Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
It's information I learned from a professional volcanologist several years back, so given the time frame, I'd say there's room for a flaw in my memory. Upon a quick check of [[Typhoon]] and of [[Tsunami]], it appears my memory failed me. ;-) Heh, I didn't do well in that class, anyway. Bob On 3/16/2011 1:34 AM, Carcharoth wrote: > On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Bob the Wikipedian > wrote: >> I'm not sure how helpful it is, but yesteryear's word for "tsunami" was >> "typhoon". You might consider searching for typhoons as well. > I'm not sure that is correct. Typhoons are hurricanes. Are you > thinking of "tidal wave"? They aren't that either, but I saw another > Wikipedian using the term tidal wave and I cringed. Apologies if that > Wikipedian is reading this! :-) > > Carcharoth > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
I was just about to post the suggestion on the Naming Conventions talk page. I agree with Carcharoth and Nathan, we shouldn't be covering the causes of ALL tsunamis in the article title if both have caused significant and widespread damage, squashing the information into the 1 article doesn't allow for informative coverage of the events. -- -Ancient Apparition English Wikipedia Abuse Response and Account Creations team member. http://toolserver.org/~acc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Abuse_response ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Nathan wrote: > The naming conventions page seems to be the best place to discuss it. Yeah, I'll post there. Just one more post here... > I'm with Ian that a rigid convention for naming these articles is > unnecessary and perhaps counterproductive. Everything is caused by > something else, and there are reasonable arguments for varying between > 'earthquake' 'earthquake and tsunami' and 'tsunami' in article titles > based on the circumstances each describe. I've just remembered this example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_eruption_of_Nevado_del_Ruiz Which redirects to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armero_tragedy And for this earthquake: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Ancash_earthquake There is only the article on the destroyed city at the moment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yungay,_Peru So I'm leaning towards the viewpoint that "2004 Indian Ocean tsunami" (without earthquake) is best. And for the earthquake to be split off to its own article (preferably titled 'Great Sumatra-Andaman Earthquake'). This would mean that in subsidiary articles where people currently write "following the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami of 2004", they would instead write "following the Great Sumatra-Andaman Earthquake and the resulting Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004", and there would be two links instead of one (if you look at the article, a split is not impossible and in some ways would help). There is actually a fairly well established de facto naming convention for earthquakes that includes the year and location. But it is complicated by the fact that some earthquakes are 'Great' and the year then gets dropped. But it seems nearly all our earthquake article titles have been standardised, and surprisingly the wiki didn't fall apart (I'm being slightly sarcastic here). Of course, things staying the way they are would also work just as well. Carcharoth ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
The naming conventions page seems to be the best place to discuss it. I'm with Ian that a rigid convention for naming these articles is unnecessary and perhaps counterproductive. Everything is caused by something else, and there are reasonable arguments for varying between 'earthquake' 'earthquake and tsunami' and 'tsunami' in article titles based on the circumstances each describe. Nathan ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
Who said they all come from earthquakes? I was very careful *not* to say that (and I was careful to include a volcanic eruption and a landslide in my examples). I've re-read the thread and I can't see anyone saying they all come from earthquakes? Or are you just emphasising a point that has already been made? Carcharoth On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:26 AM, George Herbert wrote: > They don't all come from earthquakes; they can come from underwater > volcanic activity or landslides. > > The landslide may not have a significant felt earthquake associated > with it. It's not tectonic per se. > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:23 AM, wrote: >> I think that a proposal should be put forward at the Naming Conventions >> talk page, if enough consensus for the proposal - which I wholeheartedly >> agree with - then perhaps us WikiGnomes would have something to do again :P >> (yeah, like there's nothing 'Gnomish to do on Wikipedia). Carcharoth raised >> a very good point, which for the life of me I don't know why we didn't >> already do this, tsunamis are definitely not events that occur out of >> nowhere... >> ___ >> WikiEN-l mailing list >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l >> > > > > -- > -george william herbert > george.herb...@gmail.com > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
They don't all come from earthquakes; they can come from underwater volcanic activity or landslides. The landslide may not have a significant felt earthquake associated with it. It's not tectonic per se. On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:23 AM, wrote: > I think that a proposal should be put forward at the Naming Conventions > talk page, if enough consensus for the proposal - which I wholeheartedly > agree with - then perhaps us WikiGnomes would have something to do again :P > (yeah, like there's nothing 'Gnomish to do on Wikipedia). Carcharoth raised > a very good point, which for the life of me I don't know why we didn't > already do this, tsunamis are definitely not events that occur out of > nowhere... > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
I think that a proposal should be put forward at the Naming Conventions talk page, if enough consensus for the proposal - which I wholeheartedly agree with - then perhaps us WikiGnomes would have something to do again :P (yeah, like there's nothing 'Gnomish to do on Wikipedia). Carcharoth raised a very good point, which for the life of me I don't know why we didn't already do this, tsunamis are definitely not events that occur out of nowhere... ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:46 PM, Bob the Wikipedian wrote: > I'm not sure how helpful it is, but yesteryear's word for "tsunami" was > "typhoon". You might consider searching for typhoons as well. I'm not sure that is correct. Typhoons are hurricanes. Are you thinking of "tidal wave"? They aren't that either, but I saw another Wikipedian using the term tidal wave and I cringed. Apologies if that Wikipedian is reading this! :-) Carcharoth ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Ian Woollard wrote: > If you try to make article titles systematic it actually makes things > harder to find, because most people use terms to search that the topic > is best known by, by definition. That is demonstrably false, as if you search for a name that exists as a redirect, the search results give you the redirect destination. As long as you have the correct redirects in place, searching is not affected by the article title. Carcharoth ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
On 15/03/2011, Carcharoth wrote: > However, it seems a bit of a mess at the moment. In a sense, but it's deliberate. > There are other disasters that take the form of causative event > followed by an effect that causes the most destruction. The two > examples I've seen used are Hurricane Katrina, where the storm surge > and flooding caused most of the damage (though almost any hurricane > that size that hits land will cause a storm surge and flooding) and > the firestorm that can take hold after some earthquakes (notably the > 1906 San Francisco Earthquake). > > On other words, tsunami are not something that occur by themselves. > They are caused by something, and I'm not sure that the currently > evolving practice of tacking tsunami onto the end of the title of > articles about the causative event is the right approach. The Wikipedia's approach is that article titles are not systematically generated; they're determined by how they're best known, which is often fairly arbitrary. If you try to make article titles systematic it actually makes things harder to find, because most people use terms to search that the topic is best known by, by definition. > Carcharoth -- -Ian Woollard ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Tsunamis and disaster articles
I'm not sure how helpful it is, but yesteryear's word for "tsunami" was "typhoon". You might consider searching for typhoons as well. Bob On 3/15/2011 9:42 AM, Carcharoth wrote: > Would anyone be able to help me track down examples of articles that > cover two or more things on the same page? I'm trying to work out why > we have articles that include "tsunami" in the titles, when there are > many events throughout history that caused tsunamis that don't include > that in the title. I tried searching for "and" in the title and found > these examples: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Sendai_earthquake_and_tsunami > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2010_Sumatra_earthquake_and_tsunami > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/869_Sanriku_earthquake_and_tsunami > > But there are many other examples of tsunamis not "attached" to the > event that caused them. > > Most are here: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_tsunamis > > Articles on some of the causative events of the tsunami listed in that > article are: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1700_Cascadia_earthquake > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansei_Great_Earthquakes > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1908_Messina_earthquake > > There are also some tsunami with their own articles and none on the cause: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1771_Great_Yaeyama_Tsunami > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Severo-Kurilsk_tsunami > > Ones caused by landslides are arguably correctly given their own article: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Lituya_Bay_megatsunami > > However, it seems a bit of a mess at the moment. > > There are other disasters that take the form of causative event > followed by an effect that causes the most destruction. The two > examples I've seen used are Hurricane Katrina, where the storm surge > and flooding caused most of the damage (though almost any hurricane > that size that hits land will cause a storm surge and flooding) and > the firestorm that can take hold after some earthquakes (notably the > 1906 San Francisco Earthquake). > > On other words, tsunami are not something that occur by themselves. > They are caused by something, and I'm not sure that the currently > evolving practice of tacking tsunami onto the end of the title of > articles about the causative event is the right approach. It seems to > be a recent approach, and I'm not entirely sure where the best place > is to discuss this, as individual renaming discussions don't seem the > best place to get an overview of the whole effect. Where is the best > place to discuss naming conventions if no specific guidance exists? > Would it be the talk page of the 'Article titles' policy, or would a > more specific place (the 'events' naming guideline) be better? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_%28events%29 > > Carcharoth > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
