Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Scott MacLeod worlduniversityandsch...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Lydia and Wikidatans, In what ways are Wikidatan developers planning for Creative Commons' databases for images, etc. - -http://search.creativecommons.org/ - - as well as for interoperability, - so, beyond WikiCommons' file-topic searching and storage images - especially if these CC databases already have structured data support (and perhaps vis-a-vis Maxime's Google TOS' question as well)? Thanks. Hey Scott :) What kind of interaction/integration do you have in mind? Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Hi Lydia and Wikidatans, My questions about C.C. Wikidata integration / interaction have to do with Creative Commons' entities /resources, as examples of external sister projects. Are there any examples so far of Creative Commons' licensed databases that interact/integrate/interoperate with Wikidata and which might parallel or build on the ways in which Wikidata is exploring accessing WikiCommons, and interlingually especially? And what are other examples of Wikidata being used by external sister projects, and in each language? Where (what URLs) will such lists emerge? In thinking about the Wikidata/WikiCommons/Creative Commons' roadmap ahead, I'm curious what the possible scenarios are especially for using SemanticWiki / Wikidata in the Creative Commons' sphere, and in an expansive way, even for the creation, for example, of Creative Commons' related coding jobs in many/all 7,106 + languages, and interlingually (and vis-a-vis WUaS). What are Wikidata's nascent plans to support innovations in Creative Commons' structured data projects in the future, for example? In what ways too might metrics, such as Google Analytics, Watson Analytics or MediaWiki Analytics, for example, be anticipated innovatively roadmap-wise, and interlingually, and especially vis a vis SemanticWiki/Wikidata and CC databases? Thanks, Scott On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Scott MacLeod worlduniversityandsch...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Lydia and Wikidatans, In what ways are Wikidatan developers planning for Creative Commons' databases for images, etc. - -http://search.creativecommons.org/- - as well as for interoperability, - so, beyond WikiCommons' file-topic searching and storage images - especially if these CC databases already have structured data support (and perhaps vis-a-vis Maxime's Google TOS' question as well)? Thanks. Hey Scott :) What kind of interaction/integration do you have in mind? Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher -http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Hey :) Just an update from my side: We will keep non-Commons images in mind when designing the system. The goal is to provide them with structured data support as well. However initially we will concentrate on Commons to get it to work there as we can have the highest impact there. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Hi Lydia and Wikidatans, In what ways are Wikidatan developers planning for Creative Commons' databases for images, etc. - -http://search.creativecommons.org/ - - as well as for interoperability, - so, beyond WikiCommons' file-topic searching and storage images - especially if these CC databases already have structured data support (and perhaps vis-a-vis Maxime's Google TOS' question as well)? Thanks. Cheers, Scott On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de wrote: Hey :) Just an update from my side: We will keep non-Commons images in mind when designing the system. The goal is to provide them with structured data support as well. However initially we will concentrate on Commons to get it to work there as we can have the highest impact there. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l -- - Scott MacLeod - Founder President - 415 480 4577 - http://worlduniversityandschool.org - World University and School - like Wikipedia with MIT OpenCourseWare (not endorsed by MIT OCW) - incorporated as a nonprofit university and school in California, and is a U.S. 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt educational organization, both effective April 2010. World University and School is sending you this because of your interest in free, online, higher education. If you don't want to receive these, please reply with 'unsubscribe' in the subject line. Thank you. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Hoi, Incompatible how ? The fact that some wikis allow for licenses that Commons does not allow for does NOT make them incompatible. It means that they use licenses in addition to Commons.. Technically that is no big deal at all. Thanks, GerardM On 13 September 2014 23:40, P. Blissenbach pu...@web.de wrote: Just a word of caution about collecting all images in commons. A while ago, at least, some local wikis had images with license terms incompatible with commons and vice versa. I recall very simple logos of companies, and several types of fair use derivatives. If that is still so, we have an obstacle that may prevent us from both moving images, and even linking to them under some local laws. Technically, I agree with the idea quoted below. Purodha James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk wrote: What I suspect is more likely, and probably makes more sense, is to converge the images themselves to all live in one place. So if the same fair-use image was used on multiple fair-use wikis, it would only be stored once (though each fair-use wiki would retain it's own File page for it). Such a structure should also make transfers to Commons much easier -- compared to the copy-and-paste by bot at the moment, which loses all the file-page history and most of the upload history. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Problem is, when somebody translate article from en.wiki and copy all images, it will display even if they have incompatibile licence - and who will check it? And there would be many problems with some people which will not agree with deleting these images from articles. Soulition would be, if there will be some table of wikis which do not allow such images - and servers will not dispaly this images on these wikis. JAnD --- Ing. Jan Dudík projekce dopravních staveb tel. 777082195 2014-09-14 17:25 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com: Hoi, Incompatible how ? The fact that some wikis allow for licenses that Commons does not allow for does NOT make them incompatible. It means that they use licenses in addition to Commons.. Technically that is no big deal at all. Thanks, GerardM On 13 September 2014 23:40, P. Blissenbach pu...@web.de wrote: Just a word of caution about collecting all images in commons. A while ago, at least, some local wikis had images with license terms incompatible with commons and vice versa. I recall very simple logos of companies, and several types of fair use derivatives. If that is still so, we have an obstacle that may prevent us from both moving images, and even linking to them under some local laws. Technically, I agree with the idea quoted below. Purodha James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk wrote: What I suspect is more likely, and probably makes more sense, is to converge the images themselves to all live in one place. So if the same fair-use image was used on multiple fair-use wikis, it would only be stored once (though each fair-use wiki would retain it's own File page for it). Such a structure should also make transfers to Commons much easier -- compared to the copy-and-paste by bot at the moment, which loses all the file-page history and most of the upload history. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Except that the problem isn't incompatible licenses; its lack of licenses. Most pix uploaded to wikipedias have no license. They are there under fair use rationales which are specific to each use and to the laws which apply in countries using that language. These pix are not free to reuse. Each reuse needs a new fair use rationale to justify it. That is why I think we should limit commonsdata to files on commons, at least for now. Joe On 14 Sep 2014 17:19, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Why would it ? A wiki would have a list of permissible licenses. That has nothing to do with Commons and everything with standardising licenses so that there is only one for each license. Thanks, GerardM On 14 September 2014 17:55, Jan Dudík jan.du...@gmail.com wrote: Problem is, when somebody translate article from en.wiki and copy all images, it will display even if they have incompatibile licence - and who will check it? And there would be many problems with some people which will not agree with deleting these images from articles. Soulition would be, if there will be some table of wikis which do not allow such images - and servers will not dispaly this images on these wikis. JAnD --- Ing. Jan Dudík projekce dopravních staveb tel. 777082195 2014-09-14 17:25 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com: Hoi, Incompatible how ? The fact that some wikis allow for licenses that Commons does not allow for does NOT make them incompatible. It means that they use licenses in addition to Commons.. Technically that is no big deal at all. Thanks, GerardM On 13 September 2014 23:40, P. Blissenbach pu...@web.de wrote: Just a word of caution about collecting all images in commons. A while ago, at least, some local wikis had images with license terms incompatible with commons and vice versa. I recall very simple logos of companies, and several types of fair use derivatives. If that is still so, we have an obstacle that may prevent us from both moving images, and even linking to them under some local laws. Technically, I agree with the idea quoted below. Purodha James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk wrote: What I suspect is more likely, and probably makes more sense, is to converge the images themselves to all live in one place. So if the same fair-use image was used on multiple fair-use wikis, it would only be stored once (though each fair-use wiki would retain it's own File page for it). Such a structure should also make transfers to Commons much easier -- compared to the copy-and-paste by bot at the moment, which loses all the file-page history and most of the upload history. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Hoi, The consequence would be that we cannot deal with these files. We cannot even know what they are about, We cannot target them for replacement by freely licensed files. Having access to them, knowing about them is different from using them. Files with a fair use rationale are categorised by them being available for fair use reasons.. Marking them as such is not hard and it is not controversial. Making them unavailable for analysis is. Thanks, GerardM On 14 September 2014 20:21, Joe Filceolaire filceola...@gmail.com wrote: Except that the problem isn't incompatible licenses; its lack of licenses. Most pix uploaded to wikipedias have no license. They are there under fair use rationales which are specific to each use and to the laws which apply in countries using that language. These pix are not free to reuse. Each reuse needs a new fair use rationale to justify it. That is why I think we should limit commonsdata to files on commons, at least for now. Joe On 14 Sep 2014 17:19, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Why would it ? A wiki would have a list of permissible licenses. That has nothing to do with Commons and everything with standardising licenses so that there is only one for each license. Thanks, GerardM On 14 September 2014 17:55, Jan Dudík jan.du...@gmail.com wrote: Problem is, when somebody translate article from en.wiki and copy all images, it will display even if they have incompatibile licence - and who will check it? And there would be many problems with some people which will not agree with deleting these images from articles. Soulition would be, if there will be some table of wikis which do not allow such images - and servers will not dispaly this images on these wikis. JAnD --- Ing. Jan Dudík projekce dopravních staveb tel. 777082195 2014-09-14 17:25 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com: Hoi, Incompatible how ? The fact that some wikis allow for licenses that Commons does not allow for does NOT make them incompatible. It means that they use licenses in addition to Commons.. Technically that is no big deal at all. Thanks, GerardM On 13 September 2014 23:40, P. Blissenbach pu...@web.de wrote: Just a word of caution about collecting all images in commons. A while ago, at least, some local wikis had images with license terms incompatible with commons and vice versa. I recall very simple logos of companies, and several types of fair use derivatives. If that is still so, we have an obstacle that may prevent us from both moving images, and even linking to them under some local laws. Technically, I agree with the idea quoted below. Purodha James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk wrote: What I suspect is more likely, and probably makes more sense, is to converge the images themselves to all live in one place. So if the same fair-use image was used on multiple fair-use wikis, it would only be stored once (though each fair-use wiki would retain it's own File page for it). Such a structure should also make transfers to Commons much easier -- compared to the copy-and-paste by bot at the moment, which loses all the file-page history and most of the upload history. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Commons file-topic searching and storage
Yes. Just to be clear, if we did converge all the images to live in one place, I am not suggesting they would all be free, and I'm not suggesting they would all belong to Commons. Just that they would all physically live in the same integrated structure; but one that would still appear to the external browser to have different 'partitions', corresponding to the different language wikis, each with a different base url. (But inside the server all part of one integrated system, making it easy to move a file from a national partition to the Commons partition, or vice-versa -- *if* that was legally appropriate). -- James. On 13/09/2014 22:40, P. Blissenbach wrote: Just a word of caution about collecting all images in commons. A while ago, at least, some local wikis had images with license terms incompatible with commons and vice versa. I recall very simple logos of companies, and several types of fair use derivatives. If that is still so, we have an obstacle that may prevent us from both moving images, and even linking to them under some local laws. Technically, I agree with the idea quoted below. Purodha James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk wrote: What I suspect is more likely, and probably makes more sense, is to converge the images themselves to all live in one place. So if the same fair-use image was used on multiple fair-use wikis, it would only be stored once (though each fair-use wiki would retain it's own File page for it). Such a structure should also make transfers to Commons much easier -- compared to the copy-and-paste by bot at the moment, which loses all the file-page history and most of the upload history. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
