cpu: 1000m each
  >
  > If we use a separate cluster (new k8s namespace):
  >
  > - add a pod at 1.6G, cpu: 500m to the 3 pods mentioned above
  
  The difference is small enough to make resource allocation irrelevant for 
this. I 'd suggest you don't try to optimize for CPU/RAM when deciding.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Zbyszko]

Zbyszko added a comment.


  Sorry all for the confusion my typo caused, different name for that magnitude 
in my native language is confusing me my whole life :).

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[dcausse]

dcausse added a comment.


  small precision:
  If we reuse the same cluster (same k8s namescape):
  
  - it's 3 more pods at 2.1G ram, cpu: 1000m each
  
  If we reuse a separate cluster (new k8s namescape):
  
  - add a pod at 1.6G, cpu: 500m to the 3 pods mentioned above

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[akosiaris]

akosiaris added a comment.


  In T280485#7510193 , 
@Gehel wrote:
  
  >>> In T280485#7506072 , 
@akosiaris wrote:
  >>>
   Is T280485#7275149  
related to blazegraph and not flink ? I am not sure what 13B triplets vs 2.8T 
triples means storage wise and in which context.
  >
  > Oh, I now see the confusion! Wrong units (typo) in the initial message. The 
current Flink updater takes data from Wikidata, which has ~13B triples.
  
  😆😆. OK, thanks for clearing that up. That 200 times increase had me worried.
  
  > The new Flink updater will add support for getting data from Commons, which 
has ~2.8B triples. So the new updater will add ~20% more resource consumption 
(assuming a linear cost).
  
  OK, that's nothing then.
  
  > This will mean:
  >
  > - additional storage on Swift (I assume this is trivial given the size of 
Swift and can be ignored)
  > - additional CPU / RAM usage on k8s
  > - additional local storage (/tmp) on the containers
  
  We got enough on all of those 3, no worries there.
  
  > It isn't super clear to me if our strategy is to increase the size of the 
current Flink cluster, or have a new cluster dedicated to the Commons updater 
(to be decided later today).
  
  Cool. Let us know what you decide. On our side, it probably isn't much more 
than 1 more deployment on the k8s cluster. That being said, and assuming my 
memory is up to date with how flink works in session cluster mode, I 'd expect 
it's able to handle this internally without needing another k8s deployment. 
It's also fine to increase the number of worker pods if that's something that 
would make things easier for you.
  
  > Duplicate the existing cluster would provide additional isolation between 
the 2 workflows. This is also the worst case scenario in terms of resource 
needed. The additional estimated resources are:
  >
  > - manager: 1 more pod at 1.6G, cpu: 500m
  > - workers: 3 pods at 2.1G ram, cpu: 1000m
  
  Even in this case, we got that capacity.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Gehel]

Gehel added a comment.


  >> In T280485#7506072 , 
@akosiaris wrote:
  >>
  >>> Is T280485#7275149  
related to blazegraph and not flink ? I am not sure what 13B triplets vs 2.8T 
triples means storage wise and in which context.
  
  Oh, I now see the confusion! Wrong units (typo) in the initial message. The 
current Flink updater takes data from Wikidata, which has ~13B triples. The new 
Flink updater will add support for getting data from Commons, which has ~2.8B 
triples. So the new updater will add ~20% more resource consumption (assuming a 
linear cost).
  
  This will mean:
  
  - additional storage on Swift (I assume this is trivial given the size of 
Swift and can be ignored)
  - additional CPU / RAM usage on k8s
  - additional local storage (/tmp) on the containers
  
  It isn't super clear to me if our strategy is to increase the size of the 
current Flink cluster, or have a new cluster dedicated to the Commons updater 
(to be decided later today).
  
  Duplicate the existing cluster would provide additional isolation between the 
2 workflows. This is also the worst case scenario in terms of resource needed. 
The additional estimated resources are:
  
  - manager: 1 more pod at 1.6G, cpu: 500m
  - workers: 3 pods at 2.1G ram, cpu: 1000m

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[akosiaris]

akosiaris added a comment.


  In T280485#7509094 , 
@Gehel wrote:
  
  > In T280485#7506072 , 
@akosiaris wrote:
  >
  >> Is T280485#7275149  
related to blazegraph and not flink ? I am not sure what 13B triplets vs 2.8T 
triples means storage wise and in which context.
  >
  > The number of triples in Blazegraph is roughly linearly correlated with the 
local storage requirement on the Flink side.
  
  OK, so we are talking about an increase that's on the order of 200 times. 
However, I am still not clear though where exactly that change would be 
depicted. Swift? The fs (I guess /tmp mostly) of the container of the 
jobmanager or the taskmanager? And do we expect the increase to actually be on 
the order mentioned above? Or are the internal flink databases more or less 
efficient than that crude calculation?

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Gehel]

Gehel added a comment.


  In T280485#7506072 , 
@akosiaris wrote:
  
  > Is T280485#7275149  
related to blazegraph and not flink ? I am not sure what 13B triplets vs 2.8T 
triples means storage wise and in which context.
  
  The number of triples in Blazegraph is roughly linearly correlated with the 
local storage requirement on the Flink side.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[akosiaris]

akosiaris added a comment.


  Hi. Given the 13 core/15GB RAM requirement, I can verify that we have that 
capacity free lying around[1], so we expect no problems there.
  
  Is T280485#7275149  
related to blazegraph and not flink ? I am not sure what 13B triplets vs 2.8T 
triples means storage wise and in which context.
  
  [1] https://w.wiki/4Q7J

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Gehel]

Gehel added a comment.


  Hey! We are working on Wikimedia Commons Query Service (WCQS - a service 
similar to WDQS, but with the data from Commons). This will add some load to 
our Flink Updater. By our estimates, it will be fairly low compared to the WDQS 
related load and we over provisioned for WDQS, so we don't expect any issues. 
Could someone in #serviceops 
 confirm?

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Gehel]

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Zbyszko]

Zbyszko added a comment.


  The most important parameter to streaming updater is related to storage - we 
have a huge surplus of computing resources in WDQS streaming updater, since 
edit rate is much lower in SDoC, there is no risk when it comes to throughput.
  
  The storage needs on the other hand are are derived from the data size 
itself, best represented as triple count. Currently WDQS sits at ~13B. WCQS is 
~2.8T, which means about 21% of storage used by WDQS. Since we planned 2x 
resources required for WDQS Streaming Updater, we are safe to proceed. It would 
make sense to add some resources to offset WCQS growth in the near future.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

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Nandana, Lahi, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Gehel]

Gehel updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T280485

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Gehel
Cc: Aklapper, RKemper, Gehel, Invadibot, MPhamWMF, maantietaja, CBogen, 
Akuckartz, Nandana, Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, aude, Tobias1984, 
Manybubbles, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T280485: Additional capacity on the k8s Flink cluster for WCQS updater

[Gehel]

Gehel created this task.
Gehel added a project: Wikidata-Query-Service.
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper.
Restricted Application added a project: Wikidata.

TASK DESCRIPTION
  As an operator of WCQS I want to ensure that there is enough capacity in our 
k8s cluster so that deploying WCQS Flink Updater isn't blocked.
  
  For context, WCQS is a service similar to WDQS but consuming data from 
Commons. The WCQS Updater is similar to the WDQS Updater, but with a different 
source of data (Commons instead of Wikidata) and an expected lower rate of 
edits.
  
  AC:
  
  - validation that there is enough capacity or a plan to increase the capacity

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T280485

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Gehel
Cc: Aklapper, RKemper, Gehel, Invadibot, MPhamWMF, maantietaja, CBogen, 
Akuckartz, Nandana, Namenlos314, Lahi, Gq86, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, merbst, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, aude, Tobias1984, 
Manybubbles, Mbch331
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