Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
Just a note about the results we will get, so there are no misunderstandings: It will be the one that new users respond best to (which start them editing), and not necessarily the ones Wikipedians like the best. And feel free to create better versions yourself. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/2/21 Elias Friedman elipo...@gmail.com Definitely NOT the bookshelf version! Whatever version you go with, DO include the link to those instructional videos. I didn't even know we had those! Sent from my Droid2 Elias Friedman A.S., CCEMT-P אליהו מתתיהו בן צבי elipo...@gmail.com On Feb 20, 2011 5:28 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson, Fellow of the Wikimedia Foundation and chair of Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
Of course we want them keep editing, not just starting. :-) And there are several measures we can have for success, but Sue Gardner and several others have spoken about the focus this year. One measure that have come up is that we look at the newcomers' first 100 edits. After that they should be prepared for what Wikipedia is. And to get them to actually make 100 edits we may need to handhold them better. But let's step back a bit. I think we need to think of this in several steps: 1 let non-Wikipedians know that they actually *can* edit (more people than you imagine do not actually know that *they* can edit Wikipedia, even if they know that *you* can edit) 2 encourage them to start editing 3 not scare them away What this project is focused on is not step 1 or 3, but parts of 2. My Fellowship is after all only 6 months long and we need to have some limits to it. The Account Creation is something fairly simple to improve. We change some pages and measure what effect that has, and pick whichever change has the best result. The other things are much more difficult, and may even *gasp* require some soulsearching among the regular Wikipedians to see what we can do better. So let's start with something easier and make more versions of the landing pages. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/2/21 Elias Friedman elipo...@gmail.com Okay then, let me ask how do you intend to measure start them editing? Raw edit counts? Over what period of time? Will what namespace matter? Frankly I'm not as interested in getting new people *started* editing as I am I in *keeping* them editing. Many new editors get frustrated because they don't understand basic rules like proper sourcing and citation. Many are not good at reading our written rules - that's why I was excited to see those tutorial videos. I really think they can bridge the gap for the majority of people who don't do well with just RTFM. That's why I say that at least a link to those videos should be on *every* version of that landing page. Sent from my Droid2 Elias Friedman A.S., CCEMT-P אליהו מתתיהו בן צבי elipo...@gmail.com On Feb 20, 2011 6:33 PM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote: -- Lennart Guldbrandsson, Fellow of the Wikimedia Foundation and chair of Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Somebody must correct this
On 21 February 2011 00:52, michael west michaw...@gmail.com wrote: No Thomas, there are problems with (a) the East Pakistan/West Pakistan war (Bhhutto was a memeber of government and never appeared on TV - it was the government leader who told of West Pakistan's capitulation) I made no comment as to the accuracy of the article, only your claim that it is un-sourced. There are numerous sources in that article. The sources may be incorrect or the article may be misinterpreting the sources, but the sources are there. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Somebody must correct this
The larger point is that this isn't the ideal forum for finding editorial assistance. I'm surprised no one has yet responded with WP:SOFIXIThttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOFIXIT. At a glance, the page looks OK, if not great. Perhaps there are indeed serious problems with it, but being un-sourced as you first wrote does not seem to be the key problem. So fix it! You seem to have the interest and knowledge. That plus a little initiative is (often) all that separates a bad article from a good one. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 7:22 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On 21 February 2011 00:52, michael west michaw...@gmail.com wrote: No Thomas, there are problems with (a) the East Pakistan/West Pakistan war (Bhhutto was a memeber of government and never appeared on TV - it was the government leader who told of West Pakistan's capitulation) I made no comment as to the accuracy of the article, only your claim that it is un-sourced. There are numerous sources in that article. The sources may be incorrect or the article may be misinterpreting the sources, but the sources are there. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
I'm not usually one for graphic design, so this could probably do with improving and relevant links adding. I've added a version that could be helpful at http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/mod2 What I'm hoping to address are: 1. Layouts original version and redesign are too close to wall of text for many newcomers. Even though they are simple short bullet lists with icons, I'm concerned they'll skip it. A better layout and a few brief bullets may do better and also be more informative. 2. The audience is people who want to get involved, so an overview they can come back to might be helpful. I have assumed this page is linked from the toolkit so they can always find it. 3. It might be better to have a link for editing, and save the mention of policies there. At the start a user needs to know the basics, that some stuff will be ok and some won't, and click here to find out which. Then they are reading it *by choice* and it'll probably be more sticky as a result. Words like policies may tend to overwhelm or frighten many of those we want to engage. 4. The section for readers also includes* Reading, or want to make improvements and corrections? *The *unstated thought *is that a reader will also be someone who might want to make a small correction. Gut feel says that a major route is readers who are then tempted to make their first correction, or who need to know they *can *think of it. I'd like to see the effect of including making a small improvement or correction *as part of info for end-users*, not just keeping it separate. Not technically accurate but may be effective this way, as editing could be felt as overwhelming (initially) where make a small correction may be perceived as empowering. Many people may think someone should fix that and despite all our pages, not fully realize the someone is allowed to be *them*. 5. *I have not put links in yet.* I would not make individual words, lines, or sentences a link. Link proliferation is a distraction, we found that out in the record 2010 fundraiser. Make each section (except the last) to be *one* link clickable anywhere. Unfortunately (bug 18640https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18460) the a href... html tag can't be used yet in markup, otherwise I'd make the entirety of each cell a single link to some (short) relevant subpage. I'd actually like it done via a popup, that appears when you click a cell for information. That's more classy and suited to the richer interface of other modern websites, but outside my skills. Anyone else know where I can find a basic click this and get a dismissible popup DIV class? :) 6. Should contain something interesting and engaging too :) Feedback and any design-related questions welcomed! Not sure where to link this from/to though. FT2 ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
This is good. I'll make sure we'll test this as well. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/2/21 FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com I'm not usually one for graphic design, so this could probably do with improving and relevant links adding. I've added a version that could be helpful at http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/mod2 What I'm hoping to address are: 1. Layouts original version and redesign are too close to wall of text for many newcomers. Even though they are simple short bullet lists with icons, I'm concerned they'll skip it. A better layout and a few brief bullets may do better and also be more informative. 2. The audience is people who want to get involved, so an overview they can come back to might be helpful. I have assumed this page is linked from the toolkit so they can always find it. 3. It might be better to have a link for editing, and save the mention of policies there. At the start a user needs to know the basics, that some stuff will be ok and some won't, and click here to find out which. Then they are reading it *by choice* and it'll probably be more sticky as a result. Words like policies may tend to overwhelm or frighten many of those we want to engage. 4. The section for readers also includes* Reading, or want to make improvements and corrections? *The *unstated thought *is that a reader will also be someone who might want to make a small correction. Gut feel says that a major route is readers who are then tempted to make their first correction, or who need to know they *can *think of it. I'd like to see the effect of including making a small improvement or correction *as part of info for end-users*, not just keeping it separate. Not technically accurate but may be effective this way, as editing could be felt as overwhelming (initially) where make a small correction may be perceived as empowering. Many people may think someone should fix that and despite all our pages, not fully realize the someone is allowed to be *them*. 5. *I have not put links in yet.* I would not make individual words, lines, or sentences a link. Link proliferation is a distraction, we found that out in the record 2010 fundraiser. Make each section (except the last) to be *one* link clickable anywhere. Unfortunately (bug 18640https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18460) the a href... html tag can't be used yet in markup, otherwise I'd make the entirety of each cell a single link to some (short) relevant subpage. I'd actually like it done via a popup, that appears when you click a cell for information. That's more classy and suited to the richer interface of other modern websites, but outside my skills. Anyone else know where I can find a basic click this and get a dismissible popup DIV class? :) 6. Should contain something interesting and engaging too :) Feedback and any design-related questions welcomed! Not sure where to link this from/to though. FT2 ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson, Fellow of the Wikimedia Foundation and chair of Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] FW: [Gendergap] Nine Reasons Women Don't Edit Wikipedia
-- From: Marc Riddell michaeldavi...@comcast.net Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 08:51:38 -0500 To: Gendergap List gender...@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: FW: [Gendergap] Nine Reasons Women Don't Edit Wikipedia -- From: Marc Riddell michaeldavi...@comcast.net Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 18:34:48 -0500 To: Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Nine Reasons Women Don't Edit Wikipedia On 20 February 2011 14:24, Marc Riddell michaeldavi...@comcast.net wrote: Sue, as you know, this is the area of my greatest concern regarding the future of the Wikipedia Project. The gender gap is a part of the larger problem you described above: That of a combative, hostile and defensive culture that presents an unchecked arena for Community Member harassment and abuse - that prevents the type of healthy, intelligent and productive collaboration that can, and will, improve and maintain the quality of the Project. Is there, are there, plans to mount a similar initiative to tackle this larger problem? To approach it as a gender-neutral problem? on 2/20/11 5:46 PM, Sue Gardner at sgard...@wikimedia.org wrote: Yes, absolutely. And it's not just plans: people are actively working on the issue, today. This is the primary work of the Community department at the Wikimedia Foundation -- the staff there are currently working with community members on a bunch of projects and activities to help make the Wikimedia projects more inclusive. A lot of that is happening on the outreach wiki -- for example, the Account Creation improvement project, the Bookshelf project, the Ambassador program, support for student campus associations, and so forth. http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bookshelf_Project http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Ambassador_Program http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_student_clubs There's also some outreach-related/outreach-supportive activities that have been announced on the Wikimedia blog: http://blog.wikimedia.org/blog/2011/01/12/new-wikimedia-fellow/ http://blog.wikimedia.org/blog/2010/11/30/upload-wizard-launches-beta-wikimedi a-commons/ http://blog.wikimedia.org/blog/2010/09/30/two-new-community-department-fello ws / I agree with you Marc that our central challenge is the need for deep culture change, to help Wikimedia be more inclusive and open. I think the gender challenge is part of that, but it's obviously not the whole story: we need more women, and we also need more editors from outside North America and Europe, as well as other underrepresented groups. And we want current editors to be having better, more positive experiences on the projects, as well. Thanks, Sue Thank you, for this, Sue. And, at the most basic level, we a faced with the reality that this cultural change can only begin, and grow, at the most basic level: The individual. Sue, there are key persons in the Project that, by virtue of their official position or, simply because they are more frequently vocal on the various Project conversation sites, who must lead by example. Each one must be actively working toward this healthier culture. They, and all of us, must set the tone. I truly believe that if the climate is healthy, the culture will be also. Marc ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Points to Ponder
All, Familiar points to ponder. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/us/politics/21civility.html?nl=todaysheadl inesemc=tha23 Marc ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Points to Ponder
All, Familiar points to ponder. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/us/politics/21civility.html?nl=todaysheadl inesemc=tha23 Marc ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
Since it's a WMF holiday and I can do whatever I want with my time, I made one too. ;) http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/Video_walkthrough Like FT2, I welcome any edits to make it look better. And feedback about the content is of course welcome too. I can always do more takes with revised scripts. -Sage On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote: This is good. I'll make sure we'll test this as well. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/2/21 FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com I'm not usually one for graphic design, so this could probably do with improving and relevant links adding. I've added a version that could be helpful at http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/mod2 What I'm hoping to address are: 1. Layouts original version and redesign are too close to wall of text for many newcomers. Even though they are simple short bullet lists with icons, I'm concerned they'll skip it. A better layout and a few brief bullets may do better and also be more informative. 2. The audience is people who want to get involved, so an overview they can come back to might be helpful. I have assumed this page is linked from the toolkit so they can always find it. 3. It might be better to have a link for editing, and save the mention of policies there. At the start a user needs to know the basics, that some stuff will be ok and some won't, and click here to find out which. Then they are reading it *by choice* and it'll probably be more sticky as a result. Words like policies may tend to overwhelm or frighten many of those we want to engage. 4. The section for readers also includes* Reading, or want to make improvements and corrections? *The *unstated thought *is that a reader will also be someone who might want to make a small correction. Gut feel says that a major route is readers who are then tempted to make their first correction, or who need to know they *can *think of it. I'd like to see the effect of including making a small improvement or correction *as part of info for end-users*, not just keeping it separate. Not technically accurate but may be effective this way, as editing could be felt as overwhelming (initially) where make a small correction may be perceived as empowering. Many people may think someone should fix that and despite all our pages, not fully realize the someone is allowed to be *them*. 5. *I have not put links in yet.* I would not make individual words, lines, or sentences a link. Link proliferation is a distraction, we found that out in the record 2010 fundraiser. Make each section (except the last) to be *one* link clickable anywhere. Unfortunately (bug 18640https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18460) the a href... html tag can't be used yet in markup, otherwise I'd make the entirety of each cell a single link to some (short) relevant subpage. I'd actually like it done via a popup, that appears when you click a cell for information. That's more classy and suited to the richer interface of other modern websites, but outside my skills. Anyone else know where I can find a basic click this and get a dismissible popup DIV class? :) 6. Should contain something interesting and engaging too :) Feedback and any design-related questions welcomed! Not sure where to link this from/to though. FT2 ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson, Fellow of the Wikimedia Foundation and chair of Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Missing Wikipedians: An Essay
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 15:40:35 +0100 From: Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] [Foundation-l] Missing Wikipedians: An Essay Well this is a similar problem I am having with adding details to, or new articles about Kosovo, even my attempts are getting deleted. Mike, certainly this would be a systemic bias issue, but some of your editing needs refining to avoid running into problems. Having problems even getting the Turkish, Bosnian or Albanian alternative names added without being deleted, even if sources Why should all these alternate names by included in the English Wikipedia? I've seen you raising these name disputes repeatedly on this list and at various noticeboards; you need to stop forum-shopping and instead open an RfC so this can be centrally discussed. You're looking a bit like a single-purpose account on this issue and such issues have been taken to ArbCom before, see [[WP:ARBMAC]]. Tread carefully. let alone a coverage of members of parliament (list of them deleted as not notable). That list was 1) formatted in a very unusual way, with each person having a heading and with almost no wikilinks 2) almost entirely unsourced. It wasn't deleted as non-notable, it was deleted as being a directory. If you want lists of living people to stay you need to format them according to the manual of style for lists and source them properly. Particularly for such a controversial area as Kosovan politics we cannot be cavalier about making claims to do with living people. I have restored the history to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mdupont/List_of_politicians_in_Kosovo and I have begun cleanup. If you want such a list back in mainspace, it needs formatting and sourcing properly. Also local pop-stars who are not notable by English newspapers are deleted, even if they are well know and unavoidable. If you can provide reliable sources in non-English languages, such articles can certainly be kept. I've done so before. The key is to actually provide the sources and not merely assert notability. p.s. The format of my emails tends to come out weird on this list - sorry. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
On 21 February 2011 20:19, Sage Ross ragesoss+wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/Video_walkthrough The person in the video frame that comes up in my browser (Firefox 4.0b11) looks very dismayed :-) http://oi51.tinypic.com/9zufsy.jpg - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:30 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 February 2011 20:19, Sage Ross ragesoss+wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/Video_walkthrough The person in the video frame that comes up in my browser (Firefox 4.0b11) looks very dismayed :-) http://oi51.tinypic.com/9zufsy.jpg I did a quick fix, setting the thumbtime to a second later when I'm smiling. I'll upload a different version that starts with smiling frames when I get a chance. -Sage ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
I like the video, Sage. Good text, crisp clear delivery, decent video appearance. One thing I'd change is, watch again the bit around 1:25 - 1:37 covering stuff you might want to know about before editing. A new user hearing that long list could well go oh my god and be discouraged. A link to a long text page like ABOUT has become, is also not easy for most newcomers (users here are not typical of newcomers). Overall it's *crucial* to keep the list of stuff to learn easy and light. I think MediaWiki needs a built-in generic popup-and-dismiss function, so that information pages can have icons and text where more information appears only if needed (with a close icon), allowing lower text density. This could be a useful resource too:- I wrote [[Wikipedia:Expectations and norms of the Wikipedia communityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Expectations_and_norms_of_the_Wikipedia_community]] as a quick attempt to explain the basis of how we work, and our norms *as a community* in concise form, in a style specifically to make sense to newcomers. It covers almost all usual expectations and the rational foundation of the community, in a reasonable space. If it could be made even easier (less text? graphical? popups for detail?) then it could be useful material for this discussion. FT2 On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Sage Ross ragesoss+wikipe...@gmail.comwrote: Since it's a WMF holiday and I can do whatever I want with my time, I made one too. ;) http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/Video_walkthrough Like FT2, I welcome any edits to make it look better. And feedback about the content is of course welcome too. I can always do more takes with revised scripts. -Sage On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote: This is good. I'll make sure we'll test this as well. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/2/21 FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com I'm not usually one for graphic design, so this could probably do with improving and relevant links adding. I've added a version that could be helpful at http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/mod2 What I'm hoping to address are: 1. Layouts original version and redesign are too close to wall of text for many newcomers. Even though they are simple short bullet lists with icons, I'm concerned they'll skip it. A better layout and a few brief bullets may do better and also be more informative. 2. The audience is people who want to get involved, so an overview they can come back to might be helpful. I have assumed this page is linked from the toolkit so they can always find it. 3. It might be better to have a link for editing, and save the mention of policies there. At the start a user needs to know the basics, that some stuff will be ok and some won't, and click here to find out which. Then they are reading it *by choice* and it'll probably be more sticky as a result. Words like policies may tend to overwhelm or frighten many of those we want to engage. 4. The section for readers also includes* Reading, or want to make improvements and corrections? *The *unstated thought *is that a reader will also be someone who might want to make a small correction. Gut feel says that a major route is readers who are then tempted to make their first correction, or who need to know they *can *think of it. I'd like to see the effect of including making a small improvement or correction *as part of info for end-users*, not just keeping it separate. Not technically accurate but may be effective this way, as editing could be felt as overwhelming (initially) where make a small correction may be perceived as empowering. Many people may think someone should fix that and despite all our pages, not fully realize the someone is allowed to be *them*. 5. *I have not put links in yet.* I would not make individual words, lines, or sentences a link. Link proliferation is a distraction, we found that out in the record 2010 fundraiser. Make each section (except the last) to be *one* link clickable anywhere. Unfortunately (bug 18640https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18460) the a href... html tag can't be used yet in markup, otherwise I'd make the entirety of each cell a single link to some (short) relevant subpage. I'd actually like it done via a popup, that appears when you click a cell for information. That's more classy and suited to the richer interface of other modern websites, but outside my skills. Anyone else know where I can find a basic click this and get a dismissible popup DIV class? :) 6. Should contain something interesting and engaging too :) Feedback and any design-related
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
The video intro is awesome, Sage :) I'd love to see more variations on a theme with various people, too -- and maybe some experimentation with interspersing screenshots etc. But I like it because it is short and to the point and friendly, and it gives a human face to a kind of intimidating wall o'text. And I am not normally a person who likes videos :) cheers, phoebe On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Sage Ross ragesoss+wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: Since it's a WMF holiday and I can do whatever I want with my time, I made one too. ;) http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/Video_walkthrough Like FT2, I welcome any edits to make it look better. And feedback about the content is of course welcome too. I can always do more takes with revised scripts. -Sage On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote: This is good. I'll make sure we'll test this as well. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/2/21 FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com I'm not usually one for graphic design, so this could probably do with improving and relevant links adding. I've added a version that could be helpful at http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/mod2 What I'm hoping to address are: 1. Layouts original version and redesign are too close to wall of text for many newcomers. Even though they are simple short bullet lists with icons, I'm concerned they'll skip it. A better layout and a few brief bullets may do better and also be more informative. 2. The audience is people who want to get involved, so an overview they can come back to might be helpful. I have assumed this page is linked from the toolkit so they can always find it. 3. It might be better to have a link for editing, and save the mention of policies there. At the start a user needs to know the basics, that some stuff will be ok and some won't, and click here to find out which. Then they are reading it *by choice* and it'll probably be more sticky as a result. Words like policies may tend to overwhelm or frighten many of those we want to engage. 4. The section for readers also includes* Reading, or want to make improvements and corrections? *The *unstated thought *is that a reader will also be someone who might want to make a small correction. Gut feel says that a major route is readers who are then tempted to make their first correction, or who need to know they *can *think of it. I'd like to see the effect of including making a small improvement or correction *as part of info for end-users*, not just keeping it separate. Not technically accurate but may be effective this way, as editing could be felt as overwhelming (initially) where make a small correction may be perceived as empowering. Many people may think someone should fix that and despite all our pages, not fully realize the someone is allowed to be *them*. 5. *I have not put links in yet.* I would not make individual words, lines, or sentences a link. Link proliferation is a distraction, we found that out in the record 2010 fundraiser. Make each section (except the last) to be *one* link clickable anywhere. Unfortunately (bug 18640https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18460) the a href... html tag can't be used yet in markup, otherwise I'd make the entirety of each cell a single link to some (short) relevant subpage. I'd actually like it done via a popup, that appears when you click a cell for information. That's more classy and suited to the richer interface of other modern websites, but outside my skills. Anyone else know where I can find a basic click this and get a dismissible popup DIV class? :) 6. Should contain something interesting and engaging too :) Feedback and any design-related questions welcomed! Not sure where to link this from/to though. FT2 ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson, Fellow of the Wikimedia Foundation and chair of Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers at gmail.com * ___ WikiEN-l mailing list
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
On 21 February 2011 20:45, Sage Ross ragesoss+wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:30 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: The person in the video frame that comes up in my browser (Firefox 4.0b11) looks very dismayed :-) http://oi51.tinypic.com/9zufsy.jpg I did a quick fix, setting the thumbtime to a second later when I'm smiling. I'll upload a different version that starts with smiling frames when I get a chance. YOU ARE SO YOUNG. WHY U SO YOUNG. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
On 21 February 2011 22:31, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: YOU ARE SO YOUNG. WHY U SO YOUNG. Was that a way of auditioning for the next video, David? :-) I'm a middle-aged suburban dad. This is my daughter crawling over me demanding attention. Why not work on the CBeebies articles? You know Octonauts needs proper documentation. You can sing the theme tune by now. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?
Thanks, Sage for that wonderful video. There is still room on that page to add more versions if you feel that we have missed something :-) /Lennart 2011/2/21 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com On 21 February 2011 22:31, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: YOU ARE SO YOUNG. WHY U SO YOUNG. Was that a way of auditioning for the next video, David? :-) I'm a middle-aged suburban dad. This is my daughter crawling over me demanding attention. Why not work on the CBeebies articles? You know Octonauts needs proper documentation. You can sing the theme tune by now. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson, Fellow of the Wikimedia Foundation and chair of Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
