[WikiEN-l] Another reason why we need BLP reform soon
Here is another reason why we need BLP reform very soon: the ongoing edit war over Rick Warren: Revision history of Rick Warren: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rick_Warrenaction=history Talk Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rick_Warren AN/I threads: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Teledildonix314 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Manutdglory_-_another_issue_of__bad_editor_behavior_connected_with_the_Rick_Warren_article I was caught up in the edit war myself yesterday (New Year's Day) while on routine RC patrol using Huggle. I reverted two edits that appeared non-NPOV. After I reverted the edits, the user I warned was edit-warring. That user made sarcastic remarks toward me and others. Rick Warren's article was already semi-protected due to vandalism. What a way to begin 2009, eh? William King (Willking1979) ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Journal of Biblical Literature is also requiring a Wikipedia entry
http://ancienthebrewpoetry.typepad.com/ancient_hebrew_poetry/2009/01/new-guidelines-for-jbl-contributors-publish-in-wikipedia-or-perish.html Similar journals are apparently likely to do the same. So. When will this become standard? - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Journal of Biblical Literature is also requiring a Wikipedia entry
David, you want to read the entire blogpost ;-) I made this up, of course, but not entirely. A journal of molecular biology has revised its submission guidelines such that acceptance is conditional upon simultaneous wikification of the submitted research. Go here for a report and preliminary discussion. I wish it were true that JBL and similar journals had already followed suit. It hasn't happened – yet. Michael On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:04 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://ancienthebrewpoetry.typepad.com/ancient_hebrew_poetry/2009/01/new-guidelines-for-jbl-contributors-publish-in-wikipedia-or-perish.html Similar journals are apparently likely to do the same. So. When will this become standard? - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- Michael Bimmler mbimm...@gmail.com ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Journal of Biblical Literature is also requiring a Wikipedia entry
2009/1/2 Michael Bimmler mbimm...@gmail.com: I made this up, of course, but not entirely. A journal of molecular biology has revised its submission guidelines such that acceptance is conditional upon simultaneous wikification of the submitted research. Go here for a report and preliminary discussion. I wish it were true that JBL and similar journals had already followed suit. It hasn't happened – yet. *splat* HAVEN'T HAD FIRST COFFEE. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Journal of Biblical Literature is also requiring a Wikipedia entry
David Gerard wrote: http://ancienthebrewpoetry.typepad.com/ancient_hebrew_poetry/2009/01/new-guidelines-for-jbl-contributors-publish-in-wikipedia-or-perish.html Similar journals are apparently likely to do the same. So. When will this become standard? - d. I guess you missed the sentence: I made this up of course,[...] and pretty broad clues along the way... Yours, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Journal of Biblical Literature is also requiring a Wikipedia entry
Could as easily repose the question using http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/publish_in_wikipedia_or_perish.php as the reference point. Nathan ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Biography of Living persons
2009/1/2 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2009/1/2 Ian Woollard ian.wooll...@gmail.com: If I understand you correctly, you would be (theoretically) fine with me creating a wikipedia page of you and filling it with true information about you, including your social security number, bank account number, telephone number, mothers maiden name, address, entire sexual history, provided all of this can be said to be correct by a notable source and referenced correctly? You're resorting to hypothetical hyperbole. This does not convince. Actually, no, I'm being hypothetical, but not hyperbolic. My point is that there exists classes of information that are true, but are not suitable for inclusion in the wikipedia. Todd Mallens point was that there were no such classes of information possible, and I believe that I have shown this to be false. Indeed within the wikipedia these kinds of information are specifically only protected by the BLP policy. Todd seems to have been actually hyperbolic: These rights do not exist. I do not have a right to tell you that you may not talk about me or publish information about me, provided what you say is true. Truth or verifiability is not sufficient for the wikipedia. In our heart of hearts we know that, that's what undue weight is mostly about, that's what notability is about. We protect the wikipedia against distortions of information, it seems to me that BLP can be seen as a part of or an extension to undue weight as regards to an article on an individual. - d. -- -Ian Woollard We live in an imperfectly imperfect world. Life in a perfectly imperfect world would be much better. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Another reason why we need BLP reform soon
Here is another reason why we need BLP reform very soon: the ongoing edit war over Rick Warren: Revision history of Rick Warren: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rick_Warrenaction=history Talk Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rick_Warren AN/I threads: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Teledildonix314 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Manutdglory_-_another_issue_of__bad_editor_behavior_connected_with_the_Rick_Warren_article I was caught up in the edit war myself yesterday (New Year's Day) while on routine RC patrol using Huggle Two edits, i thought it was three and then edit warring begun? ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Another reason why we need BLP reform soon
Just had a closer look at the history of the article...the edit warring apparently started around Christmas, much earlier than I thought. As I mentioned I simply found out about this edit war yesterday (New Year's Day). William King (Willking1979) -- From: K. Peachey p858sn...@yahoo.com.au Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:34 AM To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Another reason why we need BLP reform soon Here is another reason why we need BLP reform very soon: the ongoing edit war over Rick Warren: Revision history of Rick Warren: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rick_Warrenaction=history Talk Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Rick_Warren AN/I threads: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Teledildonix314 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Manutdglory_-_another_issue_of__bad_editor_behavior_connected_with_the_Rick_Warren_article I was caught up in the edit war myself yesterday (New Year's Day) while on routine RC patrol using Huggle Two edits, i thought it was three and then edit warring begun? ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Biography of Living persons
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009, toddmallen wrote: Actually, I do see it as a false dichotomy. We're presenting it as rights against publication of verifiable, reliable, already-published material. These rights do not exist. I do not have a right to tell you that you may not talk about me or publish information about me, provided what you say is true. Having a right and doing what is right are not the same thing. How do we avoid neutrality violations? We follow, rather than second-guess, reliable sources. In every case, every time. That's what NPOV means. Imposing our own viewpoint, including They SHOULDN'T have published that!, is the very definition of a violation of NPOV. I'm going to bring up spoiler warnings again, because this is an abuse of NPOV, in the same way that saying we don't have a source which declares that that is a spoiler is an abuse of NOR or NPOV. All editorial decisions are viewpoints; NPOV doesn't apply to them. It's our viewpoint that a person is notable, or that a source is unreliable, or that it's wrong to publish something. We don't go around saying you can't call that non-notable! If you do you're imposing our viewpoint that it's non-notable!. The reason this abuse happens is that NPOV is supposed to take precedence over everything else and leaves no room for discretion. If it violates NPOV, you can't include it, period. This absolute nature makes it very inviting to win an argument by squeezing everything and anything into NPOV (or NOR) regardless of whether it really fits. I've seen this particular abuse enough times that we really ought to have something in the rules specifically to prevent it. Of course, there's no way to do that ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Biography of Living persons
On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Ian Woollard ian.wooll...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/1/2 toddmallen toddmal...@gmail.com: Actually, I do see it as a false dichotomy. We're presenting it as rights against publication of verifiable, reliable, already-published material. These rights do not exist. I do not have a right to tell you that you may not talk about me or publish information about me, provided what you say is true. If I understand you correctly, you would be (theoretically) fine with me creating a wikipedia page of you and filling it with true information about you, including your social security number, bank account number, telephone number, mothers maiden name, address, entire sexual history, provided all of this can be said to be correct by a notable source and referenced correctly? I'm assuming not, at least I hope not. But in practice then, legally and morally and by wiki policy and guidelines, these rights to demand that information be removed do exist for certain classes of information. So I think what we're really discussing here *which* kinds of personal information may be published in the wikipedia and under what circumstances. -- -Ian Woollard We live in an imperfectly imperfect world. Life in a perfectly imperfect world would be much better. The problem with this statement is that the fact that few of these things are known publicly and the inappropriateness of publishing them in Wikipedia are correlated. My telephone number is already on the internet where any idiot with ten seconds to spare can find it (http://www.411.ca) which also tells you my street address. The rest of these things simply aren't available, which is reflective of the fact that publishing them is seen as inappropriate - Cheers Brian ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] NOR contradicts NPOV
On Jan 1, 2009, at 6:28 PM, George Herbert wrote: Phil - can you be more specific about that policy? Where is it? on 1/2/09 12:18 PM, Phil Sandifer at snowspin...@gmail.com wrote: Sure - it's actually WP:NOR - specifically, the line that all statements from primary sources must be easily verifiable by someone without specialist knowledge. This poses a significant problem for articles on scholars and specialists, whose writings provide a crucial perspective that, by its nature, cannot be replaced. It's a problem for a large band of articles - academic topics really, by their nature, can't function well when crucial sources need to be summarized without use of specialist knowledge. Currently the discussion is proving how deeply pathological the anti- specialist bias is, with the suggestions being made, in all seriousness, that no sources that require specialist knowledge should be used, and that it is desirable to have people edit articles in areas they do not know anything about. This is stunning, Phil. Now perhaps you and other persons on this List can appreciate the growing stone wall that I, and many other editors, have been confronted with for a long time. Marc Riddell ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] NOR contradicts NPOV
2009/1/2 Marc Riddell michaeldavi...@comcast.net: on 1/2/09 12:18 PM, Phil Sandifer at snowspin...@gmail.com wrote: Currently the discussion is proving how deeply pathological the anti- specialist bias is, with the suggestions being made, in all seriousness, that no sources that require specialist knowledge should be used, and that it is desirable to have people edit articles in areas they do not know anything about. This is stunning, Phil. Now perhaps you and other persons on this List can appreciate the growing stone wall that I, and many other editors, have been confronted with for a long time. See, it's nothing we didn't appreciate already. However, this list is a place for more general discussion, not where any binding decisions are made. The trouble with anyone can edit is that anyone can edit. And that you can't get away from idiocy. Suffering fools is in fact required. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Biography of Living persons
In a message dated 1/2/2009 5:43:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, ian.wooll...@gmail.com writes: including your social security number, bank account number, telephone number, mothers maiden name, address, entire sexual history, provided all of this can be said to be correct by a notable source and referenced correctly? You are being silly. No one knows Todd's entire sexual history including himself. ** New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026) ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania official announcement
For those who may not have seen this on the foundation-l or wikimania-l lists... here's the official dates for this summer's Wikimania :) Stay tuned for the call for papers and calls for volunteers. Want to help? Send a message to the Wikimania-l list. -- phoebe -- Forwarded message -- From: Patricio Lorente patricio.lore...@gmail.com Date: Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 10:13 AM Subject: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania official announcement To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org Dear all, Wikimedia Argentina, in collaboration with the Wikimedia Foundation, is pleased to announce that Wikimania 2009 will take place in Buenos Aires on August 26th, 27th and 28th. We invite the worldwide Wikimedia and free-knowledge community to attend to the event in which we will be discussing the present and future of our projects, other wikis, open-source software and free content. The conference will run for 3 days, with an optional welcome dinner on August 25th, and the special closing Wikimania party on Augusts 28th. Besides the exciting conferences, we are planning a set of activities for those who also want to enjoy Buenos Aires renowned nightlife. So don't forget to polish your shoes to dance tango and reading your eyes for a lot of sightseeing! We will be opening the call for speakers and scholarship applications during the following weeks, and the assistance registration in March. News about the event will be published in the Wikimania 2009 web site [wikimania2009.wikimedia.org] See you in Buenos Aires! On behalf of the organizing team, Patricio Lorente -- Patricio Lorente Mensajería Instantánea: patricio_lore...@jabber.org Blog: http://www.patriciolorente.com.ar ___ Wikimania-l mailing list wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
