Re: [Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Pat Hadley]

Hi folks,

This has been particularly disappointing - particularly since I've been at
the meetings in the archaeology/heritage sector waving the
Wikipedia/OpenData flag!

Oh well Good on you Andy! Who's your contact? You might want to try and
track down Keith May (author of this:
https://historicengland.org.uk/research/support-and-collaboration/heritage-information-access-strategy/)
and general data nerd and good egg...

Cheers,

Pat

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 12:54 AM, Rex X  wrote:

> Perhaps if more people did use a public mailing list to point it out, the
> offenders might be less likely to repeat the behaviour.
>
> Just guessing, of course.
> --
> Rexx
>
>
> > On 08 June 2016 at 13:51 Charles Matthews <
> charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On 08 June 2016 at 12:10 Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7 June 2016 at 14:29, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat
> with the
> > > > project manager later today.
> > >
> > > Despite saying he'd call me, he didn't. Nor have I received any
> > > explanation or apology for this.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, people are quite bad about that. Though I rarely use a public
> mailing
> > list
> > to point it out.
> >
> > Charles___
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
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>



-- 
Pat Hadley
Yorkshire's open culture brain-for-hire
pathadley.net
@pathadley 
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Rex X]

Perhaps if more people did use a public mailing list to point it out, the
offenders might be less likely to repeat the behaviour.

Just guessing, of course.
-- 
Rexx


> On 08 June 2016 at 13:51 Charles Matthews 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > On 08 June 2016 at 12:10 Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On 7 June 2016 at 14:29, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the
> > > project manager later today.
> > 
> > Despite saying he'd call me, he didn't. Nor have I received any
> > explanation or apology for this.
> > 
> 
> Yes, people are quite bad about that. Though I rarely use a public mailing
> list
> to point it out.
> 
> Charles___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Fæ]

It would make sense to build on the work already done in standardizing
NRHP related photographs. The 300,000 archive images of historic
American buildings I uploaded were mapped to Commons categories and
NRHP numbers. It's a while back, but you can see an example of
semi-automated mapping at

(I'd generate this using different methods now, at the time this was
independent of Wikidata).

NRHP exists on Wikidata, for example
. So this is all at the stage
where it can be pulled together with a bit of bot work and a bit of
consensus building on how to adapt existing templates, perhaps just a
couple of months with the right volunteer team.

Media on Commons for the UK's listed buildings could then easily
follow the identical workflow, but considering this has taken at least
four years of discussion to date, it's not strategically wise to try
to attempt to set a potentially conflicting precedent with the UK data
when the US data is at the final stage.

Fae


On 8 June 2016 at 11:03, Charles Matthews
 wrote:
> Perhaps some thought should be given to how to structure metadata on
> buildings (and suchlike) on Commons.
>
> Some of us are aware that the advent of Wikidata has led to a
> reconsideration of Commons from the "structured data" point of view; which
> is somewhat stalled right now, though the Creator pages have moved ahead. In
> other words architects yes, buildings no at present.
>
> In any case, while there is a great deal on Commons, there is also much to
> be done there.
>
> Charles

-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Charles Matthews]

> 
> On 08 June 2016 at 12:10 Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 7 June 2016 at 14:29, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> 
> > I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the
> > project manager later today.
> 
> Despite saying he'd call me, he didn't. Nor have I received any
> explanation or apology for this.
> 

Yes, people are quite bad about that. Though I rarely use a public mailing list
to point it out.

Charles___
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Andy Mabbett]

On 8 June 2016 at 11:03, Charles Matthews
 wrote:

> Perhaps some thought should be given to how to structure metadata on
> buildings (and suchlike) on Commons.

Indeed. For those unfamiliar with them, there are some pages on this, at:

   https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data

   https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wikidata

   https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Commons

though all seem out-of-date.

In the interim the Commons' template {{Wikidata}} can be used to
associate a Wikidata ID with an image, page or category about a
building, or any other item.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Andy Mabbett]

On 7 June 2016 at 14:29, Andy Mabbett  wrote:

> I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the
> project manager later today.

Despite saying he'd call me, he didn't. Nor have I received any
explanation or apology for this.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Charles Matthews]

Perhaps some thought should be given to how to structure metadata on buildings
(and suchlike) on Commons.

Some of us are aware that the advent of Wikidata has led to a reconsideration of
Commons from the "structured data" point of view; which is somewhat stalled
right now, though the Creator pages have moved ahead. In other words architects
yes, buildings no at present.

In any case, while there is a great deal on Commons, there is also much to be
done there.

Charles___
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Lucy Crompton-Reid]

Thanks for this Andy - what a shame! I hope you manage to speak to them and
see if there is any scope for coordination. Cheers, Lucy
On 7 Jun 2016 14:30, "Andy Mabbett"  wrote:

> As you may have seen in the media, or on social media, today, Heritage
> England, who maintain the country's list of, er, listed buildings,
> have launched a crowd-souring initiative, asking people to provide
> information and images about listed buildings.
>
> It's a horribly missed opportunity - it seems no thought has been
> given to collaborating with the Wikimedia movement, who have been
> colleclting such pictures on Commons (not least as "Wiki Loves
> Monuments") and writing about the buildings for over a decade, on
> Wikipedia.
>
> Nor are people submitting images asked to put them under open licence.
> They claim their terms, at:
>
>
> http://historicengland.org.uk/terms/website-terms-conditions/enriching-the-list-contribution-terms/
>
> allow the images to be used on Wikipedia, but that's not so.
>
> I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the
> project manager later today. I'll keep you informed.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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[Wikimediauk-l] #ListEngland: Heritage England, crowd-sourcing, a missed opportunity

[Andy Mabbett]

As you may have seen in the media, or on social media, today, Heritage
England, who maintain the country's list of, er, listed buildings,
have launched a crowd-souring initiative, asking people to provide
information and images about listed buildings.

It's a horribly missed opportunity - it seems no thought has been
given to collaborating with the Wikimedia movement, who have been
colleclting such pictures on Commons (not least as "Wiki Loves
Monuments") and writing about the buildings for over a decade, on
Wikipedia.

Nor are people submitting images asked to put them under open licence.
They claim their terms, at:

   
http://historicengland.org.uk/terms/website-terms-conditions/enriching-the-list-contribution-terms/

allow the images to be used on Wikipedia, but that's not so.

I'm in contact with them, and am hoping to have a phone chat with the
project manager later today. I'll keep you informed.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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