Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons Wikibase

[Andy Mabbett]

On 20 August 2014 16:51, Paul Houle  wrote:
> I have a cheap digital camera which is pretty good except that the clock
> periodically resets to a default time.

You probably need to replace the internal battery.

I keep the clock in my camera set to UTC, wherever I am in the world,
because I was always forgetting to change it/ change it back when I
changed timezones.

My hone photos, though, have "correct" local times, because my phone
updates its clock automatically.

Meh.

-- 
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@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons Wikibase

[Magnus Manske]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Paul Houle  wrote:

> I'd be particularly wary of inferring anything from the EXIF data,
>  especially the time.
>
>
> We could (should!) store the date/time anyway, and slap a "source:EXIF"
(or the like) qualifier on it.

If there is a "manual" time (e.g. written in the template), that could
become the "preferred" time statement.

One would thus, by default, get the manual time, or EXIF time if no manual
available. Or, one could ask specifically for either. Even if just to see
how reliable EXIF time is in practice...

Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [Wikidata-l] [Wikidata-tech] Breaking serialization change!

[Lydia Pintscher]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Huidong Zhang  wrote:
> Hi Lydia,
>
> Thanks for your quick reply.
>
> So the data stored at wikidata.org repository database will not change, but
> the dumps of the database will change?

The internal format will change to be the same as the external one. So
what is stored in the database will change. This is also what you get
through the XML dumps (not the JSON dumps). So those will also change.
What will not change is the external format. This is what you get
through the API for example.

> Is it possible to provide 2 kinds of
> dumps? One for raw data (in internal JSON serialization format) and one for
> data model (in exteranl JSON serialization format).

The whole point of the exercise is to make them the same ;-) The JSON
dumps at http://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/wikidata/ are what we
recommend using and they will not change.
Let me know if there is anything that's still unclear. I know it's a
bit confusing and we should have gone with one serialization format
from the start.


Cheers
Lydia

-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
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Re: [Wikidata-l] [Wikidata-tech] Breaking serialization change!

[Huidong Zhang]

Hi Lydia,

Thanks for your quick reply.

So the data stored at wikidata.org repository database will not change, but
the dumps of the database will change? Is it possible to provide 2 kinds of
dumps? One for raw data (in internal JSON serialization format) and one for
data model (in exteranl JSON serialization format).

Thanks,
Huidong


On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:54 AM, Markus Krötzsch <
mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:

> Another related question: what are the new content model strings used for
> the new format?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
>
> On 15.08.2014 20:04, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>
>> Hey folks :)
>>
>> Are you a tool author relying on dumps or Special:Export or use Lua on
>> Wikidata to access data in items? Please read on.
>> The JSON format returned by the API and what we use to store the data
>> internally has been different for a long time. This has been a
>> headache as people had to deal with two different JSON serializations.
>> We've fixed this now to only use one. This means the format you get in
>> the XML dumps, via Special:Export and when accessing the raw item page
>> content via Lua will change to be the same as what you get from the
>> API. We plan to deploy this change on August 26th.
>>
>> This is one of the remaining blockers for statements on properties and
>> further progress on Commons support.
>>
>> I'm sorry for the disruption. If you need help with adapting your
>> tools please let me know.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Lydia
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons Wikibase

[Paul Houle]

I'd be particularly wary of inferring anything from the EXIF data,
 especially the time.

I have a cheap digital camera which is pretty good except that the clock
periodically resets to a default time.  I've got a somewhat more expensive
digital camera which has the same problem.  I have an android tablet that I
assume gets the time from the net and/or GPS,  but when I took it ought of
my gym bag the other day I noticed the time display had been switched to
24hrs and the time zone was switched to central.

When I am in the photography habit,  I keep the clock set on my cameras.
 Sometimes I fall out of the habit but something interesting happens and
you'd better believe I am not going to waste time setting the clock if I
get a chance to photograph a burning car!

Similarly when travelling I might be bothered to set the timezone or not,
 more likely not if I have a layover in some place like Frankfurt or
Schiphol airport.

If somebody decided just to set the clock to Zulu I wouldn't blame them.

Also,  efforts to infer stuff from the EXIF data such as "did the flash go
off?" rarely produce interesting results.  For instance,  it's a good habit
to use the flash when you take photos of people outdoors on a bright day
because it softens the shadows.  Some people do it all the time and the
auto mode on some cameras does it by default too.  Thus,  the flash is not
an indicator that a photo was taken at night,  indoors,  in the dark,  etc.

If you filter on things like that,  or the ISO level,  or the exposure,  or
aperture,  you're unlikely to get categories that are useful.


On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Markus Krötzsch <
mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:

> On 20.08.2014 10:46, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>> Hoi,
>> When I add statements with "is a list of", the item I refer to works as
>> a base. It and all subsequent statements are required to be the result
>> of the result that is generated by WDQ in the background. The results
>> are shown automatically from within Reasonator.
>>
>> The hack is in having Reasonator interpret the limited expressions
>> available. Then again, calling Reasonator a hack is a disservice to the
>> real application it provides.
>>
>
> Not sure what you refer to, but there might be a misunderstanding here. I
> was using the word "hack" in my email to refer to the proposal of using
> additional qualifiers to express queries in Wikidata. That was a new
> proposal in the email I replied to and had nothing to do with Reasonator or
> your annotations.
>
>
> Markus
>
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-- 
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Expert on Freebase, DBpedia, Hadoop and RDF
(607) 539 6254paul.houle on Skype   ontolo...@gmail.com
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Re: [Wikidata-l] [Wikidata-tech] [Wikimedia-l] Compare person data

[Amir Ladsgroup]

Yes, I have two options, I can just skip them or I can mark them in another
color like pink or something else.

What do you think? and what color if you recommend the latter.

Best


On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Magnus Manske 
wrote:

> Thanks for this.
>
> You might want to filter it, though: For example
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q85256 states "born in 1606" (no month or
> day given), but your report at
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Ladsgroup/Birth_date_report2/26 gives
> it as 1606-01-01, which then conflicts with the date given in Wikipedias
> (1606-03-18).
>
> Wikidata is less precise than Wikipedia here, but not actually wrong.
> Maybe these cases should be treated separately from the potential errors.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Amir Ladsgroup 
> wrote:
>
>> I started this report, you can find it here
>> .
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Amir Ladsgroup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's possible and rather easy to add them  .just several regexes and
>>> list of months in that language are needed. but the issue is no major wikis
>>> except these three are using a person data template (Almost all of them
>>> have the template but almost none of them are using it widely) If any other
>>> wiki is using a person data template widely, I would be happy to implement
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Amir E. Aharoni <
>>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>
 Can we join more Wikipedias to the comparison?


 --
 Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
 http://aharoni.wordpress.com
 ‪“We're living in pieces,
 I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


 2014-08-19 10:38 GMT+03:00 Gerard Meijssen :

>  Hoi,
> Amir has created functionality that compares data from en.wp de.wp and
> it.wp. It is data about "humans" and it only shows differences where
> they
> exist. It compares those four Wikipedias with information in Wikidata.
>
> The idea is that the report will be updated regularly.
>
> The problem we face is: what should it actually look like. Should it
> just
> splatter the info on a page or is more needed. At this time we just
> have
> data [1].
>
> Please help us with something that works easily for now. Once we have
> something, it can be prettified and more functional.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> [1] http://paste.ubuntu.com/8079742/
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> 



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amir
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] [Wikimedia-l] Compare person data

[Magnus Manske]

Thanks for this.

You might want to filter it, though: For example
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q85256 states "born in 1606" (no month or day
given), but your report at
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Ladsgroup/Birth_date_report2/26 gives it
as 1606-01-01, which then conflicts with the date given in Wikipedias
(1606-03-18).

Wikidata is less precise than Wikipedia here, but not actually wrong. Maybe
these cases should be treated separately from the potential errors.

Cheers,
Magnus


On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Amir Ladsgroup  wrote:

> I started this report, you can find it here
> .
>
> Best
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Amir Ladsgroup 
> wrote:
>
>> It's possible and rather easy to add them  .just several regexes and list
>> of months in that language are needed. but the issue is no major wikis
>> except these three are using a person data template (Almost all of them
>> have the template but almost none of them are using it widely) If any other
>> wiki is using a person data template widely, I would be happy to implement
>> it.
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Amir E. Aharoni <
>> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>
>>> Can we join more Wikipedias to the comparison?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-08-19 10:38 GMT+03:00 Gerard Meijssen :
>>>
  Hoi,
 Amir has created functionality that compares data from en.wp de.wp and
 it.wp. It is data about "humans" and it only shows differences where
 they
 exist. It compares those four Wikipedias with information in Wikidata.

 The idea is that the report will be updated regularly.

 The problem we face is: what should it actually look like. Should it
 just
 splatter the info on a page or is more needed. At this time we just have
 data [1].

 Please help us with something that works easily for now. Once we have
 something, it can be prettified and more functional.
 Thanks,
  GerardM

 [1] http://paste.ubuntu.com/8079742/
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amir
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Amir
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] [Wikimedia-l] Compare person data

[Amir Ladsgroup]

I started this report, you can find it here
.

Best


On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Amir Ladsgroup  wrote:

> It's possible and rather easy to add them  .just several regexes and list
> of months in that language are needed. but the issue is no major wikis
> except these three are using a person data template (Almost all of them
> have the template but almost none of them are using it widely) If any other
> wiki is using a person data template widely, I would be happy to implement
> it.
>
> Best
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>
>> Can we join more Wikipedias to the comparison?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
>> ‪“We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>>
>>
>> 2014-08-19 10:38 GMT+03:00 Gerard Meijssen :
>>
>>>  Hoi,
>>> Amir has created functionality that compares data from en.wp de.wp and
>>> it.wp. It is data about "humans" and it only shows differences where they
>>> exist. It compares those four Wikipedias with information in Wikidata.
>>>
>>> The idea is that the report will be updated regularly.
>>>
>>> The problem we face is: what should it actually look like. Should it just
>>> splatter the info on a page or is more needed. At this time we just have
>>> data [1].
>>>
>>> Please help us with something that works easily for now. Once we have
>>> something, it can be prettified and more functional.
>>> Thanks,
>>>  GerardM
>>>
>>> [1] http://paste.ubuntu.com/8079742/
>>> ___
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>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Amir
>
>


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Re: [Wikidata-l] Access other "In Other Languages"

[Lydia Pintscher]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Lukas Benedix
 wrote:
> Will there be mockups for adding/editing all the other stuff we have in
> wikidata?
>
> For example: it is actually not possible to choose a globe for a
> coordinate via the user interface.
> Btw: there are lots of coordinates not on Q2(earth) in wikidata (and
> some coordinates without any globe)

We'll be tackling that too but not yet.


Cheers
Lydia

-- 
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Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Access other "In Other Languages"

[Lukas Benedix]

Will there be mockups for adding/editing all the other stuff we have in
wikidata?

For example: it is actually not possible to choose a globe for a
coordinate via the user interface.
Btw: there are lots of coordinates not on Q2(earth) in wikidata (and
some coordinates without any globe)

Lukas

Am Di 19.08.2014 20:43, schrieb Lydia Pintscher:
> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Lukas Benedix
>  wrote:
>> Is there a mockup of the interface for this particular task?
>>
>> Can't find any for editing tasks.
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:UI_redesign_input The second
> mock-up shows the header in expanded mode.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>


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Re: [Wikidata-l] Come to present Wikidata in Finland!

[John Mark Vandenberg]

Hi Susanna,

I'm still interested; a bit later in the year would be ideal for me.

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Susanna Ånäs  wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> After all this trouble it seems there is a possibility that no-one more
> savvy than us locals are coming to the Avoin Suomi 2014 fair. This is
> unfortunate bad logistics. But I would be happy to continue the thought of a
> presentation together with you.
>
> The workshop would be postponed as well, but cancelling the presentation on
> site at this occasion will let us realize it at a later event. Would you be
> interested?
>
> I contacted Stryn. He would not be able to attend either, but he would join
> a separate event at a different time.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Susanna
>
>
> 2014-08-02 18:35 GMT+03:00 John Mark Vandenberg :
>
>> Sounds very interesting.  I could cover my own costs, but the distance
>> and time is a killer at short notice.  When do you need to know by?
>>
>> If nothing else, I would be very happy to help prepare the presentation.
>>
>> There appear to be two Finnish-specific properties,
>>
>>
>> https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?search=property%3Afinnish&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go
>>
>> One of which is the Jufo ID, which is their research publication
>> tracking system used for their national research evaluation program,
>> and it would be nice to see them embrace open data for that exercise.
>>
>> I havent populated that property yet, but it would be easy to do.
>> Once that is done, comparisons can be made to the research evaluation
>> systems in other countries that also have data in Wikidata, such as
>> Norway and Australia.
>>
>> I have CC'd user:Stryn and User:Fnielsen
>> (http://www.imm.dtu.dk/~faan/), and onwiki notified User:Stryn just in
>> case.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Susanna Ånäs 
>> wrote:
>> > Wikimedia Finland calls for a Wikidata developer/advocate to present
>> > Wikidata at Avoin Suomi 2014 fair http://avoinsuomi2014.fi/ September
>> > 15–16.
>> > The event is organized by the Prime Minister's Office in collaboration
>> > with
>> > several public sector actors and open knowledge organizations.
>> >
>> > Wikimedia Finland has a booth, and will present projects in GLAM and
>> > education, and the Wikimedia sister projects with focus on Wikidata.
>> >
>> > To take advantage of the presence of the skilled wikidatan, we plan to
>> > arrange a Wikidata hands-on workshop before or after the event.
>> >
>> > The closer you are to Finland the better, but Finnish language is not a
>> > requirement.
>> >
>> > Please contact susanna.a...@wikimedia.fi if you are interested. You may
>> > forward this to a person you know might be interested.
>> >
>> > Looking forward to talking with you!
>> >
>> > Susanna
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Susanna Ånäs Käyttäjä:Susannaanas
>> > Wikimedia Suomi – Wikimaps – GLAM
>> > @WMFinland / Facebook / Liity jäseneksi!
>> >
>> > ___
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Come to present Wikidata in Finland!

[Susanna Ånäs]

Hi John,

After all this trouble it seems there is a possibility that no-one more
savvy than us locals are coming to the Avoin Suomi 2014 fair. This is
unfortunate bad logistics. But I would be happy to continue the thought of
a presentation together with you.

The workshop would be postponed as well, but cancelling the presentation on
site at this occasion will let us realize it at a later event. Would you be
interested?

I contacted Stryn. He would not be able to attend either, but he would join
a separate event at a different time.

Best regards,

Susanna


2014-08-02 18:35 GMT+03:00 John Mark Vandenberg :

> Sounds very interesting.  I could cover my own costs, but the distance
> and time is a killer at short notice.  When do you need to know by?
>
> If nothing else, I would be very happy to help prepare the presentation.
>
> There appear to be two Finnish-specific properties,
>
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?search=property%3Afinnish&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go
>
> One of which is the Jufo ID, which is their research publication
> tracking system used for their national research evaluation program,
> and it would be nice to see them embrace open data for that exercise.
>
> I havent populated that property yet, but it would be easy to do.
> Once that is done, comparisons can be made to the research evaluation
> systems in other countries that also have data in Wikidata, such as
> Norway and Australia.
>
> I have CC'd user:Stryn and User:Fnielsen
> (http://www.imm.dtu.dk/~faan/), and onwiki notified User:Stryn just in
> case.
>
> On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Susanna Ånäs 
> wrote:
> > Wikimedia Finland calls for a Wikidata developer/advocate to present
> > Wikidata at Avoin Suomi 2014 fair http://avoinsuomi2014.fi/ September
> 15–16.
> > The event is organized by the Prime Minister's Office in collaboration
> with
> > several public sector actors and open knowledge organizations.
> >
> > Wikimedia Finland has a booth, and will present projects in GLAM and
> > education, and the Wikimedia sister projects with focus on Wikidata.
> >
> > To take advantage of the presence of the skilled wikidatan, we plan to
> > arrange a Wikidata hands-on workshop before or after the event.
> >
> > The closer you are to Finland the better, but Finnish language is not a
> > requirement.
> >
> > Please contact susanna.a...@wikimedia.fi if you are interested. You may
> > forward this to a person you know might be interested.
> >
> > Looking forward to talking with you!
> >
> > Susanna
> >
> >
> > --
> > Susanna Ånäs Käyttäjä:Susannaanas
> > Wikimedia Suomi – Wikimaps – GLAM
> > @WMFinland / Facebook / Liity jäseneksi!
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Wikidata-l] [Wikidata-tech] Breaking serialization change!

[Markus Krötzsch]

Another related question: what are the new content model strings used 
for the new format?


Cheers,

Markus

On 15.08.2014 20:04, Lydia Pintscher wrote:

Hey folks :)

Are you a tool author relying on dumps or Special:Export or use Lua on
Wikidata to access data in items? Please read on.
The JSON format returned by the API and what we use to store the data
internally has been different for a long time. This has been a
headache as people had to deal with two different JSON serializations.
We've fixed this now to only use one. This means the format you get in
the XML dumps, via Special:Export and when accessing the raw item page
content via Lua will change to be the same as what you get from the
API. We plan to deploy this change on August 26th.

This is one of the remaining blockers for statements on properties and
further progress on Commons support.

I'm sorry for the disruption. If you need help with adapting your
tools please let me know.


Cheers
Lydia




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Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons Wikibase

[Markus Krötzsch]

On 20.08.2014 10:46, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

Hoi,
When I add statements with "is a list of", the item I refer to works as
a base. It and all subsequent statements are required to be the result
of the result that is generated by WDQ in the background. The results
are shown automatically from within Reasonator.

The hack is in having Reasonator interpret the limited expressions
available. Then again, calling Reasonator a hack is a disservice to the
real application it provides.


Not sure what you refer to, but there might be a misunderstanding here. 
I was using the word "hack" in my email to refer to the proposal of 
using additional qualifiers to express queries in Wikidata. That was a 
new proposal in the email I replied to and had nothing to do with 
Reasonator or your annotations.


Markus

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Re: [Wikidata-l] A note on "instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page"

[Markus Krötzsch]

Hi Gerard,

Actually I was not referring to Wikidata descriptions in this thread. 
That seems to be a simple problem to fix if one finds a way to fix the 
classification. The bigger problem here is that the data is inconsistent 
(claiming that VW Polo is a page that is produced by Volkswagen).


Markus

On 20.08.2014 12:31, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

Hoi,
Markus, I am not surprised at all that such problems exist. The problem
is inherent in the descriptions. They are added and made sense at that
time. Now they do no longer apply because of statements made that ensure
it is no longer a disambiguation page. These descriptions are not seen.
You only see the descriptions in *YOUR* language.

The first obvious remedial task would be to remove all the texts in all
languages where the "instance of" is different from "Wikimedia
disambiguation page".

I am really happy that you notice the fragility of descriptions.
Automated descriptions do not suffer from this..

Related to what you have noticed are the list articles. There is a
policy where list articles are turned into singular and then describe
whatever they are were list of. They are no longer list articles and the
texts indicating they are is wrong as well.
Thanks,
GerardM


On 20 August 2014 11:40, Markus Krötzsch mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org>> wrote:

Hi all,

We have a lot of statements saying that something is an instance of
a "Wikipedia disambiguation page" (Q4167410). Unfortunately, this
kind of information says something about a particular Wikipedia
article in a particular language, and often is not true for other
languages. Moreover, even if there is a language where the according
article is marked as disambiguation page, it is still common that
the page gives a description of a real item.

Example (bad use of instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page)
==__==__==

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/__Q247819
 (VW Polo)

Enwiki (like many languages) has a normal article here that is not a
disambiguation page. It says "The Volkswagen Polo is a supermini car
produced by the German manufacturer Volkswagen". That's very
different from "The Volkswagen Polo is a disambiguation page."

Even Wikipedias where the VW-Polo article is marked as
disambiguation page do not claim that the thing they are talking
about is the disambiguation page. For instance, frwiki has the
article in Catégorie:Homonymie, yet it says:

"Volkswagen Polo est une automobile, de la gamme des polyvalentes,
de la marque allemande Volkswagen"

Again, it is not said that VW Polo is a disambiguation page, even
though the page (not the car) is marked as one.


Proper use of instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page
==__=

Now there are also many proper disambiguation pages. They do not
have a joint concept, other than the ambiguous title in a particular
language.

Examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Jaguar_(disambiguation)

and, entertainingly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Disambiguation_(__disambiguation)


An item that is "instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page":

* should not have sitelinks to pages that are not disambiguation
pages (an item can either be about a Wikipedia page or about a car,
but these should be kept separate),
* should always use the exact page title as the label (because this
is the real label of the page; the page "Jaguar (disambiguation)" is
not called "Jaguar" by anybody),
* should hardly have any statements at all, since there is almost
nothing that you can truthfully say about a group of pages in many
different languages, and since we want to avoid project-specific
statements (that's one reason we have badges as part of site links).

Whether disambiguation pages should have more than a single sitelink
at all is another question. In my view, if we are talking about a
"page", it is not the same page in French as it is in English (most
properties that pages could naturally have, such as authors,
language, creation date, etc. apply to a single page only). However,
I can see that it is practical to group such pages nonetheless.


Conclusion
==

It would be nice if somebody could analyse this problem in more
detail (how many of our "disambiguation page" items have statements
that are obviously not about a page but about a car make, animal,
etc.). We might need some manual effort to clean this up (basically,
a kind of un-merging game).

The immediate conclusion is that we need to be much more careful
importing this type of information from one Wi

Re: [Wikidata-l] A note on "instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page"

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Markus, I am not surprised at all that such problems exist. The problem is
inherent in the descriptions. They are added and made sense at that time.
Now they do no longer apply because of statements made that ensure it is no
longer a disambiguation page. These descriptions are not seen. You only see
the descriptions in *YOUR* language.

The first obvious remedial task would be to remove all the texts in all
languages where the "instance of" is different from "Wikimedia
disambiguation page".

I am really happy that you notice the fragility of descriptions. Automated
descriptions do not suffer from this..

Related to what you have noticed are the list articles. There is a policy
where list articles are turned into singular and then describe whatever
they are were list of. They are no longer list articles and the texts
indicating they are is wrong as well.
Thanks,
   GerardM


On 20 August 2014 11:40, Markus Krötzsch 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We have a lot of statements saying that something is an instance of a
> "Wikipedia disambiguation page" (Q4167410). Unfortunately, this kind of
> information says something about a particular Wikipedia article in a
> particular language, and often is not true for other languages. Moreover,
> even if there is a language where the according article is marked as
> disambiguation page, it is still common that the page gives a description
> of a real item.
>
> Example (bad use of instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page)
> ==
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q247819 (VW Polo)
>
> Enwiki (like many languages) has a normal article here that is not a
> disambiguation page. It says "The Volkswagen Polo is a supermini car
> produced by the German manufacturer Volkswagen". That's very different from
> "The Volkswagen Polo is a disambiguation page."
>
> Even Wikipedias where the VW-Polo article is marked as disambiguation page
> do not claim that the thing they are talking about is the disambiguation
> page. For instance, frwiki has the article in Catégorie:Homonymie, yet it
> says:
>
> "Volkswagen Polo est une automobile, de la gamme des polyvalentes, de la
> marque allemande Volkswagen"
>
> Again, it is not said that VW Polo is a disambiguation page, even though
> the page (not the car) is marked as one.
>
>
> Proper use of instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page
> ===
>
> Now there are also many proper disambiguation pages. They do not have a
> joint concept, other than the ambiguous title in a particular language.
>
> Examples:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(disambiguation)
> and, entertainingly:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disambiguation_(disambiguation)
>
> An item that is "instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page":
>
> * should not have sitelinks to pages that are not disambiguation pages (an
> item can either be about a Wikipedia page or about a car, but these should
> be kept separate),
> * should always use the exact page title as the label (because this is the
> real label of the page; the page "Jaguar (disambiguation)" is not called
> "Jaguar" by anybody),
> * should hardly have any statements at all, since there is almost nothing
> that you can truthfully say about a group of pages in many different
> languages, and since we want to avoid project-specific statements (that's
> one reason we have badges as part of site links).
>
> Whether disambiguation pages should have more than a single sitelink at
> all is another question. In my view, if we are talking about a "page", it
> is not the same page in French as it is in English (most properties that
> pages could naturally have, such as authors, language, creation date, etc.
> apply to a single page only). However, I can see that it is practical to
> group such pages nonetheless.
>
>
> Conclusion
> ==
>
> It would be nice if somebody could analyse this problem in more detail
> (how many of our "disambiguation page" items have statements that are
> obviously not about a page but about a car make, animal, etc.). We might
> need some manual effort to clean this up (basically, a kind of un-merging
> game).
>
> The immediate conclusion is that we need to be much more careful importing
> this type of information from one Wikipedia, since it is (by its very
> nature) not project-independent and not universal across languages.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
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[Wikidata-l] A note on "instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page"

[Markus Krötzsch]

Hi all,

We have a lot of statements saying that something is an instance of a 
"Wikipedia disambiguation page" (Q4167410). Unfortunately, this kind of 
information says something about a particular Wikipedia article in a 
particular language, and often is not true for other languages. 
Moreover, even if there is a language where the according article is 
marked as disambiguation page, it is still common that the page gives a 
description of a real item.


Example (bad use of instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page)
==

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q247819 (VW Polo)

Enwiki (like many languages) has a normal article here that is not a 
disambiguation page. It says "The Volkswagen Polo is a supermini car 
produced by the German manufacturer Volkswagen". That's very different 
from "The Volkswagen Polo is a disambiguation page."


Even Wikipedias where the VW-Polo article is marked as disambiguation 
page do not claim that the thing they are talking about is the 
disambiguation page. For instance, frwiki has the article in 
Catégorie:Homonymie, yet it says:


"Volkswagen Polo est une automobile, de la gamme des polyvalentes, de la 
marque allemande Volkswagen"


Again, it is not said that VW Polo is a disambiguation page, even though 
the page (not the car) is marked as one.



Proper use of instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page
===

Now there are also many proper disambiguation pages. They do not have a 
joint concept, other than the ambiguous title in a particular language.


Examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_(disambiguation)
and, entertainingly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disambiguation_(disambiguation)

An item that is "instance of:Wikipedia disambiguation page":

* should not have sitelinks to pages that are not disambiguation pages 
(an item can either be about a Wikipedia page or about a car, but these 
should be kept separate),
* should always use the exact page title as the label (because this is 
the real label of the page; the page "Jaguar (disambiguation)" is not 
called "Jaguar" by anybody),
* should hardly have any statements at all, since there is almost 
nothing that you can truthfully say about a group of pages in many 
different languages, and since we want to avoid project-specific 
statements (that's one reason we have badges as part of site links).


Whether disambiguation pages should have more than a single sitelink at 
all is another question. In my view, if we are talking about a "page", 
it is not the same page in French as it is in English (most properties 
that pages could naturally have, such as authors, language, creation 
date, etc. apply to a single page only). However, I can see that it is 
practical to group such pages nonetheless.



Conclusion
==

It would be nice if somebody could analyse this problem in more detail 
(how many of our "disambiguation page" items have statements that are 
obviously not about a page but about a car make, animal, etc.). We might 
need some manual effort to clean this up (basically, a kind of 
un-merging game).


The immediate conclusion is that we need to be much more careful 
importing this type of information from one Wikipedia, since it is (by 
its very nature) not project-independent and not universal across languages.


Cheers,

Markus

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons Wikibase

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
When I add statements with "is a list of", the item I refer to works as a
base. It and all subsequent statements are required to be the result of the
result that is generated by WDQ in the background. The results are shown
automatically from within Reasonator.

The hack is in having Reasonator interpret the limited expressions
available. Then again, calling Reasonator a hack is a disservice to the
real application it provides.

When I associate "is a list of" with categories in Wikidata, I express
reasonable expectations about what such a category should be about.
Presidents of the USA for instance are human and they hold or held the
office of President of the USA. This excludes Lex Luthor who is shown as
one in Reasonator because it does not make the human restriction.

With the results of the queries several things are expressed. Obviously the
results of the query but implicitly it shows "local" articles that are not
categorised.  It shows items that may or may not have an article elsewhere.
Yes, I use it when I add statements to items. It does show up in
Reasonator, in WDQ results, in automated descriptions and as interestingly
it will end up in the tool by Markus.

The application of the "is a list of" in categories is powerful. It gives
clues about a subset of data. When people have an application for it, they
concentrate on it. For instance there was a project on "members of the Lok
Sabha" and another on "members of the European parliament". The results of
the work done prevented a lot of duplicate items.. (who would expect for
the Romanian Wikipedia to be among the best in knowing about members of the
European parliament?)

When I talk about query, I talk about WDQ and its results. There is no
alternative at this time. Consider for instance the tool of Markus. It may
have already have a limited application for some but as long as it does not
update itself, it is not as illustrative as the WDQ by Magnus and it cannot
be used in the same way to improve Wikidata as is possible by many of the
tools by Magnus.

The official query happens when it does. When it does it will severely
stunted. This is because the "simple" queries will not have the power to
make them as illustrative as the queries used by the "is a list of".
Obviously I cannot wait until this situation is reversed. Having to convert
the existing queries is a pain but it is a nice pain.

As I explained at Wikimania, it is all in the application. When there is
one, it makes sense to have it. Without an application it is at best a nice
effort we can talk about. But hey, I have a limited amount of time so I
prefer to concentrate on application of functionality and data.
Thanks,
  GerardM


On 20 August 2014 09:36, Markus Krötzsch 
wrote:

> On 19.08.2014 22:23, David Cuenca wrote:
> ...
>
>
>> Actually I have one last question :)  At the moment Gerard is using "is
>> a list of:" on category item pages which has the effect of being
>> the inverse of "instance of". And then he adds further conditions as
>> qualifiers, see:
>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6562
>>
>> While this method of works for simple categories, more complex ones
>> would be hard to model using this method, like
>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8380098
>>
>> I was thinking of modelling it like:
>>  is a list of 
>>  has items used as value of
>> 
>>
>> Of course it would require to have a link between the item "discoverer"
>> and the property "discoverer", but would that make sense?
>>
>
> Well, it depends on what the intended use of "is a list of" is. First note
> that it is not the inverse of "instance of" (the inverse of a relation R
> holds between all pairs where R holds, just in the opposite direction; this
> is not what happens here). Rather, "is a list of" describes some class that
> all of the elements of a list are instances of.
>
> I don't think that it one should try to capture *exactly* what the items
> on the list are. Many lists are based on complicated criteria and it would
> be very hard to express them in a good way using statements. What you
> suggest above would be an ad hoc solution (a.k.a. hack) for a few cases;
> many other cases would need different features. Even if one would have a
> way to capture some lists exactly, one would need to document this very
> carefully in order for the information to be useful to others. In essence,
> one would specify a query language there. Since we already are working on
> queries for Wikidata, the better way to solve this in the future would be
> to refer to actual queries (as soon as they are expressive enough).
>
> Anyway, as I understand it, Gerard is adding these statements to help with
> the organisation of lists (and to give some more relevant statements to
> list items, e.g., to assist the auto description). Since we want to support
> automated list generation in the future (using query results on Wikipedia
> pages), it might be handy to have some overview of the lists (how many,
> about which topics,

Re: [Wikidata-l] Announce: WikiProject Structured Data for Commons

[Markus Krötzsch]

On 19.08.2014 16:13, Lydia Pintscher wrote:

On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 11:19 AM, David Cuenca  wrote:

Thanks for the stats, Gerard. Two thoughts:
- With so many items without description I wonder why we don't have the
automatic descriptions gadget enabled by default.


I am a bit worried about enabling this by default for everyone as a
gadget. We need the descriptions in a lot of places where people
search for items. The next big one will be Commons. But _a lot_ more
will come in the future. Think for example of tagging your blog post
on Wordpress with Wikidata concepts. You'll need the descriptions. If
we enable automatic descriptions on Wikidata now we will actively
discourage people from entering more descriptions. That would be bad
as 3rd parties then don't get the benefit of them.
I am also hesitant to build this into Wikibase directly as it'd need
quite some domain-knowledge for all I can tell at this point. That's
something we need to avoid.
Anyone got ideas how to get out of this?


It had been suggested recently on this list to store the 
autodescriptions in the data, e.g., using a robot. The question there 
was whether this would make future automated update too troublesome 
(since one would have to check if the description has been overwritten 
by a human in the meantime). I think this can be solved (see below). For 
thousands of non-described items this would be a large improvement.


An important point is that there are really two kinds of "descriptions" 
that we should keep separate, since they have two different purposes:


(1) to provide a clue for distinguishing items with the same label
(2) to give a human-readable, informative summary of the data

The descriptions that we want to have stored on Wikidata are there for 
the first purpose ("type-1 descriptions" :-). Their main virtue is to be 
as much to the point as possible, so you can read them quickly in a 
small dropdown menu etc. (short and accurate, but just enough 
information to clarify what we are talking about).


Descriptions of the second kind are a completely different issue. They 
should not be stored on Wikidata (or anywhere), since they will 
continuously evolve. The more data you have, the better your type-2 
description will get. For new kinds of data you will even have to extend 
the code that generates the texts. Also, these descriptions could be 
much longer, and indeed their "optimal" length would vary from 
application to application.


This is why I think that it is fairly safe to import (some) type-1 
descriptions without this reducing in any way the importance of type-2 
descriptions. Of course even type-1 descriptions will change over time 
(esp. for living persons or ongoing events), but most of them should be 
fairly stable (cities, species, many people, ...). Since we are only 
interested in a very concise description for this purpose, it might be 
possible to see if an item has enough data yet to create an "ultimate" 
description (in the sense that more data would not have an effect on the 
concise description anyway). Magnus will know more about this.


A simple, low-tech way of enabling future updates would be to store the 
list of imported descriptions somewhere so that future update robots can 
check if the description has been changed by someone in the meantime 
without having to consult the page history.


Cheers,

Markus



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Re: [Wikidata-l] new features deployed \o/

[Katie Filbert]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:05 AM, David Cuenca  wrote:
> > Lydia,
> > I have a question about pages in Wikidata connected to their items. In
> the
> > example you give:
> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q914807
> >
> > How can be the page linked? I guess I have to enter it in the section
> "Pages
> > on other sites linked to this item", but when I click "add", there is no
> > suggester. I tried "wikidata", "wikidatawiki", "data", but nothing
> happens.
>
> It's a caching issue apparently. Working on it :) If you enter
> testwikidata it works it seems.
>
> > By the way the Wikinews section appears as
> "",
> > but probably you are already aware of it.
>
> Yeah. Also a caching issue.
> Did I mention that caches and I are no longer friends? :P
>
>
Actually I found the problem in the settings. I fixed it one place but
missed another place.

At the earliest time I can deploy the fix, I will do so. (so, in a few
hours)

Cheers,
Katie


>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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-- 
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Wikidata Developer

Wikimedia Germany e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24, 10963 Berlin
Phone (030) 219 158 26-0

http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Germany - Society for the Promotion of free knowledge eV Entered
in the register of Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg under the number 23
855 as recognized as charitable by the Inland Revenue for corporations I
Berlin, tax number 27/681/51985.
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Re: [Wikidata-l] new features deployed \o/

[Lydia Pintscher]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:05 AM, David Cuenca  wrote:
> Lydia,
> I have a question about pages in Wikidata connected to their items. In the
> example you give:
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q914807
>
> How can be the page linked? I guess I have to enter it in the section "Pages
> on other sites linked to this item", but when I click "add", there is no
> suggester. I tried "wikidata", "wikidatawiki", "data", but nothing happens.

It's a caching issue apparently. Working on it :) If you enter
testwikidata it works it seems.

> By the way the Wikinews section appears as "",
> but probably you are already aware of it.

Yeah. Also a caching issue.
Did I mention that caches and I are no longer friends? :P


Cheers
Lydia

-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons Wikibase

[Markus Krötzsch]

On 19.08.2014 22:23, David Cuenca wrote:
...


Actually I have one last question :)  At the moment Gerard is using "is
a list of:" on category item pages which has the effect of being
the inverse of "instance of". And then he adds further conditions as
qualifiers, see:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6562

While this method of works for simple categories, more complex ones
would be hard to model using this method, like
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8380098

I was thinking of modelling it like:
 is a list of 
 has items used as value of


Of course it would require to have a link between the item "discoverer"
and the property "discoverer", but would that make sense?


Well, it depends on what the intended use of "is a list of" is. First 
note that it is not the inverse of "instance of" (the inverse of a 
relation R holds between all pairs where R holds, just in the opposite 
direction; this is not what happens here). Rather, "is a list of" 
describes some class that all of the elements of a list are instances of.


I don't think that it one should try to capture *exactly* what the items 
on the list are. Many lists are based on complicated criteria and it 
would be very hard to express them in a good way using statements. What 
you suggest above would be an ad hoc solution (a.k.a. hack) for a few 
cases; many other cases would need different features. Even if one would 
have a way to capture some lists exactly, one would need to document 
this very carefully in order for the information to be useful to others. 
In essence, one would specify a query language there. Since we already 
are working on queries for Wikidata, the better way to solve this in the 
future would be to refer to actual queries (as soon as they are 
expressive enough).


Anyway, as I understand it, Gerard is adding these statements to help 
with the organisation of lists (and to give some more relevant 
statements to list items, e.g., to assist the auto description). Since 
we want to support automated list generation in the future (using query 
results on Wikipedia pages), it might be handy to have some overview of 
the lists (how many, about which topics, etc.). But I am just guessing 
here -- maybe Gerard has other reasons too.


Cheers,

Markus


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Re: [Wikidata-l] new features deployed \o/

[David Cuenca]

Lydia,
I have a question about pages in Wikidata connected to their items. In the
example you give:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q914807

How can be the page linked? I guess I have to enter it in the section
"Pages on other sites linked to this item", but when I click "add", there
is no suggester. I tried "wikidata", "wikidatawiki", "data", but nothing
happens.

By the way the Wikinews section appears as "",
but probably you are already aware of it.

Thanks for the update!
Micru


On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Hey folks :)
>
> As announced last week we just deployed a number of new features. Those
> are:
>
> * Wikinews is now able to manage its sitelinks via Wikidata.
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikinews for
> questions/coordination/...
> * Wikidata is now also its own client. This means you can for example
> add a sitelink to Wikidata:Help to the item for all main help pages.
> You are able to make use of the data in items on other pages in
> Wikidata with Lua. (Arbitrary access has been enabled for Wikidata
> for this but when data in an item changes we will not be able to purge
> the page using the data yet.)
> * Sitelinks for projects with just one sitelink in the group (like
> Commons, Wikidata and in the future Meta for example) are now grouped
> together in one sitelink group.
> * Badges for good and featured articles can be stored on Wikidata
> right next to the sitelink. We have badges for featured and good
> articles. More can be added on request later. Thanks to Bene* and
> lazowik for this feature.
> * Redirects between items can be created. When two items are merged
> one of them can be turned into a redirect. This way our identifiers
> can be considered much more stable by 3rd parties for example. It also
> makes it unnecessary to delete duplicate items. This will reduce the
> workload of our admins considerably.
> * We have the new datatype monolingual text. This allows you to make
> statements with a string and an associated language.
>
> Known issues/limitations:
> * Redirects can so far only be created via the API
> * Arbitrary access on Wikidata to the data on Wikidata itself is only
> possible via Lua. The parser function still needs to be adapted.
> * Badges can not yet be shown on the Wikipedias etc. This will follow next
> week.
> * Diffs for badges changes have a link to a wrong target
> (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69758)
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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