[Wikimediaindia-l] Mysore event on Jan 15th
Okay, around couple of weeks back I had initiated an attempt to organize Wikipedia 10th event at Mysore. There's been some excellent response and quite a lot of activity in attempts to organize this event. However, just to make sure that no one is left out from the opportunity of taking part (in organizing, participating), I'm putting this email to you all to add any Wikimedian, Wikipedian contacts you have in Mysore to the loop. Please mail me back off-the-list. There will be a formal announcement about the efforts later this week as three venues have been zeroed in on (one of those have confirmed availability and allow use of the venue on that day), however the final one among these three need to be confirmed. Looking forward to a nice gathering at the Knowledge capital of our state to celebrate Wikipedia! -- Hari Prasad Nadig http://hpnadig.net | http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages unicode issues.
I'm curious about the issue you are discussing ... is this similar to a long-standing bug that affects Bengali, Assamese, and Bishnupriya Manipuri wikipedias? https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5948 Ragib User:Ragib on en and bn -- Ragib Hasan, Ph.D NSF Computing Innovation Fellow and Assistant Research Scientist Dept of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University 3400 N Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21218 Website: http://www.ragibhasan.com On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 1:29 AM, BalaSundaraRaman sundarbe...@yahoo.com wrote: Unicode's decision to bring the second encoding in standard was widely debated and opposed mainly by FOSS developer community from Malayalam. Unicode announced the dual encoding scheme without canonical equivalence definition in 2005 and reverted it when scholars and developers opposed it. Sadly, you're not alone in this, Santhosh. We have had canonical non-equivalence issues and many more (similar to the atomic chillu issue) in Tamil too. :( Part of it was inherited from the umbrellaish ISCII model (done with good intentions, I believe). They put the abugidas of the Indo-Aryan languages and other systems like Tamil (haven't studied other writing systems enough to comment upon) into one bucket and we're still suffering for that. They cite stability when legitimate changes are sought, but allow such breaking changes. I'm sure you'll be working with the search engines to map the equivalent glyph sequences. Also, please explore mediawiki tech solutions to add redirects or hidden texts (though not ideal). - Sundar That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted. - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture - Original Message From: Santhosh Thottingal santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com To: Discussion list on Indian language projects of Wikimedia. wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 10:28:17 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages unicode issues. On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:43 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucher...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Happened to see Gerard's blog post on issues with Malayalam Wikipedia Unicode upgrade to 5.1 http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2010/12/malayalam-enigma.html The issue is very complex. There were heated debates around this topic in Unicode Indic Mailing list for years. In short the issue is about dual encoding- representing a letter using two types of unicode character codes. Unicode's decision to bring the second encoding in standard was widely debated and opposed mainly by FOSS developer community from Malayalam. Unicode announced the dual encoding scheme without canonical equivalence definition in 2005 and reverted it when scholars and developers opposed it. The same proposal again introduced. Foss community, language scholars protested the proposal. The SMC community submitted a document with 17 reasons why dual encoding should not be introduced.- see http://wiki.smc.org.in/images/2/23/SMC_Unicode_5.1.pdf Similarly a seminar conducted to discuss the issue by University of Kerala opposed the proposal. see http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080131071131/fci/images/1/19/Report_of_Workshop.pdf f But Unicode technical consortium did not bother to answer both of these reports and went ahead with the decision in Unicode 5.1. The dual encoding scheme is with out any canonical equivalence definition. Since it is not there in standard I doubt whether Operating systems will implement it, not to mention about search engines. Since the new encoding scheme is defined without backward compatibility, or against unicode's stability policy, Malayalam FOSS community decided not to implement it until issues are resolved and continuing with unicode 5.0 encoding. Malayalam news portals also follow unicode 5.0. Most of the tools from Google also continue with unicode 5.0 based encoding. Malayalam wikipedia decided to go ahead with latest version of unicode. I had resisted this move in the discussion pages of Malayalam wikipedia. The decision was taken based on voting by a small community of editors and not based on proper technical analysis. Believe it or not, this is how Malayalam wiki is rendered inWindows XP IE 8 box with OS default font: http://thottingal.in/tmp/ml-wiki-winxp-IE8.png I hope it gives some clue about the issue that Gerard mentioned. Most of the discussions happened around the encoding issue was in Malayalam(in Malayalam wiki or in blogs), but this English blog post might summarize it http://www.j4v4m4n.in/2009/11/07/unicode-or-malayalam/ Discussions happened in Malayalam wikipedia(content in Malayalam language) http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/വിക്കിപീഡിയ:പഞ്ചായത്ത്_(സാങ്കേതികം)/യൂണികോഡ്_5.1.0/ചർച്ച_(പഴയവ) Thanks Santhosh Thottingal http://thottingal.in
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages unicode issues.
Ragib, (copied Tamil Wiki list) We've faced an issue similar to Bug #5948. Due to non-canonicalisation, there are two articles on the same title in Tamil Wikipedia! http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%87%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%81:%E0%AE%AE%E2%80%8C%E0%AE%9E%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9A%E2%80%8C%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%8D_%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%AE%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%B2%E0%AF%88 (Tamil discussion) - Sundar That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted. - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture - Original Message From: Ragib Hasan ragibha...@gmail.com To: Discussion list on Indian language projects of Wikimedia. wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 10:23:06 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages unicode issues. I'm curious about the issue you are discussing ... is this similar to a long-standing bug that affects Bengali, Assamese, and Bishnupriya Manipuri wikipedias? https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5948 Ragib User:Ragib on en and bn -- Ragib Hasan, Ph.D NSF Computing Innovation Fellow and Assistant Research Scientist Dept of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University 3400 N Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21218 Website: http://www.ragibhasan.com On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 1:29 AM, BalaSundaraRaman sundarbe...@yahoo.com wrote: Unicode's decision to bring the second encoding in standard was widely debated and opposed mainly by FOSS developer community from Malayalam. Unicode announced the dual encoding scheme without canonical equivalence definition in 2005 and reverted it when scholars and developers opposed it. Sadly, you're not alone in this, Santhosh. We have had canonical non-equivalence issues and many more (similar to the atomic chillu issue) in Tamil too. :( Part of it was inherited from the umbrellaish ISCII model (done with good intentions, I believe). They put the abugidas of the Indo-Aryan languages and other systems like Tamil (haven't studied other writing systems enough to comment upon) into one bucket and we're still suffering for that. They cite stability when legitimate changes are sought, but allow such breaking changes. I'm sure you'll be working with the search engines to map the equivalent glyph sequences. Also, please explore mediawiki tech solutions to add redirects or hidden texts (though not ideal). - Sundar That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted. - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture - Original Message From: Santhosh Thottingal santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com To: Discussion list on Indian language projects of Wikimedia. wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 10:28:17 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages unicode issues. On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:43 PM, CherianTinu Abraham tinucher...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Happened to see Gerard's blog post on issues with Malayalam Wikipedia Unicode upgrade to 5.1 http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2010/12/malayalam-enigma.html The issue is very complex. There were heated debates around this topic in Unicode Indic Mailing list for years. In short the issue is about dual encoding- representing a letter using two types of unicode character codes. Unicode's decision to bring the second encoding in standard was widely debated and opposed mainly by FOSS developer community from Malayalam. Unicode announced the dual encoding scheme without canonical equivalence definition in 2005 and reverted it when scholars and developers opposed it. The same proposal again introduced. Foss community, language scholars protested the proposal. The SMC community submitted a document with 17 reasons why dual encoding should not be introduced.- see http://wiki.smc.org.in/images/2/23/SMC_Unicode_5.1.pdf Similarly a seminar conducted to discuss the issue by University of Kerala opposed the proposal. see http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080131071131/fci/images/1/19/Report_of_Workshop.pdf f f But Unicode technical consortium did not bother to answer both of these reports and went ahead with the decision in Unicode 5.1. The dual encoding scheme is with out any canonical equivalence definition. Since it is not there in standard I doubt whether Operating systems will implement it, not to mention about search engines. Since the new encoding scheme is defined without backward compatibility, or against unicode's stability policy, Malayalam FOSS community decided not to implement it until issues are resolved and continuing with unicode 5.0 encoding. Malayalam news
[Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wiki workshop in Eastern University, SriLanka
Hi, Tamil Wikipedians from SriLanka conducted a Tamil Wikipedia Workshop at Eastern University of Srilanka on 28th December. Around 55 people including lecturers, employees, students, visitors from nearby institutions participated. This is the first organized Wiki meetup / workshop in SriLanka and we plan to conduct more such workshops in near future. Photos from the event: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=269877id=647387355l=b22c36a4a6 Ravi ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Tamil Wiki workshop in Eastern University, SriLanka
Congratulations! This is a milestone in the history of the Wikimedia movement. anirudh 00 91 9328712208 On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Ravishankar ravidre...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Tamil Wikipedians from SriLanka conducted a Tamil Wikipedia Workshop at Eastern University of Srilanka on 28th December. Around 55 people including lecturers, employees, students, visitors from nearby institutions participated. This is the first organized Wiki meetup / workshop in SriLanka and we plan to conduct more such workshops in near future. Photos from the event: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=269877id=647387355l=b22c36a4a6 Ravi ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Have some editing queries, where should I go ?
Shirish, https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l would be the best place to discuss this issue. Once you're totally convinced it should have that level of security, you can file a request at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ - Sundar That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted. - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture - Original Message From: shirish शिरीष shirisha...@gmail.com To: wikimediaindia wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tue, December 28, 2010 10:49:06 PM Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Have some editing queries, where should I go ? Hi all, Have some editing queries, which is a good list to use for that ? I do understand that this Mailing list (ML) is probably gonna be used for co-ordination of various things rather than talking perhaps about wikipedia or wikimedia edits. I do have one query though that is important enough perhaps to be posted on this list. While I was on Wikipedia today, I went to my user account page and got this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MergeAccount and I saw that it doesn't have any sort of https:// to it. I stopped there itself but shouldn't it be a good idea to have https:// or what do people think ? -- Regards, Shirish Agarwal शिरीष अग्रवाल My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/ http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com 065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
