Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
On 24/06/2011 11:38, Richard Farmbrough wrote: The charity status will be resolved in time, I am sure. I have been involved in a number of educational charities, and it is just a matter of patience. Since what epoch have we been asked to have patience? Gordo -- Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com http://www.joly.org.uk/ Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
I think there's a number of factors that should be taken into account. Firstly the money is donated to be used, so in the medium term outgoings *should* match incomings. Secondly any organisation should have a reasonable contingency reserve, we are not talking about the situation here where (like some charities, that have been castigated by the Charities Commission, among others) we would have a cash reserve equivalent to 20 years turnover. Thirdly, as a start-up, we cannot predicate too much on the first years figures. Fourthly it is common for spending to overshoot projections and income to undershoot. Fifthly income and expenditure are both lumpy in different ways, a proper accounting system may well deal with this in terms of accruals, but nonetheless cash-flow still has to work. As the organisation needs to budget a year ahead, and has no guarantee of income it is not, perhaps, unreasonable - and certainly sustainable - to budget expenditure based on the predicted cash balance at the beginning of the year. To do otherwise risks making financial commitments with no certainty of being able to fund them. On 24/06/2011 17:45, Thomas Dalton wrote: On 24 June 2011 13:09, Chris Keatingchriskeatingw...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this as well, but observe that a big plan to spend lots of money over the long term is something that takes time to develop if it is to be effective. Sure, but if the plan isn't going to be ready until next year, then pay for it out of next year's budget. There is no need to keep this year's budget back for it. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
On 26 June 2011 13:17, Richard Farmbrough rich...@farmbrough.co.uk wrote: As the organisation needs to budget a year ahead, and has no guarantee of income it is not, perhaps, unreasonable - and certainly sustainable - to budget expenditure based on the predicted cash balance at the beginning of the year. To do otherwise risks making financial commitments with no certainty of being able to fund them. We chose our financial year to start on 1 February so that we would know the results of the fundraiser (which is where we get 99% of our revenue) before the budget was finalised. The budget the previous board came up with was based on the actual amount of money we had available to spend. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
The charity status will be resolved in time, I am sure. I have been involved in a number of educational charities, and it is just a matter of patience. On funding, there is plenty to do, let us not be desperate to dispose of funds that we may well need later on. For example I am trying to get more involved in the (possibly doomed) attempt to save Stamford Museum, and one thing that has come to my mind is that mirroring the museum on line would be a worthwhile effort. This could be done either by throwing money at it, or by selectively working with a mixture of volunteer and paid effort, and building a procedure that would allow the process to be replicated elsewhere. I prefer the latter. One a project like this blossoms, though, the costs multiply.The same would apply to, for example, schools out-reach. If we pilot a programme in year one, say one or two volunteers visiting a dozen schools each, with expenses of maybe £100 per visit, then £2,400 will hardly dent the coffers. But year two we might have twenty or thirty volunteers, and be running the program at £36,000 pa. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
On 24 June 2011 11:38, Richard Farmbrough rich...@farmbrough.co.uk wrote: The charity status will be resolved in time, I am sure. I have been involved in a number of educational charities, and it is just a matter of patience. I agree, but the membership should still be kept up-to-date on where things stand. On funding, there is plenty to do, let us not be desperate to dispose of funds that we may well need later on. We can expect revenue to increase substantially over the next few years, so we really don't need to save money to spend in those years. It's also not sustainable - if we use this years money to fund extra projects (particularly long-term projects like the one you mention) next year, what will we do the year after? Apart from a prudent reserve, the general principle that funds should be spend promptly is a good one. It's not immutable, certainly, but there should be a very good reason for deviating from it. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
I agree, but the membership should still be kept up-to-date on where things stand. I quite agree On funding, there is plenty to do, let us not be desperate to dispose of funds that we may well need later on. We can expect revenue to increase substantially over the next few years, so we really don't need to save money to spend in those years. It's also not sustainable - if we use this years money to fund extra projects (particularly long-term projects like the one you mention) next year, what will we do the year after? Apart from a prudent reserve, the general principle that funds should be spend promptly is a good one. It's not immutable, certainly, but there should be a very good reason for deviating from it. I agree with this as well, but observe that a big plan to spend lots of money over the long term is something that takes time to develop if it is to be effective. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
On 24 June 2011 13:09, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this as well, but observe that a big plan to spend lots of money over the long term is something that takes time to develop if it is to be effective. Sure, but if the plan isn't going to be ready until next year, then pay for it out of next year's budget. There is no need to keep this year's budget back for it. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
Nor do I like the idea of viewing the charity application as being adversarial, and no, the CC aren't out to get us. That wasn't what I was trying to imply. However, it is a negotiation process, involving third parties as well as us and the CC. There are different possible angles to take - some productive; some counter-productive - and while those discussions are definitely being had, it doesn't necessarily help for them to be public discussions. I don't think it would be wise to publicly discuss snags, for example. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On 22 June 2011 09:58, Martin Poulter infob...@gmail.com wrote: Just to be clear, the Board are giving charity status the highest priority- you can take that as given. However, we're very concerned not to show our hand by discussing those negotiations more widely. In that respect, the lack of detail in public communications is a sign of how seriously we take the issue. I'm not sure I like the idea of viewing the charity application as being adversarial. The CC aren't out to get us, they just need to be helped to understand what we do and realise that it is charitable. We should be being open with the CC, not trying to bluff them. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- Dr Martin L Poulter ICT Manager, The Economics Network Based at the ILRT, University of Bristol: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/ The full experience: http://infobomb.org/ Wikipedia contributor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MartinPoulter Board member of Wikimedia UK: http://uk.wikimedia.org/ Creating a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
Just to be clear, the Board are giving charity status the highest priority- you can take that as given. However, we're very concerned not to show our hand by discussing those negotiations more widely. In that respect, the lack of detail in public communications is a sign of how seriously we take the issue. On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: In addition to the charity status already mentioned (which is extremely concerning in its absence), -- Dr Martin L Poulter ICT Manager, The Economics Network Based at the ILRT, University of Bristol: http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/ The full experience: http://infobomb.org/ Wikipedia contributor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MartinPoulter Board member of Wikimedia UK: http://uk.wikimedia.org/ Creating a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
On 22 June 2011 09:58, Martin Poulter infob...@gmail.com wrote: Just to be clear, the Board are giving charity status the highest priority- you can take that as given. However, we're very concerned not to show our hand by discussing those negotiations more widely. In that respect, the lack of detail in public communications is a sign of how seriously we take the issue. I'm not sure I like the idea of viewing the charity application as being adversarial. The CC aren't out to get us, they just need to be helped to understand what we do and realise that it is charitable. We should be being open with the CC, not trying to bluff them. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
On 22/06/2011 09:58, Martin Poulter wrote: Just to be clear, the Board are giving charity status the highest priority- you can take that as given. Many thanks. Looking out for timescales, outlook, snags, changes in legislation and the rest. Gordon -- Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com http://www.joly.org.uk/ Don't Leave Space To The Professionals! ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
To deal with these points one by one; * Charity status - a bit of a change of tack here. We are seeking a meeting with the Charity Commission to work out some issues face to face, and the objective is to submit a revised application in August. * Recruitment - We're recruiting the Chapter Manager position and the Office Manager position. The logic is that the senior post will have a very heavy input into the development of our staff structure, which is as it should be - while there is an obvious workload for the Office Manager to get on with. * Budget/underspend - yes, we will be underspent on staff, we're overspending on some other areas (for instance, the Opportunity Fund, where we haven't yet said no to a proposal from an individual for money to make something cool happen). The way we are working is to look at the long-term development of the organisation. Thinking OMG we have money we must spend it now! is not the right way to take decisions. The Charity Commission says charities need to spend money reasonably promptly to fulfill their objects and that is what we intend to do, but reasonably promptly does not require us to spend money within 12 months of receipt. We need to develop an outline 2012 Budget by October 1st (this is one of the fundraiser deadlines). In doing so we will take into account the likely 2011 underspend. Speaking personally, if I think we have a level of reserves that is too high as we enter 2012, I will suggest we make a further transfer to the Foundation. Hope this helps, Chris On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: In addition to the charity status already mentioned (which is extremely concerning in its absence), I'm concerned about the budget. Recruiting just a CEO (or whatever they end up being called - please don't forget that Chapter Manager was agreed as a placeholder name by the last board and shouldn't be used as the final name without a lot of thought. I still think a more standard name that outsiders will understand is needed) and an office manager and then letting the CEO handle the recruitment of the rest of the staff was originally my preferred strategy. I changed my mind when I saw how much money we were making in the last fundraiser and realised that we needed to speed things up. If you go along with your preferred strategy, especially getting off to such a slow start (I know that's partly the fault of the last board, and take my share of the blame, but the new board was formed 2 months ago and hasn't moved particularly fast so far), then you are going to massively underspend on budget. What is the plan to deal with that? The charity commission aren't going to be impressed if we're raising lots of money and not spending it. On 15 June 2011 20:03, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, There is a brief write-up of the Board's two-day-long face-to-face meeting last weekend, up on our blog: http://bit.ly/jTHRLi Key highlights are; - we're going ahead with advertising for two staff, a Chapter Manager and an Office Manager - we've committed ourselves to participating in the 2011 Wikimedia Fundraiser - we did a lot of useful work that's necessary for the development of a long-term strategy - we'll share this with you guys shortly (we're waiting for the notes to be typed up!) There will be more details on all of this soon, but we thought it was best to share what we have now rather than wait. Regards, Chris ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
While there is no absolute requirement to spend money within a year, there is a requirement to justify your reserves. Having big reserves just because you didn't get around to spending it isn't going to sit very well. Yes, this is the case. However, the Charities Commission is quite used to charities which are going through the same transition that we are. They're also used to charities which have a very large level of reserves. My current employer managed to build up reserves of £20 million during the noughties (plus a few million more in local branch accounts). I'm doing my best to run that down. ;-) Chris ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] New blog post: Shaping the future of Wikimedia UK
In addition to the charity status already mentioned (which is extremely concerning in its absence), I'm concerned about the budget. Recruiting just a CEO (or whatever they end up being called - please don't forget that Chapter Manager was agreed as a placeholder name by the last board and shouldn't be used as the final name without a lot of thought. I still think a more standard name that outsiders will understand is needed) and an office manager and then letting the CEO handle the recruitment of the rest of the staff was originally my preferred strategy. I changed my mind when I saw how much money we were making in the last fundraiser and realised that we needed to speed things up. If you go along with your preferred strategy, especially getting off to such a slow start (I know that's partly the fault of the last board, and take my share of the blame, but the new board was formed 2 months ago and hasn't moved particularly fast so far), then you are going to massively underspend on budget. What is the plan to deal with that? The charity commission aren't going to be impressed if we're raising lots of money and not spending it. On 15 June 2011 20:03, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, There is a brief write-up of the Board's two-day-long face-to-face meeting last weekend, up on our blog: http://bit.ly/jTHRLi Key highlights are; - we're going ahead with advertising for two staff, a Chapter Manager and an Office Manager - we've committed ourselves to participating in the 2011 Wikimedia Fundraiser - we did a lot of useful work that's necessary for the development of a long-term strategy - we'll share this with you guys shortly (we're waiting for the notes to be typed up!) There will be more details on all of this soon, but we thought it was best to share what we have now rather than wait. Regards, Chris ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
