Re: [WikiEN-l] Future of this mailing list
On 13 August 2015 at 15:08, Brian J Mingus wrote: > Leave the list open! There are lots of important people subscribed, and you > never know when an interesting conversation will pop up. > Sounds as if we need a moderator willing to take over from David G. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Future of this mailing list
By active I mean open. It has had periods of quietness. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Brian J Mingus wrote: > Leave the list open! There are lots of important people subscribed, and > you never know when an interesting conversation will pop up. > > I'm the present moderator of a mailing list that's been active since 1988. > When an interesting conversation starts, it's fascinating to see all the > famous people chime in. That could happen here. > > Best, > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Risker wrote: > >> I've given this some thought, and pretty much come to the conclusion that >> it would be better to make this list "historic" rather than keep it open. >> This is a reflection on the fact that almost none of the subscribers seem >> to use it, that there are almost no posts to it, that it can easily become >> a black hole where a "new" subscriber is unaware that the likelihood >> they'll get a response to their email, or one that is accurate or >> actionable, is very small. >> >> In an ideal world, this list would be active and lively and chock full of >> interesting discussions. That's not happening at all. It is better to >> consider this "legacy communication" and to lock it down (thus relieving >> the responsibilities of the probably one or two list admins who are >> actually moderating through the one real message out of thousands of spam >> messages). It is obvious that this list is no longer serving the purpose >> it once had. I'm not sure exactly where people are going to communicate >> now - there are lots of comments for a lot of blog posts, I understand >> facebook gets a fair number of responses, and some of the on-wiki >> noticeboard are quite active. But this list is no longer reaching the >> target community. >> >> Risker/Anne >> >> On 11 August 2015 at 17:16, Pine W wrote: >> >> > I don't see much harm in keeping this list alive in a low-activity >> state. >> > >> > Pine >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Carcharoth < >> carcharot...@googlemail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Time to once again consider the future of this list and maybe also >> > > that of Wikipedia-L (as David suggested back in December)? >> > > >> > > I think I'm right in saying that apart from this list being used for >> > > some discussion of block appeals, nothing was posted here for all of >> > > June and July? >> > > >> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ >> > > >> > > Yup. June 2015 and July 2015 join September 2014 as 'dead' months in >> > > the archives. :-) >> > > >> > > On 12/2/14, David Gerard wrote: >> > > > On 2 December 2014 at 10:12, Amir E. Aharoni >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> I kinda like the separation between cross-project and >> cross-language >> > > >> issues >> > > >> on Wikimedia-L and the discussion about English Wikipedia, but if >> > nobody >> > > >> is >> > > >> interested in the existence of this list, I won't be very sad if it >> > shut >> > > >> down. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Despite the lengthy moderator list, I'm about it for actually >> > > > bothering. Not that there's much to do. >> > > > >> > > > In the world of mailing lists, en:wp discussion tends to happen on >> > > > wikimedia-l, if at all. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> I'd shut down Wikipedia-L first, however - that one is really dead, >> > > except >> > > >> occasional people who pop in by mistake every few months. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > +1 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > - d. >> > > > >> > > > ___ >> > > > WikiEN-l mailing list >> > > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > > > >> > > >> > > ___ >> > > WikiEN-l mailing list >> > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > > >> > ___ >> > WikiEN-l mailing list >> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > >> ___ >> WikiEN-l mailing list >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Future of this mailing list
Leave the list open! There are lots of important people subscribed, and you never know when an interesting conversation will pop up. I'm the present moderator of a mailing list that's been active since 1988. When an interesting conversation starts, it's fascinating to see all the famous people chime in. That could happen here. Best, On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Risker wrote: > I've given this some thought, and pretty much come to the conclusion that > it would be better to make this list "historic" rather than keep it open. > This is a reflection on the fact that almost none of the subscribers seem > to use it, that there are almost no posts to it, that it can easily become > a black hole where a "new" subscriber is unaware that the likelihood > they'll get a response to their email, or one that is accurate or > actionable, is very small. > > In an ideal world, this list would be active and lively and chock full of > interesting discussions. That's not happening at all. It is better to > consider this "legacy communication" and to lock it down (thus relieving > the responsibilities of the probably one or two list admins who are > actually moderating through the one real message out of thousands of spam > messages). It is obvious that this list is no longer serving the purpose > it once had. I'm not sure exactly where people are going to communicate > now - there are lots of comments for a lot of blog posts, I understand > facebook gets a fair number of responses, and some of the on-wiki > noticeboard are quite active. But this list is no longer reaching the > target community. > > Risker/Anne > > On 11 August 2015 at 17:16, Pine W wrote: > > > I don't see much harm in keeping this list alive in a low-activity state. > > > > Pine > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Carcharoth > > > wrote: > > > > > Time to once again consider the future of this list and maybe also > > > that of Wikipedia-L (as David suggested back in December)? > > > > > > I think I'm right in saying that apart from this list being used for > > > some discussion of block appeals, nothing was posted here for all of > > > June and July? > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ > > > > > > Yup. June 2015 and July 2015 join September 2014 as 'dead' months in > > > the archives. :-) > > > > > > On 12/2/14, David Gerard wrote: > > > > On 2 December 2014 at 10:12, Amir E. Aharoni > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> I kinda like the separation between cross-project and cross-language > > > >> issues > > > >> on Wikimedia-L and the discussion about English Wikipedia, but if > > nobody > > > >> is > > > >> interested in the existence of this list, I won't be very sad if it > > shut > > > >> down. > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite the lengthy moderator list, I'm about it for actually > > > > bothering. Not that there's much to do. > > > > > > > > In the world of mailing lists, en:wp discussion tends to happen on > > > > wikimedia-l, if at all. > > > > > > > > > > > >> I'd shut down Wikipedia-L first, however - that one is really dead, > > > except > > > >> occasional people who pop in by mistake every few months. > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > WikiEN-l mailing list > > > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > WikiEN-l mailing list > > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > ___ > > WikiEN-l mailing list > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Future of this mailing list
I think it's basically just me occasionally clearing the mod queue. I concur - mothball this list. On 13 August 2015 at 14:18, Risker wrote: > I've given this some thought, and pretty much come to the conclusion that > it would be better to make this list "historic" rather than keep it open. > This is a reflection on the fact that almost none of the subscribers seem > to use it, that there are almost no posts to it, that it can easily become > a black hole where a "new" subscriber is unaware that the likelihood > they'll get a response to their email, or one that is accurate or > actionable, is very small. > > In an ideal world, this list would be active and lively and chock full of > interesting discussions. That's not happening at all. It is better to > consider this "legacy communication" and to lock it down (thus relieving > the responsibilities of the probably one or two list admins who are > actually moderating through the one real message out of thousands of spam > messages). It is obvious that this list is no longer serving the purpose > it once had. I'm not sure exactly where people are going to communicate > now - there are lots of comments for a lot of blog posts, I understand > facebook gets a fair number of responses, and some of the on-wiki > noticeboard are quite active. But this list is no longer reaching the > target community. > > Risker/Anne > > On 11 August 2015 at 17:16, Pine W wrote: > >> I don't see much harm in keeping this list alive in a low-activity state. >> >> Pine >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Carcharoth >> wrote: >> >> > Time to once again consider the future of this list and maybe also >> > that of Wikipedia-L (as David suggested back in December)? >> > >> > I think I'm right in saying that apart from this list being used for >> > some discussion of block appeals, nothing was posted here for all of >> > June and July? >> > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ >> > >> > Yup. June 2015 and July 2015 join September 2014 as 'dead' months in >> > the archives. :-) >> > >> > On 12/2/14, David Gerard wrote: >> > > On 2 December 2014 at 10:12, Amir E. Aharoni >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > >> I kinda like the separation between cross-project and cross-language >> > >> issues >> > >> on Wikimedia-L and the discussion about English Wikipedia, but if >> nobody >> > >> is >> > >> interested in the existence of this list, I won't be very sad if it >> shut >> > >> down. >> > > >> > > >> > > Despite the lengthy moderator list, I'm about it for actually >> > > bothering. Not that there's much to do. >> > > >> > > In the world of mailing lists, en:wp discussion tends to happen on >> > > wikimedia-l, if at all. >> > > >> > > >> > >> I'd shut down Wikipedia-L first, however - that one is really dead, >> > except >> > >> occasional people who pop in by mistake every few months. >> > > >> > > >> > > +1 >> > > >> > > >> > > - d. >> > > >> > > ___ >> > > WikiEN-l mailing list >> > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > > >> > >> > ___ >> > WikiEN-l mailing list >> > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > >> ___ >> WikiEN-l mailing list >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Future of this mailing list
I've given this some thought, and pretty much come to the conclusion that it would be better to make this list "historic" rather than keep it open. This is a reflection on the fact that almost none of the subscribers seem to use it, that there are almost no posts to it, that it can easily become a black hole where a "new" subscriber is unaware that the likelihood they'll get a response to their email, or one that is accurate or actionable, is very small. In an ideal world, this list would be active and lively and chock full of interesting discussions. That's not happening at all. It is better to consider this "legacy communication" and to lock it down (thus relieving the responsibilities of the probably one or two list admins who are actually moderating through the one real message out of thousands of spam messages). It is obvious that this list is no longer serving the purpose it once had. I'm not sure exactly where people are going to communicate now - there are lots of comments for a lot of blog posts, I understand facebook gets a fair number of responses, and some of the on-wiki noticeboard are quite active. But this list is no longer reaching the target community. Risker/Anne On 11 August 2015 at 17:16, Pine W wrote: > I don't see much harm in keeping this list alive in a low-activity state. > > Pine > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Carcharoth > wrote: > > > Time to once again consider the future of this list and maybe also > > that of Wikipedia-L (as David suggested back in December)? > > > > I think I'm right in saying that apart from this list being used for > > some discussion of block appeals, nothing was posted here for all of > > June and July? > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ > > > > Yup. June 2015 and July 2015 join September 2014 as 'dead' months in > > the archives. :-) > > > > On 12/2/14, David Gerard wrote: > > > On 2 December 2014 at 10:12, Amir E. Aharoni > > > wrote: > > > > > >> I kinda like the separation between cross-project and cross-language > > >> issues > > >> on Wikimedia-L and the discussion about English Wikipedia, but if > nobody > > >> is > > >> interested in the existence of this list, I won't be very sad if it > shut > > >> down. > > > > > > > > > Despite the lengthy moderator list, I'm about it for actually > > > bothering. Not that there's much to do. > > > > > > In the world of mailing lists, en:wp discussion tends to happen on > > > wikimedia-l, if at all. > > > > > > > > >> I'd shut down Wikipedia-L first, however - that one is really dead, > > except > > >> occasional people who pop in by mistake every few months. > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > ___ > > > WikiEN-l mailing list > > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > > > ___ > > WikiEN-l mailing list > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: [arbcom-appeals-en] Appeal by Chealer
Salut Benoit, On 2015-08-07 09:14, Ben Salvidrim wrote: BASC is intended to be a venue to appeal bans specifically and not blocks, but it still sometimes responds to block appeals because an indef-block can be considered a "de facto" ban, albeit one that did not require prior community consensus (or an ArbCom decision). Despite its name and its communications, the BASC is also intended to review blocks, as confirmed by the lead of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Ban_Appeals_Subcommittee/About Since this is not an actual community ban, it should IMO be appropriate to process any unblock request normally on-wiki as an administrator. Perhaps community comment can be sought but it does not seem to be like that would be mandatory. This is regardless of BASC's response (which, if it must be said, seems to have opined as to the validity of the block without commenting on an actual block appeal). Indeed, the one mail I received from the BASC which I have not forwarded accepted the appeal: Thank you for writing to us. The Ban Appeals Subcommittee will now consider your appeal and report its decision to you in due course. The appeal result is confusing, but the BASC clearly indicated that it found the block complied with policy. ~Benoit / Salvidrim [Sent from my Nexus 5] On Aug 7, 2015 9:03 AM, Kevin Gorman wrote: I will say on the face of it, I'm pretty disappointed at how this looks. Chealer's block record was not very long - yes, counting JzG's he received three recent blocks, but there are plenty of people who do little productive who have worse records. And frankly, two of those blocks were for trivial reasons - 3rr, and for editing an archive? I don't think I've ever seen anyone blocked for a week for editing an archive. More so: I'm disappointed that although Chealer requested diffs of what exact part of his behavior was disruptive, he only received one link from anyone. Surely we can do better than this? JzG's initial block offer explicitly indicated a willingness to lift the ban if Chealer altered his behavior... but then JzG never posted on his talk page again. Moreover, JzG's initial block statement was insufficient - you don't get to indef a long time community member and just say the reasons are "obvious". Once I have more time to examine this block later today, I'm going to be tempted to restore Chealer's talkpage access, because JzG's initial block offer explicitly included an offer to unblock him if he changed his behavior, and that obviously can't be done if he can't even talk. I'll also ping JzG to the page because I'd hope the initial blocking administrator would be the person to work this out, but if he doesn't show up and Chealer's 'record of disruption' seems like something where he can agree to a set of conditions that will mitigate any future disruption, I'll be awfully tempted to act in JzG's stead in implementing his offer That's certainly not an offer that can be implemented with TPA and JzG MIA. This could be a perfectly good block. But JzG's initial block notice and subsequent discussion on the page don't make it obvious that it's a good block. I'll be reviewing the entire situation later including all of Chealer's recent edits (I've only looked at the talk page and block log atm,) and may find it to be an entirely good block, but if not I intend to restore Chealer's talk page access, ping JzG to the page so that we can discuss JzG's initial offer, and if JzG doesn't show up (to me, it's weird to use "you know what you did" block message on anyone but vandals,) given that JzG initially showed a willingness to unblock CHealer, if I work out a set of conditions that I'm confident will mitigate any future problems, I'll be awfully tempted to unblock Chealer myself. (And again, I may find an indefinite block totally appropriate here - it's just not at all obvious from the block message or from future discusssion on the page.) Even though this has already gone to BASC, I'm pretty sure these actions would be within my authority as an administrator - someone correct me if I'm wrong please. Best, Kevin Gorman On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:43 AM, Filipus Klutiero wrote: I am forwarding the last mail promised in https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2015-August/54.html This is the last mail in the thread on JzG's case (regarding WP:EXPLAINBLOCK violations). It quotes the 2 other mails in that thread (as well as the original report). The only mail from the BASC in this thread is entirely quoted, except for pre-written paragraphs. Forwarded Message Subject:Fwd: Re: [arbcom-appeals-en] Appeal by Chealer Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 13:38:20 -0400 From: Filipus Klutiero To: arbco...@lists.wikimedia.org Hi, During the first week of June, I was told by Chris McKenny that the Ban Appeals Subcommittee considered User:JzG's 2015-04-13 block as policy-compliant. As can be seen in the fo
