Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Diff – a blog by and for the Wikimedia volunteer community

[Andy Mabbett]

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 12:23, Quim Gil  wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:54 PM Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
>
> > > > > > What consultation was carried out with contributors, and the
> > > > > > wider the Wikimedia community, to inform this change?
> >
> > Although you quoted it, you seem to have overlooked this question.
>
>
> I aimed to address this question with this answer:
>
> > When we announced Next steps for Wikimedia Space [1] we said that the
> Space blog
> > would continue in a new home

> > [1] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/next-steps-on-wikimedia-space/3184
>
> This is when we informed about this plan (February 18), also on this list.

Yes; you made an announcement. I asked about *consultation*.

> We didn't consult any further

In future, please consult - meaningfully - before making such
significant changes.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Diff – a blog by and for the Wikimedia volunteer community

[Quim Gil]

Hi,

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:54 PM Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> > > > > What consultation was carried out with contributors, and the
> > > > > wider the Wikimedia community, to inform this change?
>
> Although you quoted it, you seem to have overlooked this question.


I aimed to address this question with this answer:

> When we announced Next steps for Wikimedia Space [1] we said that the
Space blog
> would continue in a new home, and this is exactly what we have done.
(...)
> [1] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/next-steps-on-wikimedia-space/3184

This is when we informed about this plan (February 18), also on this list.
The feedback we received was about the Wikimedia Space announcement in
general and there was some discussion about the Discuss part, but nothing
in a way or another about the blog. We didn't consult any further, and we
focused on proceeding with the migration.

Offering the previous blog archives as part of the new blog is logical. The
Space Blog aimed to be a continuation of the Wikimedia Blog, but it was a
prototype. Diff aims to be a continuation of the Wikimedia Blog and the
Space blog, and it is a project officially supported, in production
servers. Hence the consolidation of community news archives.

-- 
Quim Gil (he/him)
Senior Manager of Community Relations @ Wikimedia Foundation
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil-WMF
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Diff – a blog by and for the Wikimedia volunteer community

[Andy Mabbett]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 23:42, Quim Gil  wrote:

> When we announced Next steps for Wikimedia Space [1] we said that the Space
> blog would continue in a new home, and this is exactly what we have done.

It is not exactly what you have done, because you have merged it with
(content from) another blog or blogs.

> In order to identify the posts coming from the
> Wikimedia Blog, the Wikimedia Foundation site or Space, we have attached a
> string of text. Andy, this is why your now imported blog post from 2017 has
> that extra text.

If the aim is to "identify the posts coming from the Wikimedia Blog",
then text saying "This is an archived post from blog.wikimedia.org"
will suffice.

> > > > What consultation was carried out with contributors, and the
> > > > wider the Wikimedia community, to inform this change?

Although you quoted it, you seem to have overlooked this question.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Diff – a blog by and for the Wikimedia volunteer community

[Quim Gil]

Hi,

Thanks Lodewijk, you covered the main points.

When we announced Next steps for Wikimedia Space [1] we said that the Space
blog would continue in a new home, and this is exactly what we have done.
Last year the Space blog received community submissions regularly, and the
Comms team always receives requests for publication of community news. We
launched Diff yesterday, and today we have already a couple of
ongoing drafts being written by volunteers who came by their own foot.
There is a clear need for a community news channel in our movement and we
are trying to address this need.

Does the Diff editorial team miss volunteers today? Absolutely! Do you need
to convince anyone about the need to fill that team with volunteers, or
even about them taking over? Absolutely not. Instead, you can help
convincing volunteers to get involved. Or you can get involved yourselves.
We also welcome proposals to connect existing community publications with
Diff, another way to participate.

I hope someone will appreciate the fact that we have launched Diff
including three separate archives of community news, now in one place. That
is 3,235 posts, importing and merging the archives wasn't simple, and yes
there are still some bugs. In order to identify the posts coming from the
Wikimedia Blog, the Wikimedia Foundation site or Space, we have attached a
string of text. Andy, this is why your now imported blog post from 2017 has
that extra text. Such text can be easily changed in all archived posts if
we agree on a better text. Let's discuss such details on the project Talk
page. [2]

Andy, thank you for your detailed feedback as a blog post author. Thank you
for reporting some bugs that we will (hopefully) fix, and thank you for
identifying some problems that annoy you as an author. We want happy
authors, not annoyed authors, and we can work with them to resolve any
problems about their published posts and about their upcoming ones too. You
can share the details on the project talk page, you can file bugs in
Phabricator [3] or you can send us an email to d...@wikimedia.org. The same
channels can be used to propose improvements in categories, the privacy
policy or anything else.

[1] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/next-steps-on-wikimedia-space/3184
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Diff_(blog)
[3] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/diff-blog/

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 7:23 AM effe iets anders 
wrote:

> The editorial team has been the status quo for years. I'd like to see it
> expanded over time with volunteers, but at this point it would be unfair to
> look down at this development for that reason.
>
> To keep things constructive here: are there specific guidelines or
> procedures that you would like to see changed? What is the kind of
> volunteer/non-WMF person that you would like to see added to the team? (not
> expecting you to call names, but you may be able to come up with broad
> categories)
>
> If you have such big problems with the privacy policy, could you create a
> separate thread about that and be specific about what exactly you find
> concerning, and why? I don't think an announcement thread is the best place
> to discuss those concerns - if these are really significant problems, it
> warrants a separate thread.
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 3:27 PM Yair Rand  wrote:
>
> > I am concerned.
> >
> > Although it is purported to be "by and for the Wikimedia volunteer
> > community", the blog is clearly run by the WMF, the editorial team is
> made
> > up of WMF staff, the WMF handles moderating, the guidelines were written
> by
> > the WMF, the blog was created by the WMF without community consultation
> or
> > input, and the structure and category system are clearly WMF-oriented.
> > Also, it's based on WordPress, yet again, and with a very
> > problematic privacy policy which probably won't be acceptable to many in
> > the community.
> >
> > This is not a positive development, in my opinion.
> >
> > -- Yair Rand
> >
> > ‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 15 ביולי 2020 ב-15:31 מאת ‪Andy Mabbett‬‏ <‪
> > a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk‬‏>:‬
> >
> > > On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 18:50, Chris Koerner 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Diff builds on lessons and  experiences from  the
> > > > Wikimedia Blog, the Wikimedia Foundation News, and Wikimedia Space;
> > > > previous posts from these channels are archived on Diff.
> > >
> > > Based on my involvement with the Blog, I've identified some issues...
> > >
> > > At the request of the WMF, in 2017 I wrote a blog post, which was
> > > published - after WMF's editorial approval - at:
> > >
> > >https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
> > >
> > > an independently-archived copy may be found at:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
> > >
> > > This has now been republished at:
> > >
> > >https://diff.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
> > >
> > > to which 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Diff – a blog by and for the Wikimedia volunteer community

[effe iets anders]

The editorial team has been the status quo for years. I'd like to see it
expanded over time with volunteers, but at this point it would be unfair to
look down at this development for that reason.

To keep things constructive here: are there specific guidelines or
procedures that you would like to see changed? What is the kind of
volunteer/non-WMF person that you would like to see added to the team? (not
expecting you to call names, but you may be able to come up with broad
categories)

If you have such big problems with the privacy policy, could you create a
separate thread about that and be specific about what exactly you find
concerning, and why? I don't think an announcement thread is the best place
to discuss those concerns - if these are really significant problems, it
warrants a separate thread.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 3:27 PM Yair Rand  wrote:

> I am concerned.
>
> Although it is purported to be "by and for the Wikimedia volunteer
> community", the blog is clearly run by the WMF, the editorial team is made
> up of WMF staff, the WMF handles moderating, the guidelines were written by
> the WMF, the blog was created by the WMF without community consultation or
> input, and the structure and category system are clearly WMF-oriented.
> Also, it's based on WordPress, yet again, and with a very
> problematic privacy policy which probably won't be acceptable to many in
> the community.
>
> This is not a positive development, in my opinion.
>
> -- Yair Rand
>
> ‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 15 ביולי 2020 ב-15:31 מאת ‪Andy Mabbett‬‏ <‪
> a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk‬‏>:‬
>
> > On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 18:50, Chris Koerner 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Diff builds on lessons and  experiences from  the
> > > Wikimedia Blog, the Wikimedia Foundation News, and Wikimedia Space;
> > > previous posts from these channels are archived on Diff.
> >
> > Based on my involvement with the Blog, I've identified some issues...
> >
> > At the request of the WMF, in 2017 I wrote a blog post, which was
> > published - after WMF's editorial approval - at:
> >
> >https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
> >
> > an independently-archived copy may be found at:
> >
> >
> >
> https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
> >
> > This has now been republished at:
> >
> >https://diff.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
> >
> > to which the original URL has now been redirected.
> >
> >
> > The new version of the article has  footer, saying:
> >
> >Archive notice: This is an archived post from blog.wikimedia.org, and
> >as such was written under a different editorial standard than Diff.
> >
> > I am concerned that this unexplained comment may not reflect well on
> > me, as the named author.
> >
> >
> > The new version of my author profile page:
> >
> >https://diff.wikimedia.org/author/cap-andy-mabbet/
> >
> > is missing the thumbnail image for the blog post; compare with the
> > archived version:
> >
> >
> >
> https://web.archive.org/web/20191218122440/https://blog.wikimedia.org/author/andy-mabbet/
> >
> > (the spelling error in the URL has carried over from the original).
> >
> > > The channel
> > > is primarily intended for community-authored posts, in which
> > > volunteers can share their stories, learnings, and ideas with each
> > > other.
> >
> > I didn't write the above post simply to share the story with other
> > volunteers; it was written - I again emphasise, at the WMF's request -
> >  for a global audience, and presented to the press as such, as part of
> > a joint publicity initiative with the European Space Agency.
> >
> > > content on Diff can be written and
> > > translated into languages to reach a wide audience.
> >
> > My original post - as can be seen from the banner in the version at
> > the Internet Archive - was kindly translated into Italian (apt, as the
> > subject was an Italian Astronaut) and French. The banner containing
> > the links to those translations is missing from the "Diff" copy.
> >
> > The original URLs of the italian and French versions:
> >
> >
> >
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/it/2017/11/29/wikipedia-lascia-il-pianeta-terra
> >
> >
> >
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/fr/2017/12/01/wikipedia-quitte-la-planete-terre
> >
> > now redirect, respectively, to:
> >
> >
> >
> https://diff.wikimedia.org/it/2017/11/29/wikipedia-lascia-il-pianeta-terra
> >
> >
> >
> https://diff.wikimedia.org/fr/2017/12/01/wikipedia-quitte-la-planete-terre
> >
> > each of which are returning a 404 error.
> >
> > Several links to the original Italian URL, from the Italian-language
> > Wikipedia, including those in encyclopedia articles, and two links to
> > the original French URL on the French-language Wikipedia, are now
> > broken. Obviously this also applies to any external sites that link to
> > them, too.
> >
> > > Still curious to learn more?
> >
> > Yes: What consultation was carried out with contributors, and the
> > wider the 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Diff – a blog by and for the Wikimedia volunteer community

[Yair Rand]

I am concerned.

Although it is purported to be "by and for the Wikimedia volunteer
community", the blog is clearly run by the WMF, the editorial team is made
up of WMF staff, the WMF handles moderating, the guidelines were written by
the WMF, the blog was created by the WMF without community consultation or
input, and the structure and category system are clearly WMF-oriented.
Also, it's based on WordPress, yet again, and with a very
problematic privacy policy which probably won't be acceptable to many in
the community.

This is not a positive development, in my opinion.

-- Yair Rand

‫בתאריך יום ד׳, 15 ביולי 2020 ב-15:31 מאת ‪Andy Mabbett‬‏ <‪
a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk‬‏>:‬

> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 18:50, Chris Koerner 
> wrote:
>
> > Diff builds on lessons and  experiences from  the
> > Wikimedia Blog, the Wikimedia Foundation News, and Wikimedia Space;
> > previous posts from these channels are archived on Diff.
>
> Based on my involvement with the Blog, I've identified some issues...
>
> At the request of the WMF, in 2017 I wrote a blog post, which was
> published - after WMF's editorial approval - at:
>
>https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
>
> an independently-archived copy may be found at:
>
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
>
> This has now been republished at:
>
>https://diff.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/
>
> to which the original URL has now been redirected.
>
>
> The new version of the article has  footer, saying:
>
>Archive notice: This is an archived post from blog.wikimedia.org, and
>as such was written under a different editorial standard than Diff.
>
> I am concerned that this unexplained comment may not reflect well on
> me, as the named author.
>
>
> The new version of my author profile page:
>
>https://diff.wikimedia.org/author/cap-andy-mabbet/
>
> is missing the thumbnail image for the blog post; compare with the
> archived version:
>
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20191218122440/https://blog.wikimedia.org/author/andy-mabbet/
>
> (the spelling error in the URL has carried over from the original).
>
> > The channel
> > is primarily intended for community-authored posts, in which
> > volunteers can share their stories, learnings, and ideas with each
> > other.
>
> I didn't write the above post simply to share the story with other
> volunteers; it was written - I again emphasise, at the WMF's request -
>  for a global audience, and presented to the press as such, as part of
> a joint publicity initiative with the European Space Agency.
>
> > content on Diff can be written and
> > translated into languages to reach a wide audience.
>
> My original post - as can be seen from the banner in the version at
> the Internet Archive - was kindly translated into Italian (apt, as the
> subject was an Italian Astronaut) and French. The banner containing
> the links to those translations is missing from the "Diff" copy.
>
> The original URLs of the italian and French versions:
>
>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/it/2017/11/29/wikipedia-lascia-il-pianeta-terra
>
>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/fr/2017/12/01/wikipedia-quitte-la-planete-terre
>
> now redirect, respectively, to:
>
>
> https://diff.wikimedia.org/it/2017/11/29/wikipedia-lascia-il-pianeta-terra
>
>
> https://diff.wikimedia.org/fr/2017/12/01/wikipedia-quitte-la-planete-terre
>
> each of which are returning a 404 error.
>
> Several links to the original Italian URL, from the Italian-language
> Wikipedia, including those in encyclopedia articles, and two links to
> the original French URL on the French-language Wikipedia, are now
> broken. Obviously this also applies to any external sites that link to
> them, too.
>
> > Still curious to learn more?
>
> Yes: What consultation was carried out with contributors, and the
> wider the Wikimedia community, to inform this change?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Diff – a blog by and for the Wikimedia volunteer community

[Andy Mabbett]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 18:50, Chris Koerner  wrote:

> Diff builds on lessons and  experiences from  the
> Wikimedia Blog, the Wikimedia Foundation News, and Wikimedia Space;
> previous posts from these channels are archived on Diff.

Based on my involvement with the Blog, I've identified some issues...

At the request of the WMF, in 2017 I wrote a blog post, which was
published - after WMF's editorial approval - at:

   https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/

an independently-archived copy may be found at:

  
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/

This has now been republished at:

   https://diff.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/

to which the original URL has now been redirected.


The new version of the article has  footer, saying:

   Archive notice: This is an archived post from blog.wikimedia.org, and
   as such was written under a different editorial standard than Diff.

I am concerned that this unexplained comment may not reflect well on
me, as the named author.


The new version of my author profile page:

   https://diff.wikimedia.org/author/cap-andy-mabbet/

is missing the thumbnail image for the blog post; compare with the
archived version:

   
https://web.archive.org/web/20191218122440/https://blog.wikimedia.org/author/andy-mabbet/

(the spelling error in the URL has carried over from the original).

> The channel
> is primarily intended for community-authored posts, in which
> volunteers can share their stories, learnings, and ideas with each
> other.

I didn't write the above post simply to share the story with other
volunteers; it was written - I again emphasise, at the WMF's request -
 for a global audience, and presented to the press as such, as part of
a joint publicity initiative with the European Space Agency.

> content on Diff can be written and
> translated into languages to reach a wide audience.

My original post - as can be seen from the banner in the version at
the Internet Archive - was kindly translated into Italian (apt, as the
subject was an Italian Astronaut) and French. The banner containing
the links to those translations is missing from the "Diff" copy.

The original URLs of the italian and French versions:

   https://blog.wikimedia.org/it/2017/11/29/wikipedia-lascia-il-pianeta-terra

   https://blog.wikimedia.org/fr/2017/12/01/wikipedia-quitte-la-planete-terre

now redirect, respectively, to:

   https://diff.wikimedia.org/it/2017/11/29/wikipedia-lascia-il-pianeta-terra

   https://diff.wikimedia.org/fr/2017/12/01/wikipedia-quitte-la-planete-terre

each of which are returning a 404 error.

Several links to the original Italian URL, from the Italian-language
Wikipedia, including those in encyclopedia articles, and two links to
the original French URL on the French-language Wikipedia, are now
broken. Obviously this also applies to any external sites that link to
them, too.

> Still curious to learn more?

Yes: What consultation was carried out with contributors, and the
wider the Wikimedia community, to inform this change?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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[Wikimedia-l] Introducing Diff – a blog by and for the Wikimedia volunteer community

[Chris Koerner]

Hello,

Today the Wikimedia Foundation would like to introduce a new community
blog. It's called "Diff" (diff.wikimedia.org) and is a blog by – and
for – the Wikimedia volunteer community to connect and share
learnings, stories, and ideas from across our movement. We'd like to
encourage you to learn more about Diff and how it can help you in
sharing and learning from your fellow Wikimedians.

Everyone is invited to contribute!

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2020/07/14/welcome-to-diff-a-community-blog-for-the-wikimedia-movement/

The name “Diff” is in reference to the wiki interface that displays
the difference between one version and another of a Wikipedia page. It
also reflects the “difference” our communities and movement make in
the world every day.

For some background, Diff builds on lessons and  experiences from  the
Wikimedia Blog, the Wikimedia Foundation News, and Wikimedia Space;
previous posts from these channels are archived on Diff. The channel
is primarily intended for community-authored posts, in which
volunteers can share their stories, learnings, and ideas with each
other.

Diff offers a simple and accessible editorial process, moderated by
Foundation communications staff and open to volunteers, to encourage
participation from all — especially emerging and under-represented
communities. Additionally, content on Diff can be written and
translated into languages to reach a wide audience. Diff also has a
code of conduct and comments can be flagged and moderated.

Still curious to learn more?

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2020/07/14/welcome-to-diff-a-community-blog-for-the-wikimedia-movement/

Yours,
Chris Koerner (he/him)
Community Relations Specialist
Wikimedia Foundation

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