Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
Daniel R. Tobias wrote: > On 17 Jan 2010 09:13:08, Fred Bauder wrote: > > >>> I'm so torn. On the one hand, the hypocrisy is blinding - filtering >>> its search results is exactly what Google was doing in China. On the >>> other hand, it's Encyclopedia Dramatica... >>> >>> -- >>> gwern >>> >> Oh, they're cool; shine it on... >> >> Fred Bauder >> > > But they're just implementing your brilliant ArbCom decision of a few > years ago, which launched the BADSITES Wars! > > Which we certainly want to rerun. No, wait, three people want to go through it all again ... And anyone who read the press cuttings would definitely bring this up on every subsequent occasion. No, wait, that's hacks giving themselves 30 minutes to prepare for an interview ... And googling "Badsites" shows this is a huge topic of wide interest. No, wait, the top hit is in D. Tobias's userspace ... Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
James Alexander wrote: > I think the biggest thing was that Google thought that if we were > working with China and going along with their filtering they should be > leaving us alone. So far, so standard for Western corporations in Asia. "Oh, you mean we have to understand the culture as well as the market?" The point being that the implied division makes more sense to one side than to the other. Well, fortunately, WP appears to be able to get away with its "non-business" model. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
On 17 Jan 2010 09:13:08, Fred Bauder wrote: > > I'm so torn. On the one hand, the hypocrisy is blinding - filtering > > its search results is exactly what Google was doing in China. On the > > other hand, it's Encyclopedia Dramatica... > > > > -- > > gwern > > Oh, they're cool; shine it on... > > Fred Bauder But they're just implementing your brilliant ArbCom decision of a few years ago, which launched the BADSITES Wars! -- == Dan == Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/ Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/ Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/ ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Gwern Branwen wrote: > > Google has agreed to take down links to a website that promotes racist > views of indigenous Australians. > > Aboriginal man Steve Hodder-Watt recently discovered the US-based site by > searching "Aboriginal and Encyclopedia" in the search engine. > > He tried to modify the entry on Encyclopedia Dramatica, a satirical and > extremely racist version of Wikipedia, but was blocked from doing so. > ... > > Mr Newhouse said Google agreed to take the link down after he filed an > official complaint to the Australian Human Rights Commission. > > "Lo and behold they agreed last night to take down the sites." > > > http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-agrees-to-take-down-racist-site-20100115-maxd.html > > I'm so torn. On the one hand, the hypocrisy is blinding - filtering > its search results is exactly what Google was doing in China. On the > other hand, it's Encyclopedia Dramatica... > If censoring some things (like "the most offensive sorts of racial vilification you could possibly find"), and refusing to censor other things (like an historical account of a pro-democracy demonstration), is hypocrisy, then let me be the first to say that I'm in favor of hypocrisy. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
To be honest I don't totally see it as hypocrisy, inconsistent? Perhaps a bit, I actually saw the Google statement as less "we don't support censorship" and more of a "you broke the implicit (or explicit I don't know) agreement. I think the biggest thing was that Google thought that if we were working with China and going along with their filtering they should be leaving us alone. Instead they decided to attack us and therefore we can no longer trust them. User:Jamesofur James Alexander james.alexan...@rochester.edu Wiki:jameso...@gmail.com 100 gmail invites and no one to give them to :( let me know if you want one :) On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Christopher Grant < chrisgrantm...@gmail.com> wrote: > (from smh article) > >Mr Newhouse believes the site would be filtered under the Federal > Government's mandatory filter. > > The plot thickens... Sure their articles racist and are basically designed > offend everyone, however I personally don't feel conformable with the > government being able to block a site like ED. > > -- Chris > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Gwern Branwen wrote: > > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Anthony wrote: > > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Anthony wrote: > > >> If censoring some things (like "the most offensive sorts of racial > > >> vilification you could possibly find"), and refusing to censor other > > things > > >> (like an historical account of a pro-democracy demonstration), is > > hypocrisy, > > >> then let me be the first to say that I'm in favor of hypocrisy. > > > > Silly Anthony. Don't you know that China was simply asking Google to > > comply with local laws against morals-destroying smut, the propaganda > > of life-destroying evil cults, and the subversion of mass-murdering > > terrorists? > > > > What's some peculiar racist humor compared with *that*? Strange moral > > standards you have there. > > > > > But then, treating one country differently from another country is not > > > hypocrisy. Treating one situation differently from another situation > is > > not > > > hypocrisy. Looking at the relevant part of the Google statement, it > was > > > this: "We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring > our > > > results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be > > discussing > > > with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an > > > unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all." > > > http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html > > > > > > It was a statement specifically about the Chinese government, and about > > > results on google.cn. Google did not claim or even imply that it was > > > stopping all censorship altogether. So I don't see the hypocrisy. > > > > It is, at the very least, inconsistent. One set of rules for the > > Chinese (and the world), and another set for the Australians. What > > difference is there between the 2 situations that justifies this? If > > there is no difference, then it's a plain contradiction. (Oh, you > > happen to agree with one and not the other? I see...) > > > > -- > > gwern > > > > ___ > > WikiEN-l mailing list > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
(from smh article) >Mr Newhouse believes the site would be filtered under the Federal Government's mandatory filter. The plot thickens... Sure their articles racist and are basically designed offend everyone, however I personally don't feel conformable with the government being able to block a site like ED. -- Chris On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Gwern Branwen wrote: > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Anthony wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Anthony wrote: > >> If censoring some things (like "the most offensive sorts of racial > >> vilification you could possibly find"), and refusing to censor other > things > >> (like an historical account of a pro-democracy demonstration), is > hypocrisy, > >> then let me be the first to say that I'm in favor of hypocrisy. > > Silly Anthony. Don't you know that China was simply asking Google to > comply with local laws against morals-destroying smut, the propaganda > of life-destroying evil cults, and the subversion of mass-murdering > terrorists? > > What's some peculiar racist humor compared with *that*? Strange moral > standards you have there. > > > But then, treating one country differently from another country is not > > hypocrisy. Treating one situation differently from another situation is > not > > hypocrisy. Looking at the relevant part of the Google statement, it was > > this: "We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our > > results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be > discussing > > with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an > > unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all." > > http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html > > > > It was a statement specifically about the Chinese government, and about > > results on google.cn. Google did not claim or even imply that it was > > stopping all censorship altogether. So I don't see the hypocrisy. > > It is, at the very least, inconsistent. One set of rules for the > Chinese (and the world), and another set for the Australians. What > difference is there between the 2 situations that justifies this? If > there is no difference, then it's a plain contradiction. (Oh, you > happen to agree with one and not the other? I see...) > > -- > gwern > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Anthony wrote: > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Anthony wrote: >> If censoring some things (like "the most offensive sorts of racial >> vilification you could possibly find"), and refusing to censor other things >> (like an historical account of a pro-democracy demonstration), is hypocrisy, >> then let me be the first to say that I'm in favor of hypocrisy. Silly Anthony. Don't you know that China was simply asking Google to comply with local laws against morals-destroying smut, the propaganda of life-destroying evil cults, and the subversion of mass-murdering terrorists? What's some peculiar racist humor compared with *that*? Strange moral standards you have there. > But then, treating one country differently from another country is not > hypocrisy. Treating one situation differently from another situation is not > hypocrisy. Looking at the relevant part of the Google statement, it was > this: "We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our > results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing > with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an > unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all." > http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html > > It was a statement specifically about the Chinese government, and about > results on google.cn. Google did not claim or even imply that it was > stopping all censorship altogether. So I don't see the hypocrisy. It is, at the very least, inconsistent. One set of rules for the Chinese (and the world), and another set for the Australians. What difference is there between the 2 situations that justifies this? If there is no difference, then it's a plain contradiction. (Oh, you happen to agree with one and not the other? I see...) -- gwern ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
>> Google has agreed to take down links to a website that promotes racist >> views of indigenous Australians. >> Aboriginal man Steve Hodder-Watt recently discovered the US-based site >> by searching "Aboriginal and Encyclopedia" in the search engine. >> He tried to modify the entry on Encyclopedia Dramatica, a satirical and >> extremely racist version of Wikipedia, but was blocked from doing so. > ... >> Mr Newhouse said Google agreed to take the link down after he filed an >> official complaint to the Australian Human Rights Commission. >> "Lo and behold they agreed last night to take down the sites." > > http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-agrees-to-take-down-racist-site-20100115-maxd.html > > I'm so torn. On the one hand, the hypocrisy is blinding - filtering > its search results is exactly what Google was doing in China. On the > other hand, it's Encyclopedia Dramatica... > > -- > gwern Oh, they're cool; shine it on... Fred Bauder ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Gwern Branwen wrote: >> Google has agreed to take down links to a website that promotes racist views >> of indigenous Australians. This story says the SMH one is misleading: http://www.inquisitr.com/57105/aus-media-gets-ed-story-wrong/ The statement from Google in that story is "We respond to complaints and review them by reference to local law. In this case, we have removed the search results on google.com.au linking to the pages identified to us by a legal request. In the interest of transparency, the search results now provide notice that pages have been removed in response to a legal request and in their place is a link to Chilling Effects." The complaint was sent it the Australian Human Rights Commission, and it appears they decided the links were against Australian law and asked Google to remove them. -Sage ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Google bows to censorship
> Google has agreed to take down links to a website that promotes racist views > of indigenous Australians. > Aboriginal man Steve Hodder-Watt recently discovered the US-based site by > searching "Aboriginal and Encyclopedia" in the search engine. > He tried to modify the entry on Encyclopedia Dramatica, a satirical and > extremely racist version of Wikipedia, but was blocked from doing so. ... > Mr Newhouse said Google agreed to take the link down after he filed an > official complaint to the Australian Human Rights Commission. > "Lo and behold they agreed last night to take down the sites." http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-agrees-to-take-down-racist-site-20100115-maxd.html I'm so torn. On the one hand, the hypocrisy is blinding - filtering its search results is exactly what Google was doing in China. On the other hand, it's Encyclopedia Dramatica... -- gwern ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
