Re: [Wikimedia-l] May 5: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#15)

2017-05-08 Thread Gabriel Thullen 
Yes, we need to promote Kiwix. We need to ensure that people with no
internet access can get Kiwix and that means that we do need to "clone
Wikipedia content".
It is quite expensive to download Kiwix because of the huge data charge
that it implies, and it also takes for ever with a poor connection. We tend
to forget that when we live in countries where we have 24H 7/7 unlimited
internet...

Best regards
Gabe

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We need to promote Kiwix - definitely, but should we promote Wikipedia
> zero? May be not, unless the issue of net neutrality is clearly addressed.
> We need to remember that some countries had to ban different zero services,
> as they clearly violated net neutrality and people were against them.
>
> Regards
> On May 8, 2017 1:23 PM, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:
>
> > In these cases the big advantage is the capacity to be cloned. A
> > governement can block an ip or a domain but it would be hard to block
> > internet.
> >
> > The good approach is to invite the web to host kiwix and zim files for
> > downloading. That would be easier than cloning Wikipedia content.
> >
> > However that approach will save readers but not writers.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Il 07 Mag 2017 23:36, "Gabriel Thullen"  ha
> scritto:
> >
> > > I agree with James that we need to encourage initiatives like Kiwix
> > > Wikipedia Zero. We need to be able to distribute Kiwix in countries
> that
> > > have blocked Wikipedia, because it is no big deal for a government to
> > block
> > > the Kiwix.org site as well, and phone operators providing Wikipedia
> Zero
> > > will have to obey government injunctions. Chances are that a block on
> > > kiwix.org will hardly be noticed by our community. Looks like the good
> > old
> > > sneakernet with USB flash drives is still a viable option...
> > >
> > > Gabe
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yup. It would be interesting to ponder if wiki app could channel
> > through
> > > > Tor by default - in the spirit of The Guardian project. Informing
> users
> > > > about Tor benefits has obvious disavantages related to the fact that
> > most
> > > > people will not be able to grasp it.
> > > >
> > > > Dariusz Jemielniak
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 9:26 PM, James Heilman 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The issues occurring in Turkey highlight that we may also need to
> > keep
> > > in
> > > > > mind:
> > > > >
> > > > > * Access
> > > > >
> > > > > over the next 15 years. Where access is not only potentially
> hindered
> > > by
> > > > > governments but also technical and monetary realities in various
> > > country
> > > > > and region. We of course have already worked and continue to do
> work
> > in
> > > > > this area with initiatives like Wikipedia Zero and Offline
> Wikipedia
> > /
> > > > > Kiwix.
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Katherine Maher <
> > kma...@wikimedia.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Summary: The report from cycle 1 discussion is online[1]. The
> > start
> > > of
> > > > > > cycle 2 is delayed until next week.*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your contributions! We have been hard at work
> > reading,
> > > > > > sorting, and summarizing more than 1,800 community member
> > statements,
> > > > > from
> > > > > > more than 100 community discussions from across five continents.
> > Each
> > > > of
> > > > > > these statements was a response to the question: "What do we want
> > to
> > > > > build
> > > > > > or achieve together over the next 15 years?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can find the full report on the major themes, and more
> details
> > > > about
> > > > > > them, in a summarized report on Meta-Wiki.[1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some common themes emerged from these conversations:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * Reliable, neutral, high-quality content
> > > > > > * Community health & support
> > > > > > * Internal & external collaboration
> > > > > > * Improved and new features
> > > > > > * Users, editors, & contributors
> > > > > > * Outreach, awareness, & promotion
> > > > > > * Innovation and adaptation
> > > > > > * Funding, staffing, and other organizational needs
> > > > > > * Support for emerging communities
> > > > > > * Advancing Wikipedia in education
> > > > > > * Movement values
> > > > > > * Sustainability & growth
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Each of these themes is described in more detail within the body
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > report,[1] and the full data spreadsheet from this analysis will
> be
> > > > > posted
> > > > > > soon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The movement strategy team has been working to group these themes
> > > > > together,
> > > > > > so that we have a smaller number of concepts to consider in the
> > next
> > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] May 5: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#15)

2017-05-08 Thread Bodhisattwa Mandal 
We need to promote Kiwix - definitely, but should we promote Wikipedia
zero? May be not, unless the issue of net neutrality is clearly addressed.
We need to remember that some countries had to ban different zero services,
as they clearly violated net neutrality and people were against them.

Regards
On May 8, 2017 1:23 PM, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:

> In these cases the big advantage is the capacity to be cloned. A
> governement can block an ip or a domain but it would be hard to block
> internet.
>
> The good approach is to invite the web to host kiwix and zim files for
> downloading. That would be easier than cloning Wikipedia content.
>
> However that approach will save readers but not writers.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Il 07 Mag 2017 23:36, "Gabriel Thullen"  ha scritto:
>
> > I agree with James that we need to encourage initiatives like Kiwix
> > Wikipedia Zero. We need to be able to distribute Kiwix in countries that
> > have blocked Wikipedia, because it is no big deal for a government to
> block
> > the Kiwix.org site as well, and phone operators providing Wikipedia Zero
> > will have to obey government injunctions. Chances are that a block on
> > kiwix.org will hardly be noticed by our community. Looks like the good
> old
> > sneakernet with USB flash drives is still a viable option...
> >
> > Gabe
> >
> > On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Yup. It would be interesting to ponder if wiki app could channel
> through
> > > Tor by default - in the spirit of The Guardian project. Informing users
> > > about Tor benefits has obvious disavantages related to the fact that
> most
> > > people will not be able to grasp it.
> > >
> > > Dariusz Jemielniak
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 9:26 PM, James Heilman 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The issues occurring in Turkey highlight that we may also need to
> keep
> > in
> > > > mind:
> > > >
> > > > * Access
> > > >
> > > > over the next 15 years. Where access is not only potentially hindered
> > by
> > > > governments but also technical and monetary realities in various
> > country
> > > > and region. We of course have already worked and continue to do work
> in
> > > > this area with initiatives like Wikipedia Zero and Offline Wikipedia
> /
> > > > Kiwix.
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Katherine Maher <
> kma...@wikimedia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > *Summary: The report from cycle 1 discussion is online[1]. The
> start
> > of
> > > > > cycle 2 is delayed until next week.*
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for your contributions! We have been hard at work
> reading,
> > > > > sorting, and summarizing more than 1,800 community member
> statements,
> > > > from
> > > > > more than 100 community discussions from across five continents.
> Each
> > > of
> > > > > these statements was a response to the question: "What do we want
> to
> > > > build
> > > > > or achieve together over the next 15 years?"
> > > > >
> > > > > You can find the full report on the major themes, and more details
> > > about
> > > > > them, in a summarized report on Meta-Wiki.[1]
> > > > >
> > > > > Some common themes emerged from these conversations:
> > > > >
> > > > > * Reliable, neutral, high-quality content
> > > > > * Community health & support
> > > > > * Internal & external collaboration
> > > > > * Improved and new features
> > > > > * Users, editors, & contributors
> > > > > * Outreach, awareness, & promotion
> > > > > * Innovation and adaptation
> > > > > * Funding, staffing, and other organizational needs
> > > > > * Support for emerging communities
> > > > > * Advancing Wikipedia in education
> > > > > * Movement values
> > > > > * Sustainability & growth
> > > > >
> > > > > Each of these themes is described in more detail within the body of
> > the
> > > > > report,[1] and the full data spreadsheet from this analysis will be
> > > > posted
> > > > > soon.
> > > > >
> > > > > The movement strategy team has been working to group these themes
> > > > together,
> > > > > so that we have a smaller number of concepts to consider in the
> next
> > > > cycle.
> > > > > Because this work is important, we want to make sure the grouping
> and
> > > > > analysis are comprehensive and thoughtful. In order to make sure we
> > can
> > > > get
> > > > > it right, we’re delaying the start of cycle 2 discussions until
> next
> > > > week.
> > > > >
> > > > > As you probably know, the Turkish authorities blocked Wikipedia in
> > > Turkey
> > > > > this week.[2] We’ve been working around the clock to understand the
> > > > > circumstances and respond appropriately, including appealing in
> > Turkish
> > > > > court. We’re grateful to everyone who has reached out to offer us
> > your
> > > > > thoughts and perspective. Government limitations on free knowledge
> > are
> > > > just
> > > > > one of the critical issues that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] May 5: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#15)

2017-05-08 Thread Ilario Valdelli 
In these cases the big advantage is the capacity to be cloned. A
governement can block an ip or a domain but it would be hard to block
internet.

The good approach is to invite the web to host kiwix and zim files for
downloading. That would be easier than cloning Wikipedia content.

However that approach will save readers but not writers.

Kind regards

Il 07 Mag 2017 23:36, "Gabriel Thullen"  ha scritto:

> I agree with James that we need to encourage initiatives like Kiwix
> Wikipedia Zero. We need to be able to distribute Kiwix in countries that
> have blocked Wikipedia, because it is no big deal for a government to block
> the Kiwix.org site as well, and phone operators providing Wikipedia Zero
> will have to obey government injunctions. Chances are that a block on
> kiwix.org will hardly be noticed by our community. Looks like the good old
> sneakernet with USB flash drives is still a viable option...
>
> Gabe
>
> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
> wrote:
>
> > Yup. It would be interesting to ponder if wiki app could channel through
> > Tor by default - in the spirit of The Guardian project. Informing users
> > about Tor benefits has obvious disavantages related to the fact that most
> > people will not be able to grasp it.
> >
> > Dariusz Jemielniak
> >
> > On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 9:26 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
> >
> > > The issues occurring in Turkey highlight that we may also need to keep
> in
> > > mind:
> > >
> > > * Access
> > >
> > > over the next 15 years. Where access is not only potentially hindered
> by
> > > governments but also technical and monetary realities in various
> country
> > > and region. We of course have already worked and continue to do work in
> > > this area with initiatives like Wikipedia Zero and Offline Wikipedia /
> > > Kiwix.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Katherine Maher 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > *Summary: The report from cycle 1 discussion is online[1]. The start
> of
> > > > cycle 2 is delayed until next week.*
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your contributions! We have been hard at work reading,
> > > > sorting, and summarizing more than 1,800 community member statements,
> > > from
> > > > more than 100 community discussions from across five continents. Each
> > of
> > > > these statements was a response to the question: "What do we want to
> > > build
> > > > or achieve together over the next 15 years?"
> > > >
> > > > You can find the full report on the major themes, and more details
> > about
> > > > them, in a summarized report on Meta-Wiki.[1]
> > > >
> > > > Some common themes emerged from these conversations:
> > > >
> > > > * Reliable, neutral, high-quality content
> > > > * Community health & support
> > > > * Internal & external collaboration
> > > > * Improved and new features
> > > > * Users, editors, & contributors
> > > > * Outreach, awareness, & promotion
> > > > * Innovation and adaptation
> > > > * Funding, staffing, and other organizational needs
> > > > * Support for emerging communities
> > > > * Advancing Wikipedia in education
> > > > * Movement values
> > > > * Sustainability & growth
> > > >
> > > > Each of these themes is described in more detail within the body of
> the
> > > > report,[1] and the full data spreadsheet from this analysis will be
> > > posted
> > > > soon.
> > > >
> > > > The movement strategy team has been working to group these themes
> > > together,
> > > > so that we have a smaller number of concepts to consider in the next
> > > cycle.
> > > > Because this work is important, we want to make sure the grouping and
> > > > analysis are comprehensive and thoughtful. In order to make sure we
> can
> > > get
> > > > it right, we’re delaying the start of cycle 2 discussions until next
> > > week.
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know, the Turkish authorities blocked Wikipedia in
> > Turkey
> > > > this week.[2] We’ve been working around the clock to understand the
> > > > circumstances and respond appropriately, including appealing in
> Turkish
> > > > court. We’re grateful to everyone who has reached out to offer us
> your
> > > > thoughts and perspective. Government limitations on free knowledge
> are
> > > just
> > > > one of the critical issues that have come up during the movement
> > strategy
> > > > process. As we confront these challenges in real time, it has been a
> > > > reminder for me how important our work is, and how it has very real
> > > > implications for people around the globe. Again, thank you.
> > > >
> > > > Kendine iyi bak (Turkish translation: “Take care of yourself”),
> > > >
> > > > Katherine
> > > >
> > > > PS. A version of this message is available for translation on
> > > Meta-Wiki.[3]
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > > movement/2017/Cycle_1/Report
> > > > [2]
> > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] May 5: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#15)

2017-05-07 Thread Gabriel Thullen 
I agree with James that we need to encourage initiatives like Kiwix
Wikipedia Zero. We need to be able to distribute Kiwix in countries that
have blocked Wikipedia, because it is no big deal for a government to block
the Kiwix.org site as well, and phone operators providing Wikipedia Zero
will have to obey government injunctions. Chances are that a block on
kiwix.org will hardly be noticed by our community. Looks like the good old
sneakernet with USB flash drives is still a viable option...

Gabe

On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
wrote:

> Yup. It would be interesting to ponder if wiki app could channel through
> Tor by default - in the spirit of The Guardian project. Informing users
> about Tor benefits has obvious disavantages related to the fact that most
> people will not be able to grasp it.
>
> Dariusz Jemielniak
>
> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 9:26 PM, James Heilman  wrote:
>
> > The issues occurring in Turkey highlight that we may also need to keep in
> > mind:
> >
> > * Access
> >
> > over the next 15 years. Where access is not only potentially hindered by
> > governments but also technical and monetary realities in various country
> > and region. We of course have already worked and continue to do work in
> > this area with initiatives like Wikipedia Zero and Offline Wikipedia /
> > Kiwix.
> >
> > James
> >
> > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Katherine Maher 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > *Summary: The report from cycle 1 discussion is online[1]. The start of
> > > cycle 2 is delayed until next week.*
> > >
> > > Thank you for your contributions! We have been hard at work reading,
> > > sorting, and summarizing more than 1,800 community member statements,
> > from
> > > more than 100 community discussions from across five continents. Each
> of
> > > these statements was a response to the question: "What do we want to
> > build
> > > or achieve together over the next 15 years?"
> > >
> > > You can find the full report on the major themes, and more details
> about
> > > them, in a summarized report on Meta-Wiki.[1]
> > >
> > > Some common themes emerged from these conversations:
> > >
> > > * Reliable, neutral, high-quality content
> > > * Community health & support
> > > * Internal & external collaboration
> > > * Improved and new features
> > > * Users, editors, & contributors
> > > * Outreach, awareness, & promotion
> > > * Innovation and adaptation
> > > * Funding, staffing, and other organizational needs
> > > * Support for emerging communities
> > > * Advancing Wikipedia in education
> > > * Movement values
> > > * Sustainability & growth
> > >
> > > Each of these themes is described in more detail within the body of the
> > > report,[1] and the full data spreadsheet from this analysis will be
> > posted
> > > soon.
> > >
> > > The movement strategy team has been working to group these themes
> > together,
> > > so that we have a smaller number of concepts to consider in the next
> > cycle.
> > > Because this work is important, we want to make sure the grouping and
> > > analysis are comprehensive and thoughtful. In order to make sure we can
> > get
> > > it right, we’re delaying the start of cycle 2 discussions until next
> > week.
> > >
> > > As you probably know, the Turkish authorities blocked Wikipedia in
> Turkey
> > > this week.[2] We’ve been working around the clock to understand the
> > > circumstances and respond appropriately, including appealing in Turkish
> > > court. We’re grateful to everyone who has reached out to offer us your
> > > thoughts and perspective. Government limitations on free knowledge are
> > just
> > > one of the critical issues that have come up during the movement
> strategy
> > > process. As we confront these challenges in real time, it has been a
> > > reminder for me how important our work is, and how it has very real
> > > implications for people around the globe. Again, thank you.
> > >
> > > Kendine iyi bak (Turkish translation: “Take care of yourself”),
> > >
> > > Katherine
> > >
> > > PS. A version of this message is available for translation on
> > Meta-Wiki.[3]
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > movement/2017/Cycle_1/Report
> > > [2]
> > > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/04/30/turkish-
> > authorities-block-wikipedia/
> > > [3]
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > movement/2017/Updates/5_May_2017_-_Update_15_on_Wikimedia_
> > > movement_strategy_process
> > >
> > > --
> > > Katherine Maher
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > 149 New Montgomery Street
> > > San Francisco, CA 94105
> > >
> > > +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6635
> > > +1 (415) 712 4873
> > > kma...@wikimedia.org
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] May 5: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#15)

2017-05-07 Thread James Heilman 
The issues occurring in Turkey highlight that we may also need to keep in
mind:

* Access

over the next 15 years. Where access is not only potentially hindered by
governments but also technical and monetary realities in various country
and region. We of course have already worked and continue to do work in
this area with initiatives like Wikipedia Zero and Offline Wikipedia /
Kiwix.

James

On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Katherine Maher 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> *Summary: The report from cycle 1 discussion is online[1]. The start of
> cycle 2 is delayed until next week.*
>
> Thank you for your contributions! We have been hard at work reading,
> sorting, and summarizing more than 1,800 community member statements, from
> more than 100 community discussions from across five continents. Each of
> these statements was a response to the question: "What do we want to build
> or achieve together over the next 15 years?"
>
> You can find the full report on the major themes, and more details about
> them, in a summarized report on Meta-Wiki.[1]
>
> Some common themes emerged from these conversations:
>
> * Reliable, neutral, high-quality content
> * Community health & support
> * Internal & external collaboration
> * Improved and new features
> * Users, editors, & contributors
> * Outreach, awareness, & promotion
> * Innovation and adaptation
> * Funding, staffing, and other organizational needs
> * Support for emerging communities
> * Advancing Wikipedia in education
> * Movement values
> * Sustainability & growth
>
> Each of these themes is described in more detail within the body of the
> report,[1] and the full data spreadsheet from this analysis will be posted
> soon.
>
> The movement strategy team has been working to group these themes together,
> so that we have a smaller number of concepts to consider in the next cycle.
> Because this work is important, we want to make sure the grouping and
> analysis are comprehensive and thoughtful. In order to make sure we can get
> it right, we’re delaying the start of cycle 2 discussions until next week.
>
> As you probably know, the Turkish authorities blocked Wikipedia in Turkey
> this week.[2] We’ve been working around the clock to understand the
> circumstances and respond appropriately, including appealing in Turkish
> court. We’re grateful to everyone who has reached out to offer us your
> thoughts and perspective. Government limitations on free knowledge are just
> one of the critical issues that have come up during the movement strategy
> process. As we confront these challenges in real time, it has been a
> reminder for me how important our work is, and how it has very real
> implications for people around the globe. Again, thank you.
>
> Kendine iyi bak (Turkish translation: “Take care of yourself”),
>
> Katherine
>
> PS. A version of this message is available for translation on Meta-Wiki.[3]
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Cycle_1/Report
> [2]
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/04/30/turkish-authorities-block-wikipedia/
> [3]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Updates/5_May_2017_-_Update_15_on_Wikimedia_
> movement_strategy_process
>
> --
> Katherine Maher
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 149 New Montgomery Street
> San Francisco, CA 94105
>
> +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6635
> +1 (415) 712 4873
> kma...@wikimedia.org
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
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