Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Arnav Sonara]

Hey,

> We may not have enough time or consensus or precedence to launch India
specific official / community led campaign regarding this by April 24th.

Even if you did have enough time, I have some serious concern with
repercussions it could cause, especially with Wikipedia Zero.

> Though Wikipedia Zero was welcomed widely during its launch and
expansion, it has become "the elephant in the room" for any Wikipedian
talking about net neutrality.  I don't recollect any community discussion /
consensus over this program apart from the blog post here by WMF -
>
> http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/

wikipedia-

zero-

and-net-

neutrality-

protecting-the-internet

/

>

Have a look at this also
http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/08/nothing-but-net

Regards,
Arnav.
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Ravishankar]

Karthik,

Thanks for starting this discussion.

We may not have enough time or consensus or precedence to launch India
specific official / community led campaign regarding this by April 24th.

But, net neutrality debates are happening all over the globe and it will be
good for the global Wikimedia community to take an official stand on this.
One can recollect how the stand  taken by Flipkart and ClearTrip shaped the
recent debate in India.

Though Wikipedia Zero was welcomed widely during its launch and expansion,
it has become "the elephant in the room" for any Wikipedian talking about
net neutrality.  I don't recollect any community discussion / consensus
over this program apart from the blog post here by WMF -

http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-protecting-the-internet/

Presence of Wikipedia in Internet.org like programs also needs to be
explained.

A RFC in Meta discussing this as a global issue would be a good start .

Ravi

P.S.

This is my personal opinion written from my personal email id. Not to be
taken as official view of any community or organization that I am
affiliated with.
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Karthik Nadar]

Finally "Indian Express" says that even Wikipedia had violated "Net
Neutrality" in India 
:
http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/social/net-neutrality-debate-its-not-just-limited-to-airtel-zero/

Content from the article in regard to Wikipedia and Aircel is as below:


*Aircel and Wikipedia:* In 2013, Aircel had announced that it will offer
free access to Wikipedia on mobile phones. The partnership is currently
valid for 3 years.

Wikipedia might be an instant go to for many of us, but that still doesn’t
justify why it should be free of charge on a particular network, when
accessing other sites means incurring data charges for users.


On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Karthik Nadar 
wrote:

> Hi Arnav,
>
> Thanks for your inputs. I just shared my points and just wanted to know
> what all are thinking about the same.
>
> Would just like to defend my point as I have not explained it properly
> (again my own views): By grabbing eyeballs, its not only about to increase
> editors, its also about readership.
>
> Thanks again Arnav. Your views are valid as well :)
>
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-- 
Regards,
Karthik Nadar.
/karthikndr , @karthikndr

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Karthik Nadar]

Hi Arnav,

Thanks for your inputs. I just shared my points and just wanted to know
what all are thinking about the same.

Would just like to defend my point as I have not explained it properly
(again my own views): By grabbing eyeballs, its not only about to increase
editors, its also about readership.

Thanks again Arnav. Your views are valid as well :)
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Jayantilal Kothari]

+1 Arnav



On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 3:11 AM, Arnav Sonara 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> > As Wikipedians, I'm not sure how many support Net Neutrality, but as
> Netizens I'm sure most of them are supporting Net Neutrality.
>
> I'd certainly like to use {citation needed} here, but let's give it a pass
> for now ;)
>
> > I do recollect how Wikipedia helped protest against SOPA and PIPA. I
> think this kind of protest will help the maximum community of Netizens as
> whole. Also, as Indian Wikipedians, we would grab some eyballs which would
> have impact on contributions to Wikimedia projects as well.
>
> Firstly, SOPA/PIPA is not equal to net neutrality debate going on in
> India. Secondly, sopa/pipa was for the US where WMF is registered and run
> the servers from.
>
> And "grab some eyeballs" is certainly not a justification to run site wide
> banners misguiding people.
> What sort of impact on contributions are you even suggesting of getting
> out from this? Do you even have any statistics on the rise of number of
> contributions on Wikimedia projects after sopa blackout?
>
> >
> > I think Wikipedia, especially the English community should initiate a
> discussion on how the community and contribute to create an impact in
> India.
>
> Sure, allow the internet to penetrate the Indian market.
>
> >
> >
> > Please note: Wikipedia Zero and Airtel Zero (just as an example) is all
> together a different concept; where the first focuses on on giving
> educational right to individuals and later to promote business of their
> partners by various means (speeding their partners site, slowing down
> competitors site and so on).
>
> I certainly need citation here, which telecom company has slowed down the
> competitors site? If they want to speed their partners site, they certainly
> could, because its their private property. Also these providers fear the
> impact of loosing a customer segment if they start fast laning select sites
> and services only.
>
> > "Just imagine a day a paid encyclopedia loads faster in all ISPs then
> Wikipedia." Do we want to see such a day?
>
> Seriously? Wikipedia is where it is today because of the successful
> disruptive model, everyone (I assume) knows this! Can you even name one
> encyclopedia and one isp who would even think to implement what you wrote
> above? If any telecom company even did so, they sure would be running out
> of business.
>
> Regards,
> Arnav.
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Arnav Sonara]

Hello everyone,

> As Wikipedians, I'm not sure how many support Net Neutrality, but as
Netizens I'm sure most of them are supporting Net Neutrality.

I'd certainly like to use {citation needed} here, but let's give it a pass
for now ;)

> I do recollect how Wikipedia helped protest against SOPA and PIPA. I
think this kind of protest will help the maximum community of Netizens as
whole. Also, as Indian Wikipedians, we would grab some eyballs which would
have impact on contributions to Wikimedia projects as well.

Firstly, SOPA/PIPA is not equal to net neutrality debate going on in India.
Secondly, sopa/pipa was for the US where WMF is registered and run the
servers from.

And "grab some eyeballs" is certainly not a justification to run site wide
banners misguiding people.
What sort of impact on contributions are you even suggesting of getting out
from this? Do you even have any statistics on the rise of number of
contributions on Wikimedia projects after sopa blackout?

>
> I think Wikipedia, especially the English community should initiate a
discussion on how the community and contribute to create an impact in
India.

Sure, allow the internet to penetrate the Indian market.

>
>
> Please note: Wikipedia Zero and Airtel Zero (just as an example) is all
together a different concept; where the first focuses on on giving
educational right to individuals and later to promote business of their
partners by various means (speeding their partners site, slowing down
competitors site and so on).

I certainly need citation here, which telecom company has slowed down the
competitors site? If they want to speed their partners site, they certainly
could, because its their private property. Also these providers fear the
impact of loosing a customer segment if they start fast laning select sites
and services only.

> "Just imagine a day a paid encyclopedia loads faster in all ISPs then
Wikipedia." Do we want to see such a day?

Seriously? Wikipedia is where it is today because of the successful
disruptive model, everyone (I assume) knows this! Can you even name one
encyclopedia and one isp who would even think to implement what you wrote
above? If any telecom company even did so, they sure would be running out
of business.

Regards,
Arnav.
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Dhaval S. Vyas]

+1
On 17 Apr 2015 07:11, "Karthik Nadar"  wrote:

> I thought of requesting a banner (with consent and support from the wide
> community) in all sites of Wikimedia projects expressing support for Net
> Neutrality. In the link, we can explain people why Net Neutrality is
> important and why the Wikimedia community is supporting the cause.
>
> We can start creating the proposal to get the support from the community
> and then request WMF to assist us in banners across sites.
>
> The deadline for expressing support is 24 April 2015.
>
>
>
>
> Regards from Mumbai,
> Karthik Nadar.
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 8:44 AM, Ashwin Baindur 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for highlighting this issue! Karthik. The proposal violate the
>> complete spirit of equality that Wikipedia promotes. Imho every
>> Wikipedia who believes in the Five Pillars is morally bound to
>> represent.
>>
>> So guys, I have represented in various ways. Have you?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Jayantilal Kothari
>>  wrote:
>> > To understand what exactly is net neutrality please watch this video.
>> >
>> > http://goo.gl/6KDcvV
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Jayantilal
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Karthik Nadar <
>> karthik...@wikimedia.in>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear all,
>> >>
>> >> As Wikipedians, I'm not sure how many support Net Neutrality, but as
>> >> Netizens I'm sure most of them are supporting Net Neutrality.
>> >>
>> >> Considering 24 April 2015 is the last day to protest against telecoms
>> and
>> >> request TRAI to have to have relook onto the consultation paper, I
>> think
>> >> Wikipedia also stands as a major platform to lend support to all
>> Netizens
>> >> including ourselves.
>> >>
>> >> I do recollect how Wikipedia helped protest against SOPA and PIPA. I
>> think
>> >> this kind of protest will help the maximum community of Netizens as
>> whole.
>> >> Also, as Indian Wikipedians, we would grab some eyballs which would
>> have
>> >> impact on contributions to Wikimedia projects as well.
>> >>
>> >> I think Wikipedia, especially the English community should initiate a
>> >> discussion on how the community and contribute to create an impact in
>> India.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Please note: Wikipedia Zero and Airtel Zero (just as an example) is all
>> >> together a different concept; where the first focuses on on giving
>> >> educational right to individuals and later to promote business of their
>> >> partners by various means (speeding their partners site, slowing down
>> >> competitors site and so on).
>> >>
>> >> FYI: Flipkart did withdrew from Airtel Zero lending your official
>> support
>> >> to Net Neutrality.
>> >>
>> >> Some more facts:
>> >>
>> >> * Net Neutrality in India Wikipedia article is seeing increase
>> everydays
>> >> in terms of views
>> >> * More than 4 lakhs emails has been sent to TRAI from
>> >> http://www.netneutrality.in/ alone
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Just imagine a day a paid encyclopedia loads faster in all ISPs then
>> >> Wikipedia." Do we want to see such a day?
>> >>
>> >> Regards from Mumbai,
>> >> Karthik Nadar.
>> >>
>> >> ___
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>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> Ashwin Baindur
>> --
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Ashwin Baindur]

Thanks for highlighting this issue! Karthik. The proposal violate the
complete spirit of equality that Wikipedia promotes. Imho every
Wikipedia who believes in the Five Pillars is morally bound to
represent.

So guys, I have represented in various ways. Have you?


On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Jayantilal Kothari
 wrote:
> To understand what exactly is net neutrality please watch this video.
>
> http://goo.gl/6KDcvV
>
> Regards,
> Jayantilal
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Karthik Nadar 
> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> As Wikipedians, I'm not sure how many support Net Neutrality, but as
>> Netizens I'm sure most of them are supporting Net Neutrality.
>>
>> Considering 24 April 2015 is the last day to protest against telecoms and
>> request TRAI to have to have relook onto the consultation paper, I think
>> Wikipedia also stands as a major platform to lend support to all Netizens
>> including ourselves.
>>
>> I do recollect how Wikipedia helped protest against SOPA and PIPA. I think
>> this kind of protest will help the maximum community of Netizens as whole.
>> Also, as Indian Wikipedians, we would grab some eyballs which would have
>> impact on contributions to Wikimedia projects as well.
>>
>> I think Wikipedia, especially the English community should initiate a
>> discussion on how the community and contribute to create an impact in India.
>>
>>
>> Please note: Wikipedia Zero and Airtel Zero (just as an example) is all
>> together a different concept; where the first focuses on on giving
>> educational right to individuals and later to promote business of their
>> partners by various means (speeding their partners site, slowing down
>> competitors site and so on).
>>
>> FYI: Flipkart did withdrew from Airtel Zero lending your official support
>> to Net Neutrality.
>>
>> Some more facts:
>>
>> * Net Neutrality in India Wikipedia article is seeing increase everydays
>> in terms of views
>> * More than 4 lakhs emails has been sent to TRAI from
>> http://www.netneutrality.in/ alone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Just imagine a day a paid encyclopedia loads faster in all ISPs then
>> Wikipedia." Do we want to see such a day?
>>
>> Regards from Mumbai,
>> Karthik Nadar.
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
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>
>
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-- 
Warm regards,

Ashwin Baindur
--

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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Jayantilal Kothari]

To understand what exactly is net neutrality please watch this video.

http://goo.gl/6KDcvV

Regards,
Jayantilal

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 12:16 PM, Karthik Nadar 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> As Wikipedians, I'm not sure how many support Net Neutrality, but as
> Netizens I'm sure most of them are supporting Net Neutrality.
>
> Considering 24 April 2015 is the last day to protest against telecoms and
> request TRAI to have to have relook onto the consultation paper
> , I think
> Wikipedia also stands as a major platform to lend support to all Netizens
> including ourselves.
>
> I do recollect how Wikipedia helped protest against SOPA and PIPA
> .
> I think this kind of protest will help the maximum community of Netizens as
> whole. Also, as Indian Wikipedians, we would grab some eyballs which would
> have impact on contributions to Wikimedia projects as well.
>
> I think Wikipedia, especially the English community should initiate a
> discussion on how the community and contribute to create an impact in
> India.
>
>
> *Please note: *Wikipedia Zero and Airtel Zero (just as an example) is all
> together a different concept; where the first focuses on on giving
> educational right to individuals and later to promote business of their
> partners by various means (speeding their partners site, slowing down
> competitors site and so on).
>
> FYI: Flipkart did withdrew from Airtel Zero lending your official support
> to Net Neutrality.
>
> Some more facts:
>
> * Net Neutrality in India Wikipedia article is seeing increase everydays
> in terms of views
> * More than 4 lakhs emails has been sent to TRAI from
> http://www.netneutrality.in/ alone
>
>
>
>
> "Just imagine a day a paid encyclopedia loads faster in all ISPs then
> Wikipedia." Do we want to see such a day?
>
> Regards from Mumbai,
> Karthik Nadar.
>
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>
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[Wikimediaindia-l] Net Neutrality and Wikipedia

[Karthik Nadar]

Dear all,

As Wikipedians, I'm not sure how many support Net Neutrality, but as
Netizens I'm sure most of them are supporting Net Neutrality.

Considering 24 April 2015 is the last day to protest against telecoms and
request TRAI to have to have relook onto the consultation paper
, I think Wikipedia
also stands as a major platform to lend support to all Netizens including
ourselves.

I do recollect how Wikipedia helped protest against SOPA and PIPA
.
I think this kind of protest will help the maximum community of Netizens as
whole. Also, as Indian Wikipedians, we would grab some eyballs which would
have impact on contributions to Wikimedia projects as well.

I think Wikipedia, especially the English community should initiate a
discussion on how the community and contribute to create an impact in
India.


*Please note: *Wikipedia Zero and Airtel Zero (just as an example) is all
together a different concept; where the first focuses on on giving
educational right to individuals and later to promote business of their
partners by various means (speeding their partners site, slowing down
competitors site and so on).

FYI: Flipkart did withdrew from Airtel Zero lending your official support
to Net Neutrality.

Some more facts:

* Net Neutrality in India Wikipedia article is seeing increase everydays in
terms of views
* More than 4 lakhs emails has been sent to TRAI from
http://www.netneutrality.in/ alone




"Just imagine a day a paid encyclopedia loads faster in all ISPs then
Wikipedia." Do we want to see such a day?

Regards from Mumbai,
Karthik Nadar.
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