[WikiEN-l] Flagged Protection trial page

2010-05-13 Thread Rob Lanphier
Hi everyone,

In William's update, he wrote:

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:25 PM, William Pietri wrote:

> Also upcoming is [...]some work with the
> community to figure out the remaining details of the community side of
> the trial (keep an eye on RobLa's activity there)



More on that.  If you haven't kept a watch on the following page, and you're
really interested in what were planning on, I'd suggest you put this one in
your watchlist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Flagged_protection_and_patrolled_revisions/Trial

This past week, I've updated the sections on "Reviewing" and created a new
"Initial article count limits" section, as well as some shuffling and
trimming.   We want to make sure that what we have passes muster from a
simplicity standpoint, so you'll notice that what's there is greatly
simplified from some of the other proposals that have been floated.

The idea here is to make sure we have a plan ready to go if the trial were
ready to start tomorrow.   That's not to say that the trial *will* start
tomorrow, but we're getting close enough to being ready that we need to lock
these things down, because there are very few things that require code
changes that we'll be willing to consider at this point.

If you have any comments/suggestions/complaints/etc about the policy, please
reply here, or put them on the talk page for the trial.

Thanks!
Rob
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[WikiEN-l] Flagged Protection update for May 13

2010-05-13 Thread William Pietri
As requested, here's the weekly Flagged Protection update.


As I mentioned last week, we are starting pre-rollout activities while 
we finish up the last bits of development. Now that the successful 
launch of the new enwiki UI is out of the way, we will be getting 
together with Rob H. and the rest of the ops ninjas to discuss release 
dates.

Also upcoming is a final pass at the terms and text, some more fiddling 
with cross-browser CSS and JavaScript issues, some work with the 
community to figure out the remaining details of the community side of 
the trial (keep an eye on RobLa's activity there), and a call for the 
nice people at the German Wikipedia to try our shiny new software with 
their config and make sure we haven't broken anything for them. 
(Regarding that, if some German speaker reading this would like to help 
set up the test site, we could use a hand. Contact me via direct email.)

The discussion of rollout means that we think the software is, some 
minor nits aside, basically ready. Want to be sure? You can test it out 
here, and we'll even give you admin rights [1] to do so:

http://flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page


To see what we've changed this week, there's a list here:

http://flaggedrevs.labs.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Flagged_Protection_updates#2010_May_13


To see the upcoming work, it's listed in our tracker, under Current and 
Backlog:

http://www.pivotaltracker.com/projects/46157


We expect to release to labs again next week, and each week thereafter 
until this goes live on the English Wikipedia.


William


[1] You know that you [2] have always wanted admin rights!

[2] Except those of you who already have them. But for you, we have a 
whole wiki that you can go wild on. You can even have a wheel war if you 
want and we won't tell a soul.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Amory Meltzer
I absolutely agree.  I'd never use vector to edit, but from a purely
reading point of view (which is still >50% of how I use Wikimedia)
it's gorgeous, and very smooth, and I feel definitely highlights the
"editing" aspect as well.

~A



On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 16:21, AGK  wrote:
> On 13 May 2010 21:10, Carcharoth  wrote:
>> I realise I (and others) will have to adapt, and this is all part of
>> the usability drive.
>
> I maintain that the usability drive is almost exclusively aimed at
> those just discovering editing, and at new editors.
>*snip*
> AGK

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread stevertigo
Charles Matthews  wrote:

> Indeed. Going back to monobook is not quite enough, though. Best to hide
> the message speaking of "We've made a few improvements to Wikipedia", too.

And who is "we" in the "we've made improvements." It was not long ago
that "we" made the improvements.

-SC

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Charles Matthews
AGK wrote:
> Basically, us set-in-our-ways old-timers aren't the target audience
> for the Vector skin :-).
>
>   
Indeed. Going back to monobook is not quite enough, though. Best to hide 
the message speaking of "We've made a few improvements to Wikipedia", too.

Charles


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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread stevertigo
> stevertigo  wrote:
>> Agree - it needs a lot of tweaking to make it look presentable, let
>> alone professional. The shadows and thin lines make it look
>> reminiscent of Uncyclopedia's logo.

Carcharoth  wrote:
> I get the feeling something is missing behind it.

It used to have a soul.

-SC

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread AGK
On 13 May 2010 21:10, Carcharoth  wrote:
> I realise I (and others) will have to adapt, and this is all part of
> the usability drive.

I maintain that the usability drive is almost exclusively aimed at
those just discovering editing, and at new editors. It became clear
that editing Wikipedia is a very complicated process that often puts
off new editors. So by making the interface more user-friendly and
more akin to what is found on other (usually non-wiki) websites and on
offline software (notice that the edit box is more like MS
Word/OpenOffice.org Writer), we make the learning curve for new
editors less steep.

Basically, us set-in-our-ways old-timers aren't the target audience
for the Vector skin :-).

AGK

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Carcharoth
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Charles Matthews
 wrote:
> Carcharoth wrote:
>> 
>>
>> I'm used to typing the term for a page I know is there and hitting
>> "search" (instead of "go") because I want the results of a search
>> rather than being take to the page (e.g. when searching for people not
>> listed on a disambiguation page, though they should be). How do I do
>> that now? Ah. I click the small microscope icon and type in the full
>> search page instead. :-)
>>
>> Learning to find your way around a new interface is half the battle.
>>
> The other half, presumably, being to get over the annoyance that
> searching the site takes an extra keystroke or click now.

Well, not really, as I also type stuff in the URL and then click
"search" when the page isn't there, so saving the number of clicks I
do isn't really the aim. It's just getting past the "feeling lost"
stage and finding where stuff has been moved to, and where previous
functionality has been placed (and replicating it elsewhere if lost).
I realise I (and others) will have to adapt, and this is all part of
the usability drive.

Carcharoth

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Charles Matthews
Carcharoth wrote:
> 
>
> I'm used to typing the term for a page I know is there and hitting
> "search" (instead of "go") because I want the results of a search
> rather than being take to the page (e.g. when searching for people not
> listed on a disambiguation page, though they should be). How do I do
> that now? Ah. I click the small microscope icon and type in the full
> search page instead. :-)
>
> Learning to find your way around a new interface is half the battle.
>   
The other half, presumably, being to get over the annoyance that 
searching the site takes an extra keystroke or click now.

Charles


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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Ian Woollard  wrote:
> On 13/05/2010, AGK  wrote:
>> I prefer the old location for the search box, yes. But I think that's
>> because I'm _used_ to it being on the left. I think the usability team
>> gave a rationale at one point for the new box location, and I seem to
>> recall it being quite a sound one.
>
> Under firefox, the new search box is quite buggy actually. I just
> tried typing really quickly into it on a slow machine, and ended up
> with only half the information appearing; the third time the full
> information briefly appeared, and then shortened itself and in each

I've just run into this a couple of times...  And I'm not on a slow
machine (or is a dual core 64bit 2ghz machine now slow?).

I also hit it on commons all the time, but figured it was a result of
the crazy JS we've always got running over there.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Ian Woollard
On 13/05/2010, Carcharoth  wrote:
> I'm used to typing the term for a page I know is there and hitting
> "search" (instead of "go") because I want the results of a search
> rather than being take to the page (e.g. when searching for people not
> listed on a disambiguation page, though they should be). How do I do
> that now? Ah. I click the small microscope icon and type in the full
> search page instead. :-)

Yes, that's the other bad thing about the 'search'; it's really a 'go'
box that's marked 'search'.

I actually stopped using the demo version due to that.

> Carcharoth

-- 
-Ian Woollard

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Carcharoth
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:08 PM, Ian Woollard  wrote:
> On 13/05/2010, AGK  wrote:
>> I prefer the old location for the search box, yes. But I think that's
>> because I'm _used_ to it being on the left. I think the usability team
>> gave a rationale at one point for the new box location, and I seem to
>> recall it being quite a sound one.
>
> Under firefox, the new search box is quite buggy actually. I just
> tried typing really quickly into it on a slow machine, and ended up
> with only half the information appearing; the third time the full
> information briefly appeared, and then shortened itself and in each
> case it went to where it now said (nowhere useful). Only one out of
> three times did I end up at the right page, and it clearly wasn't
> simply my typo since I didn't touch the back key.



I'm used to typing the term for a page I know is there and hitting
"search" (instead of "go") because I want the results of a search
rather than being take to the page (e.g. when searching for people not
listed on a disambiguation page, though they should be). How do I do
that now? Ah. I click the small microscope icon and type in the full
search page instead. :-)

Learning to find your way around a new interface is half the battle.

Carcharoth

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Ian Woollard
On 13/05/2010, AGK  wrote:
> I prefer the old location for the search box, yes. But I think that's
> because I'm _used_ to it being on the left. I think the usability team
> gave a rationale at one point for the new box location, and I seem to
> recall it being quite a sound one.

Under firefox, the new search box is quite buggy actually. I just
tried typing really quickly into it on a slow machine, and ended up
with only half the information appearing; the third time the full
information briefly appeared, and then shortened itself and in each
case it went to where it now said (nowhere useful). Only one out of
three times did I end up at the right page, and it clearly wasn't
simply my typo since I didn't touch the back key.

> AGK

-- 
-Ian Woollard

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Carcharoth
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 7:46 PM, stevertigo  wrote:
> David Gerard  wrote:
>> I disagree. I've been using Vector since the beta and find it no problem.
>
> I agree. I've been using beta as well and I think people just need to
> be familiar with it. What would be "usable" would be a simple drop
> down menu for letting the user choose between them.
>
>> (I suspect the puzzle globe rendering could do with tweaking,
>
> Agree - it needs a lot of tweaking to make it look presentable, let
> alone professional. The shadows and thin lines make it look
> reminiscent of Uncyclopedia's logo.

I get the feeling something is missing behind it. Is there a
screenshot of what it looked like before?

Carcharoth

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread stevertigo
David Gerard  wrote:
> I disagree. I've been using Vector since the beta and find it no problem.

I agree. I've been using beta as well and I think people just need to
be familiar with it. What would be "usable" would be a simple drop
down menu for letting the user choose between them.

> (I suspect the puzzle globe rendering could do with tweaking,

Agree - it needs a lot of tweaking to make it look presentable, let
alone professional. The shadows and thin lines make it look
reminiscent of Uncyclopedia's logo.

-SC

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The new look to Wikipedia

2010-05-13 Thread Calculator Ftvb
Noöne; I just thought it important to make sure users' monobook scripts
weren't broken.

—Ecw.technoid.dweeb

On 13 May 2010 13:19, Magnus Manske  wrote:

> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Calculator Ftvb 
> wrote:
> > On 13 May 2010 10:14, Magnus Manske  wrote:
> >>
> >> Maybe that should be done automatically for everyone where monobook.js
> >> exists but vector.js doesn't?
> >
> > If that were done, it would be important to make sure the monobook.js was
> > retained (do it as a copy, rather than a move).
>
> Who suggested a move? The mail I replied to mentioned "copy".
>
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Re: [WikiEN-l] The new look to Wikipedia

2010-05-13 Thread Magnus Manske
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Calculator Ftvb  wrote:
> On 13 May 2010 10:14, Magnus Manske  wrote:
>>
>> Maybe that should be done automatically for everyone where monobook.js
>> exists but vector.js doesn't?
>
> If that were done, it would be important to make sure the monobook.js was
> retained (do it as a copy, rather than a move).

Who suggested a move? The mail I replied to mentioned "copy".

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The new look to Wikipedia

2010-05-13 Thread Calculator Ftvb
On 13 May 2010 10:14, Magnus Manske  wrote:
>
> Maybe that should be done automatically for everyone where monobook.js
> exists but vector.js doesn't?

If that were done, it would be important to make sure the monobook.js was
retained (do it as a copy, rather than a move).

—Ecw.technoid.dweeb

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Carcharoth
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Phantomsteve
 wrote:

> I'll try vector when I have a chance to try out the different scripts which
> I have in monobook - I might just add them one at a time to vector and see
> which work and which don't!

There is a page that helps people with scripts move over to vector.

My most recent annoyance was having to move the mouse cursor large
distances to reach the "editing" group, when hovering over the
"reader" group. Previously, I could hover over discussion, edit, or
history while making my mind up which one to click. Now I have to
remember to send the cursor to either the left or right, and then
likely back again if I decide I need to discuss rather than edit, or
read the article again, before checking the history. It's enough to
make me start using shortcuts!

Carcharoth

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Phantomsteve
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 13:46:47 +0100 
> From: WereSpielChequers  
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] The new look to Wikipedia 
> To: wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> Message-ID: 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 
> 
> I couldn't find the deletion and block buttons, and all the 
> scripts various people have set me up with disappeared. So 
> I've reverted to the old skin; At least they made it easy to do that. 
> 
> WereSpielChequers 

I have the same thing - I copied my monobook.js to vector.js, but some of
the scripts won't work. For the time being, I've gone back to monobook (via
my preferences - is there a difference between doing that and clicking on
'Take me back'?)

I'll try vector when I have a chance to try out the different scripts which
I have in monobook - I might just add them one at a time to vector and see
which work and which don't!

Phantomsteve 



  _  

avast! Antivirus  : Outbound message clean. 


Virus Database (VPS): 100513-0, 13/05/2010
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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Carcharoth
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 3:57 PM, MuZemike  wrote:

>  Another gripe is that they shrunk the
> search box even smaller, which really makes looking for a page
> problematic. On nearly all computers and with how vector is set up to
> operate, the width of the search box could easily be doubled.

I hope usage of the search box is being tracked (if that is possible)
to see whether use goes up or down with these changes.

Carcharoth

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread MuZemike
On 5/13/2010 8:36 AM, Stephen Bain wrote:
> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Charles Matthews
>   wrote:
>
>> My first reaction is that the watchlist arrangements are cryptic. (I was
>> always going to hate having to scroll to the top for the search box.)
>>  
> I'm used to most of it, as would most of the people who have already
> been using Vector, I imagine. I like the collapsing navigation menus
> now though, very neat.
>
> The thing that's throwing me is the new logo. It's darker than the old
> one was, and actually it seems closer to the original version of the
> puzzle globe.
>
>
I disagree (respectfully), as I especially did not like the usage of 
collapsing navigation menus. It makes me have to click and then click 
again just to get to what I want to do. (FWIW, I have many menu 
functions that I will never use removed on mine via "display: none;" 
additions on my vector.css file.) Another gripe is that they shrunk the 
search box even smaller, which really makes looking for a page 
problematic. On nearly all computers and with how vector is set up to 
operate, the width of the search box could easily be doubled.

Other than those recent changes, both which came within the past 36 
hours IIRC, I like vector as a whole. Looks more modern and crisp than 
monobook.

-MuZemike

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread David Gerard
On 13 May 2010 12:38, AGK  wrote:

> I don't really like it either. But whilst from an editor's point of
> view the skin is less suitable than monobook (or even modern), I think
> our readers will enjoy the new layout.


I disagree. I've been using Vector since the beta and find it no problem.


> But although it's too early for the mainstream media to have covered
> the redesign, what reception the blogosphere has given it seems to be
> generally negative. (Google 'wikipedia new design' and take a look at
> the blog posts and comments. But take the comments with a pinch of
> salt; typically, only those with some kind of axe to grind will
> comment on a blog post.)


I just approved about twenty complaints about the new layout and
puzzle globe on the Wikimedia blog ;-)

(I suspect the puzzle globe rendering could do with tweaking, but I
strongly approve of the official font for the logo being a properly
free font.)


- d.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The new look to Wikipedia

2010-05-13 Thread Magnus Manske
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Amory Meltzer  wrote:
> Delete and protect are in the dropdown arrow next to the star on the
> upper-right.  Block is where it always was, on the toolbar on the
> left, but you have to click the arrow to display the menu.  The reason
> none of your scripts worked is that they are all in
> [[User:WereSpielChequers/monobook.js]].  The new skin is called
> vector, so just copy all of that over to
> [[User:WereSpielChequers/vector.js]]

Maybe that should be done automatically for everyone where monobook.js
exists but vector.js doesn't?

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread AGK
> The thing that's throwing me is the new logo. It's darker than the old
> one was, and actually it seems closer to the original version of the
> puzzle globe.

It also looks to me less sharp than the old version. Especially
odd-looking is the text underneath the Wikipedia globe. Does anybody
else notice this?

AGK

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Amory Meltzer
It's counter-intuitive, perhaps, but I find the internet community as
a whole to be surprisingly unaccepting of change.

~A


On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 09:16, William Pietri  wrote:
> People should probably take blog and blog comment reaction with quite a
> bit of salt. I've been through a lot of redesigns, and the visible
> reaction always includes a lot of grumbling. The best you can hope for
> is general acquiescence with some griping, but getting a bucketful of
> worst! design! evaaar! still doesn't tell you much about the quality of
> the design.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The new look to Wikipedia

2010-05-13 Thread Amory Meltzer
Delete and protect are in the dropdown arrow next to the star on the
upper-right.  Block is where it always was, on the toolbar on the
left, but you have to click the arrow to display the menu.  The reason
none of your scripts worked is that they are all in
[[User:WereSpielChequers/monobook.js]].  The new skin is called
vector, so just copy all of that over to
[[User:WereSpielChequers/vector.js]]

~A



On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 08:46, WereSpielChequers
 wrote:
> I couldn't find the deletion and block buttons, and all the scripts
> various people have set me up with disappeared. So I've reverted to
> the old skin; At least they made it easy to do that.
>
> WereSpielChequers
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:38:56 +0100
>> From: AGK 
>> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look
>> To: English Wikipedia 
>> Message-ID:
>>        
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>>> Cameron and Clegg have got to WP already? No, I must be confused, but
>>> the "new look" has arrived on our pages.
>>
>> I don't really like it either. But whilst from an editor's point of
>> view the skin is less suitable than monobook (or even modern), I think
>> our readers will enjoy the new layout. The redesign seemed to be
>> well-received in any publications that gave a preview of the proposed
>> changes:
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/mar/29/wikipedia-redesign
>>
>> But although it's too early for the mainstream media to have covered
>> the redesign, what reception the blogosphere has given it seems to be
>> generally negative. (Google 'wikipedia new design' and take a look at
>> the blog posts and comments. But take the comments with a pinch of
>> salt; typically, only those with some kind of axe to grind will
>> comment on a blog post.)
>>
>>> My first reaction is that the watchlist arrangements are cryptic. (I was
>>> always going to hate having to scroll to the top for the search box.)
>>
>> I prefer the old location for the search box, yes. But I think that's
>> because I'm _used_ to it being on the left. I think the usability team
>> gave a rationale at one point for the new box location, and I seem to
>> recall it being quite a sound one.
>>
>> I don't know what you mean to say about the watchlist arrangements.
>> Are you referring to the little star in place of a 'watch' tab?
>>
>> AGK
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Stephen Bain
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Charles Matthews
 wrote:
>
> My first reaction is that the watchlist arrangements are cryptic. (I was
> always going to hate having to scroll to the top for the search box.)

I'm used to most of it, as would most of the people who have already
been using Vector, I imagine. I like the collapsing navigation menus
now though, very neat.

The thing that's throwing me is the new logo. It's darker than the old
one was, and actually it seems closer to the original version of the
puzzle globe.

-- 
Stephen Bain
stephen.b...@gmail.com

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread William Pietri
On 05/13/2010 04:38 AM, AGK wrote:
> But although it's too early for the mainstream media to have covered
> the redesign, what reception the blogosphere has given it seems to be
> generally negative. (Google 'wikipedia new design' and take a look at
> the blog posts and comments. But take the comments with a pinch of
> salt; typically, only those with some kind of axe to grind will
> comment on a blog post.)
>

People should probably take blog and blog comment reaction with quite a 
bit of salt. I've been through a lot of redesigns, and the visible 
reaction always includes a lot of grumbling. The best you can hope for 
is general acquiescence with some griping, but getting a bucketful of 
worst! design! evaaar! still doesn't tell you much about the quality of 
the design.

For all but the most neophilic and the most design-aware of your engaged 
users, a design change is, when it is noticed at all, a pure short-term 
cost. There may be a long-term gain for them, and there will hopefully 
be a bigger gain for the previously less-engaged users.  But almost by 
definition, current users think things are mostly fine, especially the 
ones engaged enough to notice and comment upon a new design. And just 
when they've gotten comfortable, somebody's gone and moved things around 
on them. How rude!

The true measure of a new design is in its medium-term impact on the 
behavior of users, both the large majority of current users who never 
would have bothered to comment and the new users that turn up for the 
first time. Are people searching more? Do they have an easier time 
finding the left-hand links that they need? Are novices editing more? 
And so on.

For comparison, people should look at the comments on any recent Google 
redesign. Google has a love of data and the resources to do a ton of 
testing before any public launch of a redesign, so you can be pretty 
sure that the metrics for any change are solid. But you can still find 
as many zomg-design-fail comments as you care to read.

William

P.S. That's not to say that any redesign, including this one, is 
perfect, or to devalue user feedback. I'm just saying that the tone of 
the initial reaction isn't a good way to measure design quality.

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[WikiEN-l] The new look to Wikipedia

2010-05-13 Thread WereSpielChequers
I couldn't find the deletion and block buttons, and all the scripts
various people have set me up with disappeared. So I've reverted to
the old skin; At least they made it easy to do that.

WereSpielChequers
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:38:56 +0100
> From: AGK 
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look
> To: English Wikipedia 
> Message-ID:
>        
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>> Cameron and Clegg have got to WP already? No, I must be confused, but
>> the "new look" has arrived on our pages.
>
> I don't really like it either. But whilst from an editor's point of
> view the skin is less suitable than monobook (or even modern), I think
> our readers will enjoy the new layout. The redesign seemed to be
> well-received in any publications that gave a preview of the proposed
> changes:
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/mar/29/wikipedia-redesign
>
> But although it's too early for the mainstream media to have covered
> the redesign, what reception the blogosphere has given it seems to be
> generally negative. (Google 'wikipedia new design' and take a look at
> the blog posts and comments. But take the comments with a pinch of
> salt; typically, only those with some kind of axe to grind will
> comment on a blog post.)
>
>> My first reaction is that the watchlist arrangements are cryptic. (I was
>> always going to hate having to scroll to the top for the search box.)
>
> I prefer the old location for the search box, yes. But I think that's
> because I'm _used_ to it being on the left. I think the usability team
> gave a rationale at one point for the new box location, and I seem to
> recall it being quite a sound one.
>
> I don't know what you mean to say about the watchlist arrangements.
> Are you referring to the little star in place of a 'watch' tab?
>
> AGK




--

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Re: [WikiEN-l] declining numbers of EN wiki admins

2010-05-13 Thread AGK
> o_0 Citation needed. I've been amazed how it's become increasingly a
> talking point on my CV over the years. (I put it in "other interests"
> at the end.) People *like* Wikipedia.

That they do. People might write it off in conversation, but secretly,
when they google that obscure term they heard for the first time
earlier that day, they aren't going to skip by the Wikipedia entry
(which will probably be top).

> Yes, "stagnation" is far more accurate. Thing is, it used to be a
> source of pride to tell your real world associates that you're a
> wikipedia admin. You'd even put it on your resume. Now, it's a bit of
> an embarassing secret and you definitely would not raise it in a job
> interview.

For my part I wouldn't dream about telling anybody but my closest
friends that I edit Wikipedia. More than anything, it's just very
geeky :-).

AGK

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Carcharoth
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Charles Matthews
 wrote:
> AGK wrote:
>>> My first reaction is that the watchlist arrangements are cryptic. (I was
>>> always going to hate having to scroll to the top for the search box.)
>>>
>>
>> I prefer the old location for the search box, yes. But I think that's
>> because I'm _used_ to it being on the left. I think the usability team
>> gave a rationale at one point for the new box location, and I seem to
>> recall it being quite a sound one.
>>
>> I don't know what you mean to say about the watchlist arrangements.
>> Are you referring to the little star in place of a 'watch' tab?
>>
> Yes - took me a while to realise that the word "watch" had been reduced
> to a hover-over.

I read Wikipedia logged-out from some locations, and it took me a
while to realise that the "user contributions" link had been collapsed
along with the rest of the toolbox. It seems to be staying
uncollapsed, so hopefully those sort of settings are "sticky" for at
least each session, whether logged in or out (i.e. only have to expand
collapsed stuff once).

Carcharoth

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Charles Matthews
AGK wrote:
>> My first reaction is that the watchlist arrangements are cryptic. (I was
>> always going to hate having to scroll to the top for the search box.)
>> 
>
> I prefer the old location for the search box, yes. But I think that's
> because I'm _used_ to it being on the left. I think the usability team
> gave a rationale at one point for the new box location, and I seem to
> recall it being quite a sound one.
>
> I don't know what you mean to say about the watchlist arrangements.
> Are you referring to the little star in place of a 'watch' tab?
>   
Yes - took me a while to realise that the word "watch" had been reduced 
to a hover-over.

Charles


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Re: [WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread AGK
> Cameron and Clegg have got to WP already? No, I must be confused, but
> the "new look" has arrived on our pages.

I don't really like it either. But whilst from an editor's point of
view the skin is less suitable than monobook (or even modern), I think
our readers will enjoy the new layout. The redesign seemed to be
well-received in any publications that gave a preview of the proposed
changes:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/mar/29/wikipedia-redesign

But although it's too early for the mainstream media to have covered
the redesign, what reception the blogosphere has given it seems to be
generally negative. (Google 'wikipedia new design' and take a look at
the blog posts and comments. But take the comments with a pinch of
salt; typically, only those with some kind of axe to grind will
comment on a blog post.)

> My first reaction is that the watchlist arrangements are cryptic. (I was
> always going to hate having to scroll to the top for the search box.)

I prefer the old location for the search box, yes. But I think that's
because I'm _used_ to it being on the left. I think the usability team
gave a rationale at one point for the new box location, and I seem to
recall it being quite a sound one.

I don't know what you mean to say about the watchlist arrangements.
Are you referring to the little star in place of a 'watch' tab?

AGK

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[WikiEN-l] The New Look

2010-05-13 Thread Charles Matthews
Cameron and Clegg have got to WP already? No, I must be confused, but 
the "new look" has arrived on our pages.

My first reaction is that the watchlist arrangements are cryptic. (I was 
always going to hate having to scroll to the top for the search box.)

Charles


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Re: [WikiEN-l] declining numbers of EN wiki admins

2010-05-13 Thread Peter Coombe
On 25 March 2010 23:10, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
> On 25 March 2010 21:55, Nathan  wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:48 PM, geni  wrote:
>>> On 25 March 2010 21:03, Nathan  wrote:
 A couple more questions to which I don't know the answer:

 1) What is the total administrative workload now compared to previous 
 periods?
>>>
>>> The peak was probably back when we sorted out the fair use issues. I'd
>>> say that beyond that it's pretty typical.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Typical to what period of time? Presumably the anti-vandal bots,
>> huggle and the abuse filter cut down on the need for administrators
>> working in that area, as an example.
>
> Reverting vandalism has never been an admin job, it's blocking the
> vandals that needs and admin and the anti-vandal bots don't help with
> that. There are tools that add the block templates to user talk pages
> automatically, which helps, but that's about it.
>

Remember that admins used to be the only ones with a quick rollback
button, so they did do more cleaning up vandalism. Would be
interesting to look at the trend before and after that was split off
to its own right.

Pete / the wub

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Re: [WikiEN-l] declining numbers of EN wiki admins

2010-05-13 Thread Delirium
On 05/13/2010 12:29 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 13 May 2010 07:07, David Katz  wrote:
>
>
>> Yes, "stagnation" is far more accurate. Thing is, it used to be a
>> source of pride to tell your real world associates that you're a
>> wikipedia admin. You'd even put it on your resume. Now, it's a bit of
>> an embarassing secret and you definitely would not raise it in a job
>> interview.
>>  
> o_0 Citation needed. I've been amazed how it's become increasingly a
> talking point on my CV over the years. (I put it in "other interests"
> at the end.) People *like* Wikipedia.
>

Same here. When I first became an admin in 2004, the usual reaction was, 
"Wikipedia? Never heard of it", but now I put it on my CV when applying 
for academic jobs, and it usually becomes a talking point. I think being 
heavily involved in *the* main source of information for a large portion 
of the internet-using public is and should be an interesting sort of 
thing. At the very least, I've had lots of interesting conversations at 
academic conferences from academics who are very curious but very 
confused about Wikipedia, but relatively few who have unredeemably 
negative opinions (the few tend to be from the "aristocratic academic" 
sort of personality, shocked that anyone without a PhD is allowed to 
write things).

-Mark


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Re: [WikiEN-l] declining numbers of EN wiki admins

2010-05-13 Thread David Gerard
On 13 May 2010 07:07, David Katz  wrote:

> Yes, "stagnation" is far more accurate. Thing is, it used to be a
> source of pride to tell your real world associates that you're a
> wikipedia admin. You'd even put it on your resume. Now, it's a bit of
> an embarassing secret and you definitely would not raise it in a job
> interview.

o_0 Citation needed. I've been amazed how it's become increasingly a
talking point on my CV over the years. (I put it in "other interests"
at the end.) People *like* Wikipedia.


- d.

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