Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments

[wjhonson]

I think I like "Comment on this page" at the bottom, but I'm hesitant 
to endorse that creating a section on the discussion (Talk) page.  I 
have a reason for my hesitation.

Sometimes readers comments on say "Patty Hearst" might be something 
like "Oh I remember when this occurred, I was in the seventh grade and 
had to do a report on her..."

Now something like that is an interesting way for casual readers to 
spout off, but on a patrolled-article, comments of that sort get 
routinely purged as they don't really help us to improve the article.  
As a casual reader on OPB (other people's blogs) I get annoyed if my 
comment gets wiped or never appears.

I wouldn't be adverse to moderated comments so we don't get "lick my 
ass!" and things like that.

At any rate, anyone want to bring this to the general wiki community 
somewhere and gauge the reaction?

Will



-Original Message-
From: Steve Bennett 
To: English Wikipedia 
Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 6:58 pm
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments




On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors
> working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers
> to spout forth. Would be good.

Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the
horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to
comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at
the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it),
then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New
section".

Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page
marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the
discussion page.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments

[Steve Bennett]

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors
> working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers
> to spout forth. Would be good.

Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the
horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to
comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at
the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it),
then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New
section".

Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page
marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the
discussion page.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments

[Emily Monroe]

> I notice the button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public  
> comment"; confusing!

Maybe what they mean is "Make a comment, generic member of the public."

Emily
On Sep 2, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Luna wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM,  wrote:
>
>> I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google   
>> search.
>> Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover   
>> it it
>> says "Comment".  So I tried it.
>>
>
> In the Google search settings page, I followed a "learn more" link  
> about
> SearchWiki, which took me here:
> http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=115764
>
> Looks like any comments/promotions/rankings you make are stored for  
> your own
> use -- the documentation on the help page seems to suggest that this
> information is private (in the sense that it's only viewed by you on  
> your
> own searches, if not necessarily as a matter of policy), but I  
> notice the
> button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public comment";  
> confusing!
>
> -Luna
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments

[Luna]

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM,  wrote:

> I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google  search.
> Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover  it it
> says "Comment".  So I tried it.
>

In the Google search settings page, I followed a "learn more" link about
SearchWiki, which took me here:
http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=115764

Looks like any comments/promotions/rankings you make are stored for your own
use -- the documentation on the help page seems to suggest that this
information is private (in the sense that it's only viewed by you on your
own searches, if not necessarily as a matter of policy), but I notice the
button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public comment"; confusing!

-Luna
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Re: [WikiEN-l] PR firm accused of whitewashing Wikipedia article on Maldives

[David Goodman]

The material that was removed seems to have been in need of sourcing
and rewriting to a NPOV (whatever the truth of the matter may be). The
present article says very little of any sort, has over-emphasis  on
two riots, and skips the period from 2004 to 2008,  The other articles
on these islands also seem to be in need of  very considerable
attention.

Frankly, what the  PR firm did is not really worse than some other
editors  at those articles


David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG



On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Keith Old wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Isabell Long  wrote:
>
>> 2009/9/2 Keith Old :
>> > (More in article)
>>
>> I think you forgot the link to the article.  ;)
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Isabell Long.  
>> [[User:Isabell121]] on all public Wikimedia projects.
>> Freenode Community Co-Ordinator - issyl0 on irc.freenode.net
>> PGP Key ID: 0xB6CA6840
>>
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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>
> Isabell,
>
> So I did.
>
> http://www.minivannews.com/news_detail.php?id=7202
>
> Regards
>
>
> Keith
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Re: [WikiEN-l] PR firm accused of whitewashing Wikipedia article on Maldives

[Fred Bauder]

Regardless of the truth, reliance on reliable published sources should
resolve most of these charges and countercharges. That is what we expect
of a public relations firm, both that they identify their purpose in
editing and cite appropriate sources.

Fred



> Minivan News, an independent article on the Maldives, has published
> accusations that a PR company whitewashed an article on the Maldives.
> "A data-mining tool called WikiScanner 
> has
> purportedly revealed PR firm Hill & Knowlton deleted a number of
> statements
> critical of the former government while they were employed by
> ex-President
> Maumoon Abdul Gayoom.
>
> According to the online tool, edits on the Wikipedia entry, *Politics of
> the
> Maldives *,
> included
> the removal of the
> following*passage
> *:
>
> “President Gayoom has systematically suppressed any and all political
> activity in the Maldives. His use of election rigging and imprisonment of
> political activists have all ensured that he went unchallenged for over
> 26
> years in office.
>
> “President Gayoom routinely uses torture, propaganda, and censorship as a
> means to cling on to political power.
>
> “Independent news media is non-existent. The three running dailies are
> controlled by cabinet ministers of President Gayoom.”
>
> The company further moderated language on the absence of political
> parties
> in the Maldives, writing instead: “The Maldivian political system was
> based
> around the election of individuals, rather than the more common system of
> elections according to party platform.”
> (...)
>
> Critics of the former regime allege Hill & Knowlton was hired by
> ex-President Gayoom’s government to help him improve the country’s image
> following growing civil unrest and allegations of human rights abuses.
>
> But speaking to Minivan News today, Mohamed Hussein Shareef (Mundhu),
> spokesperson for Gayoom, said the company was recruited in early 2004,
> not
> to whitewash the government’s activities but to teach officials how to
> interface with the international media and develop a communications
> strategy.
>
> On the changes made to Wikipedia, he said he did not believe them to be
> illegitimate due to the questionable authority of the online
> encyclopedia,
> which can be edited by anyone.
>
> “Wikipedia is a point of view or an opinion. The MDP (Maldivian
> Democratic
> Party) used to play with the Wikipedia page on Gayoom all the time,” he
> said. “Just as someone has the right to call our government a human
> rights
> abusing government, as a government we had the right to say, no we’re
> not.”
>
> (More in article)
>
> Regards
>
>
> Keith
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Re: [WikiEN-l] PR firm accused of whitewashing Wikipedia article on Maldives

[Keith Old]

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Isabell Long  wrote:

> 2009/9/2 Keith Old :
> > (More in article)
>
> I think you forgot the link to the article.  ;)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Isabell Long.  
> [[User:Isabell121]] on all public Wikimedia projects.
> Freenode Community Co-Ordinator - issyl0 on irc.freenode.net
> PGP Key ID: 0xB6CA6840
>
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Isabell,

So I did.

http://www.minivannews.com/news_detail.php?id=7202

Regards


Keith
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Re: [WikiEN-l] PR firm accused of whitewashing Wikipedia article on Maldives

[Isabell Long]

2009/9/2 Keith Old :
> (More in article)

I think you forgot the link to the article.  ;)

-- 
Regards,
Isabell Long.  
[[User:Isabell121]] on all public Wikimedia projects.
Freenode Community Co-Ordinator - issyl0 on irc.freenode.net
PGP Key ID: 0xB6CA6840

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[WikiEN-l] PR firm accused of whitewashing Wikipedia article on Maldives

[Keith Old]

Minivan News, an independent article on the Maldives, has published
accusations that a PR company whitewashed an article on the Maldives.
"A data-mining tool called WikiScanner  has
purportedly revealed PR firm Hill & Knowlton deleted a number of statements
critical of the former government while they were employed by ex-President
Maumoon Abdul Gayoom.

According to the online tool, edits on the Wikipedia entry, *Politics of the
Maldives *, included
the removal of the
following*passage
*:

“President Gayoom has systematically suppressed any and all political
activity in the Maldives. His use of election rigging and imprisonment of
political activists have all ensured that he went unchallenged for over 26
years in office.

“President Gayoom routinely uses torture, propaganda, and censorship as a
means to cling on to political power.

“Independent news media is non-existent. The three running dailies are
controlled by cabinet ministers of President Gayoom.”

The company further moderated language on the absence of political parties
in the Maldives, writing instead: “The Maldivian political system was based
around the election of individuals, rather than the more common system of
elections according to party platform.”
(...)

Critics of the former regime allege Hill & Knowlton was hired by
ex-President Gayoom’s government to help him improve the country’s image
following growing civil unrest and allegations of human rights abuses.

But speaking to Minivan News today, Mohamed Hussein Shareef (Mundhu),
spokesperson for Gayoom, said the company was recruited in early 2004, not
to whitewash the government’s activities but to teach officials how to
interface with the international media and develop a communications
strategy.

On the changes made to Wikipedia, he said he did not believe them to be
illegitimate due to the questionable authority of the online encyclopedia,
which can be edited by anyone.

“Wikipedia is a point of view or an opinion. The MDP (Maldivian Democratic
Party) used to play with the Wikipedia page on Gayoom all the time,” he
said. “Just as someone has the right to call our government a human rights
abusing government, as a government we had the right to say, no we’re not.”

(More in article)

Regards


Keith
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments

[David Gerard]

2009/9/2  :

> To make this thread on-topic, I wonder if there would be any  advantage is
> allowing comments, separate from Talk Page comments, on our  articles?
> I notice that many casual readers will leave "comments" which you  can
> generally spot as they are not-tagged-with-a-sig and generally left at the  
> top
> of the Talk page without regard for headers and so on.
> I just wonder if a more free-form "comment" section would encourage  more
> casual readers to become casual writers.


Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors
working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers
to spout forth. Would be good.


- d.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments

[Nathan]

Nope, no comments shown. If you click on the "See all notes for this
SearchWiki" button below the results, it says no public notes have
been made for the search results for ["arsenic and old lace" youtube].

What's a SearchWiki?

Nathan

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments

[WJhonson]

I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google  search.  
Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover  it it 
says "Comment".  So I tried it.
 
Would someone else try this Google search
"arsenic and old lace" youtube
 
Just like that with the quotes and all.  On the first few hits you  should 
see a result

_YouTube - Arsenic  And Old Lace 1/15 (1944)_ 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6YzAfyIeAA) 
 
Would you see if you can see a comment I left there?
I'm curious how this works.
 
To make this thread on-topic, I wonder if there would be any  advantage is 
allowing comments, separate from Talk Page comments, on our  articles?
I notice that many casual readers will leave "comments" which you  can 
generally spot as they are not-tagged-with-a-sig and generally left at the  top 
of the Talk page without regard for headers and so on.
 
I just wonder if a more free-form "comment" section would encourage  more 
casual readers to become casual writers.
 
Will Johnson
 
P.S. The only reason I picked this particular movie was because I  was 
casually looking for more movies to add to my
_Click  here to see the entire list of Peter Lorre Movies on YouTube_ 
(http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/peter-lorre-movies-on-youtube/4hmquk6fx4gu/
299) 
and
_Click  here to see the entire list of Cary Grant Movies on YouTube_ 
(http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/cary-grant-movies-on-youtube/4hmquk6fx4gu/18
8) 
 
Although obviously people are *watching* my nightly selections,  they don't 
seem to be adding any comments ;)
Maybe I'm perfect after all!
 
 
 

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Suggestion on how referencing system could be improved

[Gwern Branwen]

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Thomas Larsen wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The current .. system produces nice
> references, but it is flawed--all the text contained in a given
> reference appears in the text that the reference is linked from. For
> example:
>
>  It was a sunny day on WednesdayDavid Smith. ''History of Wednesdays.''
>  History Magazine, 2019.. The next day, Thursday, was cloudy.
>
>  == References and notes ==
>
>  
>
> (That's a very simple example, too. References start to become a lot
> larger once they start to include other information and/or are
> produced via a template.)
>
> Once way I could conceive of correcting the problem is to have a
> reference tag that provides only a _link_ to the note via a label and
> another type of reference tag that actually _defines_ and _displays_
> the note. For example:
>
>  It was a sunny day on Wednesday. The next day, Thursday,
>  was cloudy.
>
>  == References and notes ==
>
>  David Smith. ''History of Wednesdays.'' History
>  Magazine, 2019.
>
> This makes the raw wikitext easier to read, since the text of the
> actual reference is in the _references_ section instead of in the
> page's primary content.
>
> I think this could work ...
>
> --Thomas Larsen

If I may make a suggestion? That syntax is kind of clunky - maybe we
could have a simpler syntax, something like '{{ref|foo}}' &
'{{note|foo}: text'...

-- 
gwern

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