subject:"\[WikiEN\-l\] Fwd\: \[Foundation\-l\] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day\?"

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?

2011-02-22 Thread Peter Coombe

I like what's been done so far. My day job is actually for a publisher
selling computer help for beginners, so thought I'd share a few things
we've learnt:

* Address people personally, and try to make them feel included. This
is why {{helpme}} is a great invention.

* Bullet points are useful, but prose is engaging too. If you make
prose interesting and relevant, believe it or not people *will read
it*, even if it's relatively long.

* Screenshots (especially labelled ones) are great for newbies. It's
remarkably easy to overlook parts of the interface.

* Videos are even better, plus they can have a more personal touch :-)

* Easily readable text is more important than fancy design. That
usually means black, and of a reasonable size. Too many bluelinks in a
passage make it harder to read, and can be distracting. Short line
lengths are nice too.

And thoughts on what we've got so far:

* Redesign: Seems pretty good, improves on the original which itself
has already had quite a lot of work.

* Polish version: Not sure it's a huge help really, throwing them into
creating a userpage without much guidance. If this is used it might be
a good idea to prefill the edit page a bit to help them.

* Options: To be honest I found it rather confusing. Some boxes to
separate the options better would be nice.

* Video1: This is nice, good to see something a bit different.

* Easy steps: I definitely prefer this to the Options one

* Bookshelf: The idea of having a book intro is great, and it provides
the opportunity to do some really nice design. But there are parts of
the text in this which are almost unreadable.

* mod2 (FT2's version): The overall design is nice, and it's laid out
logically. I'd fix the header colours though.

* Video walkthrough: I think this is my favourite. Good job Sage.

Anyway I'll have a crack at making my own version tonight.

Pete / the wub

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?

2011-02-22 Thread Lennart Guldbrandsson

Great with so many ideas and comments. Feel free to edit the pages or, even
better, create your own versions. They don't have to be that impressive now.
We can work together to make them better once we knows which way to go.

I will start testing the first one in a few hours. I just realised that I
should forwarn people on the System messages changes and feel that we can
wait a little to gather consensus.

Best wishes,

Lennart




2011/2/22 Peter Coombe thewub.w...@googlemail.com

 I like what's been done so far. My day job is actually for a publisher
 selling computer help for beginners, so thought I'd share a few things
 we've learnt:

 * Address people personally, and try to make them feel included. This
 is why {{helpme}} is a great invention.

 * Bullet points are useful, but prose is engaging too. If you make
 prose interesting and relevant, believe it or not people *will read
 it*, even if it's relatively long.

 * Screenshots (especially labelled ones) are great for newbies. It's
 remarkably easy to overlook parts of the interface.

 * Videos are even better, plus they can have a more personal touch :-)

 * Easily readable text is more important than fancy design. That
 usually means black, and of a reasonable size. Too many bluelinks in a
 passage make it harder to read, and can be distracting. Short line
 lengths are nice too.

 And thoughts on what we've got so far:

 * Redesign: Seems pretty good, improves on the original which itself
 has already had quite a lot of work.

 * Polish version: Not sure it's a huge help really, throwing them into
 creating a userpage without much guidance. If this is used it might be
 a good idea to prefill the edit page a bit to help them.

 * Options: To be honest I found it rather confusing. Some boxes to
 separate the options better would be nice.

 * Video1: This is nice, good to see something a bit different.

 * Easy steps: I definitely prefer this to the Options one

 * Bookshelf: The idea of having a book intro is great, and it provides
 the opportunity to do some really nice design. But there are parts of
 the text in this which are almost unreadable.

 * mod2 (FT2's version): The overall design is nice, and it's laid out
 logically. I'd fix the header colours though.

 * Video walkthrough: I think this is my favourite. Good job Sage.

 Anyway I'll have a crack at making my own version tonight.

 Pete / the wub

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Lennart Guldbrandsson, Fellow of the Wikimedia Foundation and chair of
Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för
Wikimedia Sverige
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?

2011-02-22 Thread MuZemike

On 2/22/2011 4:20 AM, Peter Coombe wrote:

 * Screenshots (especially labelled ones) are great for newbies. It's
 remarkably easy to overlook parts of the interface.


Pages like this come to mind: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page (soon to be 
moved to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing).

-MuZemike

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?

2011-02-21 Thread Lennart Guldbrandsson

Just a note about the results we will get, so there are no
misunderstandings:

It will be the one that new users respond best to (which start them
editing), and not necessarily the ones Wikipedians like the best.

And feel free to create better versions yourself.

Best wishes,

Lennart

2011/2/21 Elias Friedman elipo...@gmail.com

 Definitely NOT the bookshelf version!

 Whatever version you go with, DO include the link to those instructional
 videos. I didn't even know we had those!

 Sent from my Droid2
 Elias Friedman A.S., CCEMT-P
 אליהו מתתיהו בן צבי
 elipo...@gmail.com
 On Feb 20, 2011 5:28 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
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Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för
Wikimedia Sverige
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?

2011-02-21 Thread Lennart Guldbrandsson

Of course we want them keep editing, not just starting. :-) And there are
several measures we can have for success, but Sue Gardner and several others
have spoken about the focus this year. One measure that have come up is that
we look at the newcomers' first 100 edits. After that they should be
prepared for what Wikipedia is. And to get them to actually make 100 edits
we may need to handhold them better.

But let's step back a bit. I think we need to think of this in several
steps:

1 let non-Wikipedians know that they actually *can* edit (more people than
you imagine do not actually know that *they* can edit Wikipedia, even if
they know that *you* can edit)
2 encourage them to start editing
3 not scare them away

What this project is focused on is not step 1 or 3, but parts of 2. My
Fellowship is after all only 6 months long and we need to have some limits
to it.

The Account Creation is something fairly simple to improve. We change some
pages and measure what effect that has, and pick whichever change has the
best result. The other things are much more difficult, and may even *gasp*
require some soulsearching among the regular Wikipedians to see what we can
do better. So let's start with something easier and make more versions of
the landing pages.

Best wishes,

Lennart


2011/2/21 Elias Friedman elipo...@gmail.com

 Okay then, let me ask how do you intend to measure start them editing?
 Raw edit counts? Over what period of time? Will what namespace matter?

 Frankly I'm not as interested in getting new people *started* editing as I
 am I in *keeping* them editing. Many new editors get frustrated because they
 don't understand basic rules like proper sourcing and citation. Many are not
 good at reading our written rules - that's why I was excited to see those
 tutorial videos. I really think they can bridge the gap for the majority of
 people who don't do well with just RTFM. That's why I say that at least a
 link to those videos should be on *every* version of that landing page.

 Sent from my Droid2
 Elias Friedman A.S., CCEMT-P
 אליהו מתתיהו בן צבי
 elipo...@gmail.com
 On Feb 20, 2011 6:33 PM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com
 wrote:




-- 
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Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för
Wikimedia Sverige
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?

2011-02-21 Thread FT2

I'm not usually one for graphic design, so this could probably do with
improving and relevant links adding.

I've added a version that could be helpful at
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/mod2

What I'm hoping to address are:

1. Layouts original version and redesign are too close to wall of
text for many newcomers. Even though they are simple short bullet lists
with icons, I'm concerned they'll skip it. A better layout and a few brief
bullets may do better and also be more informative.

2. The audience is people who want to get involved, so an overview they
can come back to might be helpful. I have assumed this page is linked from
the toolkit so they can always find it.

3. It might be better to have a link for editing, and save the mention
of policies there. At the start a user needs to know the basics, that some
stuff will be ok and some won't, and click here to find out which. Then
they are reading it *by choice* and it'll probably be more sticky as a
result.

Words like policies may tend to overwhelm or frighten many of those we
want to engage.

4. The section for readers also includes* Reading, or want to make
improvements and corrections? *The *unstated thought *is that a reader
will also be someone who might want to make a small correction. Gut feel
says that a major route is readers who are then tempted to make their first
correction, or who need to know they *can *think of it. I'd like to see
the effect of including making a small improvement or correction *as
part of info for end-users*, not just keeping it separate.

Not technically accurate but may be effective this way, as editing
could be felt as overwhelming (initially) where make a small correction
may be perceived as empowering. Many people may think someone should fix
that and despite all our pages, not fully realize the someone is allowed
to be *them*.

5. *I have not put links in yet.* I would not make individual words,
lines, or sentences a link. Link proliferation is a distraction, we found
that out in the record 2010 fundraiser. Make each section (except the last)
to be *one* link clickable anywhere. Unfortunately (bug
18640https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18460)
the a href... html tag can't be used yet in markup, otherwise I'd make the
entirety of each cell a single link to some (short) relevant subpage.

I'd actually like it done via a popup, that appears when you click a cell
for information. That's more classy and suited to the richer interface of
other modern websites, but outside my skills. Anyone else know where I can
find a basic click this and get a dismissible popup DIV class? :)

6. Should contain something interesting and engaging too :)

Feedback and any design-related questions welcomed!
Not sure where to link this from/to though.

FT2
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?

2011-02-21 Thread Lennart Guldbrandsson

This is good. I'll make sure we'll test this as well.

Best wishes,

Lennart

2011/2/21 FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com

I'm not usually one for graphic design, so this could probably do with
improving and relevant links adding.

I've added a version that could be helpful at

http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/mod2

What I'm hoping to address are:

1. Layouts original version and redesign are too close to wall of
text for many newcomers. Even though they are simple short bullet lists
with icons, I'm concerned they'll skip it. A better layout and a few
brief
bullets may do better and also be more informative.

2. The audience is people who want to get involved, so an overview they
can come back to might be helpful. I have assumed this page is linked
from
the toolkit so they can always find it.

3. It might be better to have a link for editing, and save the mention
of policies there. At the start a user needs to know the basics, that
some
stuff will be ok and some won't, and click here to find out which. Then
they are reading it *by choice* and it'll probably be more sticky as a
result.

Words like policies may tend to overwhelm or frighten many of those we
want to engage.

4. The section for readers also includes* Reading, or want to make
improvements and corrections? *The *unstated thought *is that a reader
will also be someone who might want to make a small correction. Gut feel
says that a major route is readers who are then tempted to make their
first
correction, or who need to know they *can *think of it. I'd like to see
the effect of including making a small improvement or correction *as
part of info for end-users*, not just keeping it separate.

Not technically accurate but may be effective this way, as editing
could be felt as overwhelming (initially) where make a small correction
may be perceived as empowering. Many people may think someone should
fix
that and despite all our pages, not fully realize the someone is
allowed
to be *them*.

5. *I have not put links in yet.* I would not make individual words,
lines, or sentences a link. Link proliferation is a distraction, we found
that out in the record 2010 fundraiser. Make each section (except the
last)
to be *one* link clickable anywhere. Unfortunately (bug
18640https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18460)
the a href... html tag can't be used yet in markup, otherwise I'd make
the
entirety of each cell a single link to some (short) relevant subpage.

I'd actually like it done via a popup, that appears when you click a cell
for information. That's more classy and suited to the richer interface of
other modern websites, but outside my skills. Anyone else know where I
can
find a basic click this and get a dismissible popup DIV class? :)

6. Should contain something interesting and engaging too :)

Feedback and any design-related questions welcomed!
Not sure where to link this from/to though.

FT2
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Wikimedia Sverige // Wikimedia Foundation-stipendiat och ordförande för
Wikimedia Sverige
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] Do you want to write pages that thousands of people see every day?

2011-02-21 Thread Sage Ross

Since it's a WMF holiday and I can do whatever I want with my time, I
made one too. ;)

http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Account_Creation_Improvement_Project/Testing_content/Landing_page/Video_walkthrough

Like FT2, I welcome any edits to make it look better. And feedback
about the content is of course welcome too. I can always do more
takes with revised scripts.

-Sage

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Lennart Guldbrandsson
wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote:
This is good. I'll make sure we'll test this as well.