Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
At 11:46 -0700 11/8/09, Cary Bass wrote: >-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >Hash: SHA1 > >Michael Peel wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Anyone interested in the below? As I understand it, they want to >> cover the range of philosophies on Wikipedia - they already have >> people involved with an inclusionist or middle-ist point of view, >> but no-one from a deletionist viewpoint. >> >> Thanks, Mike > > >Why can't we discourage them from even using these names to pigeonhole >people. I've always hated the terms "inclusionist" and "deletionist" >because they don't even remotely explain the differences among our >contributors. > >Most of us would like to see more articles about some topic and less >about another. I have no problem having a stub article on every >geographic feature in Burkina Faso, while at the same time getting rid >of every single episode synopses of My Friend Flika. > >- -- >Cary Bass >Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation Never let the facts get in the way of a good story... Gordo -- "Think Feynman"/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ gordon.j...@pobox.com/// ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Kwan Ting Chan wrote: Yes, I fear the BBC story is going to over simplify the issues in order to keep outsiders interested and to allow them to understand it. If they do find a "passionate Deletionist" then they will have somebody very much on the fringe of the community. >>> >>> Anyone want to sign up for the role then speak sweet reason? >>> >>> (I would but I think people would choke if I put myself forward as a >>> "deletionist".) >> >> Had they made a more general request I might have done, but I too >> can't really describe myself as a deletionist, even in a very loose >> sense. > > I can pretend. :D So... where are they getting this deletionism stuff from? It's as if someone brought out a press release: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/aug/12/wikipedia-deletionist-inclusionist ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/8/11 David Gerard : 2009/8/11 Thomas Dalton : Yes, I fear the BBC story is going to over simplify the issues in order to keep outsiders interested and to allow them to understand it. If they do find a "passionate Deletionist" then they will have somebody very much on the fringe of the community. Anyone want to sign up for the role then speak sweet reason? (I would but I think people would choke if I put myself forward as a "deletionist".) Had they made a more general request I might have done, but I too can't really describe myself as a deletionist, even in a very loose sense. I can pretend. :D -- Experience is a good school but the fees are high. - Heinrich Heine PGP.sig Description: PGP signature ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Peel wrote: > Hi all, > > Anyone interested in the below? As I understand it, they want to > cover the range of philosophies on Wikipedia - they already have > people involved with an inclusionist or middle-ist point of view, > but no-one from a deletionist viewpoint. > > Thanks, Mike > Why can't we discourage them from even using these names to pigeonhole people. I've always hated the terms "inclusionist" and "deletionist" because they don't even remotely explain the differences among our contributors. Most of us would like to see more articles about some topic and less about another. I have no problem having a stub article on every geographic feature in Burkina Faso, while at the same time getting rid of every single episode synopses of My Friend Flika. - -- Cary Bass Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqBvIIACgkQyQg4JSymDYmbagCcDNuzqB/Ha7TnbEz7sCuXByxm HI0An27VyflW0Hf+W1Iwh15dsQZsaWip =oEfJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
2009/8/11 David Gerard : > 2009/8/11 Thomas Dalton : > >> Yes, I fear the BBC story is going to over simplify the issues in >> order to keep outsiders interested and to allow them to understand it. >> If they do find a "passionate Deletionist" then they will have >> somebody very much on the fringe of the community. > > > Anyone want to sign up for the role then speak sweet reason? > > (I would but I think people would choke if I put myself forward as a > "deletionist".) Had they made a more general request I might have done, but I too can't really describe myself as a deletionist, even in a very loose sense. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
2009/8/11 Thomas Dalton : > Yes, I fear the BBC story is going to over simplify the issues in > order to keep outsiders interested and to allow them to understand it. > If they do find a "passionate Deletionist" then they will have > somebody very much on the fringe of the community. Anyone want to sign up for the role then speak sweet reason? (I would but I think people would choke if I put myself forward as a "deletionist".) - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
2009/8/11 James Forrester :
> From my (archaic? ;-)) relatively inclusionist PoV (the specific
> 'camp' with which I most closely identified/y was "eventualism"), I
> consider the prevailing attitude on enwiki to be rather more
> deletionist than it was in the "early days" ('02-'04); the 2005-6
> period was considerably more deleitionist still, certainly, and we've
> relented from that to an extent, but mostly in the form of subject
> beach-heads combined with draconian rules for the unwary (the CSAs in
> particular); I feel that the enwiki community at large is slowly
> drifting further towards the inclusionist mentality, but at the same
> time, away from the eventualist PoV, which the CSAs undermines.
I think that is an excellent summary of the situation (although I have
no idea what a CSA is...). I wasn't very active during the early days,
but from what I did see you seem to be right - it was very much an
"anything goes" culture. Then we started to get noticed and people
took reputation more seriously and I think that is what started the
move towards deletionism. I think we're moving back away from that now
because most of the really important articles have already been
written so one reason to complain about less important articles no
longer applies - we aren't writing them at the expense of more
important articles to the same extent (not that that argument was
every particularly good - often you just lose contributors by deleting
their articles, you don't get them to write something else instead). I
think the move away from eventualism is because people start reading
our articles almost straight away now, so we can't just ignore the
current state of articles. I have some eventualist tendencies and I've
noticed them reducing over the last couple of years - I think these
days no article actually is better than a bad article.
> A proper consideration of this multi-dimensionality could be
> interesting for community members, but (a) difficult to put across,
> and (b) not necessarily as interesting, to outsiders.
Yes, I fear the BBC story is going to over simplify the issues in
order to keep outsiders interested and to allow them to understand it.
If they do find a "passionate Deletionist" then they will have
somebody very much on the fringe of the community.
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
2009/8/11 Thomas Dalton :
> 2009/8/11 geni :
>> 2009/8/10 Michael Peel :
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Anyone interested in the below? As I understand it, they want to
>>> cover the range of philosophies on Wikipedia - they already have
>>> people involved with an inclusionist or middle-ist point of view, but
>>> no-one from a deletionist viewpoint.
>>
>> Could be tricky. Classic deletionism is largely a spent force to the
>> point where the deletion/inclusion argument isn't anywhere near the
>> conflict it used to be. What do they need from those who take part?
>> Heh I would still tend to identify as a deletionist but for somewhat
>> different reasons than classic deletionism.
>
> That's what I was thinking - there are very few people that actually
> fall neatly into one of those categories. If they portray Wikipedia as
> having a deletion/inclusion divide it will be rather misleading. We've
> pretty much reached a consensus on what it means to be notable, it's
> just how to apply that to individual cases that gives us material for
> our much loved dramas.
>From my (archaic? ;-)) relatively inclusionist PoV (the specific
'camp' with which I most closely identified/y was "eventualism"), I
consider the prevailing attitude on enwiki to be rather more
deletionist than it was in the "early days" ('02-'04); the 2005-6
period was considerably more deleitionist still, certainly, and we've
relented from that to an extent, but mostly in the form of subject
beach-heads combined with draconian rules for the unwary (the CSAs in
particular); I feel that the enwiki community at large is slowly
drifting further towards the inclusionist mentality, but at the same
time, away from the eventualist PoV, which the CSAs undermines.
A proper consideration of this multi-dimensionality could be
interesting for community members, but (a) difficult to put across,
and (b) not necessarily as interesting, to outsiders.
J.
--
James D. Forrester
jdforres...@wikimedia.org | jdforres...@gmail.com
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
2009/8/11 geni : > 2009/8/10 Michael Peel : >> Hi all, >> >> Anyone interested in the below? As I understand it, they want to >> cover the range of philosophies on Wikipedia - they already have >> people involved with an inclusionist or middle-ist point of view, but >> no-one from a deletionist viewpoint. >> >> Thanks, >> Mike > > Could be tricky. Classic deletionism is largely a spent force to the > point where the deletion/inclusion argument isn't anywhere near the > conflict it used to be. What do they need from those who take part? > Heh I would still tend to identify as a deletionist but for somewhat > different reasons than classic deletionism. That's what I was thinking - there are very few people that actually fall neatly into one of those categories. If they portray Wikipedia as having a deletion/inclusion divide it will be rather misleading. We've pretty much reached a consensus on what it means to be notable, it's just how to apply that to individual cases that gives us material for our much loved dramas. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
2009/8/10 Michael Peel : > Hi all, > > Anyone interested in the below? As I understand it, they want to > cover the range of philosophies on Wikipedia - they already have > people involved with an inclusionist or middle-ist point of view, but > no-one from a deletionist viewpoint. > > Thanks, > Mike Could be tricky. Classic deletionism is largely a spent force to the point where the deletion/inclusion argument isn't anywhere near the conflict it used to be. What do they need from those who take part? Heh I would still tend to identify as a deletionist but for somewhat different reasons than classic deletionism. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: UK Deletionists - a request
Hi all, Anyone interested in the below? As I understand it, they want to cover the range of philosophies on Wikipedia - they already have people involved with an inclusionist or middle-ist point of view, but no-one from a deletionist viewpoint. Thanks, Mike Begin forwarded message: > From: "Catherine Edwards-BBC People" > Date: 10 August 2009 18:15:10 BDT > To: > Subject: UK Deletionists - a request > > Dear Michael, > > Thanks very much for helping us out with this. > > We're making a documentary about the history of the World Wide Web, > Digital Revolution, for BBC Two. A major part of our first > programme, about power on the web, centres around Wikipedia. As > part of this, we're hoping to find a UK Wikipedian who is a > passionate Deletionist - someone who identifies with the goals of > Deletionism to create a high quality encyclopaedia, and does > Deletionist-type quality control themselves - perhaps someone who > is a member of the Association of Deletionist Wikipedians? > > A bit more about the series: we're marking the 20th anniversary of > the creation of the World Wide Web with a major multi-platform > event: Digital Revolution (working title). This comprises an > interactive website/blog, already launched ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/ > digitalrevolution/), and four landmark documentaries for broadcast > on BBC Two at the beginning of 2010, in the UK and across the > world. Revealing the longer hidden history of technological > innovation, we will assess the meaning of an extraordinary > phenomenon now transforming our everyday lives, communities and > institutions. > > If you fit the description and would like to be involved, it'd be > great to hear from you! Get in touch by email - > catherine.edwa...@bbc.co.uk, or by phone - 07800 794299. > > Thank you, > > Cathy > > Cathy Edwards > Digital Revolution > Room MC4 C6, BBC Media Centre, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ > M 07800 794299 > > digital revolution (working title) is an open and collaborative > documentary about how the web is changing our lives > join the conversation on the web at www.bbc.co.uk/digitalrevolution > or follow us on twitter @BBCDigRev > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain > personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless > specifically stated. > If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. > Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in > reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. > Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. > Further communication will signify your consent to this. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
