Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
this was the reason i started to look again if there are extensions available to keep only one wiki and hide some pages away. would anything technically speak against using http://sourceforge.net/projects/hiddenwiki/ ? this then would be nice in fullfilling some peoples/projects requirement for "less publicity" while leaving us with one wiki, which i feel most of us prefer. rupert. On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:20, Manuel Schneider wrote: > > I like to mention that WM CH already _had_ a members wiki for around two years > and it was abandoned, that's why we restructured the sites how they are now. > This was a board decision. > > Am Mittwoch, 25. Februar 2009 10:43:55 schrieb Nico Ray: >> Hi, >> >> I would be in favoir of the first option, which, as far as I know, is the >> one in place for other local chapters (fr at least) >> >> Nico >> >> >> >> - Message d'origine - >> De: THURNER rupert >> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:59:47 +0100 >> Sujet: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members? >> À: wikimediach-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> hi, >> >> frederic proposed, that projects should have a possibility to use our >> wiki(s) and anyway hide information from the general public. an >> example would be lists of persons to contact with phone numbers. >> >> the ideal case would be a wiki which supports access control lists, >> like http://moinmo.in/HelpOnAccessControlLists does. >> >> for mediawiki i am a little clueless what the best solution might be. >> what possibilities would we have, and which one would you favour? >> >> 1. http://members.wikimedia.ch >> a dedicated members wiki, somebody does theh user registration as long >> there is no automatic way >> >> 2. http://wikimedia.ch with hiddenwiki >> patch our current wiki with >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hiddenwiki/, which would allow to hide >> away namespaces >> viewable only to users with special rights. >> >> 3. ?? >> >> kr, rupert. >> >> ___ >> http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website >> Wikimediach-l mailing list >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l >> >> >> >> ___ >> http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website >> Wikimediach-l mailing list >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l > > > > -- > - > Master's SYSTEMS Webhosting & Servermanagement > Scheffelstrasse 1 > 79585 Steinen > > Manuel Schneider > > Tel: +49 7627 924555 > Fax: +49 7627 924557 > > m.schnei...@masterssystems.de > http://www.masterssystems.de > --- > > ___ > http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website > Wikimediach-l mailing list > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l > ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Nico Ray wrote: > > In both cases, I don't really care whenever the publishing web site is a > Wiki, a CMS, a blog or whatever else... I just would like to ensure a minimum > of security and data protection, together with the freedom and ability for > all concerned people to perform changes or modifications. > > Nico Ok, you know the current picture. It's your choice to accept if a simple login or password could be acceptable. Reading this last sentence it seems to me that the *minimum* protection assured by Mediawiki can be acceptable and the access to these data of other members and/or participants to projects is not a problem. Is it? Ilario ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
Maybe it's the good time to take two real-life examples : * I got by mail the name and phone from somebody at the Chancelleries' of Vaud who is the contact person for us in the frame of having official pictures published on a free license. My problem is the following : I don't feel about publishing these data to an open web site (whatever it is), but on the other hand, I would like to ensure that somebody else could follow-up if needed. * In the frame of a new project (...more news to come at the General assembly...), we had to share a lot of information and data between around 10 people, but we wanted to keep it "hidden" from the rest of the world. In both cases, I don't really care whenever the publishing web site is a Wiki, a CMS, a blog or whatever else... I just would like to ensure a minimum of security and data protection, together with the freedom and ability for all concerned people to perform changes or modifications. Nico - Message d'origine - De: Ilario Valdelli Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:18:21 +0100 Sujet: Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members? À: Mailing list for Wikimedia CH >On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Frederic Schutz wrote: >> >> Because Mediawiki was developed for open-access projects such as >> Wikipedia, which does require only very little control access for >> reading (e.g. deletion, oversight). >> > >This is correct. > >Which is the difference between a Wiki and a Content Management >System? First of all a flatten "level of access" (one or two different >type of access) and for this reason "no workflow" (no approval, no >publishing process). > >In a wiki only the status of user logged in/logged out is assured, any >other functionality to manage users is not a must for a wiki. > >Ilario > >___ >http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website >Wikimediach-l mailing list >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l > ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Frederic Schutz wrote: > > Because Mediawiki was developed for open-access projects such as > Wikipedia, which does require only very little control access for > reading (e.g. deletion, oversight). > This is correct. Which is the difference between a Wiki and a Content Management System? First of all a flatten "level of access" (one or two different type of access) and for this reason "no workflow" (no approval, no publishing process). In a wiki only the status of user logged in/logged out is assured, any other functionality to manage users is not a must for a wiki. Ilario ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
Patrick Kenel wrote: > Good summary, Ilario. My question: Why is it difficult with Mediawiki? Because Mediawiki was developed for open-access projects such as Wikipedia, which does require only very little control access for reading (e.g. deletion, oversight). Several extensions have been created to control access, but since the core software has not been designed with this kind of security in mind, and there are many potential ways to get information out of the system, so it is very hard to guarantee that they work as intended. This is, as far as I know, the "official" position of the developers. It does not say anything about whether these extensions would work well enough in practice, nor if they would fit any of our needs. You can have a look at the following pages for more information: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Restricting_access http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Security_issues_with_authorization_extensions For what it's worth, we use Mediawiki at work and decided to create different closed wikis for each project. We first tried to use another wiki system that is better at restricting access, but people were confused by the different syntaxes (either because they contribute to Wikipedia, or because they collaborate with other people who use Mediawiki), so we switched to Mediawiki. We have ~10 active wikis and it works ok, but it could easily become a nightmare if people start having to share information from one project to another... Frédéric ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
Good summary, Ilario. My question: Why is it difficult with Mediawiki? Patrick > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:11:51 +0100 > From: valde...@gmail.com > To: wikimediach-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members? > > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Manuel Schneider > wrote: > > > > I like to mention that WM CH already _had_ a members wiki for around two > > years > > and it was abandoned, that's why we restructured the sites how they are now. > > This was a board decision. > > > > What Manuel has said is correct and I hope to *don't* reopen > members.wikimedia.ch. > > I would summarize the decision also for members who has not been > informed about this decision. In this case they can make their own > opinion. > > At start three websites: > * www.wikimedia.ch > * members.wikimedia.ch > * board.wikimedia.ch > > There was no sense because was very difficult to update three websites > in 4 languages and the board asked to have this distinction: > * www.wikimedia.ch (without login) - official website > * www.wikimedia.ch (with login) - website to coordinate members and to > have internal communication in substitution of members.wikimedia.ch > * board.wikimedia.ch (without login) - communication of board to external > * board.wikimedia.ch (with login) - to coordinate board's jobs > > What Michael is saying has a sense... we need to have another website > for projects because it should give access to participants of projects > which cannot be members. > > We have had in the past some exceptions for example for Dani Boos to > give him access in the board.wikimedia.ch during the Bern's Wikipedia > Day, but we hope in the future to proceed without exceptions. > > For this reason the idea of Michael has a sense and we hope to have a > subdomain to manage all projects, probably with "different levels of > access" but we know that it's difficult to manage them with Mediawiki. > > My personal opinion (but it's personal) I would give access to all > users of this "Wikilab" or "Wikiprojects" to all pages because they > can have a look in each projects and also decide to participate to > them. > > Ilario > > ___ > http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website > Wikimediach-l mailing list > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l _ Werden Sie Mitglied der neuen Windows Live Messenger Familie! http://download.live.com___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Manuel Schneider wrote: > > I like to mention that WM CH already _had_ a members wiki for around two years > and it was abandoned, that's why we restructured the sites how they are now. > This was a board decision. > What Manuel has said is correct and I hope to *don't* reopen members.wikimedia.ch. I would summarize the decision also for members who has not been informed about this decision. In this case they can make their own opinion. At start three websites: * www.wikimedia.ch * members.wikimedia.ch * board.wikimedia.ch There was no sense because was very difficult to update three websites in 4 languages and the board asked to have this distinction: * www.wikimedia.ch (without login) - official website * www.wikimedia.ch (with login) - website to coordinate members and to have internal communication in substitution of members.wikimedia.ch * board.wikimedia.ch (without login) - communication of board to external * board.wikimedia.ch (with login) - to coordinate board's jobs What Michael is saying has a sense... we need to have another website for projects because it should give access to participants of projects which cannot be members. We have had in the past some exceptions for example for Dani Boos to give him access in the board.wikimedia.ch during the Bern's Wikipedia Day, but we hope in the future to proceed without exceptions. For this reason the idea of Michael has a sense and we hope to have a subdomain to manage all projects, probably with "different levels of access" but we know that it's difficult to manage them with Mediawiki. My personal opinion (but it's personal) I would give access to all users of this "Wikilab" or "Wikiprojects" to all pages because they can have a look in each projects and also decide to participate to them. Ilario ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
I like to mention that WM CH already _had_ a members wiki for around two years and it was abandoned, that's why we restructured the sites how they are now. This was a board decision. Am Mittwoch, 25. Februar 2009 10:43:55 schrieb Nico Ray: > Hi, > > I would be in favoir of the first option, which, as far as I know, is the > one in place for other local chapters (fr at least) > > Nico > > > > - Message d'origine - > De: THURNER rupert > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:59:47 +0100 > Sujet: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members? > À: wikimediach-l@lists.wikimedia.org > hi, > > frederic proposed, that projects should have a possibility to use our > wiki(s) and anyway hide information from the general public. an > example would be lists of persons to contact with phone numbers. > > the ideal case would be a wiki which supports access control lists, > like http://moinmo.in/HelpOnAccessControlLists does. > > for mediawiki i am a little clueless what the best solution might be. > what possibilities would we have, and which one would you favour? > > 1. http://members.wikimedia.ch > a dedicated members wiki, somebody does theh user registration as long > there is no automatic way > > 2. http://wikimedia.ch with hiddenwiki > patch our current wiki with > http://sourceforge.net/projects/hiddenwiki/, which would allow to hide > away namespaces > viewable only to users with special rights. > > 3. ?? > > kr, rupert. > > ___ > http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website > Wikimediach-l mailing list > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l > > > > ___ > http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website > Wikimediach-l mailing list > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l -- - Master's SYSTEMS Webhosting & Servermanagement Scheffelstrasse 1 79585 Steinen Manuel Schneider Tel: +49 7627 924555 Fax: +49 7627 924557 m.schnei...@masterssystems.de http://www.masterssystems.de --- ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
Re: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
Hi, I would be in favoir of the first option, which, as far as I know, is the one in place for other local chapters (fr at least) Nico - Message d'origine - De: THURNER rupert Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:59:47 +0100 Sujet: [Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members? À: wikimediach-l@lists.wikimedia.org hi, frederic proposed, that projects should have a possibility to use our wiki(s) and anyway hide information from the general public. an example would be lists of persons to contact with phone numbers. the ideal case would be a wiki which supports access control lists, like http://moinmo.in/HelpOnAccessControlLists does. for mediawiki i am a little clueless what the best solution might be. what possibilities would we have, and which one would you favour? 1. http://members.wikimedia.ch a dedicated members wiki, somebody does theh user registration as long there is no automatic way 2. http://wikimedia.ch with hiddenwiki patch our current wiki with http://sourceforge.net/projects/hiddenwiki/, which would allow to hide away namespaces viewable only to users with special rights. 3. ?? kr, rupert. ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
[Wikimediach-l] "private" wiki for members?
hi, frederic proposed, that projects should have a possibility to use our wiki(s) and anyway hide information from the general public. an example would be lists of persons to contact with phone numbers. the ideal case would be a wiki which supports access control lists, like http://moinmo.in/HelpOnAccessControlLists does. for mediawiki i am a little clueless what the best solution might be. what possibilities would we have, and which one would you favour? 1. http://members.wikimedia.ch a dedicated members wiki, somebody does theh user registration as long there is no automatic way 2. http://wikimedia.ch with hiddenwiki patch our current wiki with http://sourceforge.net/projects/hiddenwiki/, which would allow to hide away namespaces viewable only to users with special rights. 3. ?? kr, rupert. ___ http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website Wikimediach-l mailing list https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
