Re: [Wikidata-l] [Spam] Re: Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
Hey :) On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote: > This is an important problem for Wikivoyage, where we do not keep pages for > separate monuments/sights but link to them from just one page of a city or > region. It would be great to be able to get some info from Wikidata not just > from the item corresponding the page one is at, but also to other pages, but > we were told that this is absolutely impossible. It is not absolutely impossible. It just needs to be implemented still. The tracking bug for that is https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47930 Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] [Spam] Re: Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
On 15.09.2014 20:40, Andrew Gray wrote:
Stupid question: would it be possible to write {{bio}} so that you
could use:
{{bio|Q12345678}}
and have the template pull out all the data for Q12345678 rather than
the linked page? If so that would seem to handle this particular
problem...
Andrew.
This is an important problem for Wikivoyage, where we do not keep pages
for separate monuments/sights but link to them from just one page of a
city or region. It would be great to be able to get some info from
Wikidata not just from the item corresponding the page one is at, but
also to other pages, but we were told that this is absolutely
impossible.
Cheers
Yaroslav
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Re: [Wikidata-l] [Spam] Re: Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
Stupid question: would it be possible to write {{bio}} so that you could use:
{{bio|Q12345678}}
and have the template pull out all the data for Q12345678 rather than
the linked page? If so that would seem to handle this particular
problem...
Andrew.
On 15 September 2014 17:05, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
> Permanently looming above us:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Filling_red_links_with_Wikidata
>
> Thomas Douillard, 06/09/2014 12:51:
>> One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non
>> existing articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata
>> interwiki list ?
>
> This is something I've been wondering about as well. Once {{bio}} on
> it.wiki fetches data from Wikidata (sorry, always the same example!), I
> could produce a decent stub just by pasting "{{bio}}" in a red link,
> (preview and) continue from there.
> Currently, however, I'd have to create a placeholder page, associate it
> to the Wikidata item, see what happened, continue from there; or pretend
> Wikidata doesn't exist, do useless manual business as usual, let a bot
> clean up the excess work.
> A middle way is to let me associate the page *while* creating it, so
> that I can preview.
>
> Nemo
>
> ___
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--
- Andrew Gray
andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
Citiranje Lydia Pintscher : > On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Thomas Douillard > wrote: > As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: > I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific > item and then another person comes and creates an article under the > same name but for a different topic we have an issue. This is a problem, though note that it can already happen if someone changes the topic of an existing article. > Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up > a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to > help with implementation. Some time ago I wrote http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Article_generation . If it is too confusing, I am here to clarify it. (Or if it is outright wrong, I am here as well :) ) ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Hi Lydia and Wikidatans, In what ways are Wikidatan developers planning for Creative Commons' databases for images, etc. - -http://search.creativecommons.org/ - - as well as for interoperability, - so, beyond WikiCommons' file-topic searching and storage images - especially if these CC databases already have structured data support (and perhaps vis-a-vis Maxime's Google TOS' question as well)? Thanks. Cheers, Scott On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Lydia Pintscher < lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote: > Hey :) > > Just an update from my side: We will keep non-Commons images in mind > when designing the system. The goal is to provide them with structured > data support as well. However initially we will concentrate on Commons > to get it to work there as we can have the highest impact there. > > > Cheers > Lydia > > -- > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher > Product Manager for Wikidata > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. > Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 > 10963 Berlin > www.wikimedia.de > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > -- - Scott MacLeod - Founder & President - 415 480 4577 - http://worlduniversityandschool.org - World University and School - like Wikipedia with MIT OpenCourseWare (not endorsed by MIT OCW) - incorporated as a nonprofit university and school in California, and is a U.S. 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt educational organization, both effective April 2010. World University and School is sending you this because of your interest in free, online, higher education. If you don't want to receive these, please reply with 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. Thank you. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
Permanently looming above us:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Filling_red_links_with_Wikidata
Thomas Douillard, 06/09/2014 12:51:
> One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non
> existing articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata
> interwiki list ?
This is something I've been wondering about as well. Once {{bio}} on
it.wiki fetches data from Wikidata (sorry, always the same example!), I
could produce a decent stub just by pasting "{{bio}}" in a red link,
(preview and) continue from there.
Currently, however, I'd have to create a placeholder page, associate it
to the Wikidata item, see what happened, continue from there; or pretend
Wikidata doesn't exist, do useless manual business as usual, let a bot
clean up the excess work.
A middle way is to let me associate the page *while* creating it, so
that I can preview.
Nemo
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
> > As I wrote above, using the label in a clever way should be enough. Another thing that can be done for links that do not exist on the translation, is to create the red link on the translated article and annotate it with the Wikidata Q-ID of the corresponding source link. So that when the article is finally created, all annotated red links can be turn into blue links. That will allow us to know which concept a given redlink is about and suggest a user to translate the article from a language in which the content is available. Pau On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Joe Filceolaire wrote: > I agree with Amir. > > Especially since we can use aliases to record possible alternative names > as well. > > Joe > On 15 Sep 2014 15:20, "Amir E. Aharoni" > wrote: > >> 2014-09-15 16:16 GMT+03:00 Lydia Pintscher > >: >> > As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: >> > I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific >> > item and then another person comes and creates an article under the >> > same name but for a different topic we have an issue. >> > >> > Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up >> > a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to >> > help with implementation. >> >> As I wrote above, using the label in a clever way should be enough. >> Creating a sitelink without a target article is not desirable. A translated >> label should be good enough as the basis for the name of the future article. >> >> I hope to integrate this as smoothly as possible into the >> ContentTranslation workflow Some Time Soon. >> >> -- >> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >> “We're living in pieces, >> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore >> >> >> ___ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> >> > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > -- Pau Giner Interaction Designer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
I agree with Amir. Especially since we can use aliases to record possible alternative names as well. Joe On 15 Sep 2014 15:20, "Amir E. Aharoni" wrote: > 2014-09-15 16:16 GMT+03:00 Lydia Pintscher : > > As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: > > I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific > > item and then another person comes and creates an article under the > > same name but for a different topic we have an issue. > > > > Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up > > a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to > > help with implementation. > > As I wrote above, using the label in a clever way should be enough. > Creating a sitelink without a target article is not desirable. A translated > label should be good enough as the basis for the name of the future article. > > I hope to integrate this as smoothly as possible into the > ContentTranslation workflow Some Time Soon. > > -- > Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי > http://aharoni.wordpress.com > “We're living in pieces, > I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore > > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
2014-09-15 16:16 GMT+03:00 Lydia Pintscher : > As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: > I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific > item and then another person comes and creates an article under the > same name but for a different topic we have an issue. > > Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up > a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to > help with implementation. As I wrote above, using the label in a clever way should be enough. Creating a sitelink without a target article is not desirable. A translated label should be good enough as the basis for the name of the future article. I hope to integrate this as smoothly as possible into the ContentTranslation workflow Some Time Soon. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] [Multimedia] Commons file-topic searching and storage (was Re: Commons Categories again)
On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Thomas Douillard wrote: > You should look at the dev team plans about the query engine. Queries will > be associated to a query item, and the results of the query will be cached > and maintained by the Wikibase software as the datas will be modified, if I > understand well. Yes. That is what we call "complex queries". The drawback of them (at least as they are designed right now) is that they are not instant. So we cannot use that for searching images on Commons as you will always want an instant result for a pretty much arbitrary search. This is an issue I've been thinking about for a while now and that we will definitely need to find an answer to. Discussions to have in the next weeks... Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Hey :) Just an update from my side: We will keep non-Commons images in mind when designing the system. The goal is to provide them with structured data support as well. However initially we will concentrate on Commons to get it to work there as we can have the highest impact there. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata / Wikipedia integration : redlinks and items
Hey Thomas :) On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Thomas Douillard wrote: > Hi all, I'm wondering about one usage Wikidata could be useful to Wikipedias > : Redlinks subject identification. > > Wikidata is good to identify subjects. Redlinks are used in Wikipedias to > identify subjects with currently no article. > > I post here because I think there is something to integrate this further, > but I don't know exactly what. > > A quick review about the current mechanisms we have to link items and/or > articles and subjects together : > * Wikidata interwikis. This works well. Links an item to articles and > articles titles > * articles redirect. This also works well, now we have a mechanism to link > article redirects with items, which is cool. > * There is currently templates like https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6519884 > or https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q15977575 Interesting mechanisms actually > * Wikidata items aliases : links a set of lexemes to an item > * Special:ItemByTitle and Special:GoToLinkedPage which are great, I don't > know how much they are used in practice though > > A little bit different but close > * items redirects > > This seems this covers a lot of the user usecases. Yet there is a lot of red > links in Wikipedia with actually no links to a Wikidata item. > > > My feeling is that what actually lacks in this picture is that the templates > are a bit hackish and that a deeper integration of item numbers with > redlinks would allow to go further and encourage users to make the links at > an earlier stage. What about a Wikisyntax to put an item number into a > Wikilink or a visual editor integration to suggest an entity every time a > user wants to enter a redlink ? > > This seems a low hanging fruit for WIkidata development and could make > Wikidata more real to Wikipedia communities. Especially compared to doing > this at the community level where this would require a big maintenance > effort and community knowledge about the templates to make the link beetween > the red label and the corresponding item concrete, especially if visual > editor make the information come to eveyone. > > One other solution could be to allow to associate items to yet non existing > articles to "reserve" them, allow redlinks into the Wikidata interwiki list > ? This is indeed an interesting topic and something I want to get done as well. From the development team's side this isn't something we can tackle at the moment but I'd definitely like to see this done and am happy to help with specs and all. As for simply allowing sitelinks to non-existing articles in Wikidata: I fear we can't easily do that. If someone adds the link to a specific item and then another person comes and creates an article under the same name but for a different topic we have an issue. Is anyone interested in thinking this through together and writing up a plan? Once we have that we can figure out if there is someone to help with implementation. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] breaking changes for gadgets
Hey Federico :) On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: > Lydia Pintscher, 31/08/2014 14:30: >> We are aware of the following gadgets that will need to be adapted but >> those might not be all: > > Adapted on wikidatawiki only, that is? I don't remember if those gadgets > are all wiki-specific (SimpleTransliterate in particular). Please notify > any other affected wiki if existing. These changes only affect wikidata.org. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] [Multimedia] Commons file-topic searching and storage (was Re: Commons Categories again)
Thanks for the link but I wanted some more specific answers :) There has already been discussions about data redundancies on this mailing list, the that I'm confident we can think as relevant in Wikidata are : * Class membership, as subclass of is a transitive property and instance of is defined using subclass of * inverse relations Is it of what we are talking about ? 2014-09-14 22:01 GMT+02:00 P. Blissenbach : > "Thomas Douillard" werites: > > > Which "norm" are we using, what should we denormalize ? According to > which rules ? > > We're talking aboun normalized databases vs. ones which aren't. See: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization and > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denormalization > > Purodha > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
