Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Who in the UK has done museum negotiations?
2009/7/13 David Gerard : > 2009/7/12 Michael Peel : > >> This is something I'm currently trying to become much more active in >> - I've talked to one museum (Manchester Museum of Science and >> Industry), but haven't gotten much further with other museums yet >> (need to spend the time to write emails etc.). My focus is much more >> on starting talking to them, rather than going straight for any sort >> of image donation etc., as I want to make sure that both sides are >> happy with the outcome and have a long and cooperative relationship. >> Need more time in the day/week... > > > There are already pissed-off Wikimedians likely to be contacting them > as individuals. So I want to make this a nice call. I know they've > already started getting upset (though all extremely well written) > emails (I've gotten copies). > > When you thump a hornet's nest with a cricket bat, you get to > negotiate with each hornet individually. Thankfully we're not that > keen to sting, honest ... Seriously, DON'T PHONE THE NATIONAL PORTRAIT GALLERY. You don't know what Derrick is going to decide to do so you can't possibly know what to say. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Who in the UK has done museum negotiations?
2009/7/12 Michael Peel : > This is something I'm currently trying to become much more active in > - I've talked to one museum (Manchester Museum of Science and > Industry), but haven't gotten much further with other museums yet > (need to spend the time to write emails etc.). My focus is much more > on starting talking to them, rather than going straight for any sort > of image donation etc., as I want to make sure that both sides are > happy with the outcome and have a long and cooperative relationship. > Need more time in the day/week... There are already pissed-off Wikimedians likely to be contacting them as individuals. So I want to make this a nice call. I know they've already started getting upset (though all extremely well written) emails (I've gotten copies). When you thump a hornet's nest with a cricket bat, you get to negotiate with each hornet individually. Thankfully we're not that keen to sting, honest ... - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Who in the UK has done museum negotiations?
This is something I'm currently trying to become much more active in - I've talked to one museum (Manchester Museum of Science and Industry), but haven't gotten much further with other museums yet (need to spend the time to write emails etc.). My focus is much more on starting talking to them, rather than going straight for any sort of image donation etc., as I want to make sure that both sides are happy with the outcome and have a long and cooperative relationship. Need more time in the day/week... Mike On 12 Jul 2009, at 19:36, David Gerard wrote: > As in, not the NPG, but museums who are actually willing to do a deal, > get works out as CC by-sa if not PD with a great big credit, etc. > > Anyone in the UK actually done this? > > > - d. > > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Who in the UK has done museum negotiations?
2009/7/12 David Gerard : > 2009/7/12 Andrew Turvey : >> The Victoria and Albert Museum worked with us on the Wikipedia Loves Art >> project - that involved licensing photographs of their work under CC-BY-SA. > Yep. Who worked on that from our side? My interest, fairly obviously, is the NPG matter. I really want to see if we can find someone there who we can negotiate anything acceptable to the Wikimedia community and free culture in general. Speaking entirely as myself, i.e. a contributor, WMF volunteer (no actual power) and not actually a WMUK rep any more (which is good in the context of legal threats flying about). That we had a successful exercise with the V&A and will praise them to the skies at every opportunity is an excellent example in our favour, for example. There's also that the NPG is a government department. That means every action - every line in that lawyer's letter - they have to be able to justify in terms of their remit. They don't get to do bad things in a good cause. There's all sorts of things to talk about, as very very nicely as possible ... if there's anyone sane there and they aren't entirely staffed by the art gallery equivalent of General Jack D. Ripper. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Who in the UK has done museum negotiations?
2009/7/12 Andrew Turvey : > The Victoria and Albert Museum worked with us on the Wikipedia Loves Art > project - that involved licensing photographs of their work under CC-BY-SA. Yep. Who worked on that from our side? - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Who in the UK has done museum negotiations?
The Victoria and Albert Museum worked with us on the Wikipedia Loves Art project - that involved licensing photographs of their work under CC-BY-SA. - "David Gerard" wrote: > From: "David Gerard" > To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Sent: Sunday, 12 July, 2009 19:36:37 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, > Portugal > Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Who in the UK has done museum negotiations? > > As in, not the NPG, but museums who are actually willing to do a deal, > get works out as CC by-sa if not PD with a great big credit, etc. > > Anyone in the UK actually done this? > > > - d. > > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Who in the UK has done museum negotiations?
As in, not the NPG, but museums who are actually willing to do a deal, get works out as CC by-sa if not PD with a great big credit, etc. Anyone in the UK actually done this? - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Foundation-l] "sue and be damned" FOI to NPG
But even if FOI is deemed to apply to photographs of artwork, they could release the files and still maintain their claim of copyright http://www.dca.gov.uk/foi/yourRights/index.htm#receive They could also claim commercial interest (IMO reasonably) as a reason not to comply with such a FOI request, but this is at least tested against the public interest. http://www.dca.gov.uk/foi/yourRights/exemptions.htm#43 Pete / the wub 2009/7/12 Dahsun > > I agree that the WMUK shouldn't get directly involved, but if without > making any reference to the case in hand they request the same information > under the FOI then I would have thought they were indirectly rather than > directly involved. > > As for whether the FOI has an exemption for artwork, well I'd be interested > in what the lawyers have to say on this as there is some legalese in the > legislation that I can't get my head around. > > However the National Portrait Gallery has its own handy > http://www.npg.org.uk/about/foi.php section on FOI, and I don't read that > as containing any substantial claim of exemption from the Act for the > gallery. They also have some fine objectives including "the provision of > access to the national collection of portraits for all sections of the > population" but reassuringly not "the restriction of access to the national > collection of portraits only to those who can visit the gallery in person" > or "maximising of the commercial use of the images" > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, David Gerard wrote: > > > From: David Gerard > > Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Foundation-l] "sue and be damned" FOI to > NPG > > To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Date: Saturday, 11 July, 2009, 1:00 PM > > 2009/7/11 Dahsun : > > > > > Perhaps the air would be slightly clearer if Wikimedia > > UK were to make Freedom of Information Act requests to the > > NPG and other Publicly funded galleries for the highest def > > digital photos they have available of any artworks in their > > possession. > > > > > > WMUK getting directly involved in this would be very bad > > for WMUK's > > (legal) perceived separation from WMF. Of course, WMUK > > could > > meaningfully comment that "claiming copyright on something > > four > > hundred years old is more than a little odious - it's not > > like the > > painter will paint another painting if only th NPG can make > > legal > > threats." > > > > That said, your approach is most certainly particularly > > amusing :-D I > > expect they'd claim these were commercial works and the > > core of their > > business or somesuch. > > > > > > - d. > > > > ___ > > Wikimedia UK mailing list > > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Foundation-l] "sue and be damned" FOI to NPG
I agree that the WMUK shouldn't get directly involved, but if without making any reference to the case in hand they request the same information under the FOI then I would have thought they were indirectly rather than directly involved. As for whether the FOI has an exemption for artwork, well I'd be interested in what the lawyers have to say on this as there is some legalese in the legislation that I can't get my head around. However the National Portrait Gallery has its own handy http://www.npg.org.uk/about/foi.php section on FOI, and I don't read that as containing any substantial claim of exemption from the Act for the gallery. They also have some fine objectives including "the provision of access to the national collection of portraits for all sections of the population" but reassuringly not "the restriction of access to the national collection of portraits only to those who can visit the gallery in person" or "maximising of the commercial use of the images" --- On Sat, 11/7/09, David Gerard wrote: > From: David Gerard > Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Foundation-l] "sue and be damned" FOI to NPG > To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Date: Saturday, 11 July, 2009, 1:00 PM > 2009/7/11 Dahsun : > > > Perhaps the air would be slightly clearer if Wikimedia > UK were to make Freedom of Information Act requests to the > NPG and other Publicly funded galleries for the highest def > digital photos they have available of any artworks in their > possession. > > > WMUK getting directly involved in this would be very bad > for WMUK's > (legal) perceived separation from WMF. Of course, WMUK > could > meaningfully comment that "claiming copyright on something > four > hundred years old is more than a little odious - it's not > like the > painter will paint another painting if only th NPG can make > legal > threats." > > That said, your approach is most certainly particularly > amusing :-D I > expect they'd claim these were commercial works and the > core of their > business or somesuch. > > > - d. > > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
