[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
I'd just like to point out that trying to move to a new location in this pandemic era, especially in a country with (pardon me if I give offense but) widespread skepticism if not outright resistance to vaccinations, can be quite risky to one's health or the health of one's families. So I think we should take such a discussion out of this thread. The location of employees generally for future hires could be something to be discussed, but perhaps that too should be in a separate thread. Ariel On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 4:45 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: > Yaroslav, > > These public disclosures of both overall salary costs and top-earners' > individual salaries are mandated by law. > > There is little point in having legislators mandate public disclosures if > then nobody reads and discusses them. > > This said, I am quite open to being told that I take a too jaundiced view > of some things. I am also aware that many WMF staff located in San > Francisco are not "rich" by any means, even though they may on paper be > earning four or five times what someone doing the same job in Europe or > Asia is earning. This has to do with the fact that WMF salaries fluctuate > widely, those at the bottom earning far less than those at the top, and the > cost of living in San Francisco is exorbitant. > > But I do ask myself, especially in view of the past two years of Covid and > Zoom meetings, and so many people working from home, what point there is in > having large numbers of WMF staffers based in San Francisco. > > Andreas > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 1:33 PM Yaroslav Blanter wrote: > >> Am I the only one who thinks that discussing salaries (even if publicly >> disclosed) of named persons on this mailing list is highly inappropriate? >> >> (I have no relation to WMF or any of these persons, for the record). >> >> Best >> Yaroslav >> >> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 1:45 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: >> >>> Christophe, >>> >>> "First year" applies in Jaime Villagomez' case (who took over as CFO on >>> Feb. 1, 2016). Thank you for pointing that out. If his 2016 salary of >>> $237,665 was only for eleven months (yielding an annual salary figure of >>> 12/11 x 237,665 = 259,270), that does reduce the increase over three years >>> to about $30,000. >>> >>> Toby Negrin and Lisa Seitz-Gruwell both joined before 2016, so no >>> first-year exception applies in their cases. >>> >>> You say it's important to look at the percentage increases. Let's do so. >>> >>> In Jaime's case, with 2016–2019 base salaries of $259,270 (est.), >>> $264,341, $275,495 and $289,356, I arrive at annual percentage increases of >>> 2.0%, 4.2% and 5.0%. >>> >>> In Lisa's case ($209,706, $216,556, $229,170, $252,117) I make the >>> increases 3.3%, 5.8%, 10.0%. >>> >>> In Toby's case ($192,018, $214,504, $228,023, $237,992) the increases >>> were 11.7%, 6.3%, 4.4%. >>> >>> Per the Form 990 info, WMF salary costs per head increased year-on-year >>> by 13%, 7% and 6% (if you use Anne's method of calculating the average >>> salary cost per head; with the one I first used only the first figure would >>> change, to 15%, while the other two are unaffected). >>> >>> As for market practice in the US, according to the US Average Wage >>> Index[1], the average increases in those years were 3.45%, 3.62% and 3.75%. >>> >>> The above salary increases are well above these national averages. They >>> are also, it must be said, financed by fundraising banners making people >>> believe that Wikimedia is struggling to have enough money to keep Wikipedia >>> up and running. >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> [1] https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:05 PM Christophe Henner < >>> christophe.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi, I'm sorry but I feel that discussion is loaded and meant to create a heated debate and not provide good analysis data points. I was surprised by your claims, so I picked one example, not giving names to not single anyone out. First, you assume the first year is systematically a full year, it never is. And yes even if you arrive mid january, it does take a dent in your yearly compensation (it represents 5%). Second, you voluntarily speak in numbers and not ratio, which makes all data easy to twist. The one I checked had a 4% to 6% yearly salary increase which all in all is market practice in the US (we can argue about the discrepancies but hey). Third, even if you spot a higher increase, going into personal details about the increase is meaningless (such increases can be related to pre negotiated increase, to planned catch up on cost of living, on role change, role expansion, new responsibilities, beyond expectations achievements, a load of valid HR reasons). If only on very specific and verifiable data points like those I can find how you distort reality to fit your narrative I can only assume you are doing the same
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
Yaroslav, These public disclosures of both overall salary costs and top-earners' individual salaries are mandated by law. There is little point in having legislators mandate public disclosures if then nobody reads and discusses them. This said, I am quite open to being told that I take a too jaundiced view of some things. I am also aware that many WMF staff located in San Francisco are not "rich" by any means, even though they may on paper be earning four or five times what someone doing the same job in Europe or Asia is earning. This has to do with the fact that WMF salaries fluctuate widely, those at the bottom earning far less than those at the top, and the cost of living in San Francisco is exorbitant. But I do ask myself, especially in view of the past two years of Covid and Zoom meetings, and so many people working from home, what point there is in having large numbers of WMF staffers based in San Francisco. Andreas On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 1:33 PM Yaroslav Blanter wrote: > Am I the only one who thinks that discussing salaries (even if publicly > disclosed) of named persons on this mailing list is highly inappropriate? > > (I have no relation to WMF or any of these persons, for the record). > > Best > Yaroslav > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 1:45 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: > >> Christophe, >> >> "First year" applies in Jaime Villagomez' case (who took over as CFO on >> Feb. 1, 2016). Thank you for pointing that out. If his 2016 salary of >> $237,665 was only for eleven months (yielding an annual salary figure of >> 12/11 x 237,665 = 259,270), that does reduce the increase over three years >> to about $30,000. >> >> Toby Negrin and Lisa Seitz-Gruwell both joined before 2016, so no >> first-year exception applies in their cases. >> >> You say it's important to look at the percentage increases. Let's do so. >> >> In Jaime's case, with 2016–2019 base salaries of $259,270 (est.), >> $264,341, $275,495 and $289,356, I arrive at annual percentage increases of >> 2.0%, 4.2% and 5.0%. >> >> In Lisa's case ($209,706, $216,556, $229,170, $252,117) I make the >> increases 3.3%, 5.8%, 10.0%. >> >> In Toby's case ($192,018, $214,504, $228,023, $237,992) the increases >> were 11.7%, 6.3%, 4.4%. >> >> Per the Form 990 info, WMF salary costs per head increased year-on-year >> by 13%, 7% and 6% (if you use Anne's method of calculating the average >> salary cost per head; with the one I first used only the first figure would >> change, to 15%, while the other two are unaffected). >> >> As for market practice in the US, according to the US Average Wage >> Index[1], the average increases in those years were 3.45%, 3.62% and 3.75%. >> >> The above salary increases are well above these national averages. They >> are also, it must be said, financed by fundraising banners making people >> believe that Wikimedia is struggling to have enough money to keep Wikipedia >> up and running. >> >> Andreas >> >> [1] https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:05 PM Christophe Henner < >> christophe.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I'm sorry but I feel that discussion is loaded and meant to create a >>> heated debate and not provide good analysis data points. >>> >>> I was surprised by your claims, so I picked one example, not giving >>> names to not single anyone out. >>> >>> First, you assume the first year is systematically a full year, it never >>> is. And yes even if you arrive mid january, it does take a dent in your >>> yearly compensation (it represents 5%). >>> Second, you voluntarily speak in numbers and not ratio, which makes all >>> data easy to twist. The one I checked had a 4% to 6% yearly salary increase >>> which all in all is market practice in the US (we can argue about the >>> discrepancies but hey). >>> Third, even if you spot a higher increase, going into personal details >>> about the increase is meaningless (such increases can be related to pre >>> negotiated increase, to planned catch up on cost of living, on role change, >>> role expansion, new responsibilities, beyond expectations achievements, a >>> load of valid HR reasons). >>> >>> If only on very specific and verifiable data points like those I can >>> find how you distort reality to fit your narrative I can only assume you >>> are doing the same for the rest of the discussion. >>> >>> Public eye provides a safeguard for problems and financial abuses, yes >>> (and that's why 503c are public). >>> >>> But twisting those data to spread gratuitous shade on people working for >>> the Foundation (and even naming them) is wrong and honestly shows a lack of >>> empathy (you don't care about how people can live when their integrity is >>> attacked while they are committed). >>> >>> So I am happy to jump in Spreadsheet and discuss compensations, but if >>> we are to do it, let's at the very least do it with a benevolent approach >>> and minding the people whose job is talked about. >>> >>> Just a bit of empathy and
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
Am I the only one who thinks that discussing salaries (even if publicly disclosed) of named persons on this mailing list is highly inappropriate? (I have no relation to WMF or any of these persons, for the record). Best Yaroslav On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 1:45 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: > Christophe, > > "First year" applies in Jaime Villagomez' case (who took over as CFO on > Feb. 1, 2016). Thank you for pointing that out. If his 2016 salary of > $237,665 was only for eleven months (yielding an annual salary figure of > 12/11 x 237,665 = 259,270), that does reduce the increase over three years > to about $30,000. > > Toby Negrin and Lisa Seitz-Gruwell both joined before 2016, so no > first-year exception applies in their cases. > > You say it's important to look at the percentage increases. Let's do so. > > In Jaime's case, with 2016–2019 base salaries of $259,270 (est.), > $264,341, $275,495 and $289,356, I arrive at annual percentage increases of > 2.0%, 4.2% and 5.0%. > > In Lisa's case ($209,706, $216,556, $229,170, $252,117) I make the > increases 3.3%, 5.8%, 10.0%. > > In Toby's case ($192,018, $214,504, $228,023, $237,992) the increases > were 11.7%, 6.3%, 4.4%. > > Per the Form 990 info, WMF salary costs per head increased year-on-year by > 13%, 7% and 6% (if you use Anne's method of calculating the average salary > cost per head; with the one I first used only the first figure would > change, to 15%, while the other two are unaffected). > > As for market practice in the US, according to the US Average Wage > Index[1], the average increases in those years were 3.45%, 3.62% and 3.75%. > > The above salary increases are well above these national averages. They > are also, it must be said, financed by fundraising banners making people > believe that Wikimedia is struggling to have enough money to keep Wikipedia > up and running. > > Andreas > > [1] https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html > > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:05 PM Christophe Henner < > christophe.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm sorry but I feel that discussion is loaded and meant to create a >> heated debate and not provide good analysis data points. >> >> I was surprised by your claims, so I picked one example, not giving names >> to not single anyone out. >> >> First, you assume the first year is systematically a full year, it never >> is. And yes even if you arrive mid january, it does take a dent in your >> yearly compensation (it represents 5%). >> Second, you voluntarily speak in numbers and not ratio, which makes all >> data easy to twist. The one I checked had a 4% to 6% yearly salary increase >> which all in all is market practice in the US (we can argue about the >> discrepancies but hey). >> Third, even if you spot a higher increase, going into personal details >> about the increase is meaningless (such increases can be related to pre >> negotiated increase, to planned catch up on cost of living, on role change, >> role expansion, new responsibilities, beyond expectations achievements, a >> load of valid HR reasons). >> >> If only on very specific and verifiable data points like those I can find >> how you distort reality to fit your narrative I can only assume you are >> doing the same for the rest of the discussion. >> >> Public eye provides a safeguard for problems and financial abuses, yes >> (and that's why 503c are public). >> >> But twisting those data to spread gratuitous shade on people working for >> the Foundation (and even naming them) is wrong and honestly shows a lack of >> empathy (you don't care about how people can live when their integrity is >> attacked while they are committed). >> >> So I am happy to jump in Spreadsheet and discuss compensations, but if we >> are to do it, let's at the very least do it with a benevolent approach and >> minding the people whose job is talked about. >> >> Just a bit of empathy and care goes a long way :) >> >> >> -- >> Christophe >> >> >> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 15:20, Andreas Kolbe wrote: >> >>> Correction: >>> >>> The 2016 base salary figure for Lisa in my previous mail should have >>> read $209,706, not $192,018. >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 1:55 PM Andreas Kolbe >>> wrote: >>> Chris, All the numbers are taken from the official Form 990s filed. You can verify them for yourself here: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703 There is also a table of top-earners' base salaries on Meta, with data taken from the Form 990: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_salaries Have a look. They show various individuals' salaries increasing by remarkable amounts in recent years. Jaime Villagomez' base salary for example increased by more than $50,000 in three years, from $237,665 in 2016 to $289,356 in 2019. Toby Negrin's base salary increased by more than $45,000 over the same time period (from $192,018 to
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
Christophe, "First year" applies in Jaime Villagomez' case (who took over as CFO on Feb. 1, 2016). Thank you for pointing that out. If his 2016 salary of $237,665 was only for eleven months (yielding an annual salary figure of 12/11 x 237,665 = 259,270), that does reduce the increase over three years to about $30,000. Toby Negrin and Lisa Seitz-Gruwell both joined before 2016, so no first-year exception applies in their cases. You say it's important to look at the percentage increases. Let's do so. In Jaime's case, with 2016–2019 base salaries of $259,270 (est.), $264,341, $275,495 and $289,356, I arrive at annual percentage increases of 2.0%, 4.2% and 5.0%. In Lisa's case ($209,706, $216,556, $229,170, $252,117) I make the increases 3.3%, 5.8%, 10.0%. In Toby's case ($192,018, $214,504, $228,023, $237,992) the increases were 11.7%, 6.3%, 4.4%. Per the Form 990 info, WMF salary costs per head increased year-on-year by 13%, 7% and 6% (if you use Anne's method of calculating the average salary cost per head; with the one I first used only the first figure would change, to 15%, while the other two are unaffected). As for market practice in the US, according to the US Average Wage Index[1], the average increases in those years were 3.45%, 3.62% and 3.75%. The above salary increases are well above these national averages. They are also, it must be said, financed by fundraising banners making people believe that Wikimedia is struggling to have enough money to keep Wikipedia up and running. Andreas [1] https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/awidevelop.html On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:05 PM Christophe Henner < christophe.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm sorry but I feel that discussion is loaded and meant to create a > heated debate and not provide good analysis data points. > > I was surprised by your claims, so I picked one example, not giving names > to not single anyone out. > > First, you assume the first year is systematically a full year, it never > is. And yes even if you arrive mid january, it does take a dent in your > yearly compensation (it represents 5%). > Second, you voluntarily speak in numbers and not ratio, which makes all > data easy to twist. The one I checked had a 4% to 6% yearly salary increase > which all in all is market practice in the US (we can argue about the > discrepancies but hey). > Third, even if you spot a higher increase, going into personal details > about the increase is meaningless (such increases can be related to pre > negotiated increase, to planned catch up on cost of living, on role change, > role expansion, new responsibilities, beyond expectations achievements, a > load of valid HR reasons). > > If only on very specific and verifiable data points like those I can find > how you distort reality to fit your narrative I can only assume you are > doing the same for the rest of the discussion. > > Public eye provides a safeguard for problems and financial abuses, yes > (and that's why 503c are public). > > But twisting those data to spread gratuitous shade on people working for > the Foundation (and even naming them) is wrong and honestly shows a lack of > empathy (you don't care about how people can live when their integrity is > attacked while they are committed). > > So I am happy to jump in Spreadsheet and discuss compensations, but if we > are to do it, let's at the very least do it with a benevolent approach and > minding the people whose job is talked about. > > Just a bit of empathy and care goes a long way :) > > > -- > Christophe > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 15:20, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > >> Correction: >> >> The 2016 base salary figure for Lisa in my previous mail should have read >> $209,706, not $192,018. >> >> Andreas >> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 1:55 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: >> >>> Chris, >>> >>> All the numbers are taken from the official Form 990s filed. You can >>> verify them for yourself here: >>> >>> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703 >>> >>> There is also a table of top-earners' base salaries on Meta, with data >>> taken from the Form 990: >>> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_salaries >>> >>> Have a look. They show various individuals' salaries increasing by >>> remarkable amounts in recent years. >>> >>> Jaime Villagomez' base salary for example increased by more than $50,000 >>> in three years, from $237,665 in 2016 to $289,356 in 2019. >>> >>> Toby Negrin's base salary increased by more than $45,000 over the same >>> time period (from $192,018 to $237,992). >>> >>> Lisa Seitz-Gruwell's base salary increased by more than $40,000 over >>> that period (from $192,018 to $252,117). >>> >>> These are all base salaries, excluding "other compensation", which adds >>> another $34K, $33K and $21K to the salary figures for these three >>> individuals, respectively. >>> >>> You can find the above figures on Page 7 of the following forms: >>> >>> The 2016 Form 990 is here: >>>
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
Hi, I'm sorry but I feel that discussion is loaded and meant to create a heated debate and not provide good analysis data points. I was surprised by your claims, so I picked one example, not giving names to not single anyone out. First, you assume the first year is systematically a full year, it never is. And yes even if you arrive mid january, it does take a dent in your yearly compensation (it represents 5%). Second, you voluntarily speak in numbers and not ratio, which makes all data easy to twist. The one I checked had a 4% to 6% yearly salary increase which all in all is market practice in the US (we can argue about the discrepancies but hey). Third, even if you spot a higher increase, going into personal details about the increase is meaningless (such increases can be related to pre negotiated increase, to planned catch up on cost of living, on role change, role expansion, new responsibilities, beyond expectations achievements, a load of valid HR reasons). If only on very specific and verifiable data points like those I can find how you distort reality to fit your narrative I can only assume you are doing the same for the rest of the discussion. Public eye provides a safeguard for problems and financial abuses, yes (and that's why 503c are public). But twisting those data to spread gratuitous shade on people working for the Foundation (and even naming them) is wrong and honestly shows a lack of empathy (you don't care about how people can live when their integrity is attacked while they are committed). So I am happy to jump in Spreadsheet and discuss compensations, but if we are to do it, let's at the very least do it with a benevolent approach and minding the people whose job is talked about. Just a bit of empathy and care goes a long way :) -- Christophe On Mon, 31 Jan 2022 at 15:20, Andreas Kolbe wrote: > Correction: > > The 2016 base salary figure for Lisa in my previous mail should have read > $209,706, not $192,018. > > Andreas > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 1:55 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: > >> Chris, >> >> All the numbers are taken from the official Form 990s filed. You can >> verify them for yourself here: >> >> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703 >> >> There is also a table of top-earners' base salaries on Meta, with data >> taken from the Form 990: >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_salaries >> >> Have a look. They show various individuals' salaries increasing by >> remarkable amounts in recent years. >> >> Jaime Villagomez' base salary for example increased by more than $50,000 >> in three years, from $237,665 in 2016 to $289,356 in 2019. >> >> Toby Negrin's base salary increased by more than $45,000 over the same >> time period (from $192,018 to $237,992). >> >> Lisa Seitz-Gruwell's base salary increased by more than $40,000 over that >> period (from $192,018 to $252,117). >> >> These are all base salaries, excluding "other compensation", which adds >> another $34K, $33K and $21K to the salary figures for these three >> individuals, respectively. >> >> You can find the above figures on Page 7 of the following forms: >> >> The 2016 Form 990 is here: >> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703/201821349349310527/full >> The 2019 Form 990 is here: >> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703/202101319349300105/full >> >> In 2008, only three people at the WMF earned more than $100,000: >> >> >> https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/200049703/2010_05_EO%2F20-0049703_990_200906 >> >> >> In 2019, it was (at least) 165. >> >> Andreas >> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 7:44 AM Chris Keating >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, 00:45 Nathan, wrote: >>> I suspect there weren't that many FT employees of the WMF in 2008, if any? >>> >>> According to Andreas's table there were 72 total employees. How many >>> were full time? Pass! >>> >>> But his numbers make little sense, so it's hard to draw conclusions from >>> them. >>> ___ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/TKBR7ZKF74WWTJNQH3Y7JDPL522UV5CA/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> ___ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/ON6R2B63ONQWELIZTUHCFOJ6P4UAWFI6/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
Correction: The 2016 base salary figure for Lisa in my previous mail should have read $209,706, not $192,018. Andreas On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 1:55 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: > Chris, > > All the numbers are taken from the official Form 990s filed. You can > verify them for yourself here: > > https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703 > > There is also a table of top-earners' base salaries on Meta, with data > taken from the Form 990: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_salaries > > Have a look. They show various individuals' salaries increasing by > remarkable amounts in recent years. > > Jaime Villagomez' base salary for example increased by more than $50,000 > in three years, from $237,665 in 2016 to $289,356 in 2019. > > Toby Negrin's base salary increased by more than $45,000 over the same > time period (from $192,018 to $237,992). > > Lisa Seitz-Gruwell's base salary increased by more than $40,000 over that > period (from $192,018 to $252,117). > > These are all base salaries, excluding "other compensation", which adds > another $34K, $33K and $21K to the salary figures for these three > individuals, respectively. > > You can find the above figures on Page 7 of the following forms: > > The 2016 Form 990 is here: > https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703/201821349349310527/full > The 2019 Form 990 is here: > https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703/202101319349300105/full > > In 2008, only three people at the WMF earned more than $100,000: > > > https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/200049703/2010_05_EO%2F20-0049703_990_200906 > > > In 2019, it was (at least) 165. > > Andreas > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 7:44 AM Chris Keating > wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, 00:45 Nathan, wrote: >> >>> I suspect there weren't that many FT employees of the WMF in 2008, if >>> any? >>> >> >> According to Andreas's table there were 72 total employees. How many were >> full time? Pass! >> >> But his numbers make little sense, so it's hard to draw conclusions from >> them. >> >>> ___ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/TKBR7ZKF74WWTJNQH3Y7JDPL522UV5CA/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > > ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/ON6R2B63ONQWELIZTUHCFOJ6P4UAWFI6/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
Chris, All the numbers are taken from the official Form 990s filed. You can verify them for yourself here: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703 There is also a table of top-earners' base salaries on Meta, with data taken from the Form 990: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_salaries Have a look. They show various individuals' salaries increasing by remarkable amounts in recent years. Jaime Villagomez' base salary for example increased by more than $50,000 in three years, from $237,665 in 2016 to $289,356 in 2019. Toby Negrin's base salary increased by more than $45,000 over the same time period (from $192,018 to $237,992). Lisa Seitz-Gruwell's base salary increased by more than $40,000 over that period (from $192,018 to $252,117). These are all base salaries, excluding "other compensation", which adds another $34K, $33K and $21K to the salary figures for these three individuals, respectively. You can find the above figures on Page 7 of the following forms: The 2016 Form 990 is here: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703/201821349349310527/full The 2019 Form 990 is here: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/200049703/202101319349300105/full In 2008, only three people at the WMF earned more than $100,000: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/display_990/200049703/2010_05_EO%2F20-0049703_990_200906 In 2019, it was (at least) 165. Andreas On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 7:44 AM Chris Keating wrote: > > > On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, 00:45 Nathan, wrote: > >> I suspect there weren't that many FT employees of the WMF in 2008, if >> any? >> > > According to Andreas's table there were 72 total employees. How many were > full time? Pass! > > But his numbers make little sense, so it's hard to draw conclusions from > them. > >> ___ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/TKBR7ZKF74WWTJNQH3Y7JDPL522UV5CA/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/TGVI4XHR6YE5Z7VS5KTJRU6H5DXCNJDQ/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
On Mon, 31 Jan 2022, 00:45 Nathan, wrote: > I suspect there weren't that many FT employees of the WMF in 2008, if any? > According to Andreas's table there were 72 total employees. How many were full time? Pass! But his numbers make little sense, so it's hard to draw conclusions from them. > ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/TKBR7ZKF74WWTJNQH3Y7JDPL522UV5CA/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
WMF started in Florida in 2004 (no staff). First staff was probably in 2005 (Brion could confirm), with no office. We had a handful staff in 2006 (around 5-8), with a 2-3 rooms office (not all staff was over there). Around May/June 2007, we hired Sue for a 6 months term contract. After 6 months, she was made permanent (December 2007). The move to SA was in 2008. And no, employee expenses were not housed in Bomis. We clearly had already separated from Bomis some years before. Flo Le 31/01/2022 à 01:44, Nathan a écrit : I suspect there weren't that many FT employees of the WMF in 2008, if any? If I remember, WMF started that year based in Florida and moved sometime during the year. Could be that employee expenses were housed in Bomis or ledgered as something other than a labor expense. On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 4:33 PM Chris Keating wrote: On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 1:25 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: Cost per employee 28796 39801 51133 73896 84781 86493 102053 106065 116726 131734 140419 149155 I find it hard to believe that the WMF's average cost per employee has increased from $28,796 in 2008 to $149,155 in 2019. That does not seem credible to me. The figure is remarkably low in 2008 and remarkably high in 2019. Perhaps there is something else happening in the data? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RWBEYWTQYPLRCITKCSZ7VCE2R6HXQTBJ/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list --wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines andhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives athttps://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/Q36U4DL6QJ3KJTQEGT4XO5RKDDPYZA4L/ To unsubscribe send an email towikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/OE7RXE4BYAQN2B63CLTLE4ZF25UC2UJT/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
I suspect there weren't that many FT employees of the WMF in 2008, if any? If I remember, WMF started that year based in Florida and moved sometime during the year. Could be that employee expenses were housed in Bomis or ledgered as something other than a labor expense. On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 4:33 PM Chris Keating wrote: > > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 1:25 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: > >> >> Cost per employee 28796 39801 511337389684781 >> 86493 102053 106065 116726 131734 140419 149155 >> > > I find it hard to believe that the WMF's average cost per employee has > increased from $28,796 in 2008 to $149,155 in 2019. That does not seem > credible to me. The figure is remarkably low in 2008 and remarkably high in > 2019. Perhaps there is something else happening in the data? > ___ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RWBEYWTQYPLRCITKCSZ7VCE2R6HXQTBJ/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/Q36U4DL6QJ3KJTQEGT4XO5RKDDPYZA4L/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 1:25 PM Andreas Kolbe wrote: > > Cost per employee 28796 39801 51133738968478186493 > 102053 106065 116726 131734 140419 149155 > I find it hard to believe that the WMF's average cost per employee has increased from $28,796 in 2008 to $149,155 in 2019. That does not seem credible to me. The figure is remarkably low in 2008 and remarkably high in 2019. Perhaps there is something else happening in the data? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RWBEYWTQYPLRCITKCSZ7VCE2R6HXQTBJ/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia payroll and related (WAS: Re: Media coverage in Germany: Enterprise / Advocacy)
Anne, Alex, Željko, Very good, Anne. Adding in the Part V, 1a numbers as additional employees, we arrive at the table below.[1] Do you agree this is accurate? It means the average salary cost per employee increased – by 35% from 2013 to 2016, from *$86,493* in 2013 to *$116,726* in 2016, – by 28% from 2016 to 2019, from *$116,726* in 2016 to *$149,155* in 2019. (It's noteworthy that salaries rose comparatively little during Lila Tretikov's short tenure, summer 2014 – spring 2016.) We are now in 2022. Assuming salaries have continued to rise at a similar rate since 2019 (the 22% year-on-year increase in the salary and wages total reported for 2020 does make that seem likely), salary costs will average around *$190,000* ($149,155 + 28%) per employee this year. I'm assuming a current headcount of about 600 staff/contractors (incl. non-employee contractors) for the WMF, based on a recent post here from a staffer. Wikimedia Germany alone has over 100 employees of its own, and all the other affiliates together will probably bring the total to about 800. More precise figures and any other corrections welcome. Andreas 200820092010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Contract employees (V 1a) 46 47 71 52 55 73 64 70 59 64 73 82 W-3 employees (V 2a) 26 36 72 107 134 158 192 229 230 229 255 291 Total employees72 83 143 159 189 231 256 299 289 293 328 373 Total salary costs2073313 3303543 7312120 11749500 16023637 19979908 26125610 31713546 33733998 38598155 46057613 55634913 Cost per employee 28796 39801 51133738968478186493 102053 106065 116726 131734 140419 149155 [1] Here is the same table in text format (comma-delimited), for reading into Excel: ,2008,2009,2010,2011,2012,2013,2014,2015,2016,2017,2018,2019 Contract employees (Part V 1a),46,47,71,52,55,73,64,70,59,64,73,82 W-3 employees (Part V 2a),26,36,72,107,134,158,192,229,230,229,255,291 Total employees,72,83,143,159,189,231,256,299,289,293,328,373 Total salary costs,2073313,3303543,7312120,11749500,16023637,19979908,26125610,31713546,33733998,38598155,46057613,55634913 Cost per employee,28796,39801,51133,73896,84781,86493,102053,106065,116726,131734,140419,149155 On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 6:25 AM Željko Blaće wrote: > Interesting discussion but away from the focal point of what Christian > shared. > Hope both can be useful and continue but in separate email threads. > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 4:04 AM Risker wrote: > >> Andreas - >> >> First off, contract employees are employees. There were 82 of them. >> (Part V, line 1a on the Form 990) They do not receive a W-3 form. Only 291 >> employees received the W-3 form. That brings employee total to 373. >> >> Secondly, you fail to compensate for the fact that the 13 "key employees" >> - officers, the top 5 compensated non-officer staff, and other key staff - >> received approximately $3.3 million alone. That reduces the employee pool >> to 360 and the compensation pool to $52.3 million. >> >> That gives an average total compensation of about $145,000 USD. >> Reportable compensation includes pension plan contributions, medical/dental >> plans, paid leaves,social security/medicare taxes, insurance, costs >> reimbursed for maintaining a home office, and many other forms of direct or >> indirect compensation. The benefits package would run about 25-30% of the >> base salary, and other compensation will add into that. >> >> There's no reason whatsoever to believe that the employee numbers >> remained static the following year; in fact, in your other statement, your >> figures would suggest you think the WMF currently has about 650-675 staff. >> >> >> Risker/Anne >> >> >> ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3IGJVWMKISF5D4BSDIQN2HOPLSLZFJ2P/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
