Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimediauk-l Digest, Vol 100, Issue 11
Thank You Adam for doing this. Yes indeed, it was Tudor School Boy Life As I said I gave up, and indeed I haven't visited WS since, which is why I neither took it to the help forum, and haven't as yet replied to your question. Perhaps this is an unfortunate attitude on my part, but perhaps I am not the only person to respond in this way when feeling frustrated. Anyway, I'll have another crack at it. all the best Fabian User:Leutha > Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 18:02:27 + > From: Adam Morgan > To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a > proofreading > contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On 9 November 2013 02:33:52, fabian wrote: > >> Yes I tried this . . . once. I create the DjVU file and got it onto >> commons but then when I tried to get it on Wikisource, I discovered >> there >> were forbidden characters in the file name which I had not been warned >> about before. After a bit more mucking about I gave up. All a bit >> frustrating really. > > > I've never heard of forbidden characters before, beyond the usual for all > computers. You never did reply to my question, nor take this to the help > forum. > > Assuming you mean "File:Tudorschoolboyl01vivegoog.djvu" (as another user > suggested), I could not reproduce your error. However, while I was > examining it, I took the time to clean it up, replace it with a better > copy > (I try to avoid Google scans, they are frequently extremely poor quality) > and had it renamed, per Commons policy, to "File:Tudor School-boy Life > (1908) by Juan Luis Vives.djvu". (NB: The translator counts for copyright > purposes, so I changed the licence too.) > > There is still a small problem, Proofread Page isn't automatically > recognising it as a DjVu file, but that can be fixed manually. > > If you still want to try, click the wikisource logo on the Commons page, > create and save. (Manual fixes that would be useful: add the > tag to the Pages section; change Scans to "djvu"; and change Progress to > "To be proofread". I have no idea why it isn't doing this automatically at > the moment.) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary
Adam and all Defnyddiwr:Lloffiwr is an Admin on cy.ws: https://cy.wikisource.org/wiki/Defnyddiwr:Lloffiwr There aren't enough of us to enter the competition; but getting the system ready for mass upload would be good. Diolch! Robin Owain On 09 November 2013 at 21:48 Adam Morgan wrote: On 9 November 2013 02:21:48, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com> wrote: > The bare bones, for something on enWS, would be > > *choice from out of existing texts on WS of a range of works, none too > hard to do (steer clear of special characters, heavy format and so on), and > *a page with links to the Index pages? > > With explanations of the traffic-light quality system, and an outline of > the competition rules. Setting up a page will be easy but first, 1) Is Wikimedia UK going to back this? 2) How is this going to work? I'm not that familiar with all of the unfinished works on Wikisource at the moment but I think we might need to upload some new ones too. If we do this, we need to work out what sort of works we want to use. I think works from the late Victorian era or twentieth century would be the best choice. They probably won't have the special characters or formatting issues, for the most part. Novels might be better than poetry; the latter has less text but more formatting. More famous authors might make sense but may also feel redundant; I don't know if people would want to work on something that's already widely available elsewhere. I would like to include some mid-twentieth century stuff, as a gentle reminder than the public domain did not stop in 1900, but the only things I know that are available are some issues of Amazing Stories that I had planned to work on myself (which have some illustrations and a few pages with complicated formatting). There should probably be some variety so people not interested in one could swap to something else. What are the competition rules? For example, do validations count? It would be nice to include that aspect of the project. Does proofread of non-competition list works count towards scoring? What if one person does some proofreading but the page is completed by another? Will Wikimedia UK award prizes to users outside the UK? Will Wikimedia UK award prizes?! Some of my suggested answers:- * 2 points per proofread page * 1 point per validated page * Only works on the competition list count towards scoring * Works proofread by multiple people have the points divided equally among them, except... ** Merely saving OCR'd text without proofreading doesn't count for scoring * Blank pages do not count towards scoring * The importance of the location of the user is probably down to the chapter If cy.ws is getting in on this, they need their own page and we need to decide if that is a separate competition or not. That is, will the most prolific on cy.ws get an e-reader AND the most prolific on en.ws gets an e-reader OR are they competing against each other for just one e-reader. Is it just en & cy or will Wikimedia UK support other competitions? Will it support a Polish or Bengali competition, for example, assuming they are running one? NB: I cannot find any administrators on cy.ws, so I don't know whom to ask. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary
On 9 November 2013 02:21:48, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com> wrote: > The bare bones, for something on enWS, would be > > *choice from out of existing texts on WS of a range of works, none too > hard to do (steer clear of special characters, heavy format and so on), and > *a page with links to the Index pages? > > With explanations of the traffic-light quality system, and an outline of > the competition rules. Setting up a page will be easy but first, 1) Is Wikimedia UK going to back this? 2) How is this going to work? I'm not that familiar with all of the unfinished works on Wikisource at the moment but I think we might need to upload some new ones too. If we do this, we need to work out what sort of works we want to use. I think works from the late Victorian era or twentieth century would be the best choice. They probably won't have the special characters or formatting issues, for the most part. Novels might be better than poetry; the latter has less text but more formatting. More famous authors might make sense but may also feel redundant; I don't know if people would want to work on something that's already widely available elsewhere. I would like to include some mid-twentieth century stuff, as a gentle reminder than the public domain did not stop in 1900, but the only things I know that are available are some issues of Amazing Stories that I had planned to work on myself (which have some illustrations and a few pages with complicated formatting). There should probably be some variety so people not interested in one could swap to something else. What are the competition rules? For example, do validations count? It would be nice to include that aspect of the project. Does proofread of non-competition list works count towards scoring? What if one person does some proofreading but the page is completed by another? Will Wikimedia UK award prizes to users outside the UK? Will Wikimedia UK award prizes?! Some of my suggested answers:- * 2 points per proofread page * 1 point per validated page * Only works on the competition list count towards scoring * Works proofread by multiple people have the points divided equally among them, except... ** Merely saving OCR'd text without proofreading doesn't count for scoring * Blank pages do not count towards scoring * The importance of the location of the user is probably down to the chapter If cy.ws is getting in on this, they need their own page and we need to decide if that is a separate competition or not. That is, will the most prolific on cy.ws get an e-reader AND the most prolific on en.ws gets an e-reader OR are they competing against each other for just one e-reader. Is it just en & cy or will Wikimedia UK support other competitions? Will it support a Polish or Bengali competition, for example, assuming they are running one? NB: I cannot find any administrators on cy.ws, so I don't know whom to ask. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading > contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary
On 9 November 2013 02:33:52, fabian wrote: > Yes I tried this . . . once. I create the DjVU file and got it onto > commons but then when I tried to get it on Wikisource, I discovered there > were forbidden characters in the file name which I had not been warned > about before. After a bit more mucking about I gave up. All a bit > frustrating really. I've never heard of forbidden characters before, beyond the usual for all computers. You never did reply to my question, nor take this to the help forum. Assuming you mean "File:Tudorschoolboyl01vivegoog.djvu" (as another user suggested), I could not reproduce your error. However, while I was examining it, I took the time to clean it up, replace it with a better copy (I try to avoid Google scans, they are frequently extremely poor quality) and had it renamed, per Commons policy, to "File:Tudor School-boy Life (1908) by Juan Luis Vives.djvu". (NB: The translator counts for copyright purposes, so I changed the licence too.) There is still a small problem, Proofread Page isn't automatically recognising it as a DjVu file, but that can be fixed manually. If you still want to try, click the wikisource logo on the Commons page, create and save. (Manual fixes that would be useful: add the tag to the Pages section; change Scans to "djvu"; and change Progress to "To be proofread". I have no idea why it isn't doing this automatically at the moment.) On 9 November 2013 04:57:47, Fæ wrote: > This is one of the areas that having a chapter employee/named > wikisource expert help could sort out, doing this in parallel to the > competition might be a smart approach. Any volunteer that finds this > confusing and has a key document that would be of high value to the > projects, could just email a link or a photocopied document (via > freepost) to a chapter contact. Only good for a limited number of > documents and not whole books, but a good area to offer help, or > indeed a training event for those that need a push to learn how to DIY > and have some projects in mind (nods to cy.ws). > > Creating a good djvu file (or even a pdf) is a bit of an art as with > standard free tools it can be hard or impossible to set embedded image > resolution etc. My preferred three-step method is: 1) Upload it to the Internet Archive. 2) Let them deal with it. 3) Download the finished file. That only works for page scan files (ie. JPEGs); I don't know how you would deal with photocopies. Someone could do that, perhaps starting with something like Dropbox for the volunteer's scans. I turned my method into a help page on Wikisource (Help:Internet Archive) if anyone is interested. I can't do it: I frequently reach my bandwidth limit as it is, and may have to actually downgrade soon. Speaking of photocopies, many standard office Multifunction Devices (MFDs), the modern version of an office photocopier, can easily make PDF files. Commons/MediaWiki has a problem with more recent version of PDF, however, but that's a separate issue. (I think Archive will convert PDFs as well as scans, I've just never tried it.) The actual book scanning is the hard bit. I built a temporary V-cradle out of old cardboard boxes to do it when I tried. Lego might be a better medium for the future. I also only have one digital camera, so I had to turn it around and go the other way for a second pass (a professional book scanner has two cameras, pointing at either page, so it only needs one pass). That's too much of a spit and bailing-wire approach to really teach anyone. (Destructive book scanning would be easier but libraries might object.) - Adam ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading > contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary
On 09/11/2013, fab...@unpopular.org.uk wrote: > Yes I tried this . . . once. I create the DjVU file and got it onto > commons but then when I tried to get it on Wikisource, I discovered there > were forbidden characters in the file name which I had not been warned > about before. After a bit more mucking about I gave up. All a bit > frustrating really. This is one of the areas that having a chapter employee/named wikisource expert help could sort out, doing this in parallel to the competition might be a smart approach. Any volunteer that finds this confusing and has a key document that would be of high value to the projects, could just email a link or a photocopied document (via freepost) to a chapter contact. Only good for a limited number of documents and not whole books, but a good area to offer help, or indeed a training event for those that need a push to learn how to DIY and have some projects in mind (nods to cy.ws). Creating a good djvu file (or even a pdf) is a bit of an art as with standard free tools it can be hard or impossible to set embedded image resolution etc. I am surprised at the example of bad characters, I have stumbled several times with these file name problems, but they should normally be solvable using unicode in the right way or re-mapping the obvious problem characters (like slashes to dashes). Right now I'm maintaining a multi-language backlog table, knowing how to do this sort of thing took me a long time to learn.[1] Not sure I would want to debug everyone else's problems though. :-) 1. Example table https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading/Airliners/Priority Fae -- fae...@gmail.com http://j.mp/faewm ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading > contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary
> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 23:41:14 + > From: Adam Morgan > To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading > contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > (...) > Most users would never need to actually create a DjVu themselves. I've > tried scanning from scratch and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who > wasn't already committed to the project. Nothing Wikisource or Wikimedia > can do is likely to change that, however. Yes I tried this . . . once. I create the DjVU file and got it onto commons but then when I tried to get it on Wikisource, I discovered there were forbidden characters in the file name which I had not been warned about before. After a bit more mucking about I gave up. All a bit frustrating really. all the best Fabian User:Leutha ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Preparing a proofreading contest for Wikisource's 10th aniversary
On 8 November 2013 23:41, Adam Morgan wrote:
>
> On 8 November 2013 11:42:24, Charles Matthews ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > English Wikisource runs a "Proofread of the Month" and one model would be
> > to adapt that to the needs of the competition ("all must have prizes" in
> > PoTM, namely a template on your userpage). So there could be a definite
> > bunch of works selected, where people proofread and validate them page by
> > page.
>
>
> This would be the easiest to judge and the fairest to run, as all texts
> could be of equal-ish clarity. I am currently working on a Georgian era
> book and it can be quite awkward. Victorian to 20th Century would be
> easiest as an entry point.
>
> On the other hand, this does require someone actually coming up with a
> list of books to proofread.
>
> That someone would need to make the list, organise everything and
> advertise the challenge in the next fortnight. Multiple languages would
> need multiple lists.
>
>
The bare bones, for something on enWS, would be
*choice from out of existing texts on WS of a range of works, none too
hard to do (steer clear of special characters, heavy format and so on), and
*a page with links to the Index pages?
With explanations of the traffic-light quality system, and an outline of
the competition rules.
Charles
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