[Wikimediaindia-l] Hindi Wikipedia set to cross 1 lakh article milestone

2011-05-10 Thread CherianTinu Abraham 
Hi,
  If you have not noticed, Hindi Wikipedia set to cross 1 lakh
article milestone in a very short while ...Advance congratulations on the
efforts of Hindi Wikipedians.
Currently it has over 96,600+ articles.

http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics

There were approximately 53,000 articles on 1 Jan 2010 and 58,000 in 31 Dec
2010, with a leap of 7000+ articles in 12 months.
During Jan-May 2011, the increase was a staggering 38,000+ articles.

Some other stats here http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediaHI.htm

Just curious to know, can somebody share some light on the top article
creators during this time ?

Regards
Tinu Cherian
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] IMPORTANT: Mumbai X to discuss WikiConference India 2011

2011-05-10 Thread Bishakha Datta 
On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 8:01 PM,  wrote:

>  Hiya,
>
> As you may be aware, at Mumbai IX, the community discussed an idea that was
> floated some time ago on this mailing list - to hold an Indian National
> WikiConference in Mumbai around November 2011. We invited Pune to co-host
> the event - they have been positive and will discuss the issue during their
> meet-up on 14 May 2011. The India Chapter Committee have been informed as
> well, they too seemed positive and will be sending a representative to the
> meeting in Pune. Kundan and myself will be representing the Mumbai Community
> at that meet which will also be attended by Bishakha (Foundation Trustee)
> and Hisham (Consultant, Wikimedia India Programs).
>
>
Just clarifying: while I had said I would be at the meet above, something
urgent has come up, so I won't be able to attend. Really sorry about this.

Look forward to hearing the outcome.
Bishakha
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[Wikimediaindia-l] Interview with Hisham

2011-05-10 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
Hisham was so cool as to answer 10 questions I put in front of him. I think
it is an interesting read. I hope you do too.
Thanks,
   GerardM

http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2011/05/interview-with-hisham-mundol.html
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Press]: The Indian Express : "2, 155 images uploaded in record 23 days"

2011-05-10 Thread Anivar Aravind 
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 8:39 AM, CherianTinu Abraham
 wrote:
> The newspaper had not contacted me or possibly any ml Wikipedians directly
> for this article.
> There is a general misconception, among general public or media folks, that
> the images that are free to use are not copyrighted.
> Aniwar, How do you think we can create a general awareness to all ?

I think it is better to create a FAQ entry in the current FAQ,  that
addresses  permissible copyright/ copyleft wikipedia uses with answers
to common misconceptions .
We need to link that question with the term copyleft in Press-releases
, while using the term copyleft

And FAQ entry will help  to get it circulated among wikipedians, when
they  are using it on meetups & workshops

Anivar

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Wikiml-l] [Press]: The Indian Express : "2, 155 images uploaded in record 23 days"

2011-05-10 Thread Moka Pantages 
I know there was interest in writing a blog post about the Malayalam maps
project, so maybe combine both projects into a post specifically addressing
this issue? Then you can send that post to the media outlets who are getting
it wrong, as well as proactively reach out to other media as well?

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Shiju Alex wrote:

> According to me these type of issues arise due to the lack of awareness
> about copyright related topics among press reporters. I assume the reporter
> made this story based on my blog post published at,
> http://shijualex.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/malayalam-loves-wikimedia-event-2011-april-report/
>
> In the first paragraph of the blog post I mentioned:
>
> Malayalam wikimedians have organised a photo event from *2011 April 02
>> – 25* *to create more awareness about copyleft-licensed images*,
>> wikimedia commons, and to attract more Malayalam speaking people to the
>> wikimedia movement.
>>
>
>
> But when the reporter made the story it became:
>
>
> *the programme ‘Malayalam Loves Wikimedia’ was organised to create
>> awareness about copyright-free images, Wikimedia Commons and to attract
>> more Malayalam speaking users to the Wikimedia movement.*
>>
>
>
> We couldn't do much here. And for this story, reporters didn't contacted
> any of us. So it is not wikimedian's fault.
>
> Some awareness  programs can be planned for press reporters to address this
> issue.
>
>
> Shiju
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:09 AM, CherianTinu Abraham <
> tinucher...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The newspaper had not contacted me or possibly any ml Wikipedians directly
>> for this article.
>>
>> There is a general misconception, among general public or media folks,
>> that the images that are free to use are not copyrighted.
>>
>> Aniwar, How do you think we can create a general awareness to all ?
>>
>> -Tinu Cherian
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Anivar Aravind > > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:50 AM, CherianTinu Abraham
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> > The 2,155 copyright-free images uploaded are on diverse topics.
>>>
>>> As i mentioned earlier this copyright-free tag coming up with most of
>>> the reports on wikipedia is frustrating. We need to have a proper
>>> strategy to address  it. Most of the images uploaded in Malayalam
>>> Loves wikipedia event are not copyright free
>>>
>>>
>>> Anivar
>>>
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>>
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>>
>
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>


-- 
Cheers,
Moka

Moka Pantages
415.839.6885 x 635
@moka
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Wikiml-l] [Press]: The Indian Express : "2, 155 images uploaded in record 23 days"

2011-05-10 Thread Shiju Alex 
According to me these type of issues arise due to the lack of awareness
about copyright related topics among press reporters. I assume the reporter
made this story based on my blog post published at,
http://shijualex.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/malayalam-loves-wikimedia-event-2011-april-report/

In the first paragraph of the blog post I mentioned:

Malayalam wikimedians have organised a photo event from *2011 April 02 –
> 25* *to create more awareness about copyleft-licensed images*, wikimedia
> commons, and to attract more Malayalam speaking people to the wikimedia
> movement.
>


But when the reporter made the story it became:

*the programme ‘Malayalam Loves Wikimedia’ was organised to create awareness
> about copyright-free images, Wikimedia Commons and to attract more
> Malayalam speaking users to the Wikimedia movement.*
>


We couldn't do much here. And for this story, reporters didn't contacted any
of us. So it is not wikimedian's fault.

Some awareness  programs can be planned for press reporters to address this
issue.


Shiju

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:09 AM, CherianTinu Abraham
wrote:

> The newspaper had not contacted me or possibly any ml Wikipedians directly
> for this article.
>
> There is a general misconception, among general public or media folks, that
> the images that are free to use are not copyrighted.
>
> Aniwar, How do you think we can create a general awareness to all ?
>
> -Tinu Cherian
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Anivar Aravind 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:50 AM, CherianTinu Abraham
>>  wrote:
>>
>> > The 2,155 copyright-free images uploaded are on diverse topics.
>>
>> As i mentioned earlier this copyright-free tag coming up with most of
>> the reports on wikipedia is frustrating. We need to have a proper
>> strategy to address  it. Most of the images uploaded in Malayalam
>> Loves wikipedia event are not copyright free
>>
>>
>> Anivar
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Press]: The Indian Express : "2, 155 images uploaded in record 23 days"

2011-05-10 Thread CherianTinu Abraham 
The newspaper had not contacted me or possibly any ml Wikipedians directly
for this article.

There is a general misconception, among general public or media folks, that
the images that are free to use are not copyrighted.

Aniwar, How do you think we can create a general awareness to all ?

-Tinu Cherian

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Anivar Aravind wrote:

> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:50 AM, CherianTinu Abraham
>  wrote:
>
> > The 2,155 copyright-free images uploaded are on diverse topics.
>
> As i mentioned earlier this copyright-free tag coming up with most of
> the reports on wikipedia is frustrating. We need to have a proper
> strategy to address  it. Most of the images uploaded in Malayalam
> Loves wikipedia event are not copyright free
>
>
> Anivar
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Press]: The Indian Express : "2, 155 images uploaded in record 23 days"

2011-05-10 Thread Anivar Aravind 
On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 7:50 AM, CherianTinu Abraham
 wrote:

> The 2,155 copyright-free images uploaded are on diverse topics.

As i mentioned earlier this copyright-free tag coming up with most of
the reports on wikipedia is frustrating. We need to have a proper
strategy to address  it. Most of the images uploaded in Malayalam
Loves wikipedia event are not copyright free


Anivar

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[Wikimediaindia-l] [Press]: The Indian Express : "2, 155 images uploaded in record 23 days"

2011-05-10 Thread CherianTinu Abraham 
*The Indian Express : "2,155 images uploaded in record 23 days"*
http://expressbuzz.com/cities/thiruvananthapuram/2155-images-uploaded-in-record-23-days/273120.html

*The Malayalam Wiki Community is in high spirits.*
*The programme, ‘Malayalam Loves Wikimedia’ event organised as part of
**improving
the database as well as to attract more Malayalam speaking users to the
Wikimedia movement is a big hit.*
*As many as 2,155 copyright-free licensed images have been contributed to
Wikimedia Commons within a short period of 23 days. Wikimedia Commons is an
online repository of free-use images, sound and other media files. Inspired
by the success of Wikimedia events such as ‘London loves Wikimedia’, the
programme ‘Malayalam Loves Wikimedia’ was organised to create awareness
about copyright-free images, Wikimedia Commons and to attract more Malayalam
speaking users to the Wikimedia movement.*
*
*
*As many as 75 Malayalis, majority of them non-wikimedians, participated in
the event which was organised between April 2 and April 25.*
*The wikimedians selected April considering the Assembly election at that
time.*
*According to them, the election was the perfect time to capture the images
of the notable politicians and important personalities of Kerala.  *
*The speciality of the event was that many non-wikimedians, who were eager
to contribute to the Wikimedia, got an opportunity to be part of it.*
*
*
*The 2,155 copyright-free images uploaded are on diverse topics. This
includes images of famous personalities, buildings, places, equipment and
even popular snacks.*
*Second standard student Sai K Shanmugam was the youngest contributor.*
*He provided 14 images to the Wikimedia Commons.*
*The highest number of uploads was on April 25, the last day of the event.
 As many as 343 images were uploaded on that day.*
*
*
*“This is not the first time Malayalam wikimedians are contributing to the
Wikimedia Commons. During the past few years we have contributed more to
6,000 free-licensed images to Wikimedia Commons. Through this event we have
added another 2,000. We are planning for more topic-based events in the near
future,” the organisers said.*

Regards
Tinu Cherian
http://wikimedia.in/wiki/In_the_news#May_2011
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[Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd:happy birthday, Wikipedias

2011-05-10 Thread CherianTinu Abraham 
Just a small piece of history of the Global Wikipedia movement, see below
mail thread. Thought to share it here also.

For those who are wondering about the origin of Indic / Indian subcontinent
language Wikipedias, here it is.

*2002*
*June*: *Assamese*,*Punjabi*, *Nepali*, *Oriya( Odia)*
*December* : *Malayalam*

*2003*
*February: Bhojpuri
May: Marathi
June: Kannada
July: Hindi, Kashmiri
September: Tamil
December: Telugu, Gujarati, Sanskrit, Sindhi*

*2004*
*January: Bengali, Urdu, Sinhala*

Regards
Tinu Cherian

-- Forwarded message --
From: phoebe ayers 
Date: Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:43 AM
Subject: [Foundation-l] happy birthday, Wikipedias
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List 


Tomorrow (May 11) is another anniversary date: it's been 10 years
since the first group of non-English Wikipedias came online.
Originally with spelled-out names rather than language codes, these
sites were:

catalan.wikipedia.com
chinese.wikipedia.com
esperanto.wikipedia.com
french.wikipedia.com
deutsche.wikipedia.com
hebrew.wikipedia.com
italian.wikipedia.com
japanese.wikipedia.com
portuguese.wikipedia.com
spanish.wikipedia.com
russian.wikipedia.com

(from http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2001-May/000116.html)

The idea of having Wikipedias in multiple languages came from Jimbo in
March 2001 (
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2001-March/48.html);
note that the original German Wikipedia was actually set up at that
time, making it the second-oldest Wikipedia. Though the idea of using
two-letter domain codes was first raised then, after the above sites
were brought online in May there was further discussion, and the sites
were switched to two-letter codes a few days later:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2001-May/000132.html.

Happy tenth birthday, Wikipedias! (and many more!)  May all of our
language editions flourish.

-- phoebe


--
* I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers
 gmail.com *

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[Wikimediaindia-l] IMPORTANT: Mumbai X to discuss WikiConference India 2011

2011-05-10 Thread wheredevelsdare 

Hiya,

As you may be aware, at Mumbai IX, the community discussed 
an idea that was floated some time ago on this mailing list - to hold an
 Indian National WikiConference in Mumbai around November 2011. We 
invited Pune to co-host the event - they have been positive and will 
discuss the issue during their meet-up on 14 May 2011. The India Chapter
 Committee have been informed as well, they too seemed positive and will
 be sending a representative to the meeting in Pune. Kundan and myself 
will be representing the Mumbai Community at that meet which will also 
be attended by Bishakha (Foundation Trustee) and Hisham (Consultant, 
Wikimedia India Programs).

As a follow up of the above mentioned 
event, Mumbai X will be held at the offices of Pinstorm (Santacruz) on 
21 May 2011 (Saturday). We humbly request everyone from the Mumbai 
Community to attend this important meetup as we hope to kick-start the 
organisation of the above event on this day. Those attending kindly sign
 up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Mumbai/Mumbai10 

Looking forward to seeing a massive turnout at the meetups and hope this sparks 
local interest in offline Wikipedia activities.

Kind Regards,
User:AroundTheGlobe   ___
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Copyright problems of images from India

2011-05-10 Thread Achal Prabhala 
Bala's point, about not all Indian religious iconography - of any 
religion - being in the public domain is spot on. However, as with a lot 
of religious iconography (though perhaps not with Raja Ravi Varma 
specifically), the intent of the creation in the first place is 
propagation, and as a result there is widespread public use of these 
works almost as if they were public domain works in the strict legal 
sense - which they are not. The analogy might work best with, say, 
evangelical pamphlets from a religion or sect; if the point of these is 
to be given away, the copyright holders are likely to be encouraging of 
their piracy, even if they haven't formally notified for the pamphlet to 
be put in the legal public domain.

Aside from the point of authorship not always being credited (the 
reasons for which are too numerous to list, but which involve all the 
usual problems around collaborative creativity - the structure of 
religious art, monuments and iconography, across all religions, is a lot 
like Wikipedia except perhaps with a lot more hierarchy) I think the 
interesting point here is intent vs legal status.

I do think (intuitively) that for some, not all, religious iconography, 
the spirit in which they were produced is exactly similar to the terms 
of CC BY SA or the GFDL; it's just that people didn't have these 
licenses in the 10th century or even most parts of the 20th :) The 
problem is determining the intention and conjoining it with a differing 
legal status in the litigious world of today, for which we perhaps have 
to think more creatively and boldly. (Perhaps there is a way to hold all 
such images in one place and seek public domain approval from related 
religious bodies in India for their use?)

(A minor aside is that India's new copyright law, to be effective soon, 
increases the copyright term of photographic works from life of the 
creator + 25 years to life + 60 - on par with other literary and 
artistic works.)

So, I can't see any easy solution here except for determining the 
antecedents of an image, and establishing that the image has lived past 
its copyright term.


On Tuesday 10 May 2011 04:37 PM, Bala Jeyaraman wrote:
> 1) >>Ayyappan, a popular god of Kerala, has his image circulated 
> everywhere on the plant with no proof of copyrights. It makes sense to 
> believe that this image is not eligible for copyright because 
> Hindu deities are all common property,
>
> i have to disagree with this. All images of Hindu deities are not 
> public property. Most of the popular images were done by painters some 
> time in the immediate past - Ravi varma's paintings form the base for 
> many deity images. Similarly there are many unknown temple artists, 
> who have gone uncredite because of our practice of gross insensitivity 
> to others' copyright. Claiming that deity images are not eligible for 
> copyright is wrong. They do have copyright and unless there is iron 
> clad proof of publication, dont decalre them to be in public domain. 
> The fairuse clause is there for cases like this.
>
>
> 2) While i understand what sreejith is saying, repeated copyright 
> violations in commons by Indian uploaders is mainly to blame for this 
> backlash. In Ta wiki and in commons, i have to repeat many times to 
> people that "everything that comes out of google image search is not 
> free". In my experience, about half the people react defensively to 
> such advice and reflexively claim the image is "own work" and they 
> "took it". They do not like being pointed out they are wrong and thus 
> damage the reputation of Indian uploaders further. Many of the regular 
> commons users thus become immediately suspicious when a new indian 
> user claims that an image is "own work". Even in the outreach programs 
> i participated, people listen to me drone about how taking images of 
> google image search is not ok and do the same the immediately after. 
> This issue is not restricted to Indian users, but is a major problem 
> for us. The only way to deal with this is a relentless copyright 
> awareness campaign for Indian users.
>
> 3) Images of people who died prior to 1951. Here too the case is not 
> clear. Many photos of such people are reconstructive work done 
> post-1951. Colourisation of black and white pictures is a major 
> concern. I am still not clear, if colourisation passes the originality 
> threshold and becomes a original work on its own. If so, then such a 
> work cannot be claimed as PD.
>
> Personally i add a ton of descriptive information and long arguments 
> to prove PD in india and in case of my own images, i always upload 
> with full resolution and metadata. It is a sad bad situation, but the 
> root cause is relative ignorance of Indians (including me) about 
> copyright.
>
> regards
> Bala
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Shiju Alex  > wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am forwarding the below mail on behalf of a Malayalam wikipedi

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] [Foundation-l] Fwd: Copyright problems of images from India

2011-05-10 Thread Achal Prabhala 
Sreejith's point is that proving the date of authorship in commonly used 
religious iconography is difficult; it's also difficult to work through 
the dates of derivatives of the 'original' work in order to establish 
which versions have what period - if any - of copyright validity left.

For what it's worth, Indian copyright law does have provisions to 
address orphan works. It's just that the provisions (linked to below my 
text) are rather cumbersome, and ultimately do not result in a public 
domain license being applied on the work even if it is found that the 
author is untraceable or doesn't exist; it merely results in a license 
to the individual who applied to use the work, possibly even the payment 
of royalty to the 'public account.'

Current Indian copyright law has provisions around orphan works for 
'Indian works' only (where questions of citizenship, as you described 
below, could play some part), but the law is about to be amended, and 
the new copyright law, effective very shortly, applies the orphan works 
provisions to all/any works vis-a-vis their use/effect in India, so this 
question will soon be moot.

But the larger point is that unless one can definitively show that a 
work is out of copyright in terms of years since published or by the 
terms of an alternative copyright license, the law does not offer a way 
to deposit that work in the public domain.

Current Indian copyright law (with suggested amendments from government 
and civil society): See s.31A - 
http://www.altlawforum.org/intellectual-property/advocacy/proposed-amendment-to-the-copyright-act-1957

Proposed amended copyright law (soon to be tabled in parliament): See 
s.31A - *http://tinyurl.com/3tb7drx*


On Tuesday 10 May 2011 07:12 PM, FT2 wrote:
> Why would the creator's citizenship, or the place of its creation, be
> decisive?  The works of an Indian citizen are granted copyright under US law
> in the United States, on a parity with the works of a US or any other
> citizen, even if copyright has expired or still continues in India -- and it
> is US law that governs Wikimedia.
>
> FT2
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 12:07 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Welcome to the problem of Orphan Works. what you have to show is that
>> either of the following is true?
>>
>> (i) the author of which is a citizen of India; or
>> (ii) which is first published in India; or
>> (iii) the author of which, in the case of an unpublished work, is, at the
>> time of the making of the work, a citizen of India;
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Copyright problems of images from India

2011-05-10 Thread wheredevelsdare 
;hardly cares.
> 
> As you can see, it is getting quite difficult to maintain images from India
> in commons. India is a country which has only started to use Internet less
> than a decade ago and we still do not have many of our countries' books or
> sources of information online. So any image from India which gets nominated
> for deletion in Wikimedia Commons get deleted for absence of proof. Commons
> is ruled by *precautionary principle*, where in they are not willing to take
> any risks on copyright and will delete any image for which anyone has
> doubts. This is in contrary to local wikipedia projects in India where it is
> rules by the *good faith principle* where we will trust the uploader and it
> becomes the responsibility of the nominator to prove that the image has
> false copyright claim.
> 
> This issue is beginning to hurt the contents from India. If we can do
> something, its time we act immediately. If we are just going to just spent
> out time discussing about it, the pictures of all Hindu gods and people who
> died before independence might get deleted by that time.
> 
> Regards,
> Sreejith K.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/attachments/20110510/c986b84c/attachment-0001.htm
>  
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 16:37:12 +0530
> From: Bala Jeyaraman 
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Copyright problems of images from
>   India
> To: Wikimedia India Community list
>   
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 1) >>Ayyappan, a popular god of Kerala, has his image circulated everywhere
> on the plant with no proof of copyrights. It makes sense to believe that
> this image is not eligible for copyright because Hindu deities are all
> common property,
> 
> i have to disagree with this. All images of Hindu deities are not public
> property. Most of the popular images were done by painters some time in the
> immediate past - Ravi varma's paintings form the base for many deity images.
> Similarly there are many unknown temple artists, who have gone uncredite
> because of our practice of gross insensitivity to others' copyright.
> Claiming that deity images are not eligible for copyright is wrong. They do
> have copyright and unless there is iron clad proof of publication, dont
> decalre them to be in public domain. The fairuse clause is there for cases
> like this.
> 
> 
> 2) While i understand what sreejith is saying, repeated copyright violations
> in commons by Indian uploaders is mainly to blame for this backlash. In Ta
> wiki and in commons, i have to repeat many times to people that "everything
> that comes out of google image search is not free". In my experience, about
> half the people react defensively to such advice and reflexively claim the
> image is "own work" and they "took it". They do not like being pointed out
> they are wrong and thus damage the reputation of Indian uploaders further.
> Many of the regular commons users thus become immediately suspicious when a
> new indian user claims that an image is "own work". Even in the outreach
> programs i participated, people listen to me drone about how taking images
> of google image search is not ok and do the same the immediately after. This
> issue is not restricted to Indian users, but is a major problem for us. The
> only way to deal with this is a relentless copyright awareness campaign for
> Indian users.
> 
> 3) Images of people who died prior to 1951. Here too the case is not clear.
> Many photos of such people are reconstructive work done post-1951.
> Colourisation of black and white pictures is a major concern. I am still not
> clear, if colourisation passes the originality threshold and becomes a
> original work on its own. If so, then such a work cannot be claimed as PD.
> 
> Personally i add a ton of descriptive information and long arguments to
> prove PD in india and in case of my own images, i always upload with full
> resolution and metadata. It is a sad bad situation, but the root cause is
> relative ignorance of Indians (including me) about copyright.
> 
> regards
> Bala
> 
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Shiju Alex wrote:
> 
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I am forwarding the below mail on behalf of a Malayalam wikipedian who is
> > very active in Wikimedia Commons.
> >
> > Of late it is becoming very difficult for many Wikimedians from India to
> > contribute to Wikimedia Commons especially if they are uploading historical
> > images which are in PD.

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Copyright problems of images from India

2011-05-10 Thread Sreejith K. 
All paintings of Hindu deities are not copyright free. There are clauses for
it. As per Indian copyright act, only paintings that were published 60 years
before are in public domain. Now the question here is how to prove the age
of the painting. Lets take a different example, may be Lord Ram or Lord
Shiva. How can we prove the age of the painting? In one discussion, a
commons admin asked me to find a book that was published 60 years back in
which this image is included. I need not explain the difficulty in getting
such a proof.

Similar case with photographs of images before 1943. Colorization does not
add new copyright, unless they add changes to it which makes it
significantly different from the original. Now, how do you prove the images
of such photographs? These photographs were taken during their lifetime and
probably belongs to their family when it was taken. As per current rules in
Commons, the family will have to send OTRS saying that the image belongs to
them. Even then, someone could say that the photographer is not from their
family and so the OTRS cannot be accepted. See this example ->
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_for_undeletion#File:Varghese_Palakkappillil.jpg

There are a lot of copyright violation photos uploaded to Commons. In
between those deletions, a lot of genuine photographs get deleted for lack
of proof. The concern here is on how to save them.

- Sreejith K.


On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Bala Jeyaraman wrote:

> 1) >>Ayyappan, a popular god of Kerala, has his image circulated
> everywhere on the plant with no proof of copyrights. It makes sense to
> believe that this image is not eligible for copyright because
> Hindu deities are all common property,
>
> i have to disagree with this. All images of Hindu deities are not public
> property. Most of the popular images were done by painters some time in the
> immediate past - Ravi varma's paintings form the base for many deity images.
> Similarly there are many unknown temple artists, who have gone uncredite
> because of our practice of gross insensitivity to others' copyright.
> Claiming that deity images are not eligible for copyright is wrong. They do
> have copyright and unless there is iron clad proof of publication, dont
> decalre them to be in public domain. The fairuse clause is there for cases
> like this.
>
>
> 2) While i understand what sreejith is saying, repeated copyright
> violations in commons by Indian uploaders is mainly to blame for this
> backlash. In Ta wiki and in commons, i have to repeat many times to people
> that "everything that comes out of google image search is not free". In my
> experience, about half the people react defensively to such advice and
> reflexively claim the image is "own work" and they "took it". They do not
> like being pointed out they are wrong and thus damage the reputation of
> Indian uploaders further. Many of the regular commons users thus become
> immediately suspicious when a new indian user claims that an image is "own
> work". Even in the outreach programs i participated, people listen to me
> drone about how taking images of google image search is not ok and do the
> same the immediately after. This issue is not restricted to Indian users,
> but is a major problem for us. The only way to deal with this is a
> relentless copyright awareness campaign for Indian users.
>
> 3) Images of people who died prior to 1951. Here too the case is not clear.
> Many photos of such people are reconstructive work done post-1951.
> Colourisation of black and white pictures is a major concern. I am still not
> clear, if colourisation passes the originality threshold and becomes a
> original work on its own. If so, then such a work cannot be claimed as PD.
>
> Personally i add a ton of descriptive information and long arguments to
> prove PD in india and in case of my own images, i always upload with full
> resolution and metadata. It is a sad bad situation, but the root cause is
> relative ignorance of Indians (including me) about copyright.
>
> regards
> Bala
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Shiju Alex wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I am forwarding the below mail on behalf of a Malayalam wikipedian who is
>> very active in Wikimedia Commons.
>>
>> Of late it is becoming very difficult for many Wikimedians from India to
>> contribute to Wikimedia Commons especially if they are uploading historical
>> images which are in PD.  We are facing lot of issues (and many a times
>> unnecessary controversies also) with the historic images in PD, images of
>> wall paintings and statues, and so on. Please see the below mail in which
>> Sreejith citing various examples.
>>
>> It is almost impossible for the uploaders from India to show proof of the
>> century old images of  Hindu Gods and Goddesses. The current policies of
>> Commons are not permitting many of the PD images from India citing all sorts
>> of policies which might be relevant only in the western world. With these
>> type

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Copyright problems of images from India

2011-05-10 Thread Bala Jeyaraman 
1) >>Ayyappan, a popular god of Kerala, has his image circulated everywhere
on the plant with no proof of copyrights. It makes sense to believe that
this image is not eligible for copyright because Hindu deities are all
common property,

i have to disagree with this. All images of Hindu deities are not public
property. Most of the popular images were done by painters some time in the
immediate past - Ravi varma's paintings form the base for many deity images.
Similarly there are many unknown temple artists, who have gone uncredite
because of our practice of gross insensitivity to others' copyright.
Claiming that deity images are not eligible for copyright is wrong. They do
have copyright and unless there is iron clad proof of publication, dont
decalre them to be in public domain. The fairuse clause is there for cases
like this.


2) While i understand what sreejith is saying, repeated copyright violations
in commons by Indian uploaders is mainly to blame for this backlash. In Ta
wiki and in commons, i have to repeat many times to people that "everything
that comes out of google image search is not free". In my experience, about
half the people react defensively to such advice and reflexively claim the
image is "own work" and they "took it". They do not like being pointed out
they are wrong and thus damage the reputation of Indian uploaders further.
Many of the regular commons users thus become immediately suspicious when a
new indian user claims that an image is "own work". Even in the outreach
programs i participated, people listen to me drone about how taking images
of google image search is not ok and do the same the immediately after. This
issue is not restricted to Indian users, but is a major problem for us. The
only way to deal with this is a relentless copyright awareness campaign for
Indian users.

3) Images of people who died prior to 1951. Here too the case is not clear.
Many photos of such people are reconstructive work done post-1951.
Colourisation of black and white pictures is a major concern. I am still not
clear, if colourisation passes the originality threshold and becomes a
original work on its own. If so, then such a work cannot be claimed as PD.

Personally i add a ton of descriptive information and long arguments to
prove PD in india and in case of my own images, i always upload with full
resolution and metadata. It is a sad bad situation, but the root cause is
relative ignorance of Indians (including me) about copyright.

regards
Bala

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Shiju Alex wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I am forwarding the below mail on behalf of a Malayalam wikipedian who is
> very active in Wikimedia Commons.
>
> Of late it is becoming very difficult for many Wikimedians from India to
> contribute to Wikimedia Commons especially if they are uploading historical
> images which are in PD.  We are facing lot of issues (and many a times
> unnecessary controversies also) with the historic images in PD, images of
> wall paintings and statues, and so on. Please see the below mail in which
> Sreejith citing various examples.
>
> It is almost impossible for the uploaders from India to show proof of the
> century old images of  Hindu Gods and Goddesses. The current policies of
> Commons are not permitting many of the PD images from India citing all sorts
> of policies which might be relevant only in the western world. With these
> type of policies we are going to have serious issues when we try to go for
> GLAM type events.
>
> But I also do not know the solution for this issue. Requesting constructive
> discussion.
>
>
> Shiju Alex
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Sreejith K. 
> Date: Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:03 PM
> Subject: Copyright problems of images from India
> To: Shiju Alex 
>
>
> Shiju,
>
> As you might be aware already, we are having trouble keeping historical
> images about India in Wikimedia commons. This pertains mostly to images
> about Hindu gods and people who died before 1947.
>
> Please see the below examples:
>
>- File:Narayana 
> Guru.jpg -
>This is the image of Sree Narayana 
> Guru,
>a Hindu saint, social reformer and is even considered a god by certain
>castes in Kerala. This image has been tagged as an image with No source.
>Narayana Guru expired in 1928 and considering the conditions in which India
>was in during that period and before, it is very difficult to get an image
>source online. Most active Wikipedians does not have access or information
>on how old the image is or where a source of it can be found. Any 
> photograph
>published before 1941 in India is in public domain as per Indian copyright
>act. Common sense says that this image meets this criteria because the
>person was long lead before 1941, but we still need proof of the first
>publishing date. Deleting this image on grounds that no

[Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: Copyright problems of images from India

2011-05-10 Thread Shiju Alex 
Dear All,

I am forwarding the below mail on behalf of a Malayalam wikipedian who is
very active in Wikimedia Commons.

Of late it is becoming very difficult for many Wikimedians from India to
contribute to Wikimedia Commons especially if they are uploading historical
images which are in PD.  We are facing lot of issues (and many a times
unnecessary controversies also) with the historic images in PD, images of
wall paintings and statues, and so on. Please see the below mail in which
Sreejith citing various examples.

It is almost impossible for the uploaders from India to show proof of the
century old images of  Hindu Gods and Goddesses. The current policies of
Commons are not permitting many of the PD images from India citing all sorts
of policies which might be relevant only in the western world. With these
type of policies we are going to have serious issues when we try to go for
GLAM type events.

But I also do not know the solution for this issue. Requesting constructive
discussion.


Shiju Alex



-- Forwarded message --
From: Sreejith K. 
Date: Thu, May 5, 2011 at 12:03 PM
Subject: Copyright problems of images from India
To: Shiju Alex 


Shiju,

As you might be aware already, we are having trouble keeping historical
images about India in Wikimedia commons. This pertains mostly to images
about Hindu gods and people who died before 1947.

Please see the below examples:

   - File:Narayana
Guru.jpg -
   This is the image of Sree Narayana
Guru,
   a Hindu saint, social reformer and is even considered a god by certain
   castes in Kerala. This image has been tagged as an image with No source.
   Narayana Guru expired in 1928 and considering the conditions in which India
   was in during that period and before, it is very difficult to get an image
   source online. Most active Wikipedians does not have access or information
   on how old the image is or where a source of it can be found. Any photograph
   published before 1941 in India is in public domain as per Indian copyright
   act. Common sense says that this image meets this criteria because the
   person was long lead before 1941, but we still need proof of the first
   publishing date. Deleting this image on grounds that no source could be
   found will only reduce the informative values of all the articles which this
   image is included in.
   - File:Aravana.JPG: This image has already been deleted, but you can see
   the amount of discussion that went in before deleting it. See
Commons:Deletion
   
requests/File:Aravana.JPG.
   (An almost similar image can be found
here.)This
   image as put for deletion because it had the image of Swami
Ayyappanin it. Ayyappan,
a popular god of Kerala, has his image circulated
   everywhere on the plant with no proof of copyrights. It makes sense to
   believe that this image is not eligible for copyright because
   Hindu deities are all common property, but again, Commons need proof that
   the image is in public domain. This is the same case with all Hindu
   gods/goddesses. The images can only be kept in Commons if the uploader can
   provide proof that the images are in public domain.
   - File:Kottarathil
sankunni.jpg:
   This is a picture of Kottarathil
Sankunni,
   the author of the famous book
Aithiyamaala.
   Kottarathil Sankunni died in 1937 and so it makes sense to believe that this
   image was created on or before 1937 and thus falls in Public Domain. But
   some people in Commons is refusing to believe that and is asking for proof.
   Now it becomes the responsibility of the uploader to show proof that this
   image was published 60 years before today. The editor who nominated the
   image for deletion is on the safer side because it is not his responsibility
   to prove that the image is a copyright violation. So long story short,
   anyone can nominate any image for copyright violation and it becomes the
   uploaders responsibility to prove that its not. The deletion nomination need
   not be accompanied with a reason for disbelief.
   - File:Anoop
Menon.jpg:
   This is the picture of Anoop
Menon,
   a popular actor from Kerala. A discussion is going on about the uploaders
   credibility whether he is the original photographer of this image. Please
   see File talk:Anoop
Menon.jpg.
   The reason for doubting the uploader is simple. This image has professional
   quality and so the u

[Wikimediaindia-l] 13th Meetup of Wikipedians in [[Pune]], [[Maharashtra]] - please note details and register

2011-05-10 Thread Ashwin Baindur 
A reminder for the 13th Meetup of Wikipedians in [[Pune]], [[Maharashtra]].
Please see the[[Wikipedia:Meetup/Pune/Pune13|meetup page]]  for details and
indicate your attendance.
The intended purpose of the meetup is:
 '''to discuss the Campus Ambassador Program and forthcoming
WikiConference 2011'''.
''Highlights - '''Hisham Mundol''', National Director, India Program &
'''Bishakha
Datta''', Global Trustee, Wikimedia Foundation will be present for the
meetup.''


[[User:AshLin|AshLin]] ([[User talk:AshLin|talk]]) 04:13, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Warm regards,

Ashwin Baindur
--
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