Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Many user groups instead of One Chapter?
On Sep 6, 2014 8:03 AM, "Arun Ganesh" wrote: > > > About a year ago there was some interest in creating a Mediawiki India group but met with opposition from the chapter. > > Is there currently a restriction on creating user groups independent of the chapter? It would be good to know what this is? > Do I need permission from the chapter to start a Wikipedia editors club in my neighbourhood? To answer just this simple, technical question: no, there is no restriction, and any group is welcome to seek recognition independently of the chapter, and does not need its permission. See here: https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Step-by-step_user_group_creation_guide As Pradeep notes, the Affiliations Committee will invite comment from the chapter as a courtesy, but it is ultimately strictly up to AffCom to decide. It is also true that historically, the chapter EC has strongly(!) opposed the recognition of any other group in India, and swayed AffCom into referring the applicants to be a SIG within the chapter instead of proceeding with user group recognition. Disappointingly, this never happened. Happily, we now hear a different tune from the EC, so I'm confident it won't stand in the way of any prospective user groups. I agree it's perfectly possible to have regional or language focuses in groups within the chapter; we haven't seen it happen so far, but it's certainly one possibility. Ultimately it's about identity and decision making, and it's up to each group to determine whether they're comfortable with their decisions or activities being subject to the chapter EC or not, or whether they're interested in operating under the national-level identity of Wikimedia India. (Remember some Indian languages have significant speaker bases outside India.) Let me clearly state that the Foundation is agnostic about these questions, and is simply interested in supporting all communities in the forms most effective in their context. A. ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Many user groups instead of One Chapter?
Hi, Doing a bit more analysis on your suggestion. On 7 September 2014 13:15, Pradeep Mohandas wrote: > > The activity of the Chapter and the User Groups should flow to forward the > movement. > It does not appear that way. Your suggestion seems to point to a more anarchist approach which has failed in the Indian context. Chapter is not democratically elected by the Community. It is a subset of > the Community, recognised by WMF. There is a large Community member pool > who are not Chapter members, whose membership stands between 130-150 people > at last count. The Chapter has to consider why this continues to be the > case after 4 years of its existence. > There are people who want to be a part of the chapter and there are people who want to stay away. The chapter was created to be inclusive and not exclusive as you are constantly trying to portray. For example, I am not a part of the chapter simply because I find it difficult to transfer the membership amount and form but I still consider the chapter to speak for me. The current Govt at the Centre was not elected by a majority ie greater than fifty percent. Rather it got the largest number of votes and hence formed the govt. Trying to say that it was not democratically elected would be a fallacy and one that I keep seeing in all your emails. > User Groups are a group of people who also similarly get affiliation from > WMF and hence has a standing equivalent to the Indian Chapter in India. > Here - http://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups > Quoting from the above link "User groups may or may not be legally incorporated entities" which means that they can die at any moment the main person who started it decides to do something else. Also, from the same above link, there is nothing which says that they are democratic and nothing which says that it is competing with the chapter. In fact it seems that user groups can be formed in places where there are no chapter activities. My original email is only for Wikimedians in India to not consider the > Chapter as an eternal entity based on a mandate given to it in 2010. > hmm seems very anarchistic but such an approach has failed before and will fail again. For examples please look at all the FOSS groups in India that are now dead. SIGs can be formed only by members of the Chapter and not outside it. Till > Vishwa's email today, the Chapter has been unwilling to support creation of > User Groups stating that SIGs can perform the same role. My clarification > in this case is only that this forces a Wikimedian to become a Chapter > member. > So now that you have a clarification in the positive direction on user groups I hope all of you will start working :) Regards ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Many user groups instead of One Chapter?
Hi,
The activity of the Chapter and the User Groups should flow to forward the
movement.
Chapter is not democratically elected by the Community. It is a subset of the
Community, recognised by WMF. There is a large Community member pool who are
not Chapter members, whose membership stands between 130-150 people at last
count. The Chapter has to consider why this continues to be the case after 4
years of its existence.
User Groups are a group of people who also similarly get affiliation from WMF
and hence has a standing equivalent to the Indian Chapter in India. Here -
http://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups
SIGs can be formed only by members of the Chapter and not outside it. Till
Vishwa's email today, the Chapter has been unwilling to support creation of
User Groups stating that SIGs can perform the same role. My clarification in
this case is only that this forces a Wikimedian to become a Chapter member.
My original email is only for Wikimedians in India to not consider the Chapter
as an eternal entity based on a mandate given to it in 2010.
Warm regards.
Pradeep
Sent from my iPhone
> On 07-Sep-2014, at 12:49, "Dhaval S. Vyas" wrote:
>
> +1
>
>> On 7 Sep 2014 07:53, "Vikram Vincent" wrote:
>> HI,
>>
>>> On 7 September 2014 11:38, Pradeep Mohandas
>>> wrote:
>>> I meant that the SIG system is similar to the User Group system. In the SIG
>>> affiliation is to the Chapter and in the User Group, the affiliation is to
>>> WMF directly.
>>>
>>> The need for direct affiliation is felt because the Chapter does not seem
>>> to be democratic (as you call it). Otherwise, the SIG would be a useful
>>> model to have.
>>
>> Whether you acknowledge it or not, the Chapter is the democratically elected
>> body {by, of, for} the community and as long as it has such a structure
>> there is always scope to improve. The SIG will function well as long as it
>> works from within the chapter instead of trying to bypass the chapter. User
>> groups and SIG are not the same as they have different functions. User
>> groups are generic and can accommodate everybody whereas Special Interest
>> Groups have special interests as the name says. So the user group and SIG
>> activities should flow into the Chapter activities rather than try to
>> divorce each from the other. This democratic structure and functioning has
>> worked well for FSMK, FSFTN, Swecha, FSMM and other bodies affiliated to
>> FSMI.
>> Regards
>> Vikram
>>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Many user groups instead of One Chapter?
+1
On 7 Sep 2014 07:53, "Vikram Vincent" wrote:
> HI,
>
> On 7 September 2014 11:38, Pradeep Mohandas
> wrote:
>
>> I meant that the SIG system is similar to the User Group system. In the
>> SIG affiliation is to the Chapter and in the User Group, the affiliation
>> is to WMF directly.
>>
>> The need for direct affiliation is felt because the Chapter does not seem
>> to be democratic (as you call it). Otherwise, the SIG would be a useful
>> model to have.
>>
>
> Whether you acknowledge it or not, the Chapter is the democratically
> elected body {by, of, for} the community and as long as it has such a
> structure there is always scope to improve. The SIG will function well as
> long as it works from within the chapter instead of trying to bypass the
> chapter. User groups and SIG are not the same as they have different
> functions. User groups are generic and can accommodate everybody whereas
> Special Interest Groups have special interests as the name says. So the
> user group and SIG activities should flow into the Chapter activities
> rather than try to divorce each from the other. This democratic structure
> and functioning has worked well for FSMK, FSFTN, Swecha, FSMM and other
> bodies affiliated to FSMI.
> Regards
> Vikram
>
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>
>
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