Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for feedback about Wikimedia Foundation Bylaws changes and Board candidate rubric

[Yuri Astrakhan]

I second that. It always amazed me that the community that has built the
entire site does not have the majority in deciding the future of the site,
and this seems to make it even less so.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 2:03 PM Brion Vibber  wrote:

> From what I've read in the thread above I agree with Yair, and would add
> that this feels like a big power grab against the community.
>
> I believe that Wikimedia Foundation must reject these proposed bylaws
> changes to preserve our open, democratic nature, and hold elections to fill
> all seats.
>
> -- brion
> former CTO
> current software architect
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 5:12 PM Asaf Bartov  wrote:
>
>> Hello.  With my list-moderator hat, I am relaying two messages from Jimmy
>> Wales, sent from an address he apparently hadn't used before,  that were
>> unintentionally caught by the mailing list filters and could not be let
>> through.  I paste them below.
>>
>>Asaf
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Jimmy Wales 
>> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2020 05:12:55 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for feedback about Wikimedia Foundation
>> Bylaws changes and Board candidate rubric
>> On 10/7/20 6:32 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:
>>
>> The replacement of an explicit voting process with an unspecified process
>> +
>> schedule seems unnecessarily vague.
>>
>> I agree that the vagueness is not good.  To make sure everyone is aware:
>> there has been no discussion and I'm unaware of anyone
>> on the board who would be in favor of *removing* elections.  I think the
>> current wording here is awkward and may have been designed
>> to not be super prescriptive about how exactly we might move to a process
>> with a community-driven and community-approved "rubric"
>> combined with elections.  To remedy this defect seems quite easy - a
>> future
>> revision should explicitly include as much detail as is possible,
>> and certainly should mandate elections.
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Jimmy Wales 
>> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2020 05:13:08 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for feedback about Wikimedia Foundation
>> Bylaws changes and Board candidate rubric
>> On 10/7/20 10:03 PM, Yair Rand wrote:
>>
>> (Another minor point: The change from the description of the appointed
>> seats from "non-community-selected, non-chapter-selected" to
>> "non-community-sourced" seems to imply that the Board is prohibited from
>> filling these seats with any community members. Previously, there have
>> been
>> community members in these seats.)
>>
>> I think this is a very good "catch".  I'm sure that wasn't the intention
>> of
>> the rewording.  I didn't
>> write it and of course I can't speak for anyone else.  I can say that
>> there
>> has been no discussion
>> at the board level of anyone suggesting that we should not be able to
>> select community members
>> for these seats.
>>
>> Indeed, my personal view is that as we pursue board expansion, it is
>> crucial that we try as hard as
>> we can find to fill the appointed seats with as many deeply experienced
>> community members (who
>> have other relevant skills) as we possibly can.
>>
>> In terms of this proposal, I think that a minor change to clarify this
>> minor point is a great idea!
>>
>> I think the ambiguity probably arose with the change from "selected" to
>> "sourced" - a change that, itself,
>> deserves great scrutiny.
>>
>> ===
>>
>> (end of Jimmy's two messages.  Future posts from Jimmy's new address
>> should
>> go through.)
>>
>>Asaf
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Community Tech: New Format for 2020 Wishlist Survey

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Gerard, you assume that "my wikipedia" is the only project I participate
in?  Let me assure you this is not the case.  On the contrary, the last few
years I mostly contributed to Wikidata and recently - a massive Wiktionary
lexeme import, and very little to Wikipedia.

That said, I think removing the last actionable and visible community check
on WMF is a mistake for the reasons I outlined before.  We the community
(people who contribute to the open knowledge, who actually created the
knowledge that now generates all those donations) should have at least some
measurable input into how WMF spends those resources and priorities its
projects. WMF can say "we believe that free knowledge means we must spend
99% of the donations towards global warming, because one cannot have free
knowledge without the planet on which to live" (a bit of a straw man
argument, but it illustrates my point) -- and there is no community input
short of a Global protect or a Spanish-wiki-style revolt where the whole
community decides to move to a different platform for the feedback to get
across.

My point is -- in a democracy, if a large crowd is on the streets, the
government has already messed up. And the way to avoid it is to have a well
functioning feedback mechanism that can early-on tell WMF what the
"constituents" would like it to do.  We currently do NOT have any way for
donators to say what they want the money to be spend on. We currently do
NOT have any way for community to do the same.  Thus, its a self-driving
ship -- the inmates are running the asylum.


On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 12:50 AM Gerard Meijssen 
wrote:

> The disappointing you show and the grotesque conclusions are imho based in
> a sense of entitlement. You had it your way for so long and they are now
> robbing you from your cookies... It is easy to "forget" that a program
> where a majority decides what is on a "community wish list" favours the
> biggest projects. It is easy to forget that the WMF has many projects and
> your Wikipedia is only one out of over 250 and, there are the "other"
> projects as well.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Community Tech: New Format for 2020 Wishlist Survey

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Ilana, restricting wishlist to non-Wikipedia this year is a very sad news.

For many years, wishlist survey was the best way for the community to talk
back to the foundation, and to try to influence its direction. WMF mostly
ignored these wishes, yet it was still a place to express, discuss,
aggregate and vote on what community needed. Big thank-you is due to the
tiny community tech team that tackled the top 10 items, but that's just ~3%
of the foundation's employees.

WMF has been steadily separating itself from the community and loosing
credibility as a guiding force.  Take a look at the last election -- almost
every candidate has said "no" to the question if WMF is capable of
deciding/delivering on the direction [1].  In **every** single conversation
I had with the community members, people expressed doubts with the movement
strategy project, in some cases even treating it as a joke.

This is a huge problem, and restricting wishlist kills the last effective
feedback mechanism community had.  Now WMF is fully in control of itself,
with nearly no checks & balances from the people who created it.

I still believe that if WMF makes it a priority to align most of its
quarterly/yearly goals with the community wishlist (not just top 10
positions), we could return to the effective community-governance.
Otherwise WMF is risking to mirror Red Cross Haiti story [2] -- hundreds of
millions of $$ donated, and very few buildings actually built.

With great respect to all the people who made Wikis what they are today,
--[[User:Yurik]]

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate-selected_Board_seats/2019/Questions#Do_you_believe_the_Wikimedia_Foundation_in_its_present_form_is_the_right_vehicle_for_the_delivery_of_the_strategic_direction?_If_so_why,_and_if_not,_what_might_replace_it?

[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Red_Cross#Disaster_preparedness_and_response

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 5:18 PM Ilana Fried  wrote:

> Hello, everyone!
>
> My name is Ilana, and I'm the product manager for the Community Tech team.
> We’re excited to share an update on the Community Tech 2020 Wishlist Survey
> . This
> will
> be our fifth annual Community Wishlist Survey, and for this year, we’ve
> decided to take a different approach. In the past, we've invited people to
> write proposals for any features or fixes that they'd like to see, and the
> Community Tech team has addressed the top ten wishes with the most support
> votes. This year, we're just going to focus on the *non-Wikipedia content
> projects* (i.e. Wikibooks, Wiktionary, Wikiquote, Commons, Wikisource,
> Wikiversity, Wikispecies, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, and Wikinews), and we're
> only going to address the top five wishes from this survey. This is a big
> departure from the typical process. In the following year (2021), we’ll
> probably return to the traditional structure.
>
> So, why this change? We’ve been following the same format for years — and,
> generally, it has lots of benefits. We build great tools, provide useful
> improvements, and have an impact on diverse communities. However, the
> nature of the format tends to prioritize the largest project (Wikipedia).
> This makes it harder to serve smaller projects, and many of their wishes
> never make it onto the wishlist. As a community-focused team, we want to
> support *all* projects. Thus, for 2020, we want to shine a light on
> non-Wikipedia projects.
>
> Furthermore, we’ll be accepting five wishes. Over the years, we’ve taken on
> larger wishes (like Global Preferences
>  or Who
> Wrote That
> ),
> which are awesome projects. At the same time, they tend to be lengthy
> endeavors, requiring extra time for research and development. When we
> looked at the 2019 wishlist, there were still many unresolved wishes.
> Meanwhile, we wanted to make room for the new 2020 wishes. For this reason,
> we’ve decided to take on a shortened list, so we can address as many wishes
> (new and remaining 2019 wishes
> )
> as possible.
>
> Overall, we look forward to this year’s survey. We worked with lots of
> folks (engineering, product management, and others) to think about how we
> could support underserved projects, all while preserving the dynamic and
> open nature of the wishlist. *Please let us know your thoughts
> *
> related
> to this change. In addition, we’ll begin thinking about the guidelines for
> this new process, so *we want your feedback
> * (on
> what sorts of processes/rules we may want to consider). Thank you, and
> we’re very curious to see the wishes in November!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ilana Fried
>
> Product 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

[Yuri Astrakhan]

What about Wikimedia NYC?  (I'm not sure of its organizational status)

On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta 
wrote:

> Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't believe
> it compares with a city UG.
>
> Paulo
>
> Andy Mabbett  escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019
> à(s) 22:53:
>
> > On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta
> >  wrote:
> >
> > > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's
> > basically
> > > a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
> > >
> > > It's a curious precedent.
> >
> > The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia Community
> > User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal forced HTTPS backdoor in Kazakhstan

[Yuri Astrakhan]

I don't think browser vendors will block the ability to install a custom
root certificate because some corp clients may use it for exactly the same
reason -- creating an HTTPS proxy with fake certs in order to analyze
internal traffic (in the name of monitoring/security).

Browser vendors could make it more difficult to install, so that it would
require the corp IT department to do some magic, or even release two
versions of the browser - corp and general (with blocked uncertified root
certs), but at the end of the day those could be worked around.

The biggest deterrent in my opinion is to educating the users of the
dangers such certs would do (i.e. all your passwords and bank info will be
viewable by ISPs) - thus it would be social rather than purely technical
solution.

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 1:33 PM Steinsplitter Wiki <
steinsplit...@wikipedia.de> wrote:

> That's shocking...
>
> >> I think this has serious implications for Wikipedia & Wikimedia, as not
> >> only they would be easily able to see which articles people read, but
> >> also steal login credentials, depseudonymize people and even hijack
> >> admin accounts.
>
> Yes, they can de-crypt the traffic. Hopefully browser vendors will
> disallow the root certificate.
> IMHO there isn't much WP can do, expect showing a warning if somebody is
> trying to login
> from the country in question.
>
> --Steinsplitter
>
> 
> Von: Wikimedia-l  im Auftrag von
> Yury Bulka 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juli 2019 12:36
> An: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
> Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Universal forced HTTPS backdoor in Kazakhstan
>
> I'm sure many have heard about this:
>
> https://thehackernews.com/2019/07/kazakhstan-https-security-certificate.html
>
> Essentially, the government in Kazakhstan started forcing citizens into
> installing a root TLS certificate on their devices that would allow the
> government to intercept, decrypt and manipulate all HTTPS traffic.
>
> Without the centificate, it seems, citizens can't access HTTPS pages (at
> least on some ISPs).
>
> I think this has serious implications for Wikipedia & Wikimedia, as not
> only they would be easily able to see which articles people read, but
> also steal login credentials, depseudonymize people and even hijack
> admin accounts.
>
> Another danger is that if this effort by Kazakhstan will succeed, other
> governments may start doing the same.
>
> I wonder if WMF has any position on this yet?
>
> Best,
> Yury.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Heat Maps

[Yuri Astrakhan]

So yes, technically it is a two minute work--allow ccby in commons data
namespace, but legal has to answer first if they want much more substantial
changes. I asked about a month ago for a clarification

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017, 11:38 James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It is all under a CC BY SA 4.0 license.
>
> You can also download all the data as a csv file.
>
> James
>
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > James, which open license? There is a request pending to allow non cc0
> > licensed data in commons, but still waiting for legal.
> >
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T178210
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017, 11:22 James Heilman <jmh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Our World in Data has created 100s of heat maps with scroll bars for
> > > adjusting the year. The maps as well as the underlying data is under an
> > > open license.
> > >
> > > Example include these https://ourworldindata.org/obesity/
> > >
> > > When one puts their cursor over the country in question they get the
> > > underlying data and the country is highlighted. What would be required
> > for
> > > use to support this sort of technology within Wikipedia?
> > >
> > > --
> > > James Heilman
> > > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > ___
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>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community Wishlist Survey: Top 10 wishes of 2017!

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Denny, thanks for organizing and publishing!

You mentioned that the comm-tech team is the one "responsible for
investigating and addressing the top 10 wishes". I think the community
views WMF as more of a monolith, and I hope these votes have wider impact
on foundation priorities.  After all, commtech is only about 3% of the
staff (10 out of 291 [1]). I surely hope there is significantly more than
3% to tackle community wishes.

I think that by voting for something, the community would like WMF to
prioritize these directions above others in terms of new development work.
In other words, community speaks of **what** we think are the most
important projects, and WMF thinks of **how** it gets done - e.g. by
allocating resources, setting up a community tech team, realigning the
goals of the other teams, hiring contractors, etc etc.  It would be strange
if foundation spent significant resources on a project with marginal
interest, while ignoring community priorities.

Obviously this only applies to the new software developments, not any of
the maintenance work foundation has to do.

Thanks!!

--[[user:yurik]]

[1]:  https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff_and_contractors

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Danny Horn  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> The Community Tech team is happy to announce the top 10 wishes from the
> 2017
> Community Wishlist Survey!
>
> More than 1,100 people participated in the survey this year -- proposing,
> discussing and voting on 214 ideas. There was a two-week period in November
> to submit and discuss proposals, followed by two weeks of support voting.
> The top 10 proposals with the most support votes now become Community
> Tech's backlog of projects to evaluate and address.
>
> And here's the new top 10:
>
> #1. Maps improvements (154 support votes)
> #2. Ping users from the edit summary (127)
> #3. Programs and events dashboard (111)
> #4. Blame tool (110)
> #5. Infobox wizard (106)
> #6. Article Alerts for more languages (102)
> #7. Auto-save edits (96)
> #7. Thanks notification for log entries (tie, 96)
> #9. SVG translation (94)
> #10. Commons deletion notification bot (91)
>
> You can see the whole list here, with links to proposals, project pages and
> Phabricator tickets:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2017_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Results
>
> So what happens next?
>
> In 2018, the Community Tech team is responsible for investigating and
> addressing the top 10 wishes. If there's a wish in the top 10 that we can't
> work on, because it's unfeasible or because another group is working on it,
> then we'll explain why we can't.
>
> To get updates on our progress:
>
> There are project pages for each of the top 10 wishes, which you can put on
> your watchlist. We'll update them as the project progresses. (At time of
> writing, these are just skeletons; actual information on each project is
> still to come.) Feel free to post questions and suggestions on the project
> talk pages: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Community_Tech_-
> _Current_projects
>
> If you're familiar with the Phabricator ticketing system, the main Phab
> task for each wish is noted on the Results page. You can also subscribe to
> those tickets for updates.
>
> We also publish several status reports through the year, to keep people
> updated. You can watch the main Community Tech page for updates:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech
>
> There are more questions and answers on the Wishlist Survey FAQ:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2017_Community_Wishlist_Survey/FAQ
>
> Thanks to everybody who proposed, discussed, debated and voted on ideas in
> this year's Wishlist Survey!
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

[Yuri Astrakhan]

For a while I have had a strong sensation, possibly unjustly so, of a
highly over-complicated result. There are many good words, but I keep not
seeing a simple, concise, intuitively understood statement.  I feel we are
still missing an understandable elevator pitch.  If asked, I seriously
doubt I would be able to explain where things are headed.

It is easy to explain in a complicated way.  It is very hard to explain it
simply.  Or as Einstein put it, “If you can't explain it simply, you don't
understand it well enough.”

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Guillaume Paumier 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> If you feel a strong urge to reject the text, there is obviously nothing
> preventing anyone from creating a Meta-Wiki page to that purpose. However,
> I would first ask to reflect on the process, its outcome, and where it's
> going.
>
> Strategy is complicated. Building a movement strategy even more so [
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/19/wikimedia-strategy-2030-discussions/
> ]. One person's serious issue may be another person's slight preference.
> People's serious issues may be at odds with each other (and I can tell you
> from experience that they are indeed). Balancing all those priorities is a
> difficult exercise, and I certainly don't claim to have done it perfectly.
> But I do think the outcome we've arrived at represents the shared vision of
> a large part of the movement.
>
> As I was writing, rewriting and editing the text of the direction, I did
> consider everything that was shared on the talk page, and the last version
> is indeed based on those comments, as well as those shared during multiple
> Wikimania sessions, individual chats, comments from the Drafting group,
> from affiliates, from staff, and so on.
>
> While I did consider all of those, I didn't respond to every single
> comment, and there is little I can do about that except apologize and
> endeavor to do better. I should have set clearer expectations that not
> every comment would be integrated in the text. I ran into an issue all too
> familiar in the Wikiverse where one person had to integrate comments and
> feedback from a large group of people at the same time.
>
> High-level vision and strategy integration isn't really something that can
> be spread across a group of people as easily as writing an encyclopedia
> article, and so I ended up being a bottleneck for responding to comments. I
> had to prioritize what I deemed were issues that were shared by a large
> group, and those that seemed to be more individual concerns.
>
> Anyone who knows me knows that I'm not the "everything must be positive,
> fantastic, yeehaw-we-are-number-one" type. If anything, I'm rather the
> opposite, as I think many Wikimedians are. If we had unlimited time, I'd
> probably continue to edit the draft for years, and I'm sure there would be
> other perfectionists to feed my obsession.
>
> However, others in my personal and professional circles have helped me
> realize in the past few weeks that even getting to this stage of the
> process is remarkable. As Wikimedians, we often focus on what's wrong and
> needs fixing. Sometimes, our negativity bias leads us to lose focus of the
> accomplishments. This can clash with the typical American culture, but I
> think somewhere in the middle is where those respective tunnel visions
> widen and meet.
>
> One thing I've learned from Ed Bland, my co-architect during this process,
> is that sometimes things can't be perfect. Sometimes, excellence means
> recognizing when something is "good enough" and getting out of the
> asymptotic editing and decision paralysis loop. It means accepting that a
> few things annoy us so that a larger group of people is excited and
> motivated to participate.
>
> From everything I've heard and read in the past two months, the last
> version of the direction is agreeable to a large part of individuals,
> groups, and organizations that have been involved in the process. Not
> everyone agrees with everything in the document, even within the
> Foundation, and even me. But enough people across the movement agree with
> enough of the document that we can all use it as a starting point for the
> next phase of discussions about roles, resources, and responsibilities.
>
> I do hope that many of you will consider endorsing the direction in a few
> weeks. While I won't claim to know everyone involved, I think I know you
> enough, Ziko and Fæ, from your work and long-time commitment in the
> movement, to venture that there is more in this document that you agree
> with than that you disagree with. I hope that the prospect of moving in a
> shared direction will outweigh the possible annoyances. And so I hope that
> we'll endorse the direction together, even if it's in our typically
> Wikimedian begrudging fashion.
>
>
> 2017-10-02 6:56 GMT-07:00 Ziko van Dijk :
>
> > Hello Katherine,
> >
> > This is actually sad news. In my opinion, the draft is far away 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing the Hardware donation program

[Yuri Astrakhan]

I really wish there was a way to ensure the laptop is safe, regardless of
its source. The chances with WMF laptop might be lower [citation needed],
but nothing is guaranteed, and a clean reinstall should be done regardless
(not a panacea).

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 7:11 PM Risker  wrote:

> Just noting as an aside that I'd be hesitant for the WMF to accept donated
> laptops for redistribution.  I expect that the WMF's own depreciated
> laptops can be warranted to be virus- and malware-free; I'd be a bit
> concerned from the risk mitigation perspective if they were to start
> providing equipment from third parties that the WMF itself hasn't made sure
> is safe, and I'm not sure it's the best use of WMF staff time to go through
> that verification process.  (Incidentally, I'd have the same concerns about
> chapters and other groups.)
>
> I do really like the idea of the WMF and other groups with depreciated,
> verified-safe hardware sharing this hardware with other Wikimedians, though
> - it's a great idea.  Laptops are the right things to start with; there may
> come a time where other electronic equipment  can be shared in a similar
> way.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 17 March 2017 at 17:11, Asaf Bartov  wrote:
>
> > I do know the Equipment exchange page, yes.  I do not consider it an
> > effective vehicle for this program.  Reviewing it now, I stand by it
> that a
> > dedicated space on Meta with an explicit form gathering the information
> we
> > need is a better fit.
> >
> > Also, the program is about laptops at the moment, and is based on
> > depreciated office laptops.  We don't have much photography gear in the
> > office, and aren't likely to have such gear to donate.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >A.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 10:14 AM Michael Maggs 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you Asaf.  Did you know that there is already a Commons page for
> > > Community donations?
> > >
> > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Equipment_exchange
> > >
> > > It would be worth linking your new Meta page to the existing one.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > Asaf Bartov 
> > > > 17 March 2017 at 6:06 am
> > > > Dear Wikimedians,
> > > >
> > > > The Wikimedia Foundation is pleased to announce a small new program
> > > called
> > > > the Hardware Donation Program. In a word, it is a program designed to
> > > > donate depreciated (but fully working) hardware from the WMF office
> to
> > > > community members who would put it to good use.
> > > >
> > > > The program, including instructions on how to apply, is described on
> > > Meta,
> > > > here:
> > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hardware_donation_program
> > > >
> > > > Please read the information carefully. I especially encourage you to
> > pay
> > > > attention to the program's design considerations, which determine
> most
> > of
> > > > the decisions we'll be making.
> > > >
> > > > We currently have approximately 20 laptops ready to be donated.
> > > > Applications are welcome.
> > > >
> > > > The upcoming Wikimedia Conference in Berlin (in about two weeks)
> would
> > be
> > > > an excellent opportunity to deliver some of those laptops in person
> to
> > > > approved applications, so if you think you might be interested, I'd
> > > > encourage you to apply as soon as possible.
> > > >
> > > > Please also help spread the word about this program, by forwarding
> this
> > > > e-mail to other Wikimedia lists you're on, and posting the link to
> the
> > > > program page on village pumps and *community* (not public) social
> media
> > > > channels or other communication forms you use.
> > > >
> > > > Special thanks to User:Anntinomy from Wikimedia Ukraine, who had the
> > idea
> > > > of asking about possible donation of older machines from WMF, and
> > > inspired
> > > > this program.
> > > >
> > > > Mini-FAQ:
> > > >
> > > > Q: Why are you doing this?
> > > > A: WMF's Office IT determines a lifetime for work machines, and
> > regularly
> > > > replaces older machines. This creates a stock of older, working
> > machines,
> > > > that are available for donation. We can donate them locally to San
> > > > Francisco charities, but figure that if we can find low-cost ways to
> > > > deliver them to our own community members, that's so much better.
> > > >
> > > > Q: Am I eligible?
> > > > A: Read the fine program documentation.
> > > >
> > > > Q: If I'm eligible, am I guaranteed a donated laptop?
> > > > A: no.
> > > >
> > > > Q: Once these 20 laptops are donated, will there be others?
> > > > A: yes, eventually.
> > > >
> > > > Q: How can you ensure people would use the machines for Wikimedia
> > > > purposes?
> > > > A: We can't. We'll be making a good-effort assessment of the
> likelihood
> > > of
> > > > Wikimedia use, and make a decision to donate (or not) the equipment.
> > Once
> > > > donated, the equipment no longer belongs to WMF. We encourage, but
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing the Hardware donation program

[Yuri Astrakhan]

I wonder if it would make sense to solicit 3rd party laptop donations for
this program? E.g. some businesses may be happy to donate their old laptops
to Wikipedia volunteers...  I am not sure how big of an overhead it would
be, but if WMF is already doing it, 20 vs 200 might not be a significant
difference (?) .

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 1:14 PM Michael Maggs  wrote:

> Thank you Asaf.  Did you know that there is already a Commons page for
> Community donations?
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Equipment_exchange
>
> It would be worth linking your new Meta page to the existing one.
>
> Michael
>
> > Asaf Bartov 
> > 17 March 2017 at 6:06 am
> > Dear Wikimedians,
> >
> > The Wikimedia Foundation is pleased to announce a small new program
> called
> > the Hardware Donation Program. In a word, it is a program designed to
> > donate depreciated (but fully working) hardware from the WMF office to
> > community members who would put it to good use.
> >
> > The program, including instructions on how to apply, is described on
> Meta,
> > here:
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hardware_donation_program
> >
> > Please read the information carefully. I especially encourage you to pay
> > attention to the program's design considerations, which determine most of
> > the decisions we'll be making.
> >
> > We currently have approximately 20 laptops ready to be donated.
> > Applications are welcome.
> >
> > The upcoming Wikimedia Conference in Berlin (in about two weeks) would be
> > an excellent opportunity to deliver some of those laptops in person to
> > approved applications, so if you think you might be interested, I'd
> > encourage you to apply as soon as possible.
> >
> > Please also help spread the word about this program, by forwarding this
> > e-mail to other Wikimedia lists you're on, and posting the link to the
> > program page on village pumps and *community* (not public) social media
> > channels or other communication forms you use.
> >
> > Special thanks to User:Anntinomy from Wikimedia Ukraine, who had the idea
> > of asking about possible donation of older machines from WMF, and
> inspired
> > this program.
> >
> > Mini-FAQ:
> >
> > Q: Why are you doing this?
> > A: WMF's Office IT determines a lifetime for work machines, and regularly
> > replaces older machines. This creates a stock of older, working machines,
> > that are available for donation. We can donate them locally to San
> > Francisco charities, but figure that if we can find low-cost ways to
> > deliver them to our own community members, that's so much better.
> >
> > Q: Am I eligible?
> > A: Read the fine program documentation.
> >
> > Q: If I'm eligible, am I guaranteed a donated laptop?
> > A: no.
> >
> > Q: Once these 20 laptops are donated, will there be others?
> > A: yes, eventually.
> >
> > Q: How can you ensure people would use the machines for Wikimedia
> > purposes?
> > A: We can't. We'll be making a good-effort assessment of the likelihood
> of
> > Wikimedia use, and make a decision to donate (or not) the equipment. Once
> > donated, the equipment no longer belongs to WMF. We encourage, but can't
> > enforce, reporting on impact achieved using the equipment.
> >
> > Q: I need a few laptops for my event in two weeks! Can I get them through
> > this program?
> > A: No. Read the fine program documentation.
> >
> > Q: I'm really happy about this!
> > A: So are we! :)
> >
> > Q: I'm really angry about this!
> > A: So it goes.
> >
> > Q: I have more questions!
> > A: Hit 'Reply'. :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Asaf
> > ___
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing the Hardware donation program

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Awesome, well done! Does the same program apply to servers?

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 1:20 AM Craig Franklin 
wrote:

> This is a fantastic idea.  Well done to everyone involved.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
> On 17 March 2017 at 15:06, Asaf Bartov  wrote:
>
> > Dear Wikimedians,
> >
> > The Wikimedia Foundation is pleased to announce a small new program
> called
> > the Hardware Donation Program.  In a word, it is a program designed to
> > donate depreciated (but fully working) hardware from the WMF office to
> > community members who would put it to good use.
> >
> > The program, including instructions on how to apply, is described on
> Meta,
> > here:
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hardware_donation_program
> >
> > Please read the information carefully. I especially encourage you to pay
> > attention to the program's design considerations, which determine most of
> > the decisions we'll be making.
> >
> > We currently have approximately 20 laptops ready to be donated.
> > Applications are welcome.
> >
> > The upcoming Wikimedia Conference in Berlin (in about two weeks) would be
> > an excellent opportunity to deliver some of those laptops in person to
> > approved applications, so if you think you might be interested, I'd
> > encourage you to apply as soon as possible.
> >
> > Please also help spread the word about this program, by forwarding this
> > e-mail to other Wikimedia lists you're on, and posting the link to the
> > program page on village pumps and *community* (not public) social media
> > channels or other communication forms you use.
> >
> > Special thanks to User:Anntinomy from Wikimedia Ukraine, who had the idea
> > of asking about possible donation of older machines from WMF, and
> inspired
> > this program.
> >
> > Mini-FAQ:
> >
> > Q: Why are you doing this?
> > A: WMF's Office IT determines a lifetime for work machines, and regularly
> > replaces older machines.  This creates a stock of older, working
> machines,
> > that are available for donation.  We can donate them locally to San
> > Francisco charities, but figure that if we can find low-cost ways to
> > deliver them to our own community members, that's so much better.
> >
> > Q: Am I eligible?
> > A: Read the fine program documentation.
> >
> > Q: If I'm eligible, am I guaranteed a donated laptop?
> > A: no.
> >
> > Q: Once these 20 laptops are donated, will there be others?
> > A: yes, eventually.
> >
> > Q: How can you ensure people would use the machines for Wikimedia
> purposes?
> > A: We can't.  We'll be making a good-effort assessment of the likelihood
> of
> > Wikimedia use, and make a decision to donate (or not) the equipment. Once
> > donated, the equipment no longer belongs to WMF. We encourage, but can't
> > enforce, reporting on impact achieved using the equipment.
> >
> > Q: I need a few laptops for my event in two weeks! Can I get them through
> > this program?
> > A: No. Read the fine program documentation.
> >
> > Q: I'm really happy about this!
> > A: So are we! :)
> >
> > Q: I'm really angry about this!
> > A: So it goes.
> >
> > Q: I have more questions!
> > A: Hit 'Reply'. :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >Asaf
> > ___
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> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
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[Wikimedia-l] Wiki maps news and updates

[Yuri Astrakhan]

The quest to bring maps to Wikipedia continues:
* Kartographer has launched for WikiVoyage
* Julien Girault will help maps with his UI expertise
* Talk to us at the FreeNode IRC channel #wikipedia-interactive

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Kartographer

Last week we enabled Kartographer extension for Wikivoyage sites, allowing
users to add maps to wiki pages without any additional wmflabs and
JavaScript tricks.  Now you can simply add a  or  to a
wiki page, or even use the Visual Editor to insert a map. Additionally, you
can:

* add markers and polygons visually
* edit geojson and see how it changes the map on each keystroke
* add auto-numbered markers (either numbers or letters), and have multiple
counters
* have multiple "groups" of markers/polygons and showing them on the same
map or on separate maps (e.g. all food and all drink maps and one combined
map)
* markers can be of any color, 3 sizes, and contain many different icons
* markers and polygons can be clicked and will show popups with wiki text
and images
* very fast full screen popup map

Feedback: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Maps
Bugs & TODOs: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/kartographer/
All maps-related tasks: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/maps/

== What's next? ==
There will be plenty of cleanup and polishing work to make Kartographer
work seamlessly. We will need to address the missing functionality reported
to us by the community, and help migrate existing wmflabs-based maps to the
new platform. Lastly, VE editing will need some more work to become
indispensable.

Yet, our site is still set on the bigger target - maps for all of
Wikipedia. For that we are waiting for more hardware, plus we will need to
improve our static maps service to be able to handle wiki-load.

Hardware task: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125126


Thank you Max Semenik, Ed Sanders, Alex Kosiaris, Brandon Black, Chris
Koerner, Chris Steipp, Tomasz Finc, and Wes Moran for making this possible.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What kind of ED would you like to see?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Greg, agree 100%, but that's not how I understood the question and the
results of the staff survey. It seemed the staff expected the vision from
the ED/Management.

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 3:31 AM, Greg Grossmeier  wrote:

> 
> > Subbu, one of the chief complains I heard about Lila was that she did not
> > provide a clear vision. Yet, if we choose stewardship over leadership,
> > that, at least in my mind, implies more of a mediator than a leader,
> > without providing any clear vision themselves.  So is vision no longer a
> > requirement from the ED?
>
> Vision shouldn't be a one-person created thing.
>
> Greg
>
> --
> | Greg GrossmeierGPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
> | identi.ca: @gregA18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] What kind of ED would you like to see?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Subbu, one of the chief complains I heard about Lila was that she did not
provide a clear vision. Yet, if we choose stewardship over leadership,
that, at least in my mind, implies more of a mediator than a leader,
without providing any clear vision themselves.  So is vision no longer a
requirement from the ED?

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 3:01 AM, Subramanya Sastry 
wrote:

> On 02/26/2016 05:39 PM, Lodewijk wrote:
>
>> I would suggest you discuss what kind of qualities you seek in an ED,
>>
>
> Having more of an attitude stewardship over leadership .. i.e. this is not
> a place or space to primarily fulfil personal ambitions.
>
> Subbu.
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lawrence Lessig for ... WMF

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Lodewijk, this is a very valid point, thanks.  My understanding is that
this process done in private has lost some of its credibility with the
staff and the community, and thus I would like to get some understanding on
how we can do that same process in the open, without offending anyone.  In
the wiki world, I think most of the time people
have publicly nominated candidates for various roles, and that has not been
a concern. Of course the nick names provide some degree of anonymity, so
this might not be exactly the same.

On Feb 27, 2016 01:57, "Lodewijk" <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:

> While I love public discussions, I must say I always feel a bit awkward to
> discuss people in public, unless there is no other choice.
>
> To discuss people without them agreeing to it, may even be considered rude
> by some. You're throwing up names, which can realistically only lead to
> people supporting it, because if you would be against it, it would possibly
> be a slap in the face of someone you like.
>
> If you really see a serious potential candidate, why not send it to the
> board? or, once a public call is being made, point those people to it.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Yuri Astrakhan <yastrak...@wikimedia.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > For the inside, I would think Yana W would be a good candidate, but as
> Raul
> > Veede suggested on FB, it would be bad to loose her expertise in her
> > current role.
> >
> > Dan, I think you are right that we are not yet ready to have a drop-in
> > replacement simply because we should figure out what went wrong first.
> > Possibly we shouldn't even have an ED, but rather have a flatter
> > community-driven committee that allocates funds, and projects getting
> > resources from it. And this committee would, in affect, be the
> > direction-determining force.
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 1:23 AM, Oliver Keyes <ironho...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm agreed with Dan and Nathan (well, Nathan's implied point) both.
> > >
> > > Right now we need stability. I'd much prefer an interim ED appointed
> > > from inside the organisation or movement, ideally someone who has been
> > > watching what's been going on. And then time for healing and
> > > reflection in that space of stability that lets us make a better
> > > decision.
> > >
> > > I have no particular opinions on Lessig - or on Creative Commons -
> > > except to note that the organisational leaders are the people whose
> > > opinions on trauma around reorganisations least matter, insofar as,
> > > structurally, they are both the people least likely to be messed over
> > > by them and the people most detached from any swirling mass of feeling
> > > that exists in the employee base. I'd be interested instead in hearing
> > > from current or former employees (I know a couple and they are not as
> > > positive, but it's a small sample size) to make any evaluation more
> > > informed.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Dan Andreescu <
> dandree...@wikimedia.org
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > I met him, he's amazingly focused and radical, I appreciate his brand
> > of
> > > intellect very much. But I think suggesting candidates for the ED
> > position
> > > at this time is jumping two steps ahead of where we are.
> > > >
> > > > We just screwed up. We were all dragged through months of an awkward
> > > collapse of our leadership and organizational structure. Before we
> start
> > > piling the rubble of this collapse back up into the same exact shape
> > with a
> > > different keystone, let's take a breath and think.
> > > >
> > > > First we should make sure we understand what, more or less, failed.
> It
> > > was not just Lila. Second, we should talk about what options we have
> and
> > > what criteria we should use to evaluate those options.
> > > >
> > > > We can be patient. We have reaffirmed our respect for each other and
> we
> > > trust each other enough to share ideas, emotions, and proposals. This
> is
> > > our foundation, and it hasn't collapsed.
> > > >
> > > >   Original Message
> > > > From: Yuri Astrakhan
> > > > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 16:47
> > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > Reply To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Lawrence Lessig for ... WMF
> > > >
> > > > I would like to continue the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Lawrence Lessig for ... WMF

[Yuri Astrakhan]

For the inside, I would think Yana W would be a good candidate, but as Raul
Veede suggested on FB, it would be bad to loose her expertise in her
current role.

Dan, I think you are right that we are not yet ready to have a drop-in
replacement simply because we should figure out what went wrong first.
Possibly we shouldn't even have an ED, but rather have a flatter
community-driven committee that allocates funds, and projects getting
resources from it. And this committee would, in affect, be the
direction-determining force.

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 1:23 AM, Oliver Keyes <ironho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm agreed with Dan and Nathan (well, Nathan's implied point) both.
>
> Right now we need stability. I'd much prefer an interim ED appointed
> from inside the organisation or movement, ideally someone who has been
> watching what's been going on. And then time for healing and
> reflection in that space of stability that lets us make a better
> decision.
>
> I have no particular opinions on Lessig - or on Creative Commons -
> except to note that the organisational leaders are the people whose
> opinions on trauma around reorganisations least matter, insofar as,
> structurally, they are both the people least likely to be messed over
> by them and the people most detached from any swirling mass of feeling
> that exists in the employee base. I'd be interested instead in hearing
> from current or former employees (I know a couple and they are not as
> positive, but it's a small sample size) to make any evaluation more
> informed.
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Dan Andreescu <dandree...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
> > I met him, he's amazingly focused and radical, I appreciate his brand of
> intellect very much. But I think suggesting candidates for the ED position
> at this time is jumping two steps ahead of where we are.
> >
> > We just screwed up. We were all dragged through months of an awkward
> collapse of our leadership and organizational structure. Before we start
> piling the rubble of this collapse back up into the same exact shape with a
> different keystone, let's take a breath and think.
> >
> > First we should make sure we understand what, more or less, failed. It
> was not just Lila. Second, we should talk about what options we have and
> what criteria we should use to evaluate those options.
> >
> > We can be patient. We have reaffirmed our respect for each other and we
> trust each other enough to share ideas, emotions, and proposals. This is
> our foundation, and it hasn't collapsed.
> >
> >   Original Message
> > From: Yuri Astrakhan
> > Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 16:47
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Reply To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Lawrence Lessig for ... WMF
> >
> > I would like to continue the discussion of who, in an ideal case, would
> be
> > a good fit for the ED position. This person has to fit culturally, share
> > movement's values, and be a trusted figure in the time of rebuilding.
> >
> > Lawrence Lessig seems to have a very strong support in the community, and
> > even attempted to run (unsuccessfully) a large organization called United
> > States.
> >
> > Thoughts?
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[Wikimedia-l] Lawrence Lessig for ... WMF

[Yuri Astrakhan]

I would like to continue the discussion of who, in an ideal case, would be
a good fit for the ED position.  This person has to fit culturally, share
movement's values, and be a trusted figure in the time of rebuilding.

Lawrence Lessig seems to have a very strong support in the community, and
even attempted to run (unsuccessfully) a large organization called United
States.

Thoughts?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are we too rigid?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Guillaume, the idea may come from anywhere, shouldn't we post the process
on meta? Or is this WMF specific, e.g. "I want my favorite cereal in the
cafeteria" proposal? :)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are we too rigid?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Oliver, that's a fair point, but my idea can be expanded to non-products.
The only difference here is that everyone becomes group #2 - having to
convince others via social means.  If the idea is not very visual, it has
to be painted with words, so maybe our amazing community liaisons or other
writers might be able to help with their writing prowess.

My main point is that we should have a well understood "idea path" - from
inception to getting feedback, and well known resources to rely on.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Oliver Keyes <ironho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Yuri Astrakhan
> <yastrak...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > Oliver, thanks!
> >
> >> In other words, the litmus test for me is: what happens when the
> socially
> > and politically weakest person in the organisation has an idea?
> >
> > If we speak of a "product" idea, we have two groups of people - those who
> > can implement the idea, and those who would need to convince others to do
> > it.  They use fundamentally different, scarcely overlapping skill-sets.
> An
> > engineer might go via the "hackathon + demo" route, implementing
> something
> > simple and showing it to gain traction. A non-engineer would start with
> the
> > social aspect first - talking to others if the idea is worth pursuing,
> how
> > hard is it to do, and eventually - convincing others to allocate their
> > time/resources to do it. Sometimes an engineer may go the social route
> > instead, but it would be very hard for a non-engineer to engage in
> > development. Lastly, the "designer" group has an amazing skill-set to
> > visually present their full vision rather than the demo, thus often
> having
> > easier time of conveying their thoughts.
> >
> > In a sense, the barrier of entry for the person in the "weakest position"
> > would not be as high for the "doer" as for the "inspirer". So I think the
> > real challenge is how do we capture and evaluate those ideas from the
> > second group? Also, no matter how hard we try, it would be either very
> > hard, or very expensive (and not just financially) to force the
> > implementers to do an idea they do not believe in. So in a sense, doers
> > need to be persuaded first and foremost.
> >
> > As with any explanation, a picture == 1000 words, so we could promote
> "idea
> > visualizers" - designers who are easily approachable and could help to
> draw
> > up a few sketches of the idea.
>
>
> My email opened with "I think reducing things to engineering terms are
> sort of indicative of the problem here". I'm not talking about code.
> I'm not talking about designs. I'm not talking about software
> products. And thinking about it in terms of engineering projects,
> which is what we do as an organisation a lot, will not be helpful. If
> it did, then after several years of insisting that we are primarily a
> tech shop, we would hopefully not still be having conversations about
> structure and direction!
>
> What I am talking about is ideas generally. They might be about
> software products. They might be about social products, a la the
> teahouse. They might be about how to tweak our process by which we
> interact with the community. They might be that our hiring process is
> kinda weird and here's this one cool way we could look at improving
> it. They might be that the break room snacks _suck_ (again,
> hypothetical: they're fine. Sorry, Facilities).
>
> In any case, the litmus test is just that; a litmus test. Our
> structure should be designed cognizant to these problems, and then
> pass the test, but not be designed *specifically* to pass the test.
> And the designer idea seems pretty hyper-optimised just for the test.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are we too rigid?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Oliver, thanks!

> In other words, the litmus test for me is: what happens when the socially
and politically weakest person in the organisation has an idea?

If we speak of a "product" idea, we have two groups of people - those who
can implement the idea, and those who would need to convince others to do
it.  They use fundamentally different, scarcely overlapping skill-sets. An
engineer might go via the "hackathon + demo" route, implementing something
simple and showing it to gain traction. A non-engineer would start with the
social aspect first - talking to others if the idea is worth pursuing, how
hard is it to do, and eventually - convincing others to allocate their
time/resources to do it. Sometimes an engineer may go the social route
instead, but it would be very hard for a non-engineer to engage in
development. Lastly, the "designer" group has an amazing skill-set to
visually present their full vision rather than the demo, thus often having
easier time of conveying their thoughts.

In a sense, the barrier of entry for the person in the "weakest position"
would not be as high for the "doer" as for the "inspirer". So I think the
real challenge is how do we capture and evaluate those ideas from the
second group? Also, no matter how hard we try, it would be either very
hard, or very expensive (and not just financially) to force the
implementers to do an idea they do not believe in. So in a sense, doers
need to be persuaded first and foremost.

As with any explanation, a picture == 1000 words, so we could promote "idea
visualizers" - designers who are easily approachable and could help to draw
up a few sketches of the idea.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are we too rigid?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Does it make sense to have an "Incubator team" ("Bell Labs" if you will),
whose core competency is to nurture small projects? When projects are
mature and need to switch into maintenance mode, they move under the
umbrella of a different team.



On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 5:06 AM, Brion Vibber  wrote:

> On Feb 23, 2016 5:52 PM, "Dan Andreescu"  wrote:
> >
> > but also, some projects that were not so useful, sure.  But we learn,
> move
> > on, we're not the first group of people to make mistakes : )
>
> Yep... High-tech organizations call it "failing fast".
>
> -- Brion
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Are we too rigid?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Something in Oliver's departure email caught my eye:


*  "Because we are scared and in pain and hindered by structural biases and
hierarchy, we are worse at our jobs." (quoted with Oliver's permission)*

And that got me thinking. WMF, an organization that was built with the open
and community-driven principles - why have we became the classic example of
a corporate multi-level hierarchy? Should we mimic a living organism rather
than a human-built pyramid?

This may sound naive and wishful, but could we have a more flat and
flexible team structure, where instead of having large teams with
sub-teams, we would have small self-forming teams "by interest".  For
example, someone decides to dedicate their 20% to building support for
storing 3D models in wiki. Their efforts are noticed, the community shows
its support, and WMF reacts by increasing project resourcing. Or the
opposite - the community questions the need of a project, and neither the
team nor WMF can convincingly justify it - the project resources are
gradually reduced.

An organism reacts to the change of its environment by redistributing
resources to the more problematic areas. Would small, flexible, and more
focused teams achieve that better?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Powerful on-wiki art visualization

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Who said you cannot already use Wikidata Query service? ))

https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph/Demo/Sparql/Largest_disasters

Limitation at the moment - not enabled for interactive graphs yet until we
make better caching.
On Feb 23, 2016 16:17, "Magnus Manske" <magnusman...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Especially once it supports the Wikidata query engine.
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:12 PM <subhash...@cis-india.org> wrote:
>
> > Amazing stuff! This is going to change the face of Wikipedia.
> >
> > Best!
> > Subhashish Panigrahi
> > Programme Officer, Access To Knowledge
> > Centre for Internet and Society
> > @subhapa / https://cis-india.org
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Edward Saperia" <edsape...@gmail.com>
> > To: "UK Wikimedia mailing list" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 6:38:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Powerful on-wiki art visualization
> >
> > This... is... amazing!! The idea of commonly seeing these on Wikipedia
> > pages fills me with immense joy!
> >
> > It seems to me like we might be able to kick off a big project to create
> > and promote useful templates and guides for creating these. The dataviz
> > movement is very popular among designers and journalists, and they're
> > always looking for tools, lessons and data to practise on. Are there any
> > existing efforts to popularise this, or would anyone like to help me do
> so?
> >
> > *Edward Saperia*
> > Founder Newspeak House <http://www.nwspk.com/>
> > Conference Director Wikimania 2014 <http://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org>
> > email <edsape...@gmail.com> • facebook <
> http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia>
> > •
> >  twitter <http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia> • 07796955572
> > 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
> >
> > On 23 February 2016 at 03:15, Yuri Astrakhan <yastrak...@wikimedia.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > First complex interactive graph in Wikipedia explores the most
> expensive
> > > paintings in history. Move the mouse around to view images, click the
> > > period or artist to highlight their work.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_paintings#Interactive_graph
> > >
> > > Thank you Jane [[user:Jhoffswell]], the VegaJS team, and
> > [[user:Primaler]]
> > > who designed the original graph!
> > >
> > > P.S. See graph demo page for examples and tutorial links
> > > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph/Demo
> > >
> > > P.P.S. The "click to open a page" feature is still missing in Graphs
> > > extension, but is on my todo list.
> > > ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Powerful on-wiki art visualization

[Yuri Astrakhan]

First complex interactive graph in Wikipedia explores the most expensive
paintings in history. Move the mouse around to view images, click the
period or artist to highlight their work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_paintings#Interactive_graph

Thank you Jane [[user:Jhoffswell]], the VegaJS team, and [[user:Primaler]]
who designed the original graph!

P.S. See graph demo page for examples and tutorial links
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph/Demo

P.P.S. The "click to open a page" feature is still missing in Graphs
extension, but is on my todo list.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [discovery] USA elections in real time - as viewed by Wikipedia users

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Gergo, good to know, thanks.  Graph extension itself does not know how long
the data is valid - it simply gets a URL from which to get the pageviews
(or any other) data. At this point, only the person who writes the graph
template knows how long its valid for.

We could add an extra attribute to the graph, e.g. 
(number of minutes), to let graph extension update cache expiry.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:04 PM, Gergo Tisza <gti...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Yuri Astrakhan <yastrak...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > It will be updated whenever the page containing the template is
> > re-generated (e.g. the page is changed, or someone does a null-save).  I
> > heard that every page is forcefully regenerated if its older than 30
> days,
> >
>
> Yes, and extension tags embedded in the page can reduce that, so if the
> graph has a way of knowing how long the data will be valid, it can tell
> that to the parser via ParserOutput::updateCacheExpiry.
> As a hacky manual workaround, you can put  style="display:none">{{CURRENTHOUR}} into the page to force hourly
> refresh.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [discovery] USA elections in real time - as viewed by Wikipedia users

[Yuri Astrakhan]

It will be updated whenever the page containing the template is
re-generated (e.g. the page is changed, or someone does a null-save).  I
heard that every page is forcefully regenerated if its older than 30 days,
but I might be mistaken. We should at some point figure out a way to
force-regenerate some of these graphs, but I am not yet sure how to
approach that.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Deborah Tankersley <
dtankers...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Very cool! Will it be updated automatically on a daily basis? :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Deb
>
> --
> Deb Tankersley
> Product Manager, Discovery
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Yuri Astrakhan <yastrak...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Yurik/US_Politics_Real_Time
>>
>> Thanks Dario Taraborelli for the idea.
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [discovery] USA elections in real time - as viewed by Wikipedia users

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Max, it seems Vermin Supreme is no longer running :)

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Max Semenik <maxsem.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

> W00t! I had to add an important candidate though:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=15358086 ;)
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Yuri Astrakhan <yastrak...@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Yurik/US_Politics_Real_Time
>>
>> Thanks Dario Taraborelli for the idea.
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
>
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[Wikimedia-l] USA elections in real time - as viewed by Wikipedia users

[Yuri Astrakhan]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Yurik/US_Politics_Real_Time

Thanks Dario Taraborelli for the idea.
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[Wikimedia-l] State of Wikipedia Maps

[Yuri Astrakhan]

The Discovery's maps team would like to share the progress we have been
making, and our future goals.

* Kartographer extension is getting closer to being deployed. It will allow
editors to insert a map and add article specific data into wiki pages.
Kartographer has a neat Visual Editor interface thanks to Ed Sanders. We
hope to add a good VE maps editor there as well. See [1]
* Wikipedia Android app now shows all nearby articles on a map (Kudos to
Dmitry Brant)
* GeoHack (gps link in the upper right corner) for Russian and Italian
Wikipedias have switched to the new map. English wiki will have it soon as
well (Kudos to Putnik and Legoktm)
* English & Russian WikiVoyage has switched to the new map
* Maps database is automatically refreshed from OSM (thanks to Max Semenik
and Alex Kosiaris)
* We now have a map without place labels [2]

[1] DEMO:  http://vem3.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page
[2] https://maps.wikimedia.org/?s=osm


*== Community Projects ==*
* Simon Legner has been actively developing article map [3] with some help
from Tim Alder and Daniel Schwen
* Several people are working on Wikimaps Warper [4] tool to add and
position scanned map images.
* Kartotherian tile server code has been improved [5] and deployed to a
non-WMF site. This makes us very happy because it shows that our code is
useful to others.

[3]
https://tools.wmflabs.org/wiwosm/osm-gadget-leaflet/#/?lang=de=Berlin
[4] http://wikimaps.wikimedia.fi/wikimaps-tools/wikimaps-warper/
[5] https://github.com/zoondka/kartozoa


*== Future plans / goals ==*
This quarter, our goal is to improve the content discovery experience on
Wikivoyage by rolling out maps to all Wikivoyages.  Specific tasks can be
tracked in Phabricator: #maps [6], #kartographer [7]. These are some of the
tasks we plan to do:

* Deploy Kartographer extension to Wikivoyage
* Add maps editor to Kartographer
* Work with Operations to make maps a production-level service. This
includes adding more caching and backend servers.
* Offer maps as a more stable and feature rich alternative to
geohack/wiwosm/WikiMiniAtlas
* Implement cross-wiki shared data storage
* Implement static service capable of generating a map image with the
article-specific overlays
* Allow editors to add maps directly to Wikipedia
* Implement the most requested features from the Future Plans [8]

[6] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/maps/
[7] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/kartographer/
[8] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Future_Plans
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wmfall] Community Wishlist Survey: Top 10 wishes!

[Yuri Astrakhan]

>
> #3. Central global repository for templates, gadgets and Lua modules  (87)
>

I would love to participate in this - I feel it would bring different
language communities much closer together.  And great for Graphs & Maps.


> #7. Pageview Stats tool  (70)
>

We could even do it on-wiki like here
 - it shows
how to draw a graph from pageviews API, and this graph extension
 can add
HTML controls to it.

Awesome list, thanks for getting more community involvement!
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[Wikimedia-l] GRAPH extension is now live everywhere!

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Starting today, editors can use *graph* tag to include complex graphs and
maps inside articles.

*Demo:* https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph/Demo
*Vega's demo:* http://trifacta.github.io/vega/editor/?spec=scatter_matrix
*Extension info:* https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph
*Vega's docs:* https://github.com/trifacta/vega/wiki
*Bug reports:* https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/ - project tag #graph

Graph tag support template parameter expansion. There is also a Graphoid
service to convert graphs into images. Currently, Graphoid is used in case
the browser does not support modern JavaScript, but I plan to use it for
all anonymous users - downloading large JS code needed to render graphs is
significantly slower than showing an image.

Potential future growth (developers needed!):
* Documentation and better tutorials
* Visualize as you type - show changes in graph while editing its code
* Visual Editor's plugin
* Animation https://github.com/trifacta/vega/wiki/Interaction-Scenarios

Project history: Exactly one year ago, Dan Andreescu (milimetric) and Jon
Robson demoed Vega visualization grammar https://trifacta.github.io/vega/
usage in MediaWiki. The project stayed dormant for almost half a year,
until Zero team decided it was a good solution to do on-wiki graphs. The
project was rewritten, and gained many new features, such as template
parameters. Yet, doing graphs just for Zero portal seemed silly. Wider
audience meant that we now had to support older browsers, thus Graphoid
service was born.

This project could not have happened without the help from Dan Andreescu,
Brion Vibber, Timo Tijhof, Chris Steipp, Max Semenik,  Marko Obrovac,
Alexandros Kosiaris, Jon Robson, Gabriel Wicke, and others who have helped
me develop,  test, instrument, and deploy Graph extension and Graphoid
service. I also would like to thank the Vega team for making this amazing
library.

--Yurik
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] GRAPH extension is now live everywhere!

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Thanks Alice :)

Aleksey, the graphs were never off on meta. Please check if your graphs
show any errors in the browser console - I did update the underlying
libraries several times.


On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Alice Wiegand me.ly...@gmail.com wrote:

 I miss a thank you or like button on this mailing list. Looks great.
 Thank you!
 Alice.

 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Aleksey Bilogur 
 aleksey.bilo...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Was this why it was offline on meta for a couple of weeks?
 
  Amazing! I have an immediate use for this on the en.wikipedia.
  On May 5, 2015 4:25 PM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
 
   Starting today, editors can use *graph* tag to include complex graphs
  and
   maps inside articles.
  
   *Demo:* https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph/Demo
   *Vega's demo:*
  http://trifacta.github.io/vega/editor/?spec=scatter_matrix
   *Extension info:* https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph
   *Vega's docs:* https://github.com/trifacta/vega/wiki
   *Bug reports:* https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/ - project tag #graph
  
   Graph tag support template parameter expansion. There is also a
 Graphoid
   service to convert graphs into images. Currently, Graphoid is used in
  case
   the browser does not support modern JavaScript, but I plan to use it
 for
   all anonymous users - downloading large JS code needed to render graphs
  is
   significantly slower than showing an image.
  
   Potential future growth (developers needed!):
   * Documentation and better tutorials
   * Visualize as you type - show changes in graph while editing its code
   * Visual Editor's plugin
   * Animation 
 https://github.com/trifacta/vega/wiki/Interaction-Scenarios
  
  
   Project history: Exactly one year ago, Dan Andreescu (milimetric) and
 Jon
   Robson demoed Vega visualization grammar 
  https://trifacta.github.io/vega/
   
   usage in MediaWiki. The project stayed dormant for almost half a year,
   until Zero team decided it was a good solution to do on-wiki graphs.
 The
   project was rewritten, and gained many new features, such as template
   parameters. Yet, doing graphs just for Zero portal seemed silly. Wider
   audience meant that we now had to support older browsers, thus Graphoid
   service was born.
  
   This project could not have happened without the help from Dan
 Andreescu,
   Brion Vibber, Timo Tijhof, Chris Steipp, Max Semenik,  Marko Obrovac,
   Alexandros Kosiaris, Jon Robson, Gabriel Wicke, and others who have
  helped
   me develop,  test, instrument, and deploy Graph extension and Graphoid
   service. I also would like to thank the Vega team for making this
 amazing
   library.
  
   --Yurik
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[Wikimedia-l] UTC in politics, editors threaten, or how rev history made the news

[Yuri Astrakhan]

A few days ago, a well known Russian politician Boris Nemtsov was
assassinated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Boris_Nemtsov near
the Kremlin. This murder had a huge political resonance, and conspiracy
theories flourished. Yet, one of the theories was due to Wikipedia's
representation of time - anonymous users see change history in UTC. This
confusion was so big, that several major publications, including Moskovkij
Komsomolets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskovskij_Komsomolets,
published articles
http://www.mk.ru/politics/2015/02/28/vikipediya-zaranee-otchitalas-ob-ubiystve-nemcova-zapis-poyavilas-v-2140.html
(in
Russian) claiming that the wiki page proclaimed him dead before the
assassination. The MK article was later updated with the explanation, but
the damage has been done: a number of threats were made against the editors.

In light of the above, I feel we need to
  #1 Show a clear message at the top of all history-related pages for
anonymous users that the time is in UTC until #2
  #2 JavaScript should fix time on the fly for all users

Suggestions welcome.

Thanks!
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] UTC in politics, editors threaten, or how rev history made the news

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Threats:  This page
http://novorus.info/news/analytics/34163-vikipediya-soobschila-ob-ubiystve-nemcova-za-2-chasa-do-samogo-ubiystva.html
(in Russian, very non-credible source of information, but has enough
following to make it to MK.ru), discuss a well known wikipedian Dmitry
Rozhkov.  I saw these kinds of comments (in ru):

В любом случае данная страница появилась ОЧЕНЬ быстро! Только на ее
написание ушел бы час. Поэтому автора надо брать и выворачивать наизнанку!
(Translation: in any case, this page appeared VERY quickly! It would have
taken at least an hour to write. That's why we should grab the author and
turn him inside out)

From MK.ru:
Источник МК в сфере IT-индустрии уверяет, что время правок дается по
московскому времени. Можешь сейчас сам правку сделать и убедиться, -
аргументировал собеседник.
(Translation: The source in MK in IT industry confirms that the revision
time is given according to Moscow. You can make a change yourself and see
for yourself said the expert).

The problem is that this one case caused enough confusion that RU wiki
admins are looking for a way to state this at the top of the page. Showing
a short message at the top all time is in UTC seems to be easy and
obvious enough, and I am surprised it has not been done yet.  Phabricator
task:  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T91255


Re implementation in the long term:  The current HTML shows
a href=... title=... class=mw-changeslist-date23:52, 18 February
2015‎/a  (localized, UTC)

Instead, we could show

a href=... title=... class=mw-changeslist-datetime
datetime=2015-02-18 23:5223:52, 18 February 2015‎ UTC/time/a, and
let JS (if present) change it to the proper timezone.



On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Oliver Keyes ironho...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, not all users have JavaScript. But, on the core of the proposal:

 What threats? What users? How many, how serious? Have they been
 reported to Legal and Community Advocacy? These are the questions we
 tend to ask about this sort of issue. Do we need to insert technical
 features to prevent it? tends to come after a series of occurrences,
 and I'm only aware of two in the last six years or so. We shouldn't
 let one-offs dictate our UI direction and bandwidth load.

 But if we're going to implement something, why not just..have timezone
 be an element of the timestamps on history pages? It's UTC unless the
 user explicitly changes it, and if they explicitly change it that's
 known in the database (and already referenced to decide how to convert
 the UTC timestamp when the page is displayed). It's a perfectly
 sensible UI change that makes sense independent of this problem.

 On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
  A few days ago, a well known Russian politician Boris Nemtsov was
  assassinated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Boris_Nemtsov
 near
  the Kremlin. This murder had a huge political resonance, and conspiracy
  theories flourished. Yet, one of the theories was due to Wikipedia's
  representation of time - anonymous users see change history in UTC. This
  confusion was so big, that several major publications, including
 Moskovkij
  Komsomolets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskovskij_Komsomolets,
  published articles
  
 http://www.mk.ru/politics/2015/02/28/vikipediya-zaranee-otchitalas-ob-ubiystve-nemcova-zapis-poyavilas-v-2140.html
 
  (in
  Russian) claiming that the wiki page proclaimed him dead before the
  assassination. The MK article was later updated with the explanation, but
  the damage has been done: a number of threats were made against the
 editors.
 
  In light of the above, I feel we need to
#1 Show a clear message at the top of all history-related pages for
  anonymous users that the time is in UTC until #2
#2 JavaScript should fix time on the fly for all users
 
  Suggestions welcome.
 
  Thanks!
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [WikimediaMobile] Where to redirect m.wikipedia.org?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Ok, so it seems the redirect to WWW would be better than language
auto-detect.

Before I switch it from the English mobile (current) to WWW, we have to
make sure that WWW is ready - as that would affect all mobile users. Jon,
how much work do you think that would be?


On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Jon Robson jdlrob...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd keep it redirecting to http://www.wikipedia.org/ which I worked
 previously on to optimise for mobile.

 The only difference I'd make to the existing homepage is to reverse
 the media queries. Currently media queries are used to optimise the
 page for mobile phones. Unfortunately however if you have an old phone
 that doesn't support media queries you will get the old website.

 What would actually be better is to make mobile the default and use
 media queries for desktop computers to apply styles to turn the page
 into a more desktop friendly view. All modern browsers on desktop
 support media queries [1] and update more frequently then mobile
 devices. The only browsers you'd have to worry about is IE6-8 but
 there are conditional css tricks to get around this problem.

 I think previously I worked with Timo (Krinkle) to get this up and running.

 [1] http://caniuse.com/css-mediaqueries

 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan 
  srik.r...@wikimedia.in wrote:
 
  I agree with James. I'd like to m.wikipedia land up at a portal with a
  language list and selector.
 
 
  +1
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 --
 Jon Robson
 http://jonrobson.me.uk
 @rakugojon

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[Wikimedia-l] Mobile starting page design for Zero users

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Zero http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Zero team would like
to be more involved with the community, and discuss the functionality of
the Zero starting page.

For Zero users, when visiting m.wikipedia.org, we have to show a custom
start page tailored to the specific mobile provider. A typical startup page
has a custom banner, e.g. Free Wikipedia provided by [Company], and a
list of common languages in that country. The language of the page is
always set to the provider's default language.

A partner suggested that we add some additional text on the startup page,
as otherwise the page looks empty and not very inspiring. That text would
be an HTML blob, similar to the WWW page, but significantly smaller due to
most devices having a tiny screen. The text would be different depending on
the default language set by the provider, and could also differ between
various projects - Wikipedia vs Wikinews. The text would be stored on
translatewiki, with the overrides residing in the project's MediaWiki: page.

The text could be a one sentence welcome to {{SITENAME}}, it could be
some famous quote, a news item, word of the day, link to featured article,
or anything else the community may decide to post. See sample screenshots
for 
Androidhttp://media.crossbrowsertesting.com/users/47339/screenshots/full/zf03c69c9ea2c346cc28.png,
iPhonehttp://media.crossbrowsertesting.com/users/47339/screenshots/full/z219b703e8b6be6627b3.png,
iPadhttp://media.crossbrowsertesting.com/users/47339/screenshots/full/zf7c8f049d9edbfbab9a.png
)

What would be the best process to maintain that text? What other possible
customization would be needed to make this beneficial? Please keep in mind
that most of the users coming to this page will be directed there by the
carrier advertising Free Wikipedia, so a lot of new users.

P.S. If you think this discussion should be on
metahttp://meta.wikimedia.org/,
please let me know of the best location.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mobile starting page design for Zero users

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Just to clarify - the banner text, unlike the rest of the page, is written
and translated into many languages by the telecoms (see below). I'm much
more concerned with how the community wants to work with the rest of that
page and what text it should contain.

** English examples I have seen:
Enjoy Browsing Wikipedia for free with Company
Free Wikipedia access by Company
Free Wikipedia access provided by Company
Free Wikipedia from Company
Wikipedia @ ZERO CHARGE from Company
Wikipedia access offered by Company



On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Tobias church.of.emacs...@googlemail.comwrote:

 On 12/06/2013 11:44 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:

 A typical startup page has a custom banner, e.g. Free Wikipedia
 provided by [Company], and a list of common languages in that
 country.


 I realize this is merely a minor aspect and might trigger a tedious
 debate, but Free Wikipedia is far from ideal. Wikipedia's tagline is the
 free encyclopedia, where free clearly points to libre, not gratis
 carrier coverage. By using free in a similar context, but entirely
 different meaning, we undermine this important distinction and create more
 confusion.

 See also:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:The_Free_Encyclopedia

 -- Tobias


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[Wikimedia-l] Where to redirect m.wikipedia.org?

[Yuri Astrakhan]

http://m.wikipedia.org used to be a hard-coded redirect to English
en.m.wikipedia.org, except for the users in the Zero program. We now have
an ability to have complex redirection for that domain. How do you think
m.wikipedia.org should behave?

We could redirect m. to ...
* the current www.wikipedia.org, which seems to work pretty well on the
smaller device screens
* send users to the main page of the user's default language - based on the
browser settings (Accept-Language header) - and later possibly even based
on user's own language prefernces
* ...

Obviously it should be similar for other projects like wikinews, etc.

I am not a big fan of building a full blown page at the m. URL, as that
would involve much more work without a clear benefit - there are already
www and main pages available, why build another one.

Thanks!
--Yuri
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanks for all the fish!

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Milos, lets call it an extended sabbatical instead! You never know when you
might come back, and you are always welcome :)


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:

 On 06/07/2013 12:32 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
  I thought to leave it quietly, with just a
  bit more than a few words to stewards and Wikimedia Serbia, but after
  the first question why I am leaving, I realized that I actually owe to
  many of you the explanation for leaving the movement after almost 10
  years.

 « Il est impossible d’aimer une seconde fois ce qu’on a véritablement
 cessé d’aimer. »
 — François de La Rochefoucauld

 Thank you, Milos, for ten years of dedication.  Like all others who
 drift away to new interests, you leave behind a legacy that leaves us
 all richer than when you joined.

 -- Marc


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