Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
When I patrol, I go from the link to "patrolling pages from the back of the unpatrolled backlog." http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&dir=prev&hidepatrolled=1 The problem is not setting it up so I person can do it; the problem is arranging so pages are routinely patrolled after an interval--for arranging it so nothing ges missed, either immediately fo rthe really bad stuff, or later to do it for the rest. On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 5:24 PM, geni wrote: > 2009/1/1 David Goodman : >> We could as easily set up new pages to have a half-hour holding >> period; the problem is how to separate the need to remove the truly >> nasty material immediately. A delay period inevitably requires >> checking things twice. >> > > Already possible > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&offset=20090101212200 > that is > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&offset=year,month,day,hour,minute,second > > But no one wants to do that. Remember tagging is secondary admins can > just straight delete without tagging. > > -- > geni > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > -- David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
2009/1/1 David Goodman : > We could as easily set up new pages to have a half-hour holding > period; the problem is how to separate the need to remove the truly > nasty material immediately. A delay period inevitably requires > checking things twice. > Already possible http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&offset=20090101212200 that is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&offset=year,month,day,hour,minute,second But no one wants to do that. Remember tagging is secondary admins can just straight delete without tagging. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
We could as easily set up new pages to have a half-hour holding
period; the problem is how to separate the need to remove the truly
nasty material immediately. A delay period inevitably requires
checking things twice.
On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 3:15 PM, geni wrote:
> 2008/12/31 Charlotte Webb :
>> If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
>
> Try and keep up with marking new pages as patrolled for say half an hour.
>
>> In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last
>> stable version (if one exists).
>>
>> After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from
>> vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles
>> which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
>
> There is no way to do this.
>
>> Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from
>> geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster
>> pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
>
> Not so much. Since it is generally fairly easy to argue for the
> significance of many unwritten third world articles.
>
>> Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
>
> Experience suggests not.
>
> --
> geni
>
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
2008/12/31 Charlotte Webb :
> If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
Try and keep up with marking new pages as patrolled for say half an hour.
> In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last
> stable version (if one exists).
>
> After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from
> vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles
> which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
There is no way to do this.
> Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from
> geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster
> pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
Not so much. Since it is generally fairly easy to argue for the
significance of many unwritten third world articles.
> Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
Experience suggests not.
--
geni
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
There should also be an automatically expiring {{NOINDEX}} as well;
that would fix the google problem.
On 31/12/2008, wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
> First you must be familiar with the {{uc}}.
> This tag tells a tagger/deleter... STOP I'm working here !
>
> If, for each new article, we simply automatically tag it {{uc}} with
> today's
> date, then no new article should get tagged for deletion simply because
> it's
> new and under developed.
>
> IF a new article is merely spam, or vandalism of course, you can delete it
> even with a uc tag.
>
> Some editors, like myself, do not develop articles all-at-once and plop
> them
> in, rather we develop them in-project with a bit and piece here and there
> and given several hours, you have a full article, or at least a useful
> stub.
> So new article patrollers just see one sentence, and then five minutes
> later
> two more sentences, and then 15 minutes later another paragraph they
> are
> likely to want to tag it as too stubby right away. The uc tag stops that.
>
> But new editors won't know, first day, about this tag . So making it
> automatic would solve that issue.
>
> Will Johnson
>
>
>
> **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
> Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
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--
-Ian Woollard
We live in an imperfectly imperfect world. Life in a perfectly
imperfect world would be much better.
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Charlotte Webb
wrote:
> On 12/30/08, Wilhelm Schnotz wrote:
>> Secondly there is the issue of google indexing our new pages very
>> quickly. I have heard estimates that new articles are out on google
>> anywhere from 1 hour to 5 hours. We do need to make sure attacks and
>> spam are removed before google indexs them.
>
> If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
>
> In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last
> stable version (if one exists).
>
> After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from
> vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles
> which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
>
> While I think this would be the best strategy to avoid the scenarios
> you describe, I don't think it has anything to do with the shelf-life
> of articles tagged for speedy deletion.
>
> Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from
> geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster
> pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
>
> Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
Depends. If those efforts are channelled towards difficult stuff, it
could make things worse. The trick is to find something else ongoing,
backlogged, interesting and simple and rewarding and useful (that last
one might be difficult), and directing the efforts towards that.
Carcharoth
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
Sorry I meant to finish that thought. > Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks. Might sic them loose on copyright backlogs or something else where the benefit of the doubt is not the benefit of the project. —C.W. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
On 12/30/08, Wilhelm Schnotz wrote:
> Secondly there is the issue of google indexing our new pages very
> quickly. I have heard estimates that new articles are out on google
> anywhere from 1 hour to 5 hours. We do need to make sure attacks and
> spam are removed before google indexs them.
If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last
stable version (if one exists).
After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from
vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles
which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
While I think this would be the best strategy to avoid the scenarios
you describe, I don't think it has anything to do with the shelf-life
of articles tagged for speedy deletion.
Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from
geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster
pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
—C.W.
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
That's already been discussed several times. It's really not feasible with the current load on speedy. The standards to avoid speedy (make a basic assertion of importance, provide sufficient context so someone will know what you're talking about, don't attack or advertise, don't post blatant copyvios) are really pretty minimal. If an article doesn't meet even these minimums, there's no reason to keep it around for an hour or at all. We can solve biting problems by being nice when speedying, not by failing to do it when needed. If we want to reduce the likelihood of speedies, let's restrict new article creation to those with a minimum number of mainspace edits to ensure at least some experience with content policies. This would also deter a lot of page creation vandalism and "JOHN IS A (insert expletive here)" and "We are the leading widget provider..." type garbage. -Original Message- From: Jon Subj: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion Date: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:07 pm Size: 1K To: English Wikipedia -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I do want to thank everyone who gave input for my BLP question, and a special nod to Angela who pointed out the archives. I should have read those first. Here is a second issue I would like to discuss, if the group is inclined. Speedy deletion nominations, I would propose there be a paradigm shift from our current thinking of "Tag immediately and template the user talk *right after* creation to something like "don't tag untill an hour has passed". I believe this will be less bity and more encouraging to our users. To quote something I observed today from one good editor in reference to our jest over speedy deletions: "Welcome to wikipedia. You didn't create a good enough article in your allotted 60 seconds so we deleted it. Dont forget to sign your posts!" Even though it was in jest, it is true. I think perhaps it is time we consider enacting (onwiki discussion to follow if this is well received) something of a one hour rule to tagging and templating. We've grown so... ...automated. Thoughts? Best, Jon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkla77MACgkQ6+ro8Pm1AtVdYACdGluva0JY2MmTfZkkYixRC+g5 PAAAoJerVDg8COBPdYcdTizmZCUJGAp9 =6sv9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
Glad to, I'm not crazy yet, I know the limits of programs :). -- User:Nixeagle On 12/31/08, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > Thank you for explaining that. > I would endorse a tool like the one you described. > > Will Johnson > > > > **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, > Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0025) > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
Thank you for explaining that. I would endorse a tool like the one you described. Will Johnson **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0025) ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
The tool won't fix them, people will. The tool is only intended to help direct people to categories they have knowledge about. Example: A list of all living american football players with a fact tag on them. A list of all living country singers with fact tags on them. Given these lists football folks can know which pages need the help, etc. Think of it as a way of dividing work up. The program will also keep track of each category and publish counts so we can know our progress. On 12/31/08, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > Except to get a lot of flack on a tool to "fix" BLPs with fact tags. > > I anticipate a poor reception :) > Personally I think bots are the worst thing to ever happen to the project. > I can't think of one I like. Well maybe one. > > Will Johnson > > > > **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, > Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0025) > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
Except to get a lot of flack on a tool to "fix" BLPs with fact tags. I anticipate a poor reception :) Personally I think bots are the worst thing to ever happen to the project. I can't think of one I like. Well maybe one. Will Johnson **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0025) ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
I won't argue against that but I know that others won't take your position.
As an aside, regarding the fact backlog I do plan on writing a tool
tommorrow or Thursday (whenever toolserver comes back up and I fix a
few other tools) that will list all articles by category that are both
ib the blp category and have a fact tag on it. It is my hope that once
the tool is written we can direct subject specialists to help us
source what they know... Folks in Canada can source Canadian
politicians, etc.
On 12/31/08, wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/30/2008 9:35:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> wilh...@nixeagle.org writes:
>
> Right but nobody will know to check back on the article. Generally
> articles are monitored by watching the rc feeds, at least that is what
> I used to do.>>
>
>
> ---
> The rate of new article creation is trivial compared to the mass of bytes
> we
> already have.
> In my mind, there is not, and never was, any need for anyone to monitor new
> article creation.
> Those eyes could be much better served on the old {{fact}} list.
> We have a backlog *exceeding* one year.
> That, imho, is far more important, than catching a one sentence stub.
>
> Will Johnson
>
>
>
> **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
> Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
In a message dated 12/30/2008 9:35:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wilh...@nixeagle.org writes:
Right but nobody will know to check back on the article. Generally
articles are monitored by watching the rc feeds, at least that is what
I used to do.>>
---
The rate of new article creation is trivial compared to the mass of bytes we
already have.
In my mind, there is not, and never was, any need for anyone to monitor new
article creation.
Those eyes could be much better served on the old {{fact}} list.
We have a backlog *exceeding* one year.
That, imho, is far more important, than catching a one sentence stub.
Will Johnson
**One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
Right but nobody will know to check back on the article. Generally
articles are monitored by watching the rc feeds, at least that is what
I used to do.
On 12/31/08, wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/30/2008 8:32:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> wilh...@nixeagle.org writes:
>
> Sorry, I am not getting it. Please explain in more detail.>>
>
>
>
> First you must be familiar with the {{uc}}.
> This tag tells a tagger/deleter... STOP I'm working here !
>
> If, for each new article, we simply automatically tag it {{uc}} with
> today's
> date, then no new article should get tagged for deletion simply because
> it's
> new and under developed.
>
> IF a new article is merely spam, or vandalism of course, you can delete it
> even with a uc tag.
>
> Some editors, like myself, do not develop articles all-at-once and plop
> them
> in, rather we develop them in-project with a bit and piece here and there
> and given several hours, you have a full article, or at least a useful
> stub.
> So new article patrollers just see one sentence, and then five minutes
> later
> two more sentences, and then 15 minutes later another paragraph they
> are
> likely to want to tag it as too stubby right away. The uc tag stops that.
>
> But new editors won't know, first day, about this tag . So making it
> automatic would solve that issue.
>
> Will Johnson
>
>
>
> **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
> Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
In a message dated 12/30/2008 8:32:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wilh...@nixeagle.org writes:
Sorry, I am not getting it. Please explain in more detail.>>
First you must be familiar with the {{uc}}.
This tag tells a tagger/deleter... STOP I'm working here !
If, for each new article, we simply automatically tag it {{uc}} with today's
date, then no new article should get tagged for deletion simply because it's
new and under developed.
IF a new article is merely spam, or vandalism of course, you can delete it
even with a uc tag.
Some editors, like myself, do not develop articles all-at-once and plop them
in, rather we develop them in-project with a bit and piece here and there
and given several hours, you have a full article, or at least a useful stub.
So new article patrollers just see one sentence, and then five minutes later
two more sentences, and then 15 minutes later another paragraph they are
likely to want to tag it as too stubby right away. The uc tag stops that.
But new editors won't know, first day, about this tag . So making it
automatic would solve that issue.
Will Johnson
**One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
Sorry, I am not getting it. Please explain in more detail.
On 12/30/08, wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
> Create an automatic {{uc}} which expires in two hours. New editors won't
> know about the uc.
>
> Will Johnson
>
>
> **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
> Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
Create an automatic {{uc}} which expires in two hours. New editors won't
know about the uc.
Will Johnson
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
The problem with your suggestion is almost a software issue as well. Why they are done right now... In 60 seconds or less is because that is what users see on the ervent changes feed. Secondly there is the issue of google indexing our new pages very quickly. I have heard estimates that new articles are out on google anywhere from 1 hour to 5 hours. We do need to make sure attacks and spam are removed before google indexs them. On 12/30/08, Jon wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > I do want to thank everyone who gave input for my BLP question, and a > special nod to Angela who pointed out the archives. I should have > read those first. > > > Here is a second issue I would like to discuss, if the group is inclined. > > Speedy deletion nominations, I would propose there be a paradigm shift > from our current thinking of "Tag immediately and template the user > talk *right after* creation to something like "don't tag untill an > hour has passed". I believe this will be less bity and more > encouraging to our users. To quote something I observed today from > one good editor in reference to our jest over speedy deletions: > > "Welcome to wikipedia. You didn't create a good enough article in > your allotted 60 seconds so we deleted it. Dont forget to sign your > posts!" > > Even though it was in jest, it is true. > > I think perhaps it is time we consider enacting (onwiki discussion to > follow if this is well received) something of a one hour rule to > tagging and templating. We've grown so... > > > ...automated. > > > Thoughts? > > Best, > Jon > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkla77MACgkQ6+ro8Pm1AtVdYACdGluva0JY2MmTfZkkYixRC+g5 > PAAAoJerVDg8COBPdYcdTizmZCUJGAp9 > =6sv9 > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I do want to thank everyone who gave input for my BLP question, and a special nod to Angela who pointed out the archives. I should have read those first. Here is a second issue I would like to discuss, if the group is inclined. Speedy deletion nominations, I would propose there be a paradigm shift from our current thinking of "Tag immediately and template the user talk *right after* creation to something like "don't tag untill an hour has passed". I believe this will be less bity and more encouraging to our users. To quote something I observed today from one good editor in reference to our jest over speedy deletions: "Welcome to wikipedia. You didn't create a good enough article in your allotted 60 seconds so we deleted it. Dont forget to sign your posts!" Even though it was in jest, it is true. I think perhaps it is time we consider enacting (onwiki discussion to follow if this is well received) something of a one hour rule to tagging and templating. We've grown so... ...automated. Thoughts? Best, Jon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkla77MACgkQ6+ro8Pm1AtVdYACdGluva0JY2MmTfZkkYixRC+g5 PAAAoJerVDg8COBPdYcdTizmZCUJGAp9 =6sv9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
