Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[MuZemike]

I think those "clueless" people out there (or those who are just plain 
ignorant) are beginning to know how exactly the "wheel" was invented.

-MuZemike

On 7/23/2010 7:49 PM, George Herbert wrote:
> David -
>
> Please don't toss napalm on the fire.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -george
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> On 24 July 2010 00:57, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
>>  
>>> On 23 July 2010 13:53, Daniel R. Tobias  wrote:
>>>
>>  
 rightly ridiculed by critics such as the WR crowd.
  
>>
>> See, that's a sentence fragment that is intrinsically flawed. The WR
>> crowd in question was not "critics", the correct term is "stalkers and
>> trolls," several of whom are the actual people the foundation was
>> concerned about showing up there. You get no points for clear thinking
>> on this topic.
>>
>>
>>  
>>> The Foundation, like any other employer, has a duty (both legal and
>>> moral) to protect its staff. The nature of the Foundation's work means
>>> there is a significant risk of it coming under various forms of
>>> attack, including people turning up at the office and behaving in a
>>> threatening manner. Keeping the location of the office quiet was the
>>> best way the Foundation had to mitigate that risk. The new office
>>> comes with security, so the risk is significantly reduced, hence the
>>> address being published.
>>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
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>>  
>
>
>


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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Thomas Dalton]

On 24 July 2010 01:04, David Gerard  wrote:
> On 24 July 2010 00:57, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
>> On 23 July 2010 13:53, Daniel R. Tobias  wrote:
>
>>> rightly ridiculed by critics such as the WR crowd.
>
>
> See, that's a sentence fragment that is intrinsically flawed. The WR
> crowd in question was not "critics", the correct term is "stalkers and
> trolls," several of whom are the actual people the foundation was
> concerned about showing up there. You get no points for clear thinking
> on this topic.

Actually, I think the correct term has a few more asterisks in it...

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[George Herbert]

David -

Please don't toss napalm on the fire.

Thanks.

-george

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
> On 24 July 2010 00:57, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
>> On 23 July 2010 13:53, Daniel R. Tobias  wrote:
>
>>> rightly ridiculed by critics such as the WR crowd.
>
>
> See, that's a sentence fragment that is intrinsically flawed. The WR
> crowd in question was not "critics", the correct term is "stalkers and
> trolls," several of whom are the actual people the foundation was
> concerned about showing up there. You get no points for clear thinking
> on this topic.
>
>
>> The Foundation, like any other employer, has a duty (both legal and
>> moral) to protect its staff. The nature of the Foundation's work means
>> there is a significant risk of it coming under various forms of
>> attack, including people turning up at the office and behaving in a
>> threatening manner. Keeping the location of the office quiet was the
>> best way the Foundation had to mitigate that risk. The new office
>> comes with security, so the risk is significantly reduced, hence the
>> address being published.
>
>
> - d.
>
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-- 
-george william herbert
george.herb...@gmail.com

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[David Gerard]

On 24 July 2010 00:57, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
> On 23 July 2010 13:53, Daniel R. Tobias  wrote:

>> rightly ridiculed by critics such as the WR crowd.


See, that's a sentence fragment that is intrinsically flawed. The WR
crowd in question was not "critics", the correct term is "stalkers and
trolls," several of whom are the actual people the foundation was
concerned about showing up there. You get no points for clear thinking
on this topic.


> The Foundation, like any other employer, has a duty (both legal and
> moral) to protect its staff. The nature of the Foundation's work means
> there is a significant risk of it coming under various forms of
> attack, including people turning up at the office and behaving in a
> threatening manner. Keeping the location of the office quiet was the
> best way the Foundation had to mitigate that risk. The new office
> comes with security, so the risk is significantly reduced, hence the
> address being published.


- d.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Thomas Dalton]

On 23 July 2010 13:53, Daniel R. Tobias  wrote:
> Still, making any attempt to be secretive about where the office was
> (which even included deleting pictures from Commons that showed what
> the building looked like) was a really silly thing for an
> organization based around free exchange of information to do, and was
> rightly ridiculed by critics such as the WR crowd.

The Foundation, like any other employer, has a duty (both legal and
moral) to protect its staff. The nature of the Foundation's work means
there is a significant risk of it coming under various forms of
attack, including people turning up at the office and behaving in a
threatening manner. Keeping the location of the office quiet was the
best way the Foundation had to mitigate that risk. The new office
comes with security, so the risk is significantly reduced, hence the
address being published.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Casey Brown]

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:28 PM, George Herbert
 wrote:
> However, from:
>  https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/w/index.php?title=Contact_us&action=history
>
> ...This guy filed the complaint at a time (Feb 28, 2010)  after the
> last update to the WMF "Contact us" page was made (Nov 3, 2009), and
> the page contained the street address for the office.
>

The address is actually on a template that's transcluded in multiple
pages on foundationwiki:
.

However, you're correct that that's still before Feb 28, 2010. :-)

-- 
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Daniel R. Tobias]

On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:43:03 -0700, Cary Bass wrote:

> On 07/21/2010 12:07 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> > Indeed. The address of the old office was kept quiet for security
> > reasons, but the address of the new office has always been
> > publicly available. To give him the benefit of the tiniest bit of
> > doubt, he might have written it while the WMF was in the old office
> > and just taken a long time to submit it to the court and not
> > thought to check it was still true. There has been a phone number
> > available for years, though.
> Might I also offer that "kept quiet" does not negate "offered up to
> anyone who phoned up and asked for it."  In reality, it was simply not
> publicized; but it was generally fairly easy to get.

Still, making any attempt to be secretive about where the office was 
(which even included deleting pictures from Commons that showed what 
the building looked like) was a really silly thing for an 
organization based around free exchange of information to do, and was 
rightly ridiculed by critics such as the WR crowd.


-- 
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/



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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Thomas Dalton]

On 22 July 2010 23:19, Ray Saintonge  wrote:
> Is idiocy a defence to perjury?

Yes, regrettably it is.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Ray Saintonge]

Bod Notbod wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Thomas Dalton  
> wrote:
>   
>> That's great fun! If I had more faith in humanity, I'd assume it was
>> somebody's idea of a joke... (a joke which wastes the court's time, at
>> that).
>> 
> The petition states that the Foundation cannot be traced to a physical
> address. That can't be right, can it? And then he signs at the bottom
> which warns that - if he knowingly states a falsehood - he commits
> perjury; so if he *is* aware that the Foundation has an address he has
> perjured himself.
>
> Googling "Wikimedia Foundation" gives you as top hit the site you
> would expect and as soon as you click "contact us" you are given the
> Foundation's address.
Is idiocy a defence to perjury? If one assumes good faith one is left 
with the conclusion that he did not have enough lights on to look and 
see the address.

In any event, the action is against Homeland Security, and WMF is 
specifically excluded as a defendant.  I think that it is reasonable to 
speculate the Homeland Security (and other departments like the FBI) has 
considerable experience in dealing with such extraterrestrials.

Ray



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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[George Herbert]

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
> On 22 July 2010 16:43, Cary Bass  wrote:
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 07/21/2010 12:07 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>>> Indeed. The address of the old office was kept quiet for security
>>> reasons, but the address of the new office has always been
>>> publicly available. To give him the benefit of the tiniest bit of
>>> doubt, he might have written it while the WMF was in the old office
>>> and just taken a long time to submit it to the court and not
>>> thought to check it was still true. There has been a phone number
>>> available for years, though.
>> Might I also offer that "kept quiet" does not negate "offered up to
>> anyone who phoned up and asked for it."  In reality, it was simply not
>> publicized; but it was generally fairly easy to get.
>
> Indeed, that's why I said "quiet" rather than "private" or "secret".

...And there was always a legal service address for DMCA takedown
notices, through which agents can serve even if the organization
itself is not available.  And a published phone number.

However, from:
  
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/w/index.php?title=Contact_us&action=history

...This guy filed the complaint at a time (Feb 28, 2010)  after the
last update to the WMF "Contact us" page was made (Nov 3, 2009), and
the page contained the street address for the office.


-- 
-george william herbert
george.herb...@gmail.com

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Thomas Dalton]

On 22 July 2010 16:43, Cary Bass  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 07/21/2010 12:07 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>> Indeed. The address of the old office was kept quiet for security
>> reasons, but the address of the new office has always been
>> publicly available. To give him the benefit of the tiniest bit of
>> doubt, he might have written it while the WMF was in the old office
>> and just taken a long time to submit it to the court and not
>> thought to check it was still true. There has been a phone number
>> available for years, though.
> Might I also offer that "kept quiet" does not negate "offered up to
> anyone who phoned up and asked for it."  In reality, it was simply not
> publicized; but it was generally fairly easy to get.

Indeed, that's why I said "quiet" rather than "private" or "secret".

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Cary Bass]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 07/21/2010 12:07 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> Indeed. The address of the old office was kept quiet for security
> reasons, but the address of the new office has always been
> publicly available. To give him the benefit of the tiniest bit of
> doubt, he might have written it while the WMF was in the old office
> and just taken a long time to submit it to the court and not
> thought to check it was still true. There has been a phone number
> available for years, though.
Might I also offer that "kept quiet" does not negate "offered up to
anyone who phoned up and asked for it."  In reality, it was simply not
publicized; but it was generally fairly easy to get.

- -- 
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Thomas Dalton]

On 22 July 2010 10:59, K. Peachey  wrote:
> So what is the back story to all of this? and can someone do a tldr
> version of the first link?

You have the read the original to truly appreciate it.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[K. Peachey]

So what is the back story to all of this? and can someone do a tldr
version of the first link?
-Peachey

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Victor Vasiliev]

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
> he might have written it while the WMF was in the old office

He was blocked in February 2010.

--vvv

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Shane Simmons]

It's merely a response to him being blocked from editing for legal threats.
He tried to make good on them and failed.[1]

According to the article on him he is "a former U.S. federal prison
inmate"[2]. If the article is accurate, I feel a little bit bad for him...
Also looks like he's written a book called "Extraterrestrials And Sex"[3]. I
can only wonder why.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Russelldansmith

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Smith_(prisoner_activist)

[3] http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.aspx?bookid=45930


On 7/21/10, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
>
> On 21 July 2010 20:01, Bod Notbod  wrote:
> > The petition states that the Foundation cannot be traced to a physical
> > address. That can't be right, can it? And then he signs at the bottom
> > which warns that - if he knowingly states a falsehood - he commits
> > perjury; so if he *is* aware that the Foundation has an address he has
> > perjured himself.
> >
> > Googling "Wikimedia Foundation" gives you as top hit the site you
> > would expect and as soon as you click "contact us" you are given the
> > Foundation's address.
>
>
> Indeed. The address of the old office was kept quiet for security
> reasons, but the address of the new office has always been publicly
> available. To give him the benefit of the tiniest bit of doubt, he
> might have written it while the WMF was in the old office and just
> taken a long time to submit it to the court and not thought to check
> it was still true. There has been a phone number available for years,
> though.
>
>
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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Thomas Dalton]

On 21 July 2010 20:01, Bod Notbod  wrote:
> The petition states that the Foundation cannot be traced to a physical
> address. That can't be right, can it? And then he signs at the bottom
> which warns that - if he knowingly states a falsehood - he commits
> perjury; so if he *is* aware that the Foundation has an address he has
> perjured himself.
>
> Googling "Wikimedia Foundation" gives you as top hit the site you
> would expect and as soon as you click "contact us" you are given the
> Foundation's address.

Indeed. The address of the old office was kept quiet for security
reasons, but the address of the new office has always been publicly
available. To give him the benefit of the tiniest bit of doubt, he
might have written it while the WMF was in the old office and just
taken a long time to submit it to the court and not thought to check
it was still true. There has been a phone number available for years,
though.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Bod Notbod]

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
>
> That's great fun! If I had more faith in humanity, I'd assume it was
> somebody's idea of a joke... (a joke which wastes the court's time, at
> that).

The petition states that the Foundation cannot be traced to a physical
address. That can't be right, can it? And then he signs at the bottom
which warns that - if he knowingly states a falsehood - he commits
perjury; so if he *is* aware that the Foundation has an address he has
perjured himself.

Googling "Wikimedia Foundation" gives you as top hit the site you
would expect and as soon as you click "contact us" you are given the
Foundation's address.

Sigh.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[Thomas Dalton]

On 21 July 2010 14:35, David Gerard  wrote:
>  http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/wikipediadown/message/2

That's great fun! If I had more faith in humanity, I'd assume it was
somebody's idea of a joke... (a joke which wastes the court's time, at
that).

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Re: [WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[David Gerard]

On 21 July 2010 14:35, David Gerard  wrote:

>  http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/wikipediadown/message/2


Court: "go away."
https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2010cv0609-3
(PDF)


- d.

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[WikiEN-l] ZOMG Wikipedia is TERRORIST!!1!1!!!!

[David Gerard]

 http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/wikipediadown/message/2

[spotted by Mathias]


- d.

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