Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mobile image upload
It does, however, get its share of exactly what one would expect: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lil_brownie_2013-08-19_19-33.jpg KWW Op 2013/08/25 17:08, Sue Gardner schreef: Wow, that *is* great. Thank you for showing us, James :-) On Aug 25, 2013 5:14 AM, James Heilman jmh...@gmail.com wrote: Mobile image upload is a huge plus thus thanks to all who made it happen. It is allowing those who might not otherwise have be able to get involved to do so. Just saw this image come in through the mobile site http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dirty_white_pseudomembrane_classically_seen_in_diptheria_2013-07-06_11-07.jpg I have never seen diphtheria as it is exceedingly rare in my area of the world. And technically this image is very hard to take. Look forwards to mobile editing arriving. -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they make reasonable points about choosing opt-out over opt-in. This is the point on which we fundamentally disagree. Their argument for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of testing that it affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we have concerns about Wikipedia's sustainability, there's no question that it has survived for years and will survive for years more. The stability of the site is much more important than testing this code, and the testing strategy of presenting it as if it was functioning software and seeing what people did with it wasn't a reasonable decision: it was completely and absolutely irresponsible. KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
Op 2013/08/06 7:55, Martijn Hoekstra schreef: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com wrote: Their argument for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of testing that it affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we have concerns about Wikipedia's sustainability, there's no question that it has survived for years and will survive for years more. The stability of the site is much more important than testing this code, and the testing strategy of presenting it as if it was functioning software and seeing what people did with it wasn't a reasonable decision: it was completely and absolutely irresponsible. Opt-out with a beta or experimental notice (as it is now when enabled on en.wiki) doesn't seem to have the problem of presenting it if it were mature software you present as the pivotal problem in this post. Their deployment strategy (not labeling the software as beta on the user interface, changing the function of the existing buttons, no warning when the software was entered, deploying it to new editors that had no chance of having seen notices about it) hinged on getting the unwary and uninformed to press the edit button without realizing what they were getting into. Saying that it is reasonable *now* doesn't excuse the five weeks that preceded it. KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
Op 2013/08/06 9:07, Peter Southwood schreef: Do you have data to back up your claims? Peter What do you need? Evidence that Wikipedia has survived for years? Evidence that its decline is not so rapid as to indicate an emergency situation? Quotes from Erik where he states that he disrupted English Wikipedia in order to create a test bed? The first two are judgement calls, for the third there's an embarrassment of riches. Let me know what you need. KWW - Original Message - From: Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they make reasonable points about choosing opt-out over opt-in. This is the point on which we fundamentally disagree. Their argument for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of testing that it affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we have concerns about Wikipedia's sustainability, there's no question that it has survived for years and will survive for years more. The stability of the site is much more important than testing this code, and the testing strategy of presenting it as if it was functioning software and seeing what people did with it wasn't a reasonable decision: it was completely and absolutely irresponsible. KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising
Op 2013/08/06 9:40, Ziyuan Yao schreef: The key point in my original idea is that you make buyers believe that they're not just giving money away, but also getting some solid value in return. A Wikipedia DVD is a kind of solid value. More like a complete set of Wikipedia Blu-Rays. I forget the actual byte count of Wikipedia these days, but it's well over anything you would want to try to store on DVDs. KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
I've made no claim about most long-term editors, but any perusal of the two RFCs and the Feedback page would demonstrate that there's a fairly large group. Or are you arguing that deploying bug-ridden software that corrupts articles, hangs browsers, crashes unexpectedly, and doesn't have sufficient features to edit basic articles is somehow OK as long the site survives the disruption? Even if it can be shown that development knew that was the case prior to deployment, and chose to deploy it anyway? KWW Op 2013/08/06 10:54, Peter Southwood schreef: Evidence that most long term editors are frothing at the mouth would be a good start, evidence that the rollout of VE has had a significant impact on long term editor retention, either way, even evidence that WP is in rapid decline that is in any way related to VE, positively or negatively, Cheers, Peter - Original Message - From: Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out Op 2013/08/06 9:07, Peter Southwood schreef: Do you have data to back up your claims? Peter What do you need? Evidence that Wikipedia has survived for years? Evidence that its decline is not so rapid as to indicate an emergency situation? Quotes from Erik where he states that he disrupted English Wikipedia in order to create a test bed? The first two are judgement calls, for the third there's an embarrassment of riches. Let me know what you need. KWW - Original Message - From: Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they make reasonable points about choosing opt-out over opt-in. This is the point on which we fundamentally disagree. Their argument for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of testing that it affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we have concerns about Wikipedia's sustainability, there's no question that it has survived for years and will survive for years more. The stability of the site is much more important than testing this code, and the testing strategy of presenting it as if it was functioning software and seeing what people did with it wasn't a reasonable decision: it was completely and absolutely irresponsible. KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
Op 2013/08/06 13:05, Peter Southwood schreef: This is Wikipedia, there are always a small number who make a lot of noise. I think that's part of the problem: any change hits a nerve *somewhere*, so even when it's a real problem, observers are likely to dismiss it as being just more of the same. KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
Op 2013/08/05 19:35, MZMcBride schreef: Finally, and somewhat related to the complaints page, I've been thinking lately about the British and the Irish and the nature of insurgencies. I believe the VisualEditor team is now viewed by many on the English Wikipedia (and other wikis) as an occupying force. Consequently, this has created an insurgency composed of long-time editors. This isn't meant to be hyperbolic: nobody is rioting in the streets or planning warfare (yet). However, the anger felt by many in the editing community toward the VisualEditor team is very real and very worrying, as is the seemingly heavy-handed way in which VisualEditor has been deployed. Just a few weeks ago, VisualEditor was receiving accolades for the way in which it had been slowly and thoughtfully developed and deployed. However, seemingly arbitrary deadlines and a few key bad decisions have greatly hurt it. The wounds are deep, but it remains to be seen whether they will be fatal. I notice you used the phrase seemingly heavy-handed above. Do you truly believe that this was not *actually* heavy-handed? KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] a compromise proposal for visual editor dogfooding
Op 2013/08/03 6:58, Andrew Gray schreef: I think there's a problem with any kind of A/B testing on the main site interface for more than small changes - it's that we only have one set of documentation. Wikipedia's help pages (certainly on enwiki) aren't amazing, but they are used, and people will fall back to them if they have problems using the site. That's one of the biggest chicken-and-egg problems in this whole deployment: those help pages are exclusively maintained by editors. Until there's a substantial body of volunteers that believe that updating the help pages to match VE is a worthwhile endeavour, the pages will remain at the current version, which means that all new editors can only get help if they don't use VE. That makes it hard to ever find a group of people that thinks updating the documentation is worth the effort. KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's have the courage to sit down and talk about VisualEditor
Op 2013/07/31 21:58, Erik Moeller schreef: There's a reason every start-up on the planet follows the idea of the Minimum Viable Product like a religion. If you had followed that, and understood that the Minimum Viable Product included cut-and-paste, table editing, and maybe the ability to successfully and completely edit the hundred or so most edited articles out of all the millions, you wouldn't have hit the level of pushback you've encountered. You released a sub-viable product, which is what caused the storm you encountered. I personally will never judge a team too harshly for releasing too early, because the normal bias is the opposite, and it's counterproductive. I'll be content with just blaming you, then. You value your team's productivity over everyone else's. I don't know why you expected everyone that has worked on Wikipedia for years to cheerfully clean up after you when you make it abundantly clear that you hold everything we have worked on in disdain. KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
