Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[Chris Keating]

Wait, what? Until 2014 the Mail was including material that was solely
sourced to Wikipedia??

Seriously???

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Gordon Joly  wrote:

>
>
>
> **
> A spokesman for Mail Newspapers said: “It is hard to know whether to
> laugh or cry at this move by Wikipedia. For the record the Daily Mail
> banned all its journalists from using Wikipedia as a sole source in 2014
> because of its unreliability.
>
> **
>
> Source: Guardian Online.
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/08/
> wikipedia-bans-daily-mail-as-unreliable-source-for-website
>
> Gordo
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[John Lubbock]

The irony is that the Mail fails to understand that they are in line with
Wikipedia's own policy, which states that it does not use other Wikipedia
pages as a source:

‘Wikipedia articles (and Wikipedia mirrors) are not reliable sources for
any purpose (except as sources on themselves per WP:SELFSOURCE
). Because Wikipedia
forbids original research, there is nothing reliable in it that is not
citable with something else.’

So yeah, we don't use Wikipedia as a 'sole source' either, because it's not
a primary or secondary source.

John

On 10 February 2017 at 09:58, Lucy Crompton-Reid <
lucy.crompton-r...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

> Well they certainly weren't laughing when they spoke to me...although I
> was nearly crying by the end of the call!
>
> On 10 February 2017 at 09:53, Gordon Joly  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>> A spokesman for Mail Newspapers said: “It is hard to know whether to
>> laugh or cry at this move by Wikipedia. For the record the Daily Mail
>> banned all its journalists from using Wikipedia as a sole source in 2014
>> because of its unreliability.
>>
>> **
>>
>> Source: Guardian Online.
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/08/wikipedia
>> -bans-daily-mail-as-unreliable-source-for-website
>>
>> Gordo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lucy Crompton-Reid
>
> Chief Executive
>
> Wikimedia UK
>
> +44 (0) 207 065 0991
>
>
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
>
> Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
> Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
> Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
> non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
> for its contents.*
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[Deryck Chan]

Interesting question from Chris.

On 9 February 2017 at 15:57, Chris Keating 
wrote:

> Which leaves the question of "why blacklist the Daily Mail not even worse
> sources?" If anyone can suggest an answer to that which would keep a journo
> happy I'd be interested to hear it  ;)
>

I think the answer is NPOV and systemic bias.

For several years I've been resisting the urge of other editors to prohibit
the use of "tabloid" newspapers in the context of establishing notability
of subjects in cultures whose primary language isn't English. I see it as a
necessary trade-off to address systemic bias.

Case in point: Some AfD editors don't like Apple Daily as a reference. But
they are the only major news outlet in Hong Kong that is openly critical of
the political establishment and supportive of the (perpetual) opposition.

I guess I'm just adding to David's comparison:

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:47 PM, David Gerard  wrote:

> compare -
> * not right-wing-ness - e.g. the Times and Telegraph are both serious
> papers that lean right
> * in fact - The Sun is not OK and the Times is, even though same politics
> and same publisher, because one's a tabloid and one's a serious paper
>

So:
- If blacklisting a tabloid source which sometimes produces questionable
journalism would mean a significant POV gets purged, we allow the lesser
evil of citing sources by lower-quality publishers.
- If the same publisher produces different publications that vary in
journalistic integrity, we treat each item differently.

Deryck
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[WereSpielChequers]

For those who want some background, this is the RFC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Daily_Mail_RfC

and this is also relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Daily_Mail_RfC

bccing someone who might not be on this list and might be willing to speak
publicly on this matter.

In any event I'm sure it will be discussed on Sunday at the London Meetup
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/London/115 - I spotted at least
three of our regulars and irregulars in the RFC discussion.

Jonathan

On 9 February 2017 at 16:07, rodward  wrote:

> Presumably they want someone who can be in London? or could this be done
> remotely?
>
>
>
> rod
>
>
>
> On 09.02.2017 15:59, Lucy Crompton-Reid wrote:
>
> Hi all
> Just to say that I've just had a chat with the nice man from Newsnight and
> he's still really keen to set up an interview between the lovely Evan Davis
> and an editor, who can talk about the way in which these decisions are
> made. I'm making a few direct phone calls but if this is something you
> think you could do, please get in touch! I'm on 07803 505 169 or just drop
> me an email.
> Cheers
> Lucy
>
> On 9 February 2017 at 15:47, David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> compare -
>> * not right-wing-ness - e.g. the Times and Telegraph are both serious
>> papers that lean right
>> * in fact - The Sun is not OK and the Times is, even though same politics
>> and same publisher, because one's a tabloid and one's a serious paper
>> * memorise the long lists of egregious falsehoods brought up in the RFC,
>> recite in a calm voice while smiling
>>
>> On 9 February 2017 at 15:45, David Gerard  wrote:
>>
>>> That is literally what the task is, yes :-)
>>>
>>> On 9 February 2017 at 15:41, Chris Keating 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hmmm, trying to turn an interview from "zomg! Wikipedia bans the Mail!"
 round to "actually this is all normal and we have some really interesting
 community preferences" sounds tricky. ;)

 On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard  wrote:

> Usual line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
> editors" then email here ;-D
>
> so er, editors?
>
> On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
>  wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great
> if
> > someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in
> particular
> > the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as
> it's
> > clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If
> someone
> > does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
> >
> > The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
> > fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes
> up and
> > comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which
> would
> > help to deal with enquiries.
> >
> > All best
> > Lucy
> >
> >
> > On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:
> >>
> >> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
> >> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
> >> email.
> >>
> >>
> >> - d.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Lucy Crompton-Reid
> >
> > Chief Executive
> >
> > Wikimedia UK
> >
> > +44 (0) 207 065 0991
> >
> >
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
> and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
> Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London
> EC2A 4LT.
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
> Wikimedia
> > projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia,
> amongst
> > other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity
> with no
> > legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[Lucy Crompton-Reid]

Indeed...surely that's enough to persuade you?!

On 9 February 2017 at 16:16, Andy Mabbett  wrote:

> On 9 February 2017 at 15:59, Lucy Crompton-Reid
>  wrote:
>
> > I've just had a chat with the nice man from Newsnight and he's still
> really
> > keen to set up an interview between the lovely Evan Davis
>
> The same Evan Davis who kindly supplied a recoding of his voice for us:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Davis
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk




-- 

Lucy Crompton-Reid

Chief Executive

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 207 065 0991



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.

Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[Andy Mabbett]

On 9 February 2017 at 15:59, Lucy Crompton-Reid
 wrote:

> I've just had a chat with the nice man from Newsnight and he's still really
> keen to set up an interview between the lovely Evan Davis

The same Evan Davis who kindly supplied a recoding of his voice for us:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Davis

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[David Gerard]

The answer is "well yes, a lot of those are under the same consideration,
sources that are even worse tend not to be disputed as to being obviously
not good."

On 9 February 2017 at 15:57, Chris Keating 
wrote:

> And NB that none of the 12,000 links to the Mail from Wikipedia have been
> removed yet by the "ban", and they will be reviewed and possibly replaced
> one-by-one, just like we review every other contribution. (If the "ban"
> in fact remains in force - I have a suspicion the RfC won't be the last
> word on the subject!)
>
> Which leaves the question of "why blacklist the Daily Mail not even worse
> sources?" If anyone can suggest an answer to that which would keep a journo
> happy I'd be interested to hear it  ;)
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:47 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> compare -
>> * not right-wing-ness - e.g. the Times and Telegraph are both serious
>> papers that lean right
>> * in fact - The Sun is not OK and the Times is, even though same politics
>> and same publisher, because one's a tabloid and one's a serious paper
>> * memorise the long lists of egregious falsehoods brought up in the RFC,
>> recite in a calm voice while smiling
>>
>> On 9 February 2017 at 15:45, David Gerard  wrote:
>>
>>> That is literally what the task is, yes :-)
>>>
>>> On 9 February 2017 at 15:41, Chris Keating 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hmmm, trying to turn an interview from "zomg! Wikipedia bans the Mail!"
 round to "actually this is all normal and we have some really interesting
 community preferences" sounds tricky. ;)

 On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard  wrote:

> Usual line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
> editors" then email here ;-D
>
> so er, editors?
>
> On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
>  wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great
> if
> > someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in
> particular
> > the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as
> it's
> > clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If
> someone
> > does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
> >
> > The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
> > fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes
> up and
> > comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which
> would
> > help to deal with enquiries.
> >
> > All best
> > Lucy
> >
> >
> > On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:
> >>
> >> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
> >> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
> >> email.
> >>
> >>
> >> - d.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Lucy Crompton-Reid
> >
> > Chief Executive
> >
> > Wikimedia UK
> >
> > +44 (0) 207 065 0991
> >
> >
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
> and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
> Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London
> EC2A 4LT.
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
> Wikimedia
> > projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia,
> amongst
> > other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity
> with no
> > legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>


 ___
 Wikimedia UK mailing list
 wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
 WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[rodward]

 

Presumably they want someone who can be in London? or could this be
done remotely? 

rod 

On 09.02.2017 15:59, Lucy Crompton-Reid wrote:


> Hi all 
> Just to say that I've just had a chat with the nice man
from Newsnight and he's still really keen to set up an interview between
the lovely Evan Davis and an editor, who can talk about the way in which
these decisions are made. I'm making a few direct phone calls but if
this is something you think you could do, please get in touch! I'm on
07803 505 169 or just drop me an email. 
> Cheers 
> Lucy 
> 
> On 9
February 2017 at 15:47, David Gerard  wrote:
>

>> compare - * not right-wing-ness - e.g. the Times and Telegraph are
both serious papers that lean right * in fact - The Sun is not OK and
the Times is, even though same politics and same publisher, because
one's a tabloid and one's a serious paper * memorise the long lists of
egregious falsehoods brought up in the RFC, recite in a calm voice while
smiling 
>> 
>> On 9 February 2017 at 15:45, David Gerard
 wrote:
>> 
>>> That is literally what the task
is, yes :-) 
>>> 
>>> On 9 February 2017 at 15:41, Chris Keating
 wrote:
>>> 
 Hmmm, trying to turn
an interview from "zomg! Wikipedia bans the Mail!" round to "actually
this is all normal and we have some really interesting community
preferences" sounds tricky. ;) 
 
 On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at
1:51 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
 
> Usual
line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
>
editors" then email here ;-D
> 
> so er, editors?
>

> On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
> 
>
 wrote:
> > Hi all
>
>
> > Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be
great if
> > someone could talk about this from an editor's
perspective - in particular
> > the process of consensus building
within the Wikipedia community, as it's
> > clear many people
working in the media don't understand this. If someone
> > does
respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
> >
> >
The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've
been
> > fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San
Francisco wakes up and
> > comes online they will send me their
statement on the issue, which would
> > help to deal with
enquiries.
> >
> > All best
> > Lucy
> >
> >
> >
On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard 
wrote:
> >>
> >> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can
talk about this, for
> >> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email
me and I'll forward you the
> >> email.
> >>
> >>
> >> -
d.
> >>
> >>
___
> >> Wikimedia UK
mailing list
> >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org [3]
> >>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l [4]
> >>
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk [5]
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> >
> > Lucy Crompton-Reid
> >
> > Chief
Executive
> >
> > Wikimedia UK
> >
> > +44 (0) 207 065
0991
> >
> >
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited
by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No.
6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th
Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
>
>
> > Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement.
The Wikimedia
> > projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst
> > other projects). Wikimedia UK is an
independent non-profit charity with no
> > legal control over
Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
> >
> >
> >
___
> > Wikimedia UK
mailing list
> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org [6]
> >
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l [7]
> >
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk [8]
> 
>
___
> Wikimedia UK
mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org [9]
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l [10]
>
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk [11]
 

___
 Wikimedia UK
mailing list
 wikimediau...@wikimedia.org [13]

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l [14]

WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk [15]
>> 
>>
___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing
list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org [18]
>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l [19]
>> WMUK:
https://wikimedia.org.uk [20]
> 
> -- 
> 
> Lucy Crompton-Reid 
> 
>
Chief Executive 
> 
> Wikimedia UK 
> 
> +44 (0) 207 065 0991 
> 
>
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[Lucy Crompton-Reid]

Hi all

Just to say that I've just had a chat with the nice man from Newsnight and
he's still really keen to set up an interview between the lovely Evan Davis
and an editor, who can talk about the way in which these decisions are
made. I'm making a few direct phone calls but if this is something you
think you could do, please get in touch! I'm on 07803 505 169 or just drop
me an email.

Cheers
Lucy





On 9 February 2017 at 15:47, David Gerard  wrote:

> compare -
> * not right-wing-ness - e.g. the Times and Telegraph are both serious
> papers that lean right
> * in fact - The Sun is not OK and the Times is, even though same politics
> and same publisher, because one's a tabloid and one's a serious paper
> * memorise the long lists of egregious falsehoods brought up in the RFC,
> recite in a calm voice while smiling
>
> On 9 February 2017 at 15:45, David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> That is literally what the task is, yes :-)
>>
>> On 9 February 2017 at 15:41, Chris Keating 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm, trying to turn an interview from "zomg! Wikipedia bans the Mail!"
>>> round to "actually this is all normal and we have some really interesting
>>> community preferences" sounds tricky. ;)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>>>
 Usual line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
 editors" then email here ;-D

 so er, editors?

 On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
  wrote:
 > Hi all
 >
 > Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great if
 > someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in
 particular
 > the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as
 it's
 > clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If
 someone
 > does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
 >
 > The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
 > fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes
 up and
 > comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which
 would
 > help to deal with enquiries.
 >
 > All best
 > Lucy
 >
 >
 > On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:
 >>
 >> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
 >> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
 >> email.
 >>
 >>
 >> - d.
 >>
 >> ___
 >> Wikimedia UK mailing list
 >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
 >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
 >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 >
 > Lucy Crompton-Reid
 >
 > Chief Executive
 >
 > Wikimedia UK
 >
 > +44 (0) 207 065 0991
 >
 >
 >
 > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
 and
 > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
 Registered
 > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London
 EC2A 4LT.
 >
 > Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
 Wikimedia
 > projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia,
 amongst
 > other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity
 with no
 > legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
 >
 >
 > ___
 > Wikimedia UK mailing list
 > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
 > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
 > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

 ___
 Wikimedia UK mailing list
 wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
 WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>



-- 

Lucy Crompton-Reid

Chief Executive

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 207 065 0991



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.

Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[Chris Keating]

And NB that none of the 12,000 links to the Mail from Wikipedia have been
removed yet by the "ban", and they will be reviewed and possibly replaced
one-by-one, just like we review every other contribution. (If the "ban"
in fact remains in force - I have a suspicion the RfC won't be the last
word on the subject!)

Which leaves the question of "why blacklist the Daily Mail not even worse
sources?" If anyone can suggest an answer to that which would keep a journo
happy I'd be interested to hear it  ;)

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:47 PM, David Gerard  wrote:

> compare -
> * not right-wing-ness - e.g. the Times and Telegraph are both serious
> papers that lean right
> * in fact - The Sun is not OK and the Times is, even though same politics
> and same publisher, because one's a tabloid and one's a serious paper
> * memorise the long lists of egregious falsehoods brought up in the RFC,
> recite in a calm voice while smiling
>
> On 9 February 2017 at 15:45, David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> That is literally what the task is, yes :-)
>>
>> On 9 February 2017 at 15:41, Chris Keating 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm, trying to turn an interview from "zomg! Wikipedia bans the Mail!"
>>> round to "actually this is all normal and we have some really interesting
>>> community preferences" sounds tricky. ;)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>>>
 Usual line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
 editors" then email here ;-D

 so er, editors?

 On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
  wrote:
 > Hi all
 >
 > Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great if
 > someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in
 particular
 > the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as
 it's
 > clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If
 someone
 > does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
 >
 > The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
 > fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes
 up and
 > comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which
 would
 > help to deal with enquiries.
 >
 > All best
 > Lucy
 >
 >
 > On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:
 >>
 >> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
 >> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
 >> email.
 >>
 >>
 >> - d.
 >>
 >> ___
 >> Wikimedia UK mailing list
 >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
 >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
 >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 >
 > Lucy Crompton-Reid
 >
 > Chief Executive
 >
 > Wikimedia UK
 >
 > +44 (0) 207 065 0991
 >
 >
 >
 > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
 and
 > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
 Registered
 > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London
 EC2A 4LT.
 >
 > Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
 Wikimedia
 > projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia,
 amongst
 > other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity
 with no
 > legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
 >
 >
 > ___
 > Wikimedia UK mailing list
 > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
 > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
 > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

 ___
 Wikimedia UK mailing list
 wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
 WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[David Gerard]

compare -
* not right-wing-ness - e.g. the Times and Telegraph are both serious
papers that lean right
* in fact - The Sun is not OK and the Times is, even though same politics
and same publisher, because one's a tabloid and one's a serious paper
* memorise the long lists of egregious falsehoods brought up in the RFC,
recite in a calm voice while smiling

On 9 February 2017 at 15:45, David Gerard  wrote:

> That is literally what the task is, yes :-)
>
> On 9 February 2017 at 15:41, Chris Keating 
> wrote:
>
>> Hmmm, trying to turn an interview from "zomg! Wikipedia bans the Mail!"
>> round to "actually this is all normal and we have some really interesting
>> community preferences" sounds tricky. ;)
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>>
>>> Usual line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
>>> editors" then email here ;-D
>>>
>>> so er, editors?
>>>
>>> On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Hi all
>>> >
>>> > Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great if
>>> > someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in
>>> particular
>>> > the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as
>>> it's
>>> > clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If
>>> someone
>>> > does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
>>> >
>>> > The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
>>> > fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes
>>> up and
>>> > comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which
>>> would
>>> > help to deal with enquiries.
>>> >
>>> > All best
>>> > Lucy
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
>>> >> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
>>> >> email.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> - d.
>>> >>
>>> >> ___
>>> >> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>>> >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>>> >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > Lucy Crompton-Reid
>>> >
>>> > Chief Executive
>>> >
>>> > Wikimedia UK
>>> >
>>> > +44 (0) 207 065 0991
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England
>>> and
>>> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513.
>>> Registered
>>> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
>>> 4LT.
>>> >
>>> > Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
>>> Wikimedia
>>> > projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia,
>>> amongst
>>> > other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity
>>> with no
>>> > legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
>>> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>>> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>
>
>
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[David Gerard]

That is literally what the task is, yes :-)

On 9 February 2017 at 15:41, Chris Keating 
wrote:

> Hmmm, trying to turn an interview from "zomg! Wikipedia bans the Mail!"
> round to "actually this is all normal and we have some really interesting
> community preferences" sounds tricky. ;)
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> Usual line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
>> editors" then email here ;-D
>>
>> so er, editors?
>>
>> On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
>>  wrote:
>> > Hi all
>> >
>> > Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great if
>> > someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in
>> particular
>> > the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as
>> it's
>> > clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If someone
>> > does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
>> >
>> > The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
>> > fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes up
>> and
>> > comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which would
>> > help to deal with enquiries.
>> >
>> > All best
>> > Lucy
>> >
>> >
>> > On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
>> >> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
>> >> email.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - d.
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Lucy Crompton-Reid
>> >
>> > Chief Executive
>> >
>> > Wikimedia UK
>> >
>> > +44 (0) 207 065 0991
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
>> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
>> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
>> 4LT.
>> >
>> > Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
>> Wikimedia
>> > projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia,
>> amongst
>> > other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with
>> no
>> > legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[Chris Keating]

Hmmm, trying to turn an interview from "zomg! Wikipedia bans the Mail!"
round to "actually this is all normal and we have some really interesting
community preferences" sounds tricky. ;)

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard  wrote:

> Usual line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
> editors" then email here ;-D
>
> so er, editors?
>
> On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
>  wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great if
> > someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in
> particular
> > the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as it's
> > clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If someone
> > does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
> >
> > The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
> > fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes up
> and
> > comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which would
> > help to deal with enquiries.
> >
> > All best
> > Lucy
> >
> >
> > On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:
> >>
> >> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
> >> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
> >> email.
> >>
> >>
> >> - d.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> >> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> >> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Lucy Crompton-Reid
> >
> > Chief Executive
> >
> > Wikimedia UK
> >
> > +44 (0) 207 065 0991
> >
> >
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
> Wikimedia
> > projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia,
> amongst
> > other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with
> no
> > legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[David Gerard]

Usual line is "editorial decision, I'll forward your details to some
editors" then email here ;-D

so er, editors?

On 9 February 2017 at 13:45, Lucy Crompton-Reid
 wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great if
> someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in particular
> the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as it's
> clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If someone
> does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?
>
> The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
> fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes up and
> comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which would
> help to deal with enquiries.
>
> All best
> Lucy
>
>
> On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:
>>
>> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
>> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
>> email.
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lucy Crompton-Reid
>
> Chief Executive
>
> Wikimedia UK
>
> +44 (0) 207 065 0991
>
>
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
>
> Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia
> projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst
> other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no
> legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[Lucy Crompton-Reid]

Hi all

Thanks very much for flagging this David. I think it would be great if
someone could talk about this from an editor's perspective - in particular
the process of consensus building within the Wikipedia community, as it's
clear many people working in the media don't understand this. If someone
does respond to you directly, please could you let me know?

The office has had a flood of emails and phone calls which we've been
fielding as best as we can. I'm hoping that when San Francisco wakes up and
comes online they will send me their statement on the issue, which would
help to deal with enquiries.

All best
Lucy


On 9 February 2017 at 13:38, David Gerard  wrote:

> BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
> tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
> email.
>
>
> - d.
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk




-- 

Lucy Crompton-Reid

Chief Executive

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 207 065 0991



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.

Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

[Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight want to do Daily Mail vs WP:RS tonight - editor on hand?

[David Gerard]

BBC Newsnight want a Wikipedia editor who can talk about this, for
tonight. I can't, can anyone else? Email me and I'll forward you the
email.


- d.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk