Re: [Wikimedia-l] Joint office Jakarta - Wikimedia Indonesia, HOT Open Street Map, and World Wide Web Foundation

[Pine W]

Thanks Isabella. I might want to talk with you or someone else at Wikimedia
Indonesia about the relationship of the chapter to OpenStreetMap more in
the future. OpenStreetMap is active in what I am hoping will become
Wikimedia Cascadia territory and we have already made first contact with
one of the OSM organizers. It might also be nice to hear from WMF about how
their plans for improving mapping functions in the next fiscal year could
tie into work with OpenStreetMap. Maybe someone could organize an office
hour about the roadmap for location tools. I'm also sending this email to
Quim Gil to see if an office hour is feasible.

Pine




On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Isabella Apriyana <
isabella.apriy...@wikimedia.or.id> wrote:

> Hi Pine,
>
> Every organization has their own administrative staff. WMID only has
> project-based paid staff and the rest are volunteers, while other
> organizations have full time paid-staff. While for programs, WMID and
> HOT-OSM just recently secured a grant from Make All Voices Count [1] to
> conduct local open content mapping and encyclopedia writing in Kalimantan,
> a generally remote and underdeveloped area in Indonesia.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Isabella
>
> Ref:
> [1]
>
> http://www.makingallvoicescount.org/project/open-content-in-kalimantan-wikipedia-openstreetmap-for-transparency/
> .
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 1:38 AM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > Oh, I like hearing about collaborations like this! We are working on
> > collaborations with other open source groups here in United States
> Cascadia
> > also. (The existence of our Cascadia group is pending approval from
> > Affcom.)
> >
> > In addition to sharing a building, are you sharing administrative staff
> or
> > other resources? What programmatic collaborations are you developing?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Pine
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Nurunnaby Chowdhury 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Congratulation
> > > ​ Wikimedia Indonesia!
> > >
> > > ​--
> > > Nurunnaby Chowdhury | @nhasive
> > > Sysop, Bengali Wikipedia | User: Nhasive
> > > Member, IEG, WMF
> > > Sent from my iPhone device​
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Cristian Consonni <
> > > kikkocrist...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > 2014-06-23 13:28 GMT+02:00 Tonmoy Khan :
> > > > > Congratulations to WMID. Wish you do wonderful activities from your
> > new
> > > > > address :)
> > > >
> > > > Go WM-ID! Go!
> > > >
> > > > Congrats!
> > > >
> > > > Cristian
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > ___
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> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Isabella Apriyana*
> *Wakil Sekretaris Jendral*
>
> *(Deputy Secretary General)Wikimedia Indonesia*
> Seluler +628889752858/ +6281213700084
> Surel isabella.apriy...@wikimedia.or.id
>
> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan!
> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
>
> Support us to free the knowledge!
> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
> ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Joint office Jakarta - Wikimedia Indonesia, HOT Open Street Map, and World Wide Web Foundation

[Isabella Apriyana]

Hi Pine,

Every organization has their own administrative staff. WMID only has
project-based paid staff and the rest are volunteers, while other
organizations have full time paid-staff. While for programs, WMID and
HOT-OSM just recently secured a grant from Make All Voices Count [1] to
conduct local open content mapping and encyclopedia writing in Kalimantan,
a generally remote and underdeveloped area in Indonesia.


Cheers,
Isabella

Ref:
[1]
http://www.makingallvoicescount.org/project/open-content-in-kalimantan-wikipedia-openstreetmap-for-transparency/
.



On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 1:38 AM, Pine W  wrote:

> Oh, I like hearing about collaborations like this! We are working on
> collaborations with other open source groups here in United States Cascadia
> also. (The existence of our Cascadia group is pending approval from
> Affcom.)
>
> In addition to sharing a building, are you sharing administrative staff or
> other resources? What programmatic collaborations are you developing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Nurunnaby Chowdhury 
> wrote:
>
> > Congratulation
> > ​ Wikimedia Indonesia!
> >
> > ​--
> > Nurunnaby Chowdhury | @nhasive
> > Sysop, Bengali Wikipedia | User: Nhasive
> > Member, IEG, WMF
> > Sent from my iPhone device​
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Cristian Consonni <
> > kikkocrist...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > 2014-06-23 13:28 GMT+02:00 Tonmoy Khan :
> > > > Congratulations to WMID. Wish you do wonderful activities from your
> new
> > > > address :)
> > >
> > > Go WM-ID! Go!
> > >
> > > Congrats!
> > >
> > > Cristian
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > 
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> 




-- 
*Isabella Apriyana*
*Wakil Sekretaris Jendral*

*(Deputy Secretary General)Wikimedia Indonesia*
Seluler +628889752858/ +6281213700084
Surel isabella.apriy...@wikimedia.or.id

Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan!
http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi

Support us to free the knowledge!
http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
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[Wikimedia-l] Vietnamese wp above 1 M articles and growing

[Anders Wennersten]

One of our most interesting projects, Vietnamese Wikipedia has now 
passed 1 M articles and has a growth just now  of almost 100k/month


They use a clever bot named Cheer!-bot to generate a lot of very good 
articles. In some ways it is stronger then Lsjbot (covering more then 
spececies) but I do prefer that Lsjbot marks the generated articles with 
a template indicating they are botgenerated


start page: https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trang_Ch%C3%ADnh

Cheer-bot! generated articles (just now working on species like Lsjbot) 
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90%E1%BA%B7c_bi%E1%BB%87t:%C4%90%C3%B3ng_g%C3%B3p/Cheers!-bot


Statistics up to April 
http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaVI.htm notice active 
generating around one year from now


As I said a lot of times, I believe it is a weakness we are not making 
use of the many excellent inititves taking place on less well known 
verisons (like the lithuanian I mentioned some time ago). I am not even 
sure there are any from viwp acrtive on this list.


Also I  recommend you to look through the content of viwp by using the  
use the Random article feature Bài vie^'t nga^~u nhiên 



Anders


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mobile Operator IP Drift Tracking and Remediation

[Adam Baso]

One wrinkle we've encountered and sort of expected, is that the SIM card
MCC-MNC doesn't always match the actual network MCC-MNC. So on Android,
we'll add both to the payload so that we can differentiate them. On iOS it
looks like the API only currently allows one of these values through an
opaque method call. The previous EventLogging server side code wasn't
logging the User-Agent (defined coarsely in our code on both platforms).
I'm thinking to make it evident when we're dealing with an iOS version of
the app, it would make most sense to re-enable the User-Agent so we can
pick up this coarse-grained value. I wanted to put this User-Agent item out
here for a brief period before adding the code, though.

-Adam




On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Adam Baso  wrote:

> Okay, the code is in place in the alphas of both the Android and iOS apps,
> and the server-side 2% sampling (extra header in HTTPS request sent once
> per cellular app session) is working.
>
>
> https://git.wikimedia.org/commitdiff/apps%2Fandroid%2Fwikipedia.git/8b4a0c3b170d6bf1a8f8141d93dfc60416ae4e2b
>
>
> https://git.wikimedia.org/commitdiff/apps%2Fios%2Fwikipedia.git/59cde497921bc6d2c28e3967c24f0316dfedf3ce
>
>
> https://git.wikimedia.org/commitdiff/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FZeroRatedMobileAccess.git/df3da0b3fa564ae27d33cd1b82f81df12a5ed287
>
> Changes to event logging in the iOS alpha app (internal only at the
> moment, although repo can be cloned and run in the Xcode simulator) are
> coming pretty soon, and once those are in, we'll make one last tweak there
> to have the app not add the extra MCC/MNC header on that single request per
> cellular connection when logging is turned off in the iOS alpha app. That
> part is done in the Android app already.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Adam Baso  wrote:
>
>> Federico asked if sampling might make sense here. I think it will work,
>> so I've updated the patchset.
>>
>> From a patchset comment I provided:
>>
>> "It's possible we may have situations where operators have not lots of
>> users on them accessing Wiki(m|p)edia properties, so we do run some risk of
>> actually missing IPs, even if exit IPs are concentrators of typically large
>> sets of users. That said, let's try a 2% sample ratio; and if we find out
>> it's insufficient, then we'll sample more, if it's oversampling, then we
>> can adjust the other way, too. New patchset arriving shortly."
>>
>> (I've since submitted the updated code for review.)
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Adam Baso  wrote:
>>
>>> After examining this, it looks like EventLogging is more suited to the
>>> logging task than debug logging and the trappings of needing to alter debug
>>> logging in the core MediaWiki software.
>>>
>>> EventLogging logs at the resolution of a second (instead of a day), but
>>> has inbuilt support for record removal after 90 days.
>>>
>>> Please do let us know in case of further questions. Here's the logging
>>> schema for those with an interest:
>>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Schema:MobileOperatorCode
>>>
>>> Here's the relevant server code:
>>>
>>> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/130991/
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Adam Baso  wrote:
>>>
 Great idea!

 Anyone on the list know if there's a way to make the debug log
 facilities do the MMDD timestamp instead of the longer one?

 If not, I suppose we could work to update the core MediaWiki code. [1]

 -Adam

 1. For those with PHP skills or equivalent, I'm referring to
 https://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Fcore.git/a26687e81532def3faba64612ce79b701a13949e/includes%2FGlobalFunctions.php#L1042.
 Scroll to the bottom of the function definition to see the datetimestamp
 approach.


 On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Andrew Gray <
 andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>
> One thought: you don't really need the date/time data at any detailed
> resolution, do you? If what you're wanting it for is to track major
> changes ("last month it all switched to this IP") and to purge old
> data ("delete anything older than 10 March"), you could simply log day
> rather than datetime.
>
> enwiki / 127.0.0.1 / 123.45 / 2014-04-16:1245.45
>
> enwiki / 127.0.0.1 / 123.45 / 2014-04-16
>
> - the latter gives you the data you need while making it a lot harder
> to do any kind of close user-identification.
>
> Andrew.
> On 16 Apr 2014 19:17, "Adam Baso"  wrote:
>
> > Inline.
> >
> > Thanks for starting this thread.
> > >
> > > Sorry if I've overlooked this, but who/what will have access to
> this
> > data?
> > > Only members of the mobile team? Local project CheckUsers?
> Wikimedia
> > > Foundation-approved researchers? Wikimedia shell users? AbuseFilter
> > > filters?
> > >
> >
> > It's a good question. 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wicnik reminder

[R W]

Brilliant idea !!

Therefore we organize also a Wicnik in the south of Netherlands, so also
Belgians, Germans and whoever is in the neighbourhood can join!

With sun outside, with rain inside. Dutch pancakes will be baked and
stroopwafels will be available. Would be nice if everyone brings some food,
drink and more with him/her to share.

Time: 13:00 - 17:00 (and later)
Address: Dominee Theodor Fliednerstraat‎, 5631 BM Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Coördinates: 51.455585, 5.488054
Distance: 15 minutes walk from train station Eindhoven + 2 bus stops
By car: 500 parking spaces

Signing up for it is welcomed, but not required:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ontmoeten#Zondag_6_juli:_Wiki-picknick_Eindhoven

If there are any questions: feel free to ask!

Romaine





2014-06-23 21:08 GMT+02:00 Pine W :

> This is a reminder mostly for US Wikimedians and US-based WMF office
> employees but also in case Wikimedians in other parts of the world want to
> join us.
>
> Wicnik, Wikimedia's annual summer picnic event, is happening again this
> year. Are you signed up to participate? Bring food, sports equipment,
> sunscreen, and/or your significant other(s).
>
>
> So far there are Wicniks planned for these locations:
>
> Cape Cod, Massachusetts - happened already
> New York City, New York - July 6
> Frederick, Maryland - July 6
> Washington, DC - July 13
> Detroit, Michigan - July 6
> Evansville/Bloomington, Indiana - date TBD
> Chicago, Illinois - July 12
> St Louis, Missouri - July 6
> St Paul, Minnesota - July 6
> Arvada, Colorado - July 6
> Seattle, Washington - July 6
> San Francisco, California - July 6
> Los Angeles, California - July 6
>
> Under discussion:
>
> Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
> Portland, Oregon
>
> Sign up at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wicnik
>
> Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] First _draft_ goals for WMF engineering/product

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Nathan, 23/06/2014 19:28:

it would be nice to see gender-gap related goals within
VisualEditor


Cf. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Gender_micro-survey

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediaus-l] Wicnik reminder

[Kevin Rutherford]

Hey all,

Just as a clarification for people, the Cape Cod event has yet to happen yet, 
as we cancelled it due to the possibility of inclement weather, and it ended up 
being an incredibly beautiful day. In light of that, it has been rescheduled to 
August 23rd.

Kevin

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 12:08:49 -0700
From: wiki.p...@gmail.com
To: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org; wikimediau...@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: [Wikimediaus-l] Wicnik reminder

This is a reminder mostly for US Wikimedians and US-based WMF office employees 
but also in case Wikimedians in other parts of the world want to join us.

Wicnik, Wikimedia's annual summer picnic event, is happening again this year. 
Are you signed up to participate? Bring food, sports equipment, sunscreen, 
and/or your significant other(s).



So far there are Wicniks planned for these locations:

Cape Cod, Massachusetts - happened already
New York City, New York - July 6
Frederick, Maryland  - July 6

Washington, DC  - July 13
Detroit, Michigan - July 6
Evansville/Bloomington, Indiana  - date TBD
Chicago, Illinois  - July 12
St Louis, Missouri  - July 6St Paul, Minnesota  - July 6
Arvada, Colorado  - July 6Seattle, Washington - July 6San Francisco, California 
- July 6
Los Angeles, California  - July 6

Under discussion:

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Portland, Oregon

Sign up at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wicnik

Pine


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[Wikimedia-l] Wicnik reminder

[Pine W]

This is a reminder mostly for US Wikimedians and US-based WMF office
employees but also in case Wikimedians in other parts of the world want to
join us.

Wicnik, Wikimedia's annual summer picnic event, is happening again this
year. Are you signed up to participate? Bring food, sports equipment,
sunscreen, and/or your significant other(s).


So far there are Wicniks planned for these locations:

Cape Cod, Massachusetts - happened already
New York City, New York - July 6
Frederick, Maryland - July 6
Washington, DC - July 13
Detroit, Michigan - July 6
Evansville/Bloomington, Indiana - date TBD
Chicago, Illinois - July 12
St Louis, Missouri - July 6
St Paul, Minnesota - July 6
Arvada, Colorado - July 6
Seattle, Washington - July 6
San Francisco, California - July 6
Los Angeles, California - July 6

Under discussion:

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Portland, Oregon

Sign up at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wicnik

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Joint office Jakarta - Wikimedia Indonesia, HOT Open Street Map, and World Wide Web Foundation

[Pine W]

Oh, I like hearing about collaborations like this! We are working on
collaborations with other open source groups here in United States Cascadia
also. (The existence of our Cascadia group is pending approval from Affcom.)

In addition to sharing a building, are you sharing administrative staff or
other resources? What programmatic collaborations are you developing?

Thanks,

Pine


On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Nurunnaby Chowdhury  wrote:

> Congratulation
> ​ Wikimedia Indonesia!
>
> ​--
> Nurunnaby Chowdhury | @nhasive
> Sysop, Bengali Wikipedia | User: Nhasive
> Member, IEG, WMF
> Sent from my iPhone device​
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Cristian Consonni <
> kikkocrist...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > 2014-06-23 13:28 GMT+02:00 Tonmoy Khan :
> > > Congratulations to WMID. Wish you do wonderful activities from your new
> > > address :)
> >
> > Go WM-ID! Go!
> >
> > Congrats!
> >
> > Cristian
> >
> > ___
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> > 
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] First _draft_ goals for WMF engineering/product

[Nathan]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Erik Moeller  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We've got the first DRAFT (sorry for shouting, but can't hurt to
> emphasize :)) of the annual goals for the engineering/product
> department up on mediawiki.org. We're now mid-point in the process,
> and will finalize through June.
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/2014-15_Goals
>
> Note that at this point in the process, teams have flagged
> inter-dependencies, but they've not necessarily been taken into
> account across the board, i.e. team A may say "We depend on X from
> team B" and team B may not have sufficiently accounted for X in its
> goals. :P Identifying common themes, shared dependencies, and
> counteracting silo tendencies is the main focus of the coming weeks.
> We may also add whole new sections for cross-functional efforts not
> currently reflected (e.g. UX standardization). Site performance will
> likely get its own section as well.
>
> My own focus will be on fleshing out the overall narrative, aligning
> around organization-wide objectives, and helping to manage scope.
>
> As far as quantitative targets are concerned, we will aim to set them
> where we have solid baselines and some prior experience to work with
> (a good example is Wikipedia Zero, where we now have lots of data to
> build targets from). Otherwise, though, our goal should be to _obtain_
> metrics that we want to track and build targets from. This, in itself,
> is a goal that needs to be reflected, including expectations e.g. from
> Analytics.
>
> Like last year, these goals won't be set in stone. At least on a
> quarterly basis, we'll update them to reflect what we're learning.
> Some areas (e.g. scary new features like Flow) are more likely to be
> significantly revised than others.
>
> With this in mind: Please leave any comments/questions on the talk
> page (not here). Collectively we're smarter than on our own, so we do
> appreciate honest feedback:
>
> - What are our blind spots? Obvious, really high priority things we're
> not paying sufficient attention to?
>
> - Where are we taking on too much? Which projects/goals make no sense
> to you and require a stronger rationale, if they're to be undertaken at
> all?
>
> - Which projects are a Big Deal from a community perspective, or from
> an architecture perspective, and need to be carefully coordinated?
>
> These are all conversations we'll have in coming weeks, but public
> feedback is very helpful and may trigger conversations that otherwise
> wouldn't happen.
>
> Please also help to carry this conversation into the wikis in coming
> weeks. Again, this won't be the only opportunity to influence, and
> I'll be thinking more about how the quarterly review process can also
> account for community feedback.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Erik
>


Hi Erik,

Can you describe how specific engineering projects are helping to address
the gender gap? Do you typically review user-facing projects with the
gender gap specifically in mind? I notice that while there is a FOSS
outreach program for women, there is nothing specific in the Wikimania
Hackathon materials to suggest that an effort was made to attract women to
this event. There is another hackathon planned for early next year - will
engineering make the gender gap part of the goals of that event?

I also notice that the editor engagement projects don't specifically list
the gender gap or women users. I think that testing new features (such as
communication tools, notifications, teahouse-style innovations and others
that bear specifically on interactions) with female user/focus groups would
greatly improve our understanding of how these tools impact the gender gap.
For example:  If part of the plan for the growth team is to invite
anonymous editors to sign up, why not tailor some of those invitations
specifically to female anonymous editors? Then you could add a measure,
retention of female editors, to that particular growth project. The results
should be instructive.

Likewise, it would be nice to see gender-gap related goals within
VisualEditor and the user experience groups goals, and to see some focus
from the Analytics and Research teams on measuring and understanding the
gap better. Needless to say its a little disappointing that the FOSS
outreach program (which currently has 8 participants) is the only mention
of women in the entire goals document, and the gender gap is never
mentioned.

Nathan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising banner and chapter members

[Laurentius]

Hi,

On mer, 2014-06-18 at 11:29 +0200, rupert THURNER wrote:
> Wmde had big success coupling the fundraising banner with a "how ti
> contribute" message (active, passive chapter members, community projects
> ...).

could you point us to more information about this?
(how was the banner, how it was shown, what was the result)

Laurentius


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Joint office Jakarta - Wikimedia Indonesia, HOT Open Street Map, and World Wide Web Foundation

[Nurunnaby Chowdhury]

Congratulation
​ Wikimedia Indonesia!

​--
Nurunnaby Chowdhury | @nhasive
Sysop, Bengali Wikipedia | User: Nhasive
Member, IEG, WMF
Sent from my iPhone device​


On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Cristian Consonni 
wrote:

> 2014-06-23 13:28 GMT+02:00 Tonmoy Khan :
> > Congratulations to WMID. Wish you do wonderful activities from your new
> > address :)
>
> Go WM-ID! Go!
>
> Congrats!
>
> Cristian
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Jeevan Jose]

I think following the opinion of Carl Lindberg is the best option [1]: "I
would personally be happy about not having to delete governmental works
which have expired in their own country... those always have felt different
to me than privately-held copyrights."

Hope Fae will support me when I start a mass de-admin request followed
by my self admin request. :)

Links:
1.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2014/04#New_URAA_policy_and_the_rule_of_the_shorter_term

Jee


On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Fæ  wrote:

> On 23 June 2014 13:42, Lodewijk  wrote:
> > The question is whether that is implicit, and whether that is necessary
> at
> > all. I find the argument that for government works we only have to bother
> > about the law of the source country, very persuasive.
>
> I can see no point in this discussion. Folks had every opportunity to
> give viewpoints during the RFC on Commons in April. No opinion in this
> list makes any tangible difference to the existing on-Commons RFC,
> on-Commons policies or published U.S. copyright law, even though it
> may be a good way of blowing off steam.
>
> GUIDE TO PLACES TO COMPLAIN ON COMMONS AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE:
>
> A. If anyone thinks that the April RFC was unclear as to the process
> that administrators should follow, they can create another.[1]
>
> B. If anyone feels that a particular admin is misusing their powers,
> then AN/U is a good place to complain, where it might make a
> difference or ensure that admin publicly justifies their
> actions.[2][3]
>
> C. A useful place to discuss copyright is the noticeboard on Commons
> for copyright, the advantage being that the same things do not get
> said several times over and where it is possible to correct something
> you write after you press 'send'.[4]
>
> D. Become an admin and do it yourself, or de-sysop an admin you feel
> has misused their powers, using simple standard processes.[2][5]
>
> Links
> 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_for_comment
> 2. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-June/072926.html
> 3.
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems
> 4. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright
> 5. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Joint office Jakarta - Wikimedia Indonesia, HOT Open Street Map, and World Wide Web Foundation

[Cristian Consonni]

2014-06-23 13:28 GMT+02:00 Tonmoy Khan :
> Congratulations to WMID. Wish you do wonderful activities from your new
> address :)

Go WM-ID! Go!

Congrats!

Cristian

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Fæ]

On 23 June 2014 13:42, Lodewijk  wrote:
> The question is whether that is implicit, and whether that is necessary at
> all. I find the argument that for government works we only have to bother
> about the law of the source country, very persuasive.

I can see no point in this discussion. Folks had every opportunity to
give viewpoints during the RFC on Commons in April. No opinion in this
list makes any tangible difference to the existing on-Commons RFC,
on-Commons policies or published U.S. copyright law, even though it
may be a good way of blowing off steam.

GUIDE TO PLACES TO COMPLAIN ON COMMONS AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE:

A. If anyone thinks that the April RFC was unclear as to the process
that administrators should follow, they can create another.[1]

B. If anyone feels that a particular admin is misusing their powers,
then AN/U is a good place to complain, where it might make a
difference or ensure that admin publicly justifies their
actions.[2][3]

C. A useful place to discuss copyright is the noticeboard on Commons
for copyright, the advantage being that the same things do not get
said several times over and where it is possible to correct something
you write after you press 'send'.[4]

D. Become an admin and do it yourself, or de-sysop an admin you feel
has misused their powers, using simple standard processes.[2][5]

Links
1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_for_comment
2. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-June/072926.html
3. 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems
4. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright
5. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Lodewijk]

The question is whether that is implicit, and whether that is necessary at
all. I find the argument that for government works we only have to bother
about the law of the source country, very persuasive.


2014-06-23 14:27 GMT+02:00 geni :

> On 23 June 2014 13:00, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
>
> > In my opinion as soon the letter is submitted through OTRS, the same
> letter
> > releases this content and defines that it's allowed to have it in
> Commons.
> >
> > URAA extends the copyright, it doesn't block the possibility to renounce
> to
> > the copyright.
> >
>
>
> Nothing in the letter renounces copyrights held outside Israel.
>
>
> --
> geni
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[geni]

On 23 June 2014 13:00, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> In my opinion as soon the letter is submitted through OTRS, the same letter
> releases this content and defines that it's allowed to have it in Commons.
>
> URAA extends the copyright, it doesn't block the possibility to renounce to
> the copyright.
>


Nothing in the letter renounces copyrights held outside Israel.


-- 
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Ilario Valdelli]

In my opinion as soon the letter is submitted through OTRS, the same letter
releases this content and defines that it's allowed to have it in Commons.

URAA extends the copyright, it doesn't block the possibility to renounce to
the copyright.

Regards


On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Craig Franklin 
wrote:

> Pardon me if this has already been covered, but as I understand it the
> problem is not the legal status of the files in Israel, the problem is with
> the legal status of the files in the United States, where the Israeli
> Government may still have some copyright protections.  So while the
> contents of the letter are nice, they don't address the problem.
>
> It seems to me that rather than insisting that the files are permitted to
> remain, a more fruitful avenue might be to use WMIL's contacts with the
> Israeli Government to licence these images anywhere where copyright might
> still exist under a very free licence like CC-0.  That way even if URAA or
> some future copyright shenanigans places these images back under copyright,
> they're usable by anyone.  This ought to satisfy even the most dogmatic
> Commons admin that the images are indeed free.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
>
> On 22 June 2014 17:30, Itzik Edri  wrote:
>
> > The story continues.
> >
> > WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the
> > Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest
> on
> > this photos. And not surprising, he was deleted from Commoms by the same
> > person who deleted all the photos so far:
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg
> >
> > Hard not to feel that the reason to this massive deletions and this kind
> of
> > behavior does not cross the boundaries of URAA enforcement to probably
> more
> > personal views...
> >
> > The original letter can be found on Hebrew Wikipedia:
> >
> >
> https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg
> >
> > Itzik
> >
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Yann Forget  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Some Commons contributors like to ask impossible requirements, and
> > > threaten to delete files if these are not met. We have now a case of
> > > famous pictures from the government of Israel and Israel Defense
> > > Forces.
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matanya#Files_and_pages_that_were_deleted_by_User:Fastily_that_I_am_aware_of_them
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Beba_Idelson_Ada_Maimon1952.jpg
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Abba_Hushi_1956.jpg
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Aharon_Meskin_-_Ben_Gurion_-_Israel_Prize1960.jpg
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Avraham_Shlonsky_1952.jpg
> > >
> > > These are famous and valuable pictures, including two featured
> > > pictures on the Hebrew Wikipedia. These files have already been
> > > deleted and restored 3 times. When the URAA issue was not convincing
> > > enough, a new reson for deletion was advanced: that publication
> > > details were not given. Anyone with 2 bits of common sense can
> > > understand that these famous pictures were published soon after they
> > > were taken. There is no reasonable doubt about that. In addition,
> > > publication is not a requirement for being in the public domain in
> > > Israel.
> > >
> > > After I restored these images, I was threatem by LGA, who is a
> > > delete-only account:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems#User:Yann
> > > There, more contributors argue on this issue.
> > >
> > > By asking absurb requirements about publication details, these
> > > contributors threaten the project as a whole. If insisting, it will
> > > lead people to upload pictures like these locally instead of Commons.
> > > Then the idea of a central repository for all Wikimedia projects is
> > > gone.
> > >
> > > Instead of looking for a reason to destroy these files, they should
> > > try to find a reason to keep them.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Yann
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > _

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
I disagree

They can but it makes more sense for them to change their own law first.
Thanks,
Gerard


On 23 June 2014 13:42, geni  wrote:

> On 23 June 2014 11:41, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > The Israeli government is clear in that they claim no copyright.
> >
>
>
> No they aren't.
>
>
>
> > How can you argue and from an US legal point of view and insist that
> > another government is to claim copyright in order to give a license.. It
> > will never be considered in a court of law because it is the Israeli
> > government who would be seeking justice in a US court of law.
> >
>
>
> Are you under impression that governments can't do exactly that?
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[geni]

On 23 June 2014 11:41, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:

> Hoi,
> The Israeli government is clear in that they claim no copyright.
>


No they aren't.



> How can you argue and from an US legal point of view and insist that
> another government is to claim copyright in order to give a license.. It
> will never be considered in a court of law because it is the Israeli
> government who would be seeking justice in a US court of law.
>


Are you under impression that governments can't do exactly that?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Joint office Jakarta - Wikimedia Indonesia, HOT Open Street Map, and World Wide Web Foundation

[Tonmoy Khan]

Congratulations to WMID. Wish you do wonderful activities from your new
address :)

Cheers

Ali Haidar Khan
FDC Member
Treasurer, Wikimedia Bangladesh
On Jun 23, 2014 5:01 PM, "Isabella Apriyana" <
isabella.apriy...@wikimedia.or.id> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> We would like to announce that Wikimedia Indonesia now officially has
> a joint office in Jakarta with Humanitarian Open Street Map (HOT-OSM) and
> World
> Wide Web Foundation (Open Data Lab Jakarta Project).
> It is a two level building in Menteng, Central Jakarta.
>
> Our mailing address, however, is still unchanged.
>
> Photo:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/wikimedia.indonesia/photos/a.406789046084.197840.126570256084/10152520597936085/?type=1&theater
>
> Regards,
>
>
> --
> *Isabella Apriyana*
> *Wakil Sekretaris Jendral*
>
> *(Deputy Secretary General)Wikimedia Indonesia*
> Seluler +628889752858/ +6281213700084
> Surel isabella.apriy...@wikimedia.or.id
>
> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan!
> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
>
> Support us to free the knowledge!
> http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
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> 
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[Wikimedia-l] Joint office Jakarta - Wikimedia Indonesia, HOT Open Street Map, and World Wide Web Foundation

[Isabella Apriyana]

Dear all,

We would like to announce that Wikimedia Indonesia now officially has
a joint office in Jakarta with Humanitarian Open Street Map (HOT-OSM) and
World
Wide Web Foundation (Open Data Lab Jakarta Project).
It is a two level building in Menteng, Central Jakarta.

Our mailing address, however, is still unchanged.

Photo:
https://www.facebook.com/wikimedia.indonesia/photos/a.406789046084.197840.126570256084/10152520597936085/?type=1&theater

Regards,


-- 
*Isabella Apriyana*
*Wakil Sekretaris Jendral*

*(Deputy Secretary General)Wikimedia Indonesia*
Seluler +628889752858/ +6281213700084
Surel isabella.apriy...@wikimedia.or.id

Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan!
http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi

Support us to free the knowledge!
http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
The Israeli government is clear in that they claim no copyright. A license
can only be given when you claim a copyright.

How can you argue and from an US legal point of view and insist that
another government is to claim copyright in order to give a license.. It
will never be considered in a court of law because it is the Israeli
government who would be seeking justice in a US court of law. It makes more
sense for them to change their own law.

Really this whole thing is silly to the extreme.
Thanks,
  Gerard


On 22 June 2014 11:56, Craig Franklin  wrote:

> Pardon me if this has already been covered, but as I understand it the
> problem is not the legal status of the files in Israel, the problem is with
> the legal status of the files in the United States, where the Israeli
> Government may still have some copyright protections.  So while the
> contents of the letter are nice, they don't address the problem.
>
> It seems to me that rather than insisting that the files are permitted to
> remain, a more fruitful avenue might be to use WMIL's contacts with the
> Israeli Government to licence these images anywhere where copyright might
> still exist under a very free licence like CC-0.  That way even if URAA or
> some future copyright shenanigans places these images back under copyright,
> they're usable by anyone.  This ought to satisfy even the most dogmatic
> Commons admin that the images are indeed free.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
>
> On 22 June 2014 17:30, Itzik Edri  wrote:
>
> > The story continues.
> >
> > WMIL uploaded a letter from the Ministry of Justice, addressed to the
> > Commons Community, which confirm that the government don't have interest
> on
> > this photos. And not surprising, he was deleted from Commoms by the same
> > person who deleted all the photos so far:
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg
> >
> > Hard not to feel that the reason to this massive deletions and this kind
> of
> > behavior does not cross the boundaries of URAA enforcement to probably
> more
> > personal views...
> >
> > The original letter can be found on Hebrew Wikipedia:
> >
> >
> https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:%D7%AA%D7%92%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%96%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg
> >
> > Itzik
> >
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ministry_of_Justice%27s_of_Israel_response_to_copyrights_issue.jpg
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Yann Forget  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Some Commons contributors like to ask impossible requirements, and
> > > threaten to delete files if these are not met. We have now a case of
> > > famous pictures from the government of Israel and Israel Defense
> > > Forces.
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matanya#Files_and_pages_that_were_deleted_by_User:Fastily_that_I_am_aware_of_them
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Beba_Idelson_Ada_Maimon1952.jpg
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Abba_Hushi_1956.jpg
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Aharon_Meskin_-_Ben_Gurion_-_Israel_Prize1960.jpg
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Avraham_Shlonsky_1952.jpg
> > >
> > > These are famous and valuable pictures, including two featured
> > > pictures on the Hebrew Wikipedia. These files have already been
> > > deleted and restored 3 times. When the URAA issue was not convincing
> > > enough, a new reson for deletion was advanced: that publication
> > > details were not given. Anyone with 2 bits of common sense can
> > > understand that these famous pictures were published soon after they
> > > were taken. There is no reasonable doubt about that. In addition,
> > > publication is not a requirement for being in the public domain in
> > > Israel.
> > >
> > > After I restored these images, I was threatem by LGA, who is a
> > > delete-only account:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems#User:Yann
> > > There, more contributors argue on this issue.
> > >
> > > By asking absurb requirements about publication details, these
> > > contributors threaten the project as a whole. If insisting, it will
> > > lead people to upload pictures like these locally instead of Commons.
> > > Then the idea of a central repository for all Wikimedia projects is
> > > gone.
> > >
> > > Instead of looking for a reason to destroy these files, they should
> > > try to find a reason to keep them.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Yann
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Urgent problem on the Beta Wikiversity

[R W]

Sure, I pick some random pages:

* some of the copyright issues already have been removed in the past
days by admins
* yesterday he started creating pages about people who, at least some
of them, do not want to be on the internet with full name (as privacy
matter I do not want to put their names here in public)
* he contacts commercial marketing agencies and ask them to edit
articles: 
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Verbeteren_Haarlem-pagina_op_wikivoyage
* This page literally says: "At the end of 20120 in the backyard of
the building on the corner of the streets Fonteinlaan and Meester
Lottelaan two bulldozers are. What are they planning to do?" -
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Verbouwing_Fonteinlaan_Meester_Lottelaan
* lyrics from a Dutch song taken from Youtube:
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet_ging_uit_fietsen
* an overview of films he thinks are good:
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Films:_overzicht
* he has send a message on some forum on the internet that voicemail
should be set up different (under the name of Wikiversity):
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Oproep_aan_KPN_om_haar_voicemail_anders_in_te_richten
* a page which only says he has contacted the ministry of education,
culture, and science on Facebook
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Beloningsplan_op_Facebook_pagina_OCW
* recipes of meals, like:
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Tikka_masala_met_zalm  (there is a
cookbook on the Dutch Wikibooks)
* he heard a well known football player shouting "shut up" in Dutch
and created a page (imitation of Wikiquote):
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Hou-je-bek-man
* title says "Plant on the corner of the streets Fonteinlaan,
Helenalaan" with only a picture
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Plant_hoek_Fonteinlaan,_Helenalaan
* a book description of a child's book it seems, strange text:
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Stel_je_eens_voor..._boekbespreking_bzzr
* he asks a businessman to add information about himself on
Wikiversity or Wikipedia: https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/%26Samhoud
* an attempt of a news article? "In 2014 there has been much attention
in the media on Muslim youth in Syria and Iraq are fighting for their
religion." https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Islam
* some kind of template in what is claimed that Wikiversity contacted
XXX: https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Template_bedrijven
* a page about a businessman who is according the author of the
article stealing money: https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Vestia
* a Wikipedia article: https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Branche
* businesses can become a sponsor of a page on Wikiversity it says
here: https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Kizumba_sponsor_programma
* "Wikiversity can do paid activities for you":
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Kizumba_sponsor_programma
* strange page but also asks to mail to an address:
https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wiskunde

This goes on and on and on, on many many pages...

On many pages he is aiming on getting businesses to add commercial
stuff on wiki's.

I have informed him multiple times, but replies with something like
that it are fine pages that match what (he thinks) Wikiversity is...


Romaine



On Mon Jun 23 08:04:55 UTC 2014 Richard Symonds wrote:
Could you link to an example?

:*-)
*On 23 Jun 2014 04:36, "R W" https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>> wrote:

>* On Beta Wikiversity someone is active now who uses the project as his
*>* personal notepad/sandbox. The pages created in Dutch are short Wikipedia
*>* articles, copy of a message of the yearplan of WMNL, texts of Wikisource,
*>* Wikinews articles, and for every person he contacted he creates a page. In
*>* his communication towards those people he presents himself as Wikiversity
*>* and says such in these pages. All these pages do not contain educational
*>* content.
*>>* Another major issue is that private information is added to these pages,
*>* privacy violation for no reason.
*>>* Another issue is the adding of copyrighted material
*>>* Because of there is no Dutch community there, nobody takes action. At the
*>* moment the Dutch chapter is working on setting up an education program, but
*>* the current material would discredit the attempt and we do not consider it
*>* realistic to start up this project at Beta Wikiversity.
*>>* How to act?
*>>* Romaine
*>* ___
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*>* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines

*>* Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org

*>* Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

*>* ?subject=unsubscribe>*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[geni]

On 23 June 2014 10:03, Itzik Edri  wrote:

> Hi Geni,
>
> I wonder when was the last time you, or any other person who responded till
> now requested his government to make a public statement - in any issue, not
> only related to this issue, and the government so quickly done that,
> exactly as he way them to do so - without a long process which involve 100
> legal advisers, ministries, committee discussions and many others steps
> involve.
>

Probably the last time anyone filed a freedom of information request. For a
direct example it would be the 7th of April with regards to a request about
bank of England notes. See  OTRS ticket # 2014041010009626


-- 
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Fæ]

On 23 June 2014 09:48, Steffen Prößdorf  wrote:
> I am absolutely agree with that (also as my personal opinion).
>
> The government allows the very free use of it, the WMF legal staff and the
> BOT don't think the URAA should be used to delete photos on Commons without
> office action, but the Commons admins do so. This is a big frustration for
> all who spend stuff to Commons and their work and time for our projects.

As one of the more experienced Commons contributors, I'm going to
spell out a hint. I attempted to highlight this in a more subtle way,
before this email discussion went off on various tangents, I guess I
was being too British.

FACTS

A. The April 2014 RFC[2] was closed with the firm statement "URAA
cannot be used as the sole reason for deletion. Deleted files can be
restored after a discussion in COM:UDR."

B. An RFC does not overrule policy, however the RFC does provide a
specific community consensus as to the preferred process that must be
followed to comply with policy.

C. Admins do not have free reign on Commons to delete whatever they
fancy, they can *easily and speedily* (compared to other Wikimedia
projects) be de-sysopped if they fail to follow policy or the
community (not just other admins) feel they are abusing their
powers.[1] Desysop requests can be raised by anyone, anyone can vote
in them and a *majority consensus* rules, so "about 50% is sufficient
to remove the admin". A preliminary discussion before creating the
de-sysop request should be created at AN/U - which gives the admin
fingered for disruption an opportunity to walk away or explain how
they intent to comply with policy or offer a more harmonious
approach.[3]

CONCLUSION

If substantial numbers of Commons community members feel that admins
are failing to implement the RFC as stated, possibly by ignoring
successful undeletion requests (a community consensus process) and
ignoring the specific process agreed in the April RFC, then a single
member of the same community (both admins and non-admins, and most
readers of this email) can start the de-sysop process for any
administrator on the grounds that they are abusing their powers.

Now, rather than moaning on this list, you can stick you head out of
the window and start shouting,[4] or you can go to Commons and
contribute to this great project.

Links
1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators/De-adminship
2. 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Massive_restoration_of_deleted_images_by_the_URAA#Close
3. 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard/User_problems
4. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Network_%28film%29

PS Nobody can de-sysop me, just you try to create a de-sysop request
and see what happens. :-)

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Itzik Edri]

Hi Geni,

I wonder when was the last time you, or any other person who responded till
now requested his government to make a public statement - in any issue, not
only related to this issue, and the government so quickly done that,
exactly as he way them to do so - without a long process which involve 100
legal advisers, ministries, committee discussions and many others steps
involve.

Itzik


On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 11:01 AM, geni  wrote:

> On 23 June 2014 07:31, rupert THURNER  wrote:
>
> > that sounds like a rather simple statement to make. is there a reason the
> > isreali govermmemt does not want to do that, or is this somenthing which
> > follows autimatically?
> >
> >
> As far as I'm aware they haven't been asked. Really all we need is an
> Israeli  citizen to actual ask them.
>
> --
> geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[Steffen Prößdorf]

2014-06-22 18:10 GMT+02:00 Itzik Edri :

> I'm saying that in *my personal opinion* as Wikimedians, and not I'm
> representing WMIL (which will continue FULLY to support the efforts on this
> issue) or any other official role i'm holding: but to be honest, as the
> situation looks right now in the commons - I don't think the government of
> Israel, or any other government need to behave according to the commons
> admins and their personal actions and opinions. From the government point
> of view - the photos are available online, they are free, they are no
> longer under copyright and they welcome everyone to uses it. Many people
> are already using the photos on websites, Flickrs accounts and others
> photos services - if the commons want to write his one rules
> and interpretations, even when the WMF BOT and the WMF legal staff don't
> fully support their steps - this is the commons and the movement problem to
> handle - not the government that have many others issues to handle, as this
> is not easy to reach and implement decision - and it rellevent to
> every government in the world. They are not working for us.
>

I am absolutely agree with that (also as my personal opinion).

The government allows the very free use of it, the WMF legal staff and the
BOT don't think the URAA should be used to delete photos on Commons without
office action, but the Commons admins do so. This is a big frustration for
all who spend stuff to Commons and their work and time for our projects.

Steffen
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Urgent problem on the Beta Wikiversity

[Richard Symonds]

Could you link to an example?

:-)
On 23 Jun 2014 04:36, "R W"  wrote:

> On Beta Wikiversity someone is active now who uses the project as his
> personal notepad/sandbox. The pages created in Dutch are short Wikipedia
> articles, copy of a message of the yearplan of WMNL, texts of Wikisource,
> Wikinews articles, and for every person he contacted he creates a page. In
> his communication towards those people he presents himself as Wikiversity
> and says such in these pages. All these pages do not contain educational
> content.
>
> Another major issue is that private information is added to these pages,
> privacy violation for no reason.
>
> Another issue is the adding of copyrighted material
>
> Because of there is no Dutch community there, nobody takes action. At the
> moment the Dutch chapter is working on setting up an education program, but
> the current material would discredit the attempt and we do not consider it
> realistic to start up this project at Beta Wikiversity.
>
> How to act?
>
> Romaine
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lets delete everything from commons (was The tragedy of Commons)

[geni]

On 23 June 2014 07:31, rupert THURNER  wrote:

> that sounds like a rather simple statement to make. is there a reason the
> isreali govermmemt does not want to do that, or is this somenthing which
> follows autimatically?
>
>
As far as I'm aware they haven't been asked. Really all we need is an
Israeli  citizen to actual ask them.

-- 
geni
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