Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Rodrigo Padula]

I am very disappointed with this decision and announcement.

Surely anyone who has read this notice must be thinking that Brazil is at war, 
in wreckage. But that is not true.

Brazil has never produced so much positive impact in our movement as it has 
now. Both groups have extensively created many very innovative initiatives, 
making Brazil one of the leading countries among Wikimedia movement:

GLAM reports
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:This_Month_in_GLAM_Brazil_reports  

Innovative GLAM partnerships and projects
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/April_2017/Contents/Brazil_report
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/November_2017/Contents/Brazil_report
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/February_2018/Contents/Brazil_report

We spread the wikimedia movement in Brazil through many television 
participations https://youtu.be/9YOIXPwCqw4?t=46m32s (spreading the Wikipedia 
and fundraising campaigns), Radio interviews and many publications in Brazilian 
newspapers, portals and blogs. We organized the Brazilian and International 
Wikipedia Scientific Conferences, generating lot of new academic papers 
regarding the wikimedia movement and improving our relation with the academic 
community.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Congresso_Cient%C3%ADfico_Brasileiro_da_Wikip%C3%A9dia
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:IWSC

Such misleading narrative about a “war” has been exaggerated in order to prove 
to WMF it was a bad call to allow more than one user group in the same region. 
But it isn’t. Many countries have more than one group. In fact, a fairly amount 
of healthy competition may lead to more initiatives. Such artificial narrative 
ended up hurting both sides.

This, of course, doesn’t mean there hasn’t been mistakes and conflicts among 
specific members. For sure some conflicts were very unproductive and made us 
spend energy in unfruitful discussions. But most members from both groups were 
genuinely interested in a peaceful and constructive relationship, being 
critical of other members’ refusal to mediation, dialogue and insistence on 
extended personal conflicts.

I have tried informal mediation and requested WMF formal mediation several 
times. But no formal support was given, just disciplinary measures. This may be 
something to learn for the future.  

We are moving forward with the professionalization and incorporation of our 
user group since 2016, in a very slow process, with very few answers received 
from AffCom during this process.

Recent timeline of interactions with AffCom:
19/12/2016 We sent a message to AffCom, regarding our affiliation status 
update, because we were working to incorporate our user group as requested by 
the Grants team.

07/01/2017 We received an answer from Carlos Colina requesting more information 
and our bylaws (originally in portuguese since he speaks portuguese for a first 
evaluation)

02/04/2017 We requested a conversation with members of the User Group Wikimedia 
Brazil durgin WMCON (they refused to talk), so during Wikimedia Conference I 
had a quick conversation with Kirill, about the bylaws sent to Carlos Colina 
and the general situation in Brazil.

03/05/2017 We received a new message from Aff requesting the translated by laws

 06/2017 I requested mediation from AffCom/Iberocoop to have a conversation 
between both groups during Iberoconf in Argentina as informed in our comments 
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Iberocoop:Iberoconf_2017/Preguntas_y_necesidades),
 User Group Wikimedia Brasil refused to talk, so we had a conversation only 
with Galileo and Carlos Colina from AffCom and we never received any feedback 
from this conversation.

26/10/2017 We received a message informing that they received the translated 
bylaws for evaluation, no comments about conflicts or problem between the user 
groups were cited.

08/04/2018 We received the revocation notice of our affiliation status


I deeply believe in the Wikimedia movement. We have started and signed several 
partnerships and projects which be developed during the following years. So, 
with or without recognition, support or grants from the Foundation, we will 
continue to work, to advocate for open knowledge and to fix the current 
situation in Brazil.

We will move on. It will be more difficult and slow, but we will always move 
forward.

Rodrigo Padula
Coordenador de Projetos
Wiki Educação Brasil
http://www.wikibrasil.org
21 99326-0558




 On Sun, 08 Apr 2018 15:19:55 -0300 Kirill Lokshin 
 wrote  

Hello everyone,

Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
are identi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Kirill Lokshin]

Hi Rodrigo,

Eligibility for grants is determined by the Wikimedia Foundation's
community resources department, rather than by the Affiliations Committee.
I imagine that the Wikimedia Foundation may choose to take our decision
into account when evaluating future grant proposals, but it's not something
that we have any authority to impose.

Regards,
Kirill

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 8:07 AM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
> year."
>
> And grant requests? I am not privy to the conflict details, but it seems to
> be generated by the claim of lack of legitimacy and misuse of money, is
> that correct? So should not also individual grant requests for this primary
> contacts be blocked?
>
> Agreeing with Ilario, but would be nice to see the "whys" they came to
> this. Without this deep look, the "Brazil, restart again" will act over and
> over again - this is not the first time, and will not be the last, until
> some stakeholders stop relieving themselves of responsibility, admit the
> mistakes and take a stand to fix the problem, some of it, could be created
> not by locals... Finished this analyses and actions made Mardetanha
> proposal will be a consequence, writing now as it is now, I do not see how
> could be beneficial.
>
>
> x0x0
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 03:54, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
>
> > Hi Kirill
> > It makes sense to explain a little bit about the conflict management and
> > the position of both sides to define why both groups have been
> > derecognized.
> >
> > At the opposite this decision will give the feeling that, to attack a
> local
> > Group, it will be sufficient to create another local Group and to be
> > recognized and to open a conflict and to drive all parties to unresolute
> it
> > to reach the primary and original goal.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 20:20 Kirill Lokshin, 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> > > organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> > > group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the
> Wikimedia
> > > mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> > > affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements,
> > which
> > > are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic
> organization,
> > > or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia
> User
> > > Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging
> in
> > > activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations
> or
> > > Wikimedia projects.
> > >
> > > As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> > > Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education
> Brazil
> > —
> > > have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has
> resulted
> > > in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> > > activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the
> conflict
> > > have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> > > withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
> > >
> > > Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil
> > and
> > > Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and
> the
> > > Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> > > terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as
> practicable.
> > > Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts
> for
> > > these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts
> for
> > > any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
> > year.
> > >
> > > The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> > > unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> > > Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> > > structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> > > participants and stakeholders in the country.
> > >
> > > Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> > > Affiliations Committee.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Kirill Lokshin
> > > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > __

Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton]

"Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
any user group application or existing user group for a period of one year."

And grant requests? I am not privy to the conflict details, but it seems to
be generated by the claim of lack of legitimacy and misuse of money, is
that correct? So should not also individual grant requests for this primary
contacts be blocked?

Agreeing with Ilario, but would be nice to see the "whys" they came to
this. Without this deep look, the "Brazil, restart again" will act over and
over again - this is not the first time, and will not be the last, until
some stakeholders stop relieving themselves of responsibility, admit the
mistakes and take a stand to fix the problem, some of it, could be created
not by locals... Finished this analyses and actions made Mardetanha
proposal will be a consequence, writing now as it is now, I do not see how
could be beneficial.


x0x0

On 9 April 2018 at 03:54, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> Hi Kirill
> It makes sense to explain a little bit about the conflict management and
> the position of both sides to define why both groups have been
> derecognized.
>
> At the opposite this decision will give the feeling that, to attack a local
> Group, it will be sufficient to create another local Group and to be
> recognized and to open a conflict and to drive all parties to unresolute it
> to reach the primary and original goal.
>
> Kind regards
>
> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 20:20 Kirill Lokshin, 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> > organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> > group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
> > mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> > affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements,
> which
> > are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
> > or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
> > Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
> > activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
> > Wikimedia projects.
> >
> > As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> > Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil
> —
> > have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
> > in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> > activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
> > have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> > withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
> >
> > Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil
> and
> > Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
> > Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> > terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
> > Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
> > these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
> > any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
> year.
> >
> > The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> > unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> > Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> > structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> > participants and stakeholders in the country.
> >
> > Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> > Affiliations Committee.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
+55 11 979 718 884
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Ilario Valdelli]

Hi Kirill
It makes sense to explain a little bit about the conflict management and
the position of both sides to define why both groups have been
derecognized.

At the opposite this decision will give the feeling that, to attack a local
Group, it will be sufficient to create another local Group and to be
recognized and to open a conflict and to drive all parties to unresolute it
to reach the primary and original goal.

Kind regards

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018, 20:20 Kirill Lokshin,  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
> mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
> are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
> or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
> Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
> activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
> Wikimedia projects.
>
> As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
> have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
> in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
> have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
>
> Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
> Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
> Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
> Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one year.
>
> The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> participants and stakeholders in the country.
>
> Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> Affiliations Committee.
>
> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Isaac Olatunde]

Extremely sad news. I can't comment on the fairness but it does seem like
the best decision has been taken.


Regards,

Isaac

On Apr 8, 2018 9:52 PM, "Lucas Teles"  wrote:

> That’s very unexpected. I actually have been trying to talk with WMF plenty
> of times and waiting and waiting for a word from you. Though you probably
> received lots of emails from me and others, I don’t think I have a single
> email from you guys about this in my inbox
>
> I have literally implored you to provide me and answer for a few cases
> opened has been a while in order to have any instruction or advice on how
> to act in many situations. But that never came.
>
> This is probably the first time I hear from you, Kirill, and I respectfully
> disagree that one can consider that you did well on it. You just let it all
> happen and watched this escalate without any help. We were working on our
> mistakes, we were building our code of conduct, accepted mediation with
> Millos and others, but the feeling is that we were totally alone on that.
> Sadly, your actions were always directed to both groups as if you were
> avoiding to take any side or decision, like you are doing now, taking a
> general action and not addressing any issue specifically.
>
> I hope this change is for the best, but also hope that you can recognize
> your own mistakes here as others from WMF did. Just like I don’t think we
> did well every single moment and try to learn from it, you can’t really
> believe that you did a good job here. If you do (and that is the impression
> we have from your message), that is worrying. Then again, I hear from you,
> after so much time of silence and what I hear is punishment. You can’t
> probably think that you are being any educational on the matter. Sorry if
> there is any harsh word above, but that is sincerely unintentional.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> Teles
>
>
> Em dom, 8 de abr de 2018 às 16:32, Vi to 
> escreveu:
>
> > Sad outcome though fair, reasonable and expected.
> > I hope some new group will arise from these ruins.
> >
> > Vito
> >
> > 2018-04-08 20:19 GMT+02:00 Kirill Lokshin :
> >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> > > organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> > > group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the
> Wikimedia
> > > mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> > > affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements,
> > which
> > > are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic
> organization,
> > > or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia
> User
> > > Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging
> in
> > > activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations
> or
> > > Wikimedia projects.
> > >
> > > As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> > > Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education
> Brazil
> > —
> > > have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has
> resulted
> > > in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> > > activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the
> conflict
> > > have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> > > withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
> > >
> > > Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil
> > and
> > > Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and
> the
> > > Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> > > terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as
> practicable.
> > > Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts
> for
> > > these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts
> for
> > > any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
> > year.
> > >
> > > The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> > > unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> > > Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> > > structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> > > participants and stakeholders in the country.
> > >
> > > Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> > > Affiliations Committee.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Kirill Lokshin
> > > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > _

Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Lodewijk]

Hi Kirill,

Could you clarify what would be a path forward from this situation? For
example, would you encourage someone to set up a new application for a user
group in Brazil, if they have a good proposal (and/or proven commitment)
for how to manage the collaboration with the whole Brazilian community?

I doubt the intention of AffCom is to leave the situation in Brazil to
remain broken indefinitely.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Kirill Lokshin 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
> mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
> are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
> or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
> Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
> activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
> Wikimedia projects.
>
> As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
> have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
> in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
> have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
>
> Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
> Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
> Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
> Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one year.
>
> The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> participants and stakeholders in the country.
>
> Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> Affiliations Committee.
>
> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Vi to]

Given Teles' insight I must admit *I was wrong* in using the adjective
"fair", not so much right with "reasonable", while I expected something
like this. My apologies.

I may have an incomplete view of the situation but parties didn't deserve
the same treatment.

Vito

2018-04-08 21:32 GMT+02:00 Vi to :

> Sad outcome though fair, reasonable and expected.
> I hope some new group will arise from these ruins.
>
> Vito
>
> 2018-04-08 20:19 GMT+02:00 Kirill Lokshin :
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
>> organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
>> group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
>> mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
>> affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
>> are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
>> or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
>> Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
>> activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
>> Wikimedia projects.
>>
>> As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
>> Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
>> have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
>> in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
>> activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
>> have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
>> withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
>>
>> Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
>> Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
>> Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
>> terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
>> Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
>> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
>> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
>> year.
>>
>> The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
>> unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
>> Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
>> structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
>> participants and stakeholders in the country.
>>
>> Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
>> Affiliations Committee.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kirill Lokshin
>> Chair, Affiliations Committee
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Mardetanha]

I wonder if we could turn this to one learning pattern, from what went
wrong at first place and what solution you propose to solve it. I think it
would help a lot of projects if we could learn from each other's mistake.

Mardetanha

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 1:22 AM, Lucas Teles  wrote:

> That’s very unexpected. I actually have been trying to talk with WMF plenty
> of times and waiting and waiting for a word from you. Though you probably
> received lots of emails from me and others, I don’t think I have a single
> email from you guys about this in my inbox
>
> I have literally implored you to provide me and answer for a few cases
> opened has been a while in order to have any instruction or advice on how
> to act in many situations. But that never came.
>
> This is probably the first time I hear from you, Kirill, and I respectfully
> disagree that one can consider that you did well on it. You just let it all
> happen and watched this escalate without any help. We were working on our
> mistakes, we were building our code of conduct, accepted mediation with
> Millos and others, but the feeling is that we were totally alone on that.
> Sadly, your actions were always directed to both groups as if you were
> avoiding to take any side or decision, like you are doing now, taking a
> general action and not addressing any issue specifically.
>
> I hope this change is for the best, but also hope that you can recognize
> your own mistakes here as others from WMF did. Just like I don’t think we
> did well every single moment and try to learn from it, you can’t really
> believe that you did a good job here. If you do (and that is the impression
> we have from your message), that is worrying. Then again, I hear from you,
> after so much time of silence and what I hear is punishment. You can’t
> probably think that you are being any educational on the matter. Sorry if
> there is any harsh word above, but that is sincerely unintentional.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> Teles
>
>
> Em dom, 8 de abr de 2018 às 16:32, Vi to 
> escreveu:
>
> > Sad outcome though fair, reasonable and expected.
> > I hope some new group will arise from these ruins.
> >
> > Vito
> >
> > 2018-04-08 20:19 GMT+02:00 Kirill Lokshin :
> >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> > > organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> > > group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the
> Wikimedia
> > > mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> > > affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements,
> > which
> > > are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic
> organization,
> > > or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia
> User
> > > Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging
> in
> > > activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations
> or
> > > Wikimedia projects.
> > >
> > > As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> > > Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education
> Brazil
> > —
> > > have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has
> resulted
> > > in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> > > activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the
> conflict
> > > have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> > > withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
> > >
> > > Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil
> > and
> > > Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and
> the
> > > Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> > > terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as
> practicable.
> > > Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts
> for
> > > these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts
> for
> > > any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
> > year.
> > >
> > > The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> > > unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> > > Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> > > structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> > > participants and stakeholders in the country.
> > >
> > > Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> > > Affiliations Committee.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Kirill Lokshin
> > > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.or

Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Lucas Teles]

That’s very unexpected. I actually have been trying to talk with WMF plenty
of times and waiting and waiting for a word from you. Though you probably
received lots of emails from me and others, I don’t think I have a single
email from you guys about this in my inbox

I have literally implored you to provide me and answer for a few cases
opened has been a while in order to have any instruction or advice on how
to act in many situations. But that never came.

This is probably the first time I hear from you, Kirill, and I respectfully
disagree that one can consider that you did well on it. You just let it all
happen and watched this escalate without any help. We were working on our
mistakes, we were building our code of conduct, accepted mediation with
Millos and others, but the feeling is that we were totally alone on that.
Sadly, your actions were always directed to both groups as if you were
avoiding to take any side or decision, like you are doing now, taking a
general action and not addressing any issue specifically.

I hope this change is for the best, but also hope that you can recognize
your own mistakes here as others from WMF did. Just like I don’t think we
did well every single moment and try to learn from it, you can’t really
believe that you did a good job here. If you do (and that is the impression
we have from your message), that is worrying. Then again, I hear from you,
after so much time of silence and what I hear is punishment. You can’t
probably think that you are being any educational on the matter. Sorry if
there is any harsh word above, but that is sincerely unintentional.

Have a good day.

Teles


Em dom, 8 de abr de 2018 às 16:32, Vi to  escreveu:

> Sad outcome though fair, reasonable and expected.
> I hope some new group will arise from these ruins.
>
> Vito
>
> 2018-04-08 20:19 GMT+02:00 Kirill Lokshin :
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> > organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> > group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
> > mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> > affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements,
> which
> > are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
> > or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
> > Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
> > activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
> > Wikimedia projects.
> >
> > As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> > Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil
> —
> > have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
> > in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> > activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
> > have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> > withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
> >
> > Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil
> and
> > Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
> > Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> > terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
> > Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
> > these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
> > any user group application or existing user group for a period of one
> year.
> >
> > The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> > unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> > Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> > structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> > participants and stakeholders in the country.
> >
> > Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> > Affiliations Committee.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Vi to]

Sad outcome though fair, reasonable and expected.
I hope some new group will arise from these ruins.

Vito

2018-04-08 20:19 GMT+02:00 Kirill Lokshin :

> Hello everyone,
>
> Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
> organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
> group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
> mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
> affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
> are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
> or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
> Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
> activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
> Wikimedia projects.
>
> As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
> Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
> have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
> in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
> activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
> have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
> withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.
>
> Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
> Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
> Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
> terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
> Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
> these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
> any user group application or existing user group for a period of one year.
>
> The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
> unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
> Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
> structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
> participants and stakeholders in the country.
>
> Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
> Affiliations Committee.
>
> Regards,
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
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https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

[Wikimedia-l] De-recognition of Wikimedia user groups in Brazil

[Kirill Lokshin]

Hello everyone,

Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic
organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent
group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia
mission. To receive and maintain their status as recognized Wikimedia
affiliates, groups are required to comply with certain requirements, which
are identified in each group's individual chapter, thematic organization,
or user group agreement.  In particular, the terms of the Wikimedia User
Group Agreement and Code of Conduct prohibit user groups from engaging in
activity that poses significant risk to other Wikimedia organizations or
Wikimedia projects.

As many of you doubtlessly know, the two Wikimedia user groups based in
Brazil — Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and Wiki Education Brazil —
have been engaged in a severe and protracted conflict, which has resulted
in significant harm to past, ongoing, and planned Wikimedia movement
activities in Brazil.  As all reasonable attempts to resolve the conflict
have failed, the Affiliations Committee is left with no choice but to
withdraw the groups' recognition as Wikimedia affiliates.

Consequently, the recognition of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil and
Wiki Education Brazil as Wikimedia user groups has been revoked, and the
Wikimedia Foundation's legal department has been requested to formally
terminate their respective user group agreements as soon as practicable.
Further, the specific individuals who served as the primary contacts for
these user groups will be prohibited from serving as primary contacts for
any user group application or existing user group for a period of one year.

The Affiliations Committee recognizes that this is an unprecedented and
unfortunate development. However, we hope that this step will allow the
Wikimedia community in Brazil to work towards a new organizational
structure and model that will better serve the needs of movement
participants and stakeholders in the country.

Any questions regarding this matter should be addressed directly to the
Affiliations Committee.

Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,