[Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Decision of WLM in Ukraine organizers not to submit photos for the international round

[Željko Blaće]

Dear Olga and WLM Ukraine - your work is impressive and your efforts to
bring visibility and point to issues with WLM in 2022 are also.

I can empathize with the feeling one gets when others are benevolent to
recognize and act on what seems obvious *(as  someone who experienced war
aggression in all of my homelands, first SFR Yugoslavia, then Croatia and
Bosnia & Herzegovina. I do agree that the WLM 2022 international team
should not process Russian photos in a competitive way against Ukrainians
and I wish this was raised as an issue more publicly. WLM had issues also
before with inertia and no capacity and/or good will to recognize problems
on national levels. Here I agree with Peter on* no good options *but this
is no excuse for not exploring good-enough or better-than options!

I am hopeful that your work will sustain and that soon enough you will
inform and inspire systemic change in Wikimedia.
Meanwhile I hope WMF can practically support your work at least with
material resources to reduce some of the hardships.

In solidarity - Z. Blace
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[Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Wiki Loves.... Wikidata!

[Željko Blaće]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022, Ciell Wikipedia 
wrote:

> Hi Željko,
>
> It is true we welcome all monuments that are recognized (either national
> or more local) into Wikidata!
> However, Wiki Loves Monuments has a "one country, one competition" set up.
> Providing more information about importing the data on built heritage to
> Wikidata and how to create Wikipedia lists and use the data for the WLM
> tools, does not change this.
> I am sorry if this has led to any confusion.
>


Not at all…confusion was never with tech (I myself in these
discussions pushed for Wikidata to be central), but it was selective
interpretations with UK competitions, Catalan, Republika Srpska and few
others, but I can wait for our change for a bit more to accomodate
different logic and needs.

Best - Z.



>
> Best,
> Ciell
>
>
> Op di 4 okt. 2022 om 16:20 schreef Željko Blaće :
>
>> True. Nicolas you and few others were a part of it, but when I first
>> wanted to do regional WLM it was blocked as only national competitions were
>> an option (+ global that stopped working) and with Wikipedia organizers
>> (which in Croatia meant with people that are rightwingers, but guess not
>> only).
>> Consequently I gave up, but if Wikidata is enough (sure it would be
>> sourced, not invented) then this gives more freedom to those who wanna do
>> sub-national or trans-regional WLM...No?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 3:05 PM Nicolas VIGNERON <
>> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm very confused too. This blogpost is directly in line with what we've
>>> been doing for at least 7-8 years... (see for instance the 5 years old
>>> example given in the blogpost and multiple pages on Commons, WLM and/or
>>> Wikidata).
>>> Where is the « change »? What does « 2,5 years ago it sounded like no-go
>>> » mean here?
>>>
>>> That said, it's not perfect nor 100% Wikidata-compliant-usable, we still
>>> need to work and improve things but we'll get there eventually. Thanks to
>>> everyone who is working on it (especially - but not only - at WMSE ;) ).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> ~nicolas
>>>
>>> Le mar. 4 oct. 2022 à 12:51, Ciell Wikipedia 
>>> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi Željko,
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure what change you are referring to: for Wikidata, also a
>>>> reliable and trustworthy source is needed?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Ciell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Op di 4 okt. 2022 om 07:40 schreef Željko Blaće :
>>>>
>>>>> Nice to see this change in sourcing within WLM!
>>>>> Only 2,5 years ago it sounded like no-go...
>>>>> Thanks to Alex for the guest blog-post
>>>>> and WM SE offering help!
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[Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Wiki Loves.... Wikidata!

[Željko Blaće]

True. Nicolas you and few others were a part of it, but when I first wanted
to do regional WLM it was blocked as only national competitions were an
option (+ global that stopped working) and with Wikipedia organizers (which
in Croatia meant with people that are rightwingers, but guess not only).
Consequently I gave up, but if Wikidata is enough (sure it would be
sourced, not invented) then this gives more freedom to those who wanna do
sub-national or trans-regional WLM...No?

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 3:05 PM Nicolas VIGNERON 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm very confused too. This blogpost is directly in line with what we've
> been doing for at least 7-8 years... (see for instance the 5 years old
> example given in the blogpost and multiple pages on Commons, WLM and/or
> Wikidata).
> Where is the « change »? What does « 2,5 years ago it sounded like no-go »
> mean here?
>
> That said, it's not perfect nor 100% Wikidata-compliant-usable, we still
> need to work and improve things but we'll get there eventually. Thanks to
> everyone who is working on it (especially - but not only - at WMSE ;) ).
>
> Cheers,
> ~nicolas
>
> Le mar. 4 oct. 2022 à 12:51, Ciell Wikipedia 
> a écrit :
>
>> Hi Željko,
>>
>> I am not sure what change you are referring to: for Wikidata, also a
>> reliable and trustworthy source is needed?
>>
>> Best,
>> Ciell
>>
>>
>> Op di 4 okt. 2022 om 07:40 schreef Željko Blaće :
>>
>>> Nice to see this change in sourcing within WLM!
>>> Only 2,5 years ago it sounded like no-go...
>>> Thanks to Alex for the guest blog-post
>>> and WM SE offering help!
>>> ___
>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>> wikilovesmonuments-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>>
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>
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[Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Wiki Loves.... Wikidata!

[Željko Blaće]

Nice to see this change in sourcing within WLM!
Only 2,5 years ago it sounded like no-go...
Thanks to Alex for the guest blog-post
and WM SE offering help!
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[Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Welcome Manfred & the WLM 2022 timeline

[Željko Blaće]

On Thursday, July 21, 2022, Ciell Wikipedia 
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I know that some of you are already very enthusiastically working on
> organising WLM 2022, and so is the international team!
>
> The WMF granted our request for Wiki Loves Monuments 2022-2023 so we are
> good to go for another year, and we are very happy that this year Manfred
> Werner will actively be supporting the international team as our part-time
> staff. Manfred was previously already involved in our finances and is a
> staff member of Wikimedia Austria, our fiscal sponsor. Welcome Manfred!
>
> In our last bi-weekly meeting, the international team reviewed the timeline
> of WLM 2022
> ,
> and we would like to ask you to do the same. Historically, we organised WLM
> in September, but in 2020, because of the pandemic, the competition period
> was extended to 3 months (Sept, Oct, Nov).
> Last year, the two months in which you can choose any period up to a
> maximum of 31 days for your national competition, was September 1st -
> October 31st. Would this be okay to do again this year?
> And the deadline of December 5th for the submission to the international
> jury (sending your national top 10 to the international team), was this a
> reasonable time frame?
>
> Best,
> Ciell
>

Are there any updates in regards to regional (sub-and-supra+national)
competitions?
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[Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Announcing WLM Office Hours

[Željko Blaće]

Was there much research done? I fear that processing so slowly (too few
paid hours?) and if presented so late will not be beneficial for 2022, with
2023 being too far on the other end?

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 12:49 PM Ciell Wikipedia 
wrote:

> "The first point of DEI research and the future of WLM will be the
> main talking point in the upcoming January office hour"
> Sorry: not the *main talking point*, but *one of the talking points* of
> course.
>
> Vriendelijke groet,
> Ciell
>
>
> Op za 22 jan. 2022 om 12:37 schreef Ciell Wikipedia <
> ciell.wikipe...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hello Paulo and Mykolo,
>>
>> Thank you for your suggestions.
>>
>> @Paulo: We talked about tool support briefly yesterday in the bi-weekly
>> meeting of the international team, and we are aware there are several tools
>> that need fixes or updates. The international team could really use  some
>> extra support from volunteer Wikimedians who would be willing to take up or
>> mentor (parts of) these projects. I tried to summarize the different tasks
>> in the team on the organizers 2022 page on Commons
>> :
>> please let us know if you are willing to help out.
>> For Listeria: since more and more national communities are working on
>> processing the Wikipedia lists of monuments into Wikidata, it would be very
>> interesting to hear of and brainstorm on fixes together. In the meantime
>> the maintenance and development of this tool is done by MagnusManske, as
>> you may know, and bug reports or feature requests for all Magnus' tools can
>> at the moment best be reported in github
>> , so please also
>> report your experiences there. I recognize this may not be the most helpful
>> answer for you yet, and do see how this is causing problems for the
>> usefulness of Listeria's in WLM.
>>
>> @Mykolo: These are also definitely relevant points to talk about. Mesha
>> will be working on the DEI research for about another 4-5 months: we have
>> several ideas on how to move forward from the interviews, and how to ensure
>> the recommendations from the research can be integrated to the fullest into
>> our competition. We have asked her to share midterm results with the
>> international team before we need to start drafting the WLM 2022 grant
>> request, and this is also a good moment to look back at the 2021
>> competition. Input from the national organizers would really be appreciated
>> for both, yes! The first point of DEI research and the future of WLM will
>> be the main talking point in the upcoming January office hour; an office
>> hour to look back to WLM 2021 and forward to WLM 2022 will be scheduled
>> when we have received more information on the new grant application process
>> from the WMF.
>>
>> Vriendelijke groet,
>> Ciell
>>
>>
>> Op wo 19 jan. 2022 om 23:44 schreef Mykola Kozlenko :
>>
>>> Hi Ciell,
>>>
>>> I think it would be interesting to have a feedback on the DEI analysis -
>>> of course if there is any, if none it can wait some later office hours.
>>>
>>> Otherwise I think we should have an update on where we stand on
>>> international results, and a reflection on what went well and what can be
>>> done better in 2022.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mykola (NickK)
>>>
>>> *19 січня 2022, 20:47:08, від "Ciell Wikipedia"
>>> >: *
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> It’s time to pick up the WLM Office Hours again. During these office
>>> hours you can expect to talk with other WLM organizers about different
>>> aspects of organizing the WLM competition.
>>>
>>> We’ll start this year off with a first block (in 2 time slots to allow
>>> optimal geographic coverage) on the research for DEI en are looking forward
>>> to discussing issues of accessibility and disparity of resources, changing
>>> local cultural contexts related to monuments/heritage, government or
>>> bureaucratic restrictions to participation, and other such issues that
>>> hinder inclusivity and diversity in WLM.
>>>
>>> Please join us on the weekend of 29 and 30 January for an exchange of
>>> experiences, after a brief introduction/presentation by Mesha (a researcher
>>> that supports the international team). Whether you have experiences to
>>> share, or are just curious about Wiki Loves Monuments and the research,
>>> please join us for the call.
>>>
>>> When: Sat. 29 Jan 9:00 am (UTC) *and* Sun. 30 Jan 18.00 (UTC)
>>> Where: Google Meet
>>>
>>> We would appreciate it if you could indicate your interest on this page
>>> on Commons
>>> :
>>> 12 hours before the start of the office hour we will share the link for the
>>> call on this page.
>>>
>>> On a final note: the international team will be planning more office
>>> hours again and we have some ideas about the topics that could be covered,
>>> but we of course would like to hear if you have ideas about 

[Wiki Loves Monuments] Re: Issue with country codes for WLM 2021 template

[Željko Blaće]

Is it still impossble for organizers to approve regional / non-national
competitions?

Best Z

On Thursday, August 12, 2021, effe iets anders 
wrote:

> As background: Josephine is working on the commons app.
>
> Josephine, what you're looking for is something machine readable. The
> template could work, but an easier way for you may be to somehow get to the
> content of this page:
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Module:WL_data
>
> That is also more sustainable for future campaigns. It may be occasionally
> a bit out of date, but generally is correct.
>
> Best,
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 8:28 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josephine,
>>
>> The list of participating countries can be found here -
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_
>> Monuments_2021/Participating_countries
>>
>> The template (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Wiki_Loves_
>> Monuments_2021) is not also updated according the list mentioned above.
>> Looks like, it is just a copy of previous year's competition and needs
>> update. Australia is still not willing to participate in the competition
>> this year, so maybe it will not end up in this template.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bodhisattwa
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 20:28, Philip Kopetzky 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Josephine,
>>>
>>> this depends on the values defined in the template itself:
>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:
>>> Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2021=edit - Australia doesn't exist (yet),
>>> but IE does.
>>>
>>> I must say though that this kind of upload circumvents the
>>> categorisation work and assigning the correct heritage ID that is currently
>>> done in quite a few countries. Wikidata-Items with a linked commons
>>> category are easy, but the majority of objects will not have its own
>>> category and just dumping them in a WLM category puts the workload on other
>>> people. There are countries where the template accepts the Wikidata-ID, but
>>> ideally the upload link would use the country's wlm capaign and assign the
>>> heritage ID as a parameter.
>>>
>>> BR,
>>> Philip
>>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 16:32, Josephine Lim 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 Just a quick question about the WLM 2021 template that we are trying to
 add to WLM uploads made via the Commons app. We currently retrieve the
 country that a monument is in, then convert it to the two-letter country
 code and insert it into the template.

 However we are still getting errors; as shown at
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Newstead_Gasworks_4.jpg , I
 have uploaded a test image with the template {{Wiki Loves Monuments 2021
 |1= au}} but the page says "English: No or incorrect country code indicated
 in the {{Wiki Loves Monuments 2021}} template". I have experimented with
 various other country codes listed at https://commons.wikimedia.org/
 wiki/Template:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_country_logos ; interestingly some
 like "al" or "ad" do not work, but "ie" does.

 TLDR: Does the template only accept some countries and not others,
 perhaps only countries participating in WLM 2021? Is it possible for us to
 get a machine-readable list of these countries?

 Thanks!

 Best regards,
 Josephine
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Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments project grant for 2021 coordination

[Željko Blaće]

Dear Krishna and WLM 2021 team - thank you for the reminder but it is
disappointing to see that you stripped from the budget the
international part of competition and that you did not address
questions on the talk page I raised + proposals I made in the first
meeting you organized. Considering the setup I think it is going to be
hard to do much about 'exploring rest of the world competition'. Best
Z. Blace

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 8:06 PM Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
 wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Wiki Loves Monuments international team has proposed a project grant to the 
> Wikimedia Foundation to support coordination for 2021's campaign.
>
> The proposal is at 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Wiki_Loves_Monuments_international_team/2021_coordination.
>
> While most of the grant is about the general support and coordination of the 
> project, we have formed a few focus areas for this project period, which are 
> listed under the project goal's section.
>
> Thank you,
> Krishna Chaitanya
> on behalf of the International Team
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