[WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Bod Notbod wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Charles
> Matthews wrote:
>
>> The introduction of Talk pages was, it should not be forgotten, one of
>> the most brilliant innovations of the early days of Wikipedia.
>
> Indeed. A very intelligent friend of mine said he often finds the talk
> page as interesting as the article itself. He described them as a
> 'Talmudic commentary'. I keep meaning to make sure that I always read
> the talk page after scanning an article but I don't seem to have
> implanted that idea in my head with sufficient rigour yet, I tend to
> forget.
In the old days, I used to always open a tab when the talk page link
wasn't red. Thanks to projects etc., I can no longer do this since
half the time I'll just find a bunch of template spam.
What I've done is inveigle a JS coder to write the following for my monobook.js:
// load talk page inline
if(wgNamespaceNumber==0) addOnloadHook(getTalkPage)
function getTalkPage() { var tlink =
document.getElementById('ca-talk'); if(tlink.className == 'new')
return; var url = tlink.getElementsByTagName('a')[0].href; url +=
(url.indexOf('?')==-1) ? '?action=render' : '&action=render' ; var tp
= document.createElement('div'); tp.style.border = '1px solid blue';
tp.style.margin = '.5em 0'; tp.style.padding = '.35em';
tp.style.height = '128em'; tp.style.overflow = 'auto'; tp.id =
'ajax-talkpage'; tp.appendChild(document.createTextNode('fetching talk
page...')); document.getElementById('bodyContent').appendChild(tp);
getXML(url,getTalkPageStateChange);}
function getTalkPageStateChange() { switch (getReq.readyState) { case 4:
if (getReq.status == 200) { var tp =
document.getElementById('ajax-talkpage'); clearNode(tp); var txt =
getReq.responseText; tp.innerHTML = txt;} else {
tp.appendChild(document.createTextNode('** Problem ** ' +
getReq.statusText))
}
break;}
}
At the bottom of every article is a second frame, which loads the talk
page. When I've read to the bottom, a glance tells me whether the talk
page is dross or whether there're things worth reading, and I can
continue scrolling.
It doesn't hurt performance much at all. (Sometimes there are so many
templates on the bottom of an article and the top of the talk page
that even this feature doesn't help much, though...)
--
gwern
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 6:28 AM, Charles Matthews wrote: >> But I imagine this kind of proposal is fairly common: >> >> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13573 >> > The introduction of Talk pages was, it should not be forgotten, one of > the most brilliant innovations of the early days of Wikipedia. The idea > that the Talk page is specifically for discussions aimed at improving > the article in its current state is actually a pillar of how we work. > Feedback of the "like it/hate it" kind (which is what voting would be) > cuts across all that: I think that is obvious based on experience of how > people (readers - most of the world doesn't edit) react to articles. A > single annoying aspect is likely to get negative votes, and whether > voting is commented or not, there are going to be problems. > > So before some strategy genius decides that whole namespace is for > something other than its traditional role, I think there should be a > pause for reflection. Perhaps there could be a way of encouraging > comments which were general (not specific to an existing thread or > starting a new topic), and simply filed in a dedicated "general comment" > archive, running in parallel with the traditional slug-it-out > editing-related comments. +1 That would be handy. Many talk page comments today would better fit into that sort of 'general comment' archive -- having a place to organize each would help improve relations with casual commenters as well (who often get ignored, or brushed aside with a comment that it's been mentioned previously... which isn't such a great reason to proscribe new comments). Sj ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Charles Matthews wrote: > The introduction of Talk pages was, it should not be forgotten, one of > the most brilliant innovations of the early days of Wikipedia. Indeed. A very intelligent friend of mine said he often finds the talk page as interesting as the article itself. He described them as a 'Talmudic commentary'. I keep meaning to make sure that I always read the talk page after scanning an article but I don't seem to have implanted that idea in my head with sufficient rigour yet, I tend to forget. I've sometimes used the talk page to list research resources that I've used that I don't feel would be quite right to put as external links on the article itself. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
Bod Notbod wrote: > One of the proposals on the strategy wiki has recommended an > adjustment to talk pages. I added that perhaps the tab should be > called "discussion/feedback" to encourage people who are primarily > readers to let us know what they thought of an article without it > necessarily sounding like they had to be knowledgeable. > > I'm afraid I can't link to the proposal cos I can't remember the name > or whether I watchlisted it. > > But I imagine this kind of proposal is fairly common: > > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13573 > The introduction of Talk pages was, it should not be forgotten, one of the most brilliant innovations of the early days of Wikipedia. The idea that the Talk page is specifically for discussions aimed at improving the article in its current state is actually a pillar of how we work. Feedback of the "like it/hate it" kind (which is what voting would be) cuts across all that: I think that is obvious based on experience of how people (readers - most of the world doesn't edit) react to articles. A single annoying aspect is likely to get negative votes, and whether voting is commented or not, there are going to be problems. So before some strategy genius decides that whole namespace is for something other than its traditional role, I think there should be a pause for reflection. Perhaps there could be a way of encouraging comments which were general (not specific to an existing thread or starting a new topic), and simply filed in a dedicated "general comment" archive, running in parallel with the traditional slug-it-out editing-related comments. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:59 AM, David Gerard wrote: > 2009/9/4 FT2 : > >> What I would think more likely to succeed? A "Help us improve" tab, not a >> "comment" tab >> Specifically with a header and edit notice "If you can see a way to improve >> this article, or better more up to date information, let us know!" > > +1 Especially useful for non-logged-in users. >> I also might consider trialling a button that said "If you notice an error, >> omission, outdated facts, or any other ways we can improve this article, >> '''[[TALK PAGE|click here]]''' and let us know!" How about simply a cheerful "feedback" button? ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 2:47 PM, FT2 wrote: > What I would think more likely to succeed? A "Help us improve" tab, not a > "comment" tab One of the proposals on the strategy wiki has recommended an adjustment to talk pages. I added that perhaps the tab should be called "discussion/feedback" to encourage people who are primarily readers to let us know what they thought of an article without it necessarily sounding like they had to be knowledgeable. I'm afraid I can't link to the proposal cos I can't remember the name or whether I watchlisted it. But I imagine this kind of proposal is fairly common: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13573 ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
2009/9/4 FT2 : > What I would think more likely to succeed? A "Help us improve" tab, not a > "comment" tab > Specifically with a header and edit notice "If you can see a way to improve > this article, or better more up to date information, let us know!" +1 Brilliant! > I also might consider trialling a button that said "If you notice an error, > omission, outdated facts, or any other ways we can improve this article, > '''[[TALK PAGE|click here]]''' and let us know!" Hmm, could be good ... maintenance nightmare for BLPs stll, though. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
How something's framed can shape how it's used. I would never have a "comment on this article" page, it's pointless and a monitoring nightmare. We'd get arguments and dramas, then we'd be expected to clean them up, BLP and negative material and accused of "sheltering" one side when we purge them... you name it. We don't need that. What I would think more likely to succeed? A "Help us improve" tab, not a "comment" tab Specifically with a header and edit notice "If you can see a way to improve this article, or better more up to date information, let us know!" I also might consider trialling a button that said "If you notice an error, omission, outdated facts, or any other ways we can improve this article, '''[[TALK PAGE|click here]]''' and let us know!" FT2 ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
While poking over my Google Analytics I discovered this odd thing I think they call it a "Bounce" rate ? It's supposed to measure how often people come to your *one page* and then bounce away without sticking to your site to read others related pages. That sounds like what you're talking about below. That is, do people read one page and then go away? Or do they read one page and then another 25 more in the same sitting, before the boss comes in and fires them? That kind of thing. Will -Original Message- From: Carcharoth To: English Wikipedia Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:06 AM, David Gerard wrote: > Y'know, we have pretty much no facillities *just for the reader*. I thought they had things called articles they could read? :-) Seriously, some of the better portals are hard for readers to find. And I'm not sure how far some readers go beyond the articles they are reading. Page views are about the only clue there. It would be nice if the usability people found out this sort of thing, or if there were stats revealing the most popular *routes* taken by people, from say, a place like the main page. But I think that requires things like cookies and privacy concerns might weigh against such things, though if some readers could be persuaded to have their browsing session "recorded", that would be very interesting. I was very pleased to see the "Featured content portal" feature very highly on one of the recent page view listings. Carcharoth ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:06 AM, David Gerard wrote: > Y'know, we have pretty much no facillities *just for the reader*. I thought they had things called articles they could read? :-) Seriously, some of the better portals are hard for readers to find. And I'm not sure how far some readers go beyond the articles they are reading. Page views are about the only clue there. It would be nice if the usability people found out this sort of thing, or if there were stats revealing the most popular *routes* taken by people, from say, a place like the main page. But I think that requires things like cookies and privacy concerns might weigh against such things, though if some readers could be persuaded to have their browsing session "recorded", that would be very interesting. I was very pleased to see the "Featured content portal" feature very highly on one of the recent page view listings. Carcharoth ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
> I like having the "Make a Comment" button at the bottom of each > article, as this would mimic what readers are used to seeing at > other sites. Maybe the "Make a Comment" button can link to a page that has check boxes that have both positive (Fun to read, easy to understand, accurate) and negative (Boring, hard to understand, inaccurate) words beside them, then have a text box at the bottom saying "Any other comments?". We would get a lot of kids who would, of course, do the whole "dirty pedo" thing in the text box, check off all the words, etc. At least then, it doesn't end up in the article. But then, who would read the comments? Emily On Sep 3, 2009, at 5:04 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > No that was someone's idea, but not mine. > I like having the "Make a Comment" button at the bottom of each > article, as this would mimic what readers are used to seeing at other > sites. > I don't that this would create a seperate section on the Talk page > however, as I think this would clutter the Talk page with a lot of > casual comments. > When you read the comments on say a YouTube video, you get a lot of > one-liners and people talking back and forth and so on. > I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to allow > casual readers to make comments. > It seems like just that possibly more-friendly approach might bring > people into the project as editors as well. > I'm not sure it would, it's a trial balloon. > > Will > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Emily Monroe > To: English Wikipedia > Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20 am > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments > > > > > >> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what >> sorts of things are OK for comments. > > I thought we were talking about how to make the talk page more > accessible... > > Emily > On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >> bluecalioc...@me.com writes: >> >> >>> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person >>> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does). >>> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the >>> same argument on Wikipedia.>> >> >> --- >> What? That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone >> says "I >> love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail >> is not >> something we want ? >> >> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what >> sorts >> of things are OK for comments. >> >> Will >> >> ___ >> WikiEN-l mailing list >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
2009/9/3 Al Tally : > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:19 PM, wrote: >> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:24:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >> majorly.w...@googlemail.com writes: >> > Or worse, "THIS PERSON IS A DIRTY PEDO1!!" (or something as bad). >> > Could >> > be problematic for BLPs.>> >> We already get that. So this wouldn't change that issue. > It's blatantly encouraging it though. How does Wikinews cope? Would be useful to know. Y'know, we have pretty much no facillities *just for the reader*. This would be good to engage people. Would need an eye kept on it, as you note. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:19 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:24:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > majorly.w...@googlemail.com writes: > > > > Or worse, "THIS PERSON IS A DIRTY PEDO1!!" (or something as bad). > > Could > > be problematic for BLPs.>> > > -- > > We already get that. So this wouldn't change that issue. > It's blatantly encouraging it though. -- Alex (User:Majorly) ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
2009/9/3 Emily Monroe : >> I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to >> allow casual readers to make comments. > THANK YOU for the clarification! It is, of course, *also* a good way to get input from people frightened by the idea of editing for whatever reason. I think the Wikinews version is just another page of wikitext. Is there a friendlier version we could ask to be deployed? (allowing for on-wiki consensus &c.) I'm not sure if LiquidThreads is top-10-ready. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
> I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to > allow casual readers to make comments. THANK YOU for the clarification! Emily On Sep 3, 2009, at 5:04 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > No that was someone's idea, but not mine. > I like having the "Make a Comment" button at the bottom of each > article, as this would mimic what readers are used to seeing at other > sites. > I don't that this would create a seperate section on the Talk page > however, as I think this would clutter the Talk page with a lot of > casual comments. > When you read the comments on say a YouTube video, you get a lot of > one-liners and people talking back and forth and so on. > I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to allow > casual readers to make comments. > It seems like just that possibly more-friendly approach might bring > people into the project as editors as well. > I'm not sure it would, it's a trial balloon. > > Will > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Emily Monroe > To: English Wikipedia > Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20 am > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments > > > > > >> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what >> sorts of things are OK for comments. > > I thought we were talking about how to make the talk page more > accessible... > > Emily > On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >> bluecalioc...@me.com writes: >> >> >>> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person >>> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does). >>> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the >>> same argument on Wikipedia.>> >> >> --- >> What? That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone >> says "I >> love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail >> is not >> something we want ? >> >> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what >> sorts >> of things are OK for comments. >> >> Will >> >> ___ >> WikiEN-l mailing list >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
No that was someone's idea, but not mine. I like having the "Make a Comment" button at the bottom of each article, as this would mimic what readers are used to seeing at other sites. I don't that this would create a seperate section on the Talk page however, as I think this would clutter the Talk page with a lot of casual comments. When you read the comments on say a YouTube video, you get a lot of one-liners and people talking back and forth and so on. I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to allow casual readers to make comments. It seems like just that possibly more-friendly approach might bring people into the project as editors as well. I'm not sure it would, it's a trial balloon. Will -Original Message- From: Emily Monroe To: English Wikipedia Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20 am Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments > I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what > sorts of things are OK for comments. I thought we were talking about how to make the talk page more accessible... Emily On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > bluecalioc...@me.com writes: > > >> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person >> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does). >> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the >> same argument on Wikipedia.>> > > --- > What? That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone > says "I > love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail > is not > something we want ? > > I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what > sorts > of things are OK for comments. > > Will > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what > sorts of things are OK for comments. I thought we were talking about how to make the talk page more accessible... Emily On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > bluecalioc...@me.com writes: > > >> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person >> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does). >> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the >> same argument on Wikipedia.>> > > --- > What? That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone > says "I > love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail > is not > something we want ? > > I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what > sorts > of things are OK for comments. > > Will > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:24:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, majorly.w...@googlemail.com writes: > Or worse, "THIS PERSON IS A DIRTY PEDO1!!" (or something as bad). > Could > be problematic for BLPs.>> -- We already get that. So this wouldn't change that issue. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bluecalioc...@me.com writes: > Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person > writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does). > They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the > same argument on Wikipedia.>> --- What? That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone says "I love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail is not something we want ? I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what sorts of things are OK for comments. Will ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Emily Monroe wrote: > > Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page > > marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the > > discussion page. > > Good idea, but we would get dozens of "OMG I LUV THIS PERSUN!11!!!". > > Emily > Or worse, "THIS PERSON IS A DIRTY PEDO1!!" (or something as bad). Could be problematic for BLPs. -- Alex (User:Majorly) ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
> As a casual reader on OPB (other people's blogs) I get annoyed if my > comment gets wiped or never appears. Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does). They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the same argument on Wikipedia. Emily On Sep 2, 2009, at 11:39 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > I think I like "Comment on this page" at the bottom, but I'm hesitant > to endorse that creating a section on the discussion (Talk) page. I > have a reason for my hesitation. > > Sometimes readers comments on say "Patty Hearst" might be something > like "Oh I remember when this occurred, I was in the seventh grade and > had to do a report on her..." > > Now something like that is an interesting way for casual readers to > spout off, but on a patrolled-article, comments of that sort get > routinely purged as they don't really help us to improve the article. > As a casual reader on OPB (other people's blogs) I get annoyed if my > comment gets wiped or never appears. > > I wouldn't be adverse to moderated comments so we don't get "lick my > ass!" and things like that. > > At any rate, anyone want to bring this to the general wiki community > somewhere and gauge the reaction? > > Will > > > > -Original Message- > From: Steve Bennett > To: English Wikipedia > Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 6:58 pm > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments > > > > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard wrote: >> Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for >> editors >> working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers >> to spout forth. Would be good. > > Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the > horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to > comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at > the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it), > then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New > section". > > Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page > marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the > discussion page. > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
> Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page > marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the > discussion page. Good idea, but we would get dozens of "OMG I LUV THIS PERSUN!11!!!". Emily On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard wrote: >> Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for >> editors >> working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers >> to spout forth. Would be good. > > Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the > horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to > comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at > the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it), > then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New > section". > > Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page > marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the > discussion page. > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
I think I like "Comment on this page" at the bottom, but I'm hesitant to endorse that creating a section on the discussion (Talk) page. I have a reason for my hesitation. Sometimes readers comments on say "Patty Hearst" might be something like "Oh I remember when this occurred, I was in the seventh grade and had to do a report on her..." Now something like that is an interesting way for casual readers to spout off, but on a patrolled-article, comments of that sort get routinely purged as they don't really help us to improve the article. As a casual reader on OPB (other people's blogs) I get annoyed if my comment gets wiped or never appears. I wouldn't be adverse to moderated comments so we don't get "lick my ass!" and things like that. At any rate, anyone want to bring this to the general wiki community somewhere and gauge the reaction? Will -Original Message- From: Steve Bennett To: English Wikipedia Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 6:58 pm Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard wrote: > Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors > working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers > to spout forth. Would be good. Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it), then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New section". Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the discussion page. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard wrote: > Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors > working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers > to spout forth. Would be good. Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it), then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New section". Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the discussion page. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
> I notice the button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public > comment"; confusing! Maybe what they mean is "Make a comment, generic member of the public." Emily On Sep 2, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Luna wrote: > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM, wrote: > >> I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google >> search. >> Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover >> it it >> says "Comment". So I tried it. >> > > In the Google search settings page, I followed a "learn more" link > about > SearchWiki, which took me here: > http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=115764 > > Looks like any comments/promotions/rankings you make are stored for > your own > use -- the documentation on the help page seems to suggest that this > information is private (in the sense that it's only viewed by you on > your > own searches, if not necessarily as a matter of policy), but I > notice the > button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public comment"; > confusing! > > -Luna > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM, wrote: > I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google search. > Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover it it > says "Comment". So I tried it. > In the Google search settings page, I followed a "learn more" link about SearchWiki, which took me here: http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=115764 Looks like any comments/promotions/rankings you make are stored for your own use -- the documentation on the help page seems to suggest that this information is private (in the sense that it's only viewed by you on your own searches, if not necessarily as a matter of policy), but I notice the button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public comment"; confusing! -Luna ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
2009/9/2 : > To make this thread on-topic, I wonder if there would be any advantage is > allowing comments, separate from Talk Page comments, on our articles? > I notice that many casual readers will leave "comments" which you can > generally spot as they are not-tagged-with-a-sig and generally left at the > top > of the Talk page without regard for headers and so on. > I just wonder if a more free-form "comment" section would encourage more > casual readers to become casual writers. Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers to spout forth. Would be good. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
Nope, no comments shown. If you click on the "See all notes for this SearchWiki" button below the results, it says no public notes have been made for the search results for ["arsenic and old lace" youtube]. What's a SearchWiki? Nathan ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google search. Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover it it says "Comment". So I tried it. Would someone else try this Google search "arsenic and old lace" youtube Just like that with the quotes and all. On the first few hits you should see a result _YouTube - Arsenic And Old Lace 1/15 (1944)_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6YzAfyIeAA) Would you see if you can see a comment I left there? I'm curious how this works. To make this thread on-topic, I wonder if there would be any advantage is allowing comments, separate from Talk Page comments, on our articles? I notice that many casual readers will leave "comments" which you can generally spot as they are not-tagged-with-a-sig and generally left at the top of the Talk page without regard for headers and so on. I just wonder if a more free-form "comment" section would encourage more casual readers to become casual writers. Will Johnson P.S. The only reason I picked this particular movie was because I was casually looking for more movies to add to my _Click here to see the entire list of Peter Lorre Movies on YouTube_ (http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/peter-lorre-movies-on-youtube/4hmquk6fx4gu/ 299) and _Click here to see the entire list of Cary Grant Movies on YouTube_ (http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/cary-grant-movies-on-youtube/4hmquk6fx4gu/18 8) Although obviously people are *watching* my nightly selections, they don't seem to be adding any comments ;) Maybe I'm perfect after all! ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
