Re: [WikiEN-l] Lies, damned lies, and statistics
geni Seth Finkelstein wrote: It's also pretty common for those two type to have conflicts, and that usually ends with the business/marketing type working-over the academic/creative type. Wikipedia is NOT an original story there :-(. Of course the problem with that description was that Larry was involved in conflicts with other wikipedians. And Jimbo has been involved in conflicts too (note I'm not talking about V-wag stuff, but higher-level matters). Don't think the present is somehow inevitable. If Sanger had stayed on, those early conflicts would be minimized or forgotten. Depends on if Google does something to boost that sort of site. (I think the *real*, crucial, irreplaceable, founder of Wikipedia, is Google) No. Looking at yahoo and MSN it's pretty clear that anything close to a normal search algorithm will tend to favor wikipedia for certain types of searches. Yahoo and Microsoft have copied Google's weighting and factors somewhat, in what seems to be a deliberate strategy that people have been trained by Google to expect that sort of result, and it would be too risky to deviate radically. But this does not prove any normal search algorithm will do that. Many sites - Open Directory, technorati, blog aggregators - have found themselves ranked highly for a time ... and then not. One reason I think projects such as _Citizendium_ are important is that they provide at least some practical counter-argument to the monopolistic tendencies of Wikipedia-hype. Which comes back to the original question about the success of _Citizendium_, and that being bound up in some very subtle decisions about Google's algorithm. Speaking here just as a very interested observer, apart from matters of personal injustice or formal relevance, there's many issues at the bottom of this about Wikipedia itself. ... Except several years behind the times. The community has dealt with the issue and from what I've seen Jimbo has been back peddling of late. Well, let's see if this issue has indeed been dealt with. It's only been a few days from the most recent skirmish. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer Web site - http://sethf.com/ Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/ ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] An open letter to Jimmy Wales
Oskar Sigvardsson If you want free speech, use your blog. You can say whatever you want there. In watching this incident unfold, I've been impressed regarding the way that the take-it-to-where-Jimbo-*is* strategy appears to be *right*, as a matter of effectiveness. Despite the limited perceptions of those who are quick to deem critics as trolls, I'm fascinated by the group dynamics and sociology of Wikipedia. Now, phrases like free speech can lead to knee-jerking as people rush to recite cliches. Yada, yada, First-Amendment-is-government, private-legal-rights, blah, blah. Like the old joke, we should just number those arguments, so people could simply say #17 or #23, and get them out of the way. Been there, done that, got the flame-wars. We're really talking about qualities like ethics and fairness in pursuit of justice (very vague words, I know). What's so interesting in specific here, is that only now has Larry Sanger's evidence reached some of the relatively tiny number of core editors who are highly influential in shaping the relevant Wikipedia articles. And apparently only because it was put in the places those editors read, over many formalistic and legalistic objections (WP:THISPOLICYMEANSWHATISAYITDOES). That is, on his website, the right people *DID* *NOT* *READ* *IT*. You could link to it. You could have a _Guardian_ columnist repeatedly refer to it in articles about Wikipedia 1/2 :-). You could bring it up over and over in various comments. *DIDN'T* *MATTER*. Only a very particular setting was effective in this case. It should be needless to say, but this is significant for building an encyclopedia. More broadly, it's a lesson in, let's say, information flow, that has some important implications for trying to ensure accuracy. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer Web site - http://sethf.com/ Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/ ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
