[Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[Romaine Wiki]

Hi all,

Sad news.
The title of this thread seems a bit hard, but that is practically the
situation as it looks now.

*Background*
Wiki Loves Monuments is the yearly photo contest since 2010, organised by
many local Wikipedia communities and local chapters. For this contest a
banner is shown on top of Wikipedia pages in the specific countries to
attract attention from the public to participate in enriching Wikipedia
with photos of the local cultural heritage.

Wiki Loves Monuments depends for at least 99% on the banner. When there is
no banner, the uploads and results drop dramatically, as possible
participants are not informed and can't easily find the contest site. Also
participants need time to go on location to take photos and see the banner
above Wikipedia afterwards to find their way back.



*What is the situation?*
* The fundraising team plans to have a fundraising banner in Italy during
the month September.
* The local team of Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is organising the contest
in Italy and needs a banner as well.

As there can be shown only one banner at the time, there have been talks
about these conflicting banners. Result: Wiki Loves Monuments get only
37,5% of the time, the fundraising banner 62,5% of the time.

Now you maybe think that 37,5% of the time is still large, but the
appearances are deceptive because of the different ways the banner is used,
and because the differences in numbers of upload throughout the month
September. Also the banner is not shown at all during two full weeks,
important weeks to attract participants. In the end I estimate, based on
the usage and issues of previous years, etc, that only 10-15% of the
uploads are made in comparison what normally would have been expected.

This is what I would call a devastating effect.

And this is purely because of bad planning at WMF:
* They haven't checked which countries participated continuously the past
years.
* They haven't informed which countries are likely to participate.
* And they say they can't move the fundraising banner to another month, but
it is still a mystery why that isn't possible.

This same issue was originally the case in two countries, but somehow it
was possible to move it for the second country.

This is really sad for Italy. Extra sad because of the difficult copyright
situation in Italy, what requires the local team already to do much much
much more work than in most other countries, just to have a normal contest.
The Italian team does a great job this year.


*My conclusion*
The community is working very hard on improving and expanding the content
of Wikipedia by organising Wiki Loves Monuments. I always thought that this
was the number one priority of the whole Wikimedia movement. Did I made a
wrong assumption somehow?

But when it actually matters, the community project bears the bunt. This is
sad, very sad.


Please all, support the Italian team, they do a great job and deserve a
successful contest.

Greetings,

Romaine



PS: I am one of the international organisers of Wiki Loves Monuments this
year, but this e-mail is written on my personal account only.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[attolippip]

Sad news indeed.
Is there a public discussion about this issue anywhere?
Can we get the WMF comments about it publicly?

Best regards,
antanana
ED of Wikimedia Ukraine

2015-08-18 21:42 GMT+03:00 Romaine Wiki :

> Hi all,
>
> Sad news.
> The title of this thread seems a bit hard, but that is practically the
> situation as it looks now.
>
> *Background*
> Wiki Loves Monuments is the yearly photo contest since 2010, organised by
> many local Wikipedia communities and local chapters. For this contest a
> banner is shown on top of Wikipedia pages in the specific countries to
> attract attention from the public to participate in enriching Wikipedia
> with photos of the local cultural heritage.
>
> Wiki Loves Monuments depends for at least 99% on the banner. When there is
> no banner, the uploads and results drop dramatically, as possible
> participants are not informed and can't easily find the contest site. Also
> participants need time to go on location to take photos and see the banner
> above Wikipedia afterwards to find their way back.
>
>
>
> *What is the situation?*
> * The fundraising team plans to have a fundraising banner in Italy during
> the month September.
> * The local team of Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is organising the
> contest in Italy and needs a banner as well.
>
> As there can be shown only one banner at the time, there have been talks
> about these conflicting banners. Result: Wiki Loves Monuments get only
> 37,5% of the time, the fundraising banner 62,5% of the time.
>
> Now you maybe think that 37,5% of the time is still large, but the
> appearances are deceptive because of the different ways the banner is used,
> and because the differences in numbers of upload throughout the month
> September. Also the banner is not shown at all during two full weeks,
> important weeks to attract participants. In the end I estimate, based on
> the usage and issues of previous years, etc, that only 10-15% of the
> uploads are made in comparison what normally would have been expected.
>
> This is what I would call a devastating effect.
>
> And this is purely because of bad planning at WMF:
> * They haven't checked which countries participated continuously the past
> years.
> * They haven't informed which countries are likely to participate.
> * And they say they can't move the fundraising banner to another month,
> but it is still a mystery why that isn't possible.
>
> This same issue was originally the case in two countries, but somehow it
> was possible to move it for the second country.
>
> This is really sad for Italy. Extra sad because of the difficult copyright
> situation in Italy, what requires the local team already to do much much
> much more work than in most other countries, just to have a normal contest.
> The Italian team does a great job this year.
>
>
> *My conclusion*
> The community is working very hard on improving and expanding the content
> of Wikipedia by organising Wiki Loves Monuments. I always thought that this
> was the number one priority of the whole Wikimedia movement. Did I made a
> wrong assumption somehow?
>
> But when it actually matters, the community project bears the bunt. This
> is sad, very sad.
>
>
> Please all, support the Italian team, they do a great job and deserve a
> successful contest.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Romaine
>
>
>
> PS: I am one of the international organisers of Wiki Loves Monuments this
> year, but this e-mail is written on my personal account only.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> wikilovesmonume...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[Pine W]

Hi Lisa,

This is kind of confusing. Can you explain why Fundraising can't alter its
fundraising schedule for Italy in order to accomodate the WLM annual
community activity?

Thanks,
Pine
On Aug 18, 2015 11:42 AM, "Romaine Wiki"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Sad news.
> The title of this thread seems a bit hard, but that is practically the
> situation as it looks now.
>
> *Background*
> Wiki Loves Monuments is the yearly photo contest since 2010, organised by
> many local Wikipedia communities and local chapters. For this contest a
> banner is shown on top of Wikipedia pages in the specific countries to
> attract attention from the public to participate in enriching Wikipedia
> with photos of the local cultural heritage.
>
> Wiki Loves Monuments depends for at least 99% on the banner. When there is
> no banner, the uploads and results drop dramatically, as possible
> participants are not informed and can't easily find the contest site. Also
> participants need time to go on location to take photos and see the banner
> above Wikipedia afterwards to find their way back.
>
>
>
> *What is the situation?*
> * The fundraising team plans to have a fundraising banner in Italy during
> the month September.
> * The local team of Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is organising the contest
> in Italy and needs a banner as well.
>
> As there can be shown only one banner at the time, there have been talks
> about these conflicting banners. Result: Wiki Loves Monuments get only
> 37,5% of the time, the fundraising banner 62,5% of the time.
>
> Now you maybe think that 37,5% of the time is still large, but the
> appearances are deceptive because of the different ways the banner is used,
> and because the differences in numbers of upload throughout the month
> September. Also the banner is not shown at all during two full weeks,
> important weeks to attract participants. In the end I estimate, based on
> the usage and issues of previous years, etc, that only 10-15% of the
> uploads are made in comparison what normally would have been expected.
>
> This is what I would call a devastating effect.
>
> And this is purely because of bad planning at WMF:
> * They haven't checked which countries participated continuously the past
> years.
> * They haven't informed which countries are likely to participate.
> * And they say they can't move the fundraising banner to another month, but
> it is still a mystery why that isn't possible.
>
> This same issue was originally the case in two countries, but somehow it
> was possible to move it for the second country.
>
> This is really sad for Italy. Extra sad because of the difficult copyright
> situation in Italy, what requires the local team already to do much much
> much more work than in most other countries, just to have a normal contest.
> The Italian team does a great job this year.
>
>
> *My conclusion*
> The community is working very hard on improving and expanding the content
> of Wikipedia by organising Wiki Loves Monuments. I always thought that this
> was the number one priority of the whole Wikimedia movement. Did I made a
> wrong assumption somehow?
>
> But when it actually matters, the community project bears the bunt. This is
> sad, very sad.
>
>
> Please all, support the Italian team, they do a great job and deserve a
> successful contest.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Romaine
>
>
>
> PS: I am one of the international organisers of Wiki Loves Monuments this
> year, but this e-mail is written on my personal account only.
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[Romaine Wiki]

Hi Antanana,

And I forgot to mention, this same issue existed in 2014 as well, with also
there the downside effects.

This subject is of banners has been discussed internally with the local
Wiki Loves Monuments team, after I tried to gave some insights in the
matter. I think this is done so because me and others have always thought
and assumed that it is possible to find a solution with understanding of
both sides. With these outcomes I think I can safely say that that
assumption and thought can't be considered realistic.

I think it would be better in future to have the community decide somehow
how they perceive this matter. After all, they create the content of
Wikipedia and bear the bunt as result of it.

Romaine


2015-08-18 20:50 GMT+02:00 attolippip :

> Sad news indeed.
> Is there a public discussion about this issue anywhere?
> Can we get the WMF comments about it publicly?
>
> Best regards,
> antanana
> ED of Wikimedia Ukraine
>
> 2015-08-18 21:42 GMT+03:00 Romaine Wiki :
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Sad news.
>> The title of this thread seems a bit hard, but that is practically the
>> situation as it looks now.
>>
>> *Background*
>> Wiki Loves Monuments is the yearly photo contest since 2010, organised by
>> many local Wikipedia communities and local chapters. For this contest a
>> banner is shown on top of Wikipedia pages in the specific countries to
>> attract attention from the public to participate in enriching Wikipedia
>> with photos of the local cultural heritage.
>>
>> Wiki Loves Monuments depends for at least 99% on the banner. When there
>> is no banner, the uploads and results drop dramatically, as possible
>> participants are not informed and can't easily find the contest site. Also
>> participants need time to go on location to take photos and see the banner
>> above Wikipedia afterwards to find their way back.
>>
>>
>>
>> *What is the situation?*
>> * The fundraising team plans to have a fundraising banner in Italy during
>> the month September.
>> * The local team of Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is organising the
>> contest in Italy and needs a banner as well.
>>
>> As there can be shown only one banner at the time, there have been talks
>> about these conflicting banners. Result: Wiki Loves Monuments get only
>> 37,5% of the time, the fundraising banner 62,5% of the time.
>>
>> Now you maybe think that 37,5% of the time is still large, but the
>> appearances are deceptive because of the different ways the banner is used,
>> and because the differences in numbers of upload throughout the month
>> September. Also the banner is not shown at all during two full weeks,
>> important weeks to attract participants. In the end I estimate, based on
>> the usage and issues of previous years, etc, that only 10-15% of the
>> uploads are made in comparison what normally would have been expected.
>>
>> This is what I would call a devastating effect.
>>
>> And this is purely because of bad planning at WMF:
>> * They haven't checked which countries participated continuously the past
>> years.
>> * They haven't informed which countries are likely to participate.
>> * And they say they can't move the fundraising banner to another month,
>> but it is still a mystery why that isn't possible.
>>
>> This same issue was originally the case in two countries, but somehow it
>> was possible to move it for the second country.
>>
>> This is really sad for Italy. Extra sad because of the difficult
>> copyright situation in Italy, what requires the local team already to do
>> much much much more work than in most other countries, just to have a
>> normal contest. The Italian team does a great job this year.
>>
>>
>> *My conclusion*
>> The community is working very hard on improving and expanding the content
>> of Wikipedia by organising Wiki Loves Monuments. I always thought that this
>> was the number one priority of the whole Wikimedia movement. Did I made a
>> wrong assumption somehow?
>>
>> But when it actually matters, the community project bears the bunt. This
>> is sad, very sad.
>>
>>
>> Please all, support the Italian team, they do a great job and deserve a
>> successful contest.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Romaine
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: I am one of the international organisers of Wiki Loves Monuments this
>> year, but this e-mail is written on my personal account only.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
>> wikilovesmonume...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>>
>
>
> ___
> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
> wikilovesmonume...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments
> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[Maarten Dammers]

Hi Romaine,

Sad to hear this. I remember running in the same situation a couple of 
years ago (2013) when a really prominent "new privacy policy" banner was 
put up for everyone with a high percentage for most of the month [1]. 
Back than I contacted the people at the WMF responsible for that. I got 
some very polite replies that can be summed up as "our project is more 
important than yours". The WMF owns the sites so if they feel like they 
want to put up banners that conflict with WLM, they can just do that and 
there is nothing we can do about that (besides complaining on mailing 
lists).


Maarten

[1] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=CentralNotice/Calendar&oldid=5844467


Romaine Wiki schreef op 18-8-2015 om 20:42:

Hi all,

Sad news.
The title of this thread seems a bit hard, but that is practically the 
situation as it looks now.


*Background*
Wiki Loves Monuments is the yearly photo contest since 2010, organised 
by many local Wikipedia communities and local chapters. For this 
contest a banner is shown on top of Wikipedia pages in the specific 
countries to attract attention from the public to participate in 
enriching Wikipedia with photos of the local cultural heritage.


Wiki Loves Monuments depends for at least 99% on the banner. When 
there is no banner, the uploads and results drop dramatically, as 
possible participants are not informed and can't easily find the 
contest site. Also participants need time to go on location to take 
photos and see the banner above Wikipedia afterwards to find their way 
back.



*What is the situation?
*
* The fundraising team plans to have a fundraising banner in Italy 
during the month September.
* The local team of Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is organising the 
contest in Italy and needs a banner as well.


As there can be shown only one banner at the time, there have been 
talks about these conflicting banners. Result: Wiki Loves Monuments 
get only 37,5% of the time, the fundraising banner 62,5% of the time.


Now you maybe think that 37,5% of the time is still large, but the 
appearances are deceptive because of the different ways the banner is 
used, and because the differences in numbers of upload throughout the 
month September. Also the banner is not shown at all during two full 
weeks, important weeks to attract participants. In the end I estimate, 
based on the usage and issues of previous years, etc, that only 10-15% 
of the uploads are made in comparison what normally would have been 
expected.


This is what I would call a devastating effect.

And this is purely because of bad planning at WMF:
* They haven't checked which countries participated continuously the 
past years.

* They haven't informed which countries are likely to participate.
* And they say they can't move the fundraising banner to another 
month, but it is still a mystery why that isn't possible.


This same issue was originally the case in two countries, but somehow 
it was possible to move it for the second country.


This is really sad for Italy. Extra sad because of the difficult 
copyright situation in Italy, what requires the local team already to 
do much much much more work than in most other countries, just to have 
a normal contest. The Italian team does a great job this year.



*My conclusion*
The community is working very hard on improving and expanding the 
content of Wikipedia by organising Wiki Loves Monuments. I always 
thought that this was the number one priority of the whole Wikimedia 
movement. Did I made a wrong assumption somehow?


But when it actually matters, the community project bears the bunt. 
This is sad, very sad.



Please all, support the Italian team, they do a great job and deserve 
a successful contest.


Greetings,

Romaine



PS: I am one of the international organisers of Wiki Loves Monuments 
this year, but this e-mail is written on my personal account only.








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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[Nathan]

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Romaine Wiki 
wrote:

> Hi Antanana,
>
> And I forgot to mention, this same issue existed in 2014 as well, with also
> there the downside effects.
>
> This subject is of banners has been discussed internally with the local
> Wiki Loves Monuments team, after I tried to gave some insights in the
> matter. I think this is done so because me and others have always thought
> and assumed that it is possible to find a solution with understanding of
> both sides. With these outcomes I think I can safely say that that
> assumption and thought can't be considered realistic.
>
> I think it would be better in future to have the community decide somehow
> how they perceive this matter. After all, they create the content of
> Wikipedia and bear the bunt as result of it.
>
> Romaine
>
>
It seems like there are other communication channels you could take
advantage of - other types of banners, bot-distributed talk page messages,
WMF-assisted mass e-mail campaigns, social networking messages (FB,
Twitter, etc.) and so on. Is it really true that having to share banners
with fundraising will result in an unavoidable loss of 90% of contributors?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[Liam Wyatt]

On Tuesday, 18 August 2015, attolippip  wrote:

>
> Can we get the WMF comments about it publicly?
>
>  The WMF Fundraising department asked me to submit my own comments and
feedback from previous years that can be taken into account for the 2015-16
fundraiser at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2015-16_Fundraising_ideas

Some of the feedback is "perennial" - we have the same debates every year.
But, if that is the page where the Fundraising team have requested comments
about the forthcoming fundraiser be placed, then I suggest that people use
it.

-Liam


-- 
wittylama.com
Peace, love & metadata
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fw: important

[Platonides]

Kenneth Cook wrote:

I consider this to be spam, do you?

Ken


Yes, of course. It is a misleading text "Important message, visit xyz" 
with a link to a compromised website that redirects to a page 
impersonating a newspaper in order to get you use a trading program. (at 
your own risk, and according to the TOU you can only use it if you have 
enough financial knowledge and experience).


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[Platonides]

Really sad indeed. Specially for a country with such a complicated 
situation as Italy.


Given that they are going to take you banner time, maybe they would be 
possible to be convinced to include a small "WLM ad" in the donation page?
I would expect targetting people that visit the page but doesn't donate, 
or listing "other ways to help" after donation (a more standard one 
about editing could be used, too). It won't have the same impact as a 
banner, but it'd be an interesting approach.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising

[Ilario Valdelli]

Yes it can be possible without touching the fundraising's banner.

The banner can be put in the Mediawiki:sitenotice in each project and 
can cohabitate with the fundraising's banner.


The real problem is that a small banner can have only a limited effect.

On 18.08.2015 23:31, Platonides wrote:


Given that they are going to take you banner time, maybe they would be 
possible to be convinced to include a small "WLM ad" in the donation 
page?


--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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[Wikimedia-l] Reimagining Wikimedia Foundation Grants

[Siko Bouterse]

Hi all,

The Wikimedia Foundation would like your feedback about how we can
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https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining_WMF_grants

We’ve been discussing the idea with the grants committees and are now
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Please share your feedback on the idea here, and help make it better:
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You can learn more about this consultation, including dates for office
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Feedback is welcome in any language.

Warm regards,
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-- 
Siko Bouterse
Director of Community Resources
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

sboute...@wikimedia.org

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*Donate  or click the "edit" button today,
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[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Reimagining Wikimedia Foundation Grants

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The Wikimedia Foundation would like your feedback about how we can
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https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Reimagining_WMF_grants

We’ve been discussing the idea with the grants committees and are now
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Please share your feedback on the idea here, and help make it better:
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You can learn more about this consultation, including dates for office
hours, here:
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Feedback is welcome in any language.

Warm regards,
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-- 
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Director of Community Resources
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

sboute...@wikimedia.org

*Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
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*Donate  or click the "edit" button today,
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