Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
Perhaps a quick note about Special:Cite? ...said... ==> ...stated..? -Original Message- Michael Peel wrote: > Having said that, I've just looked at the original document: > > http://www.ofqual.gov.uk/files/2009-12-24-plagiarism-students.pdf > > It actually does a pretty good job at giving advice on how to use > Wikipedia. It's just the Telegraph that chose the choice quote and > ignored the advice. ;-) > > It even mentions the School's Wikipedia. > OK, I'm trying now to draft a press release by shoehorning it into the "six sentence" format. This seems to work well enough as a way of seeing what the "story" is. Draft: School students spend an increasing proportion of their free time online, and will not be deterred from spending study time on the Web also. Now Ofqual, the UK's official examination regulation body, has endorsed a guide "Using Sources" that is designed to help students using the Web avoid the hazards, such as plagiarism and unreliable information, by making proper use of sites such as Wikipedia, which produces schools-wikipedia.org and DVD selections especially for this educational sector. Wikimedia UK, the national organization representing the Wikipedia reference site and other online resources, has responded by producing a concise online document aimed at secondary school teachers. Mike Peel, chair of WMUK, said "For all the adverse media comment and robust debate, it is really important that students using Wikipedia understand the correct way to work with this resource, and teachers can help them to a more informed and critical way of using a site that they will all know about and read anyway." The new guide is based on understanding how to look over a Wikipedia page, examine warning notices and references, and follow up clues in the history and discussion of a particular article. It is free content, released under the GFDL license used for Wikipedia. /draft This isn't perfect, clearly. But is this on-message? Would this be what WMUK wanted to say at this time? (NB that Ofqual did not write the guide itself, but endorses what plagiarismadvice.org wrote.) Charles ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
Michael Peel wrote: > Having said that, I've just looked at the original document: > > http://www.ofqual.gov.uk/files/2009-12-24-plagiarism-students.pdf > > It actually does a pretty good job at giving advice on how to use > Wikipedia. It's just the Telegraph that chose the choice quote and > ignored the advice. ;-) > > It even mentions the School's Wikipedia. > OK, I'm trying now to draft a press release by shoehorning it into the "six sentence" format. This seems to work well enough as a way of seeing what the "story" is. Draft: School students spend an increasing proportion of their free time online, and will not be deterred from spending study time on the Web also. Now Ofqual, the UK’s official examination regulation body, has endorsed a guide “Using Sources” that is designed to help students using the Web avoid the hazards, such as plagiarism and unreliable information, by making proper use of sites such as Wikipedia, which produces schools-wikipedia.org and DVD selections especially for this educational sector. Wikimedia UK, the national organization representing the Wikipedia reference site and other online resources, has responded by producing a concise online document aimed at secondary school teachers. Mike Peel, chair of WMUK, said “For all the adverse media comment and robust debate, it is really important that students using Wikipedia understand the correct way to work with this resource, and teachers can help them to a more informed and critical way of using a site that they will all know about and read anyway.” The new guide is based on understanding how to look over a Wikipedia page, examine warning notices and references, and follow up clues in the history and discussion of a particular article. It is free content, released under the GFDL license used for Wikipedia. /draft This isn't perfect, clearly. But is this on-message? Would this be what WMUK wanted to say at this time? (NB that Ofqual did not write the guide itself, but endorses what plagiarismadvice.org wrote.) Charles ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
2010/1/7 Brian McNeil : > There is always the suspicion that those, such as the Telegraph, who > might fear this change to a more critically thinking populace will > dismiss and condemn it. Then again, I, personally, highly value critical > thinking and a more long-term approach to issues and problems. I see the > government accepting people will use Wikipedia, and cautioning them on > how to judge an article, as a highly significant step forward in a > process leading to a more informed and critical electorate. I think the telegraph having published a positive wikipedia story see no reason not to then publish a negative one. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 01:21 +, Thomas Dalton wrote: > 2010/1/7 Bod Notbod : > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Thomas Dalton > > wrote: > > > >> ■ you can find a pre-checked Wikipedia collection > >> of 5,500 articles targeted around the national > >> curriculum at http://schools-wikipedia.org. > > > > Wow! I've been volunteering on Wikipedia since 2004, during some > > periods very heavily, and I've never even heard of that! > > > > I can't believe it has escaped my attention! > > You should have been at the last Wikimedia UK AGM - one of the people > responsible for Wikipedia for Schools gave a very interesting talk > about it. To see Wikipedia for Schools mentioned by the UK Government as a "recommended" educational resource is a delight to me. I interviewed a couple of the people involved when the 08/09 version came out: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/2008-09_Wikipedia_for_Schools_goes_online As is highlighted in the article, through working with wiki volunteers the charity was able to fill out key items on the national curriculum. The whole thing, and the way it is moving, gives me hope that future generations will be taught to be critical of sources that present themselves as an authority. There is always the suspicion that those, such as the Telegraph, who might fear this change to a more critically thinking populace will dismiss and condemn it. Then again, I, personally, highly value critical thinking and a more long-term approach to issues and problems. I see the government accepting people will use Wikipedia, and cautioning them on how to judge an article, as a highly significant step forward in a process leading to a more informed and critical electorate. -- Brian McNeil Wikinewsie.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
2010/1/7 Douglas Gardner : > It might be worth mentioning simple.wikipedia.org? Probably not. Simple is good for people just learning English (either non-native speakers or young children) and I don't think the Ofqual guidance is really aimed at them. We should keep an eye out for opportunities to mention it, though - I used to be an admin there (desysopped due to inactivity), so I recognise the value of the project. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
It might be worth mentioning simple.wikipedia.org? 2010/1/6 Charles Matthews : > Thomas Dalton wrote: >> My draft includes a link to such a guide on Wikipedia - do we need to >> write another one? >> >> > Yes, to address the British teaching profession [[Wikipedia:Researching > with Wikipedia]] isn't really the concise guide that is needed. It looks > like a bunch of generalities addressed to American college students, > frankly. (Like much else on Wikipedia, hah. For reasons that are not > hard to understand.) > > Imagine you're a teacher of a class of sixteen-year-olds, and you're > leaning over the shoulder of one of them looking at a WP article. Your > job is to tell them to click here/scroll there/read the tags at the > top/observe that this section has no footnotes, to some effect, so that > the student has a better idea of how to assess what they're looking at. Ok, fair enough. We will be producing those kind of materials for the schools project anyway, so we can easily make them available online (and probably would anyway - it's just a matter of publicising it). ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
2010/1/7 Bod Notbod : > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > >> ■ you can find a pre-checked Wikipedia collection >> of 5,500 articles targeted around the national >> curriculum at http://schools-wikipedia.org. > > Wow! I've been volunteering on Wikipedia since 2004, during some > periods very heavily, and I've never even heard of that! > > I can't believe it has escaped my attention! You should have been at the last Wikimedia UK AGM - one of the people responsible for Wikipedia for Schools gave a very interesting talk about it. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > ■ you can find a pre-checked Wikipedia collection > of 5,500 articles targeted around the national > curriculum at http://schools-wikipedia.org. Wow! I've been volunteering on Wikipedia since 2004, during some periods very heavily, and I've never even heard of that! I can't believe it has escaped my attention! ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
2010/1/6 Charles Matthews : > Thomas Dalton wrote: >> My draft includes a link to such a guide on Wikipedia - do we need to >> write another one? >> >> > Yes, to address the British teaching profession [[Wikipedia:Researching > with Wikipedia]] isn't really the concise guide that is needed. It looks > like a bunch of generalities addressed to American college students, > frankly. (Like much else on Wikipedia, hah. For reasons that are not > hard to understand.) > > Imagine you're a teacher of a class of sixteen-year-olds, and you're > leaning over the shoulder of one of them looking at a WP article. Your > job is to tell them to click here/scroll there/read the tags at the > top/observe that this section has no footnotes, to some effect, so that > the student has a better idea of how to assess what they're looking at. Ok, fair enough. We will be producing those kind of materials for the schools project anyway, so we can easily make them available online (and probably would anyway - it's just a matter of publicising it). ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
Thomas Dalton wrote: > My draft includes a link to such a guide on Wikipedia - do we need to > write another one? > > Yes, to address the British teaching profession [[Wikipedia:Researching with Wikipedia]] isn't really the concise guide that is needed. It looks like a bunch of generalities addressed to American college students, frankly. (Like much else on Wikipedia, hah. For reasons that are not hard to understand.) Imagine you're a teacher of a class of sixteen-year-olds, and you're leaning over the shoulder of one of them looking at a WP article. Your job is to tell them to click here/scroll there/read the tags at the top/observe that this section has no footnotes, to some effect, so that the student has a better idea of how to assess what they're looking at. Charles ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
2010/1/6 Charles Matthews : > Thomas Dalton wrote: >> >> I agree - my first draft starts off talking about how we support the >> Ofqual guidance and just mentions the Telegraph at the end. The former >> part should be expanded. The Ofqual issuing this guidance is >> newsworthy, as evidenced by the Telegraph writing about it, so we >> should be mostly talking about that. Please add your "riff" to the >> press release. >> >> > Isn't this the topical moment to announce, though, that WMUK will be > posting/has posted on its own wiki a concise but expert-written guide on > how Wikipedia should be used? Amplifying what Ofqual said, and useful > alike to teachers and students. We would of course have to write such a > thing, but that's a matter of cutting GFDL text to length really. (Err, > the site says nothing about GFDL right now.) My draft includes a link to such a guide on Wikipedia - do we need to write another one? > Not to complicate the issue, but basically Ofqual have it right, so this > is a good time to get the attention of the teaching profession with our > message. Think perhaps in terms of aiming at the Times Educational > Supplement. What would they likely print about this? Sending the release to the TES would make sense. I don't think we need anything different for TES than other press - this is a story about education, so they should be interested in it. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
Thomas Dalton wrote: > > I agree - my first draft starts off talking about how we support the > Ofqual guidance and just mentions the Telegraph at the end. The former > part should be expanded. The Ofqual issuing this guidance is > newsworthy, as evidenced by the Telegraph writing about it, so we > should be mostly talking about that. Please add your "riff" to the > press release. > > Isn't this the topical moment to announce, though, that WMUK will be posting/has posted on its own wiki a concise but expert-written guide on how Wikipedia should be used? Amplifying what Ofqual said, and useful alike to teachers and students. We would of course have to write such a thing, but that's a matter of cutting GFDL text to length really. (Err, the site says nothing about GFDL right now.) Not to complicate the issue, but basically Ofqual have it right, so this is a good time to get the attention of the teaching profession with our message. Think perhaps in terms of aiming at the Times Educational Supplement. What would they likely print about this? Charles ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
Charles Matthews wrote: Thomas Dalton wrote: We should issue a statement supporting the Ofqual report and correcting the Telegraph article: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Press_releases/Ofqual_report See the "Wikipedia guide for teachers" thread from 6 December for some online refs I gave for article evaluation. Rebutting what the Telegraph said is probably a cul-de-sac: the Telegraph isn't going to print it, and other papers have no reason to write about the Telegraph rather than some expert source. So I'd suggest developing a press release along the lines of amplifying the good points in what Ofqual said, taking it as an endorsement of "always read the label" type. Needs work, though. What is the story we are putting across? Roughly, there is the "riff" that school students will use the Web, like it or not; and so knowing how to use WP properly is a research skill of our time, just as is using a search engine. Charles ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org I always describe Wikipedia as an "advanced Google". While Google gathers together sources that match your search term, Wikipedia weeds out the facts you are most likely to want, summarises them, and gives you a link to the source. It generally helps people to get the gist. -- George D. Watson ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
2010/1/6 Charles Matthews : > Thomas Dalton wrote: >> We should issue a statement supporting the Ofqual report and >> correcting the Telegraph article: >> >> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Press_releases/Ofqual_report >> > See the "Wikipedia guide for teachers" thread from 6 December for some > online refs I gave for article evaluation. Rebutting what the Telegraph > said is probably a cul-de-sac: the Telegraph isn't going to print it, > and other papers have no reason to write about the Telegraph rather than > some expert source. > > So I'd suggest developing a press release along the lines of amplifying > the good points in what Ofqual said, taking it as an endorsement of > "always read the label" type. Needs work, though. What is the story we > are putting across? Roughly, there is the "riff" that school students > will use the Web, like it or not; and so knowing how to use WP properly > is a research skill of our time, just as is using a search engine. I agree - my first draft starts off talking about how we support the Ofqual guidance and just mentions the Telegraph at the end. The former part should be expanded. The Ofqual issuing this guidance is newsworthy, as evidenced by the Telegraph writing about it, so we should be mostly talking about that. Please add your "riff" to the press release. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
Thomas Dalton wrote: > We should issue a statement supporting the Ofqual report and > correcting the Telegraph article: > > http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Press_releases/Ofqual_report > See the "Wikipedia guide for teachers" thread from 6 December for some online refs I gave for article evaluation. Rebutting what the Telegraph said is probably a cul-de-sac: the Telegraph isn't going to print it, and other papers have no reason to write about the Telegraph rather than some expert source. So I'd suggest developing a press release along the lines of amplifying the good points in what Ofqual said, taking it as an endorsement of "always read the label" type. Needs work, though. What is the story we are putting across? Roughly, there is the "riff" that school students will use the Web, like it or not; and so knowing how to use WP properly is a research skill of our time, just as is using a search engine. Charles ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
2010/1/6 Michael Peel : > Having said that, I've just looked at the original document: > > http://www.ofqual.gov.uk/files/2009-12-24-plagiarism-students.pdf > > It actually does a pretty good job at giving advice on how to use > Wikipedia. It's just the Telegraph that chose the choice quote and > ignored the advice. ;-) > > It even mentions the School's Wikipedia. It does a very good job, IMO. To save other people time, here is the relevant section: "Using Wikipedia as a starting point ‘The free encyclopedia [sic] that anyone can edit.’ (Wikipedia, 2009) Wikipedia can be an excellent starting point for research. However, unlike traditional encyclopaedias anyone can add information on any topic, even you! It may not necessarily be authoritative or accurate. In some cases information may be completely untrue. You must always check the facts in a wiki article ■ check the reference list for the article. ■ carry out further research to find the referenced articles. ■ use the history and discussion pages accompanying an entry to help evaluate whether you can trust the information. ■ you can find a pre-checked Wikipedia collection of 5,500 articles targeted around the national curriculum at http://schools-wikipedia.org. ■ never use Wikipedia as your only source." I couldn't have put it better myself. We should issue a statement supporting the Ofqual report and correcting the Telegraph article: http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Press_releases/Ofqual_report ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] "Schoolchildren told to avoid Wikipedia" - Telegraph
Having said that, I've just looked at the original document: http://www.ofqual.gov.uk/files/2009-12-24-plagiarism-students.pdf It actually does a pretty good job at giving advice on how to use Wikipedia. It's just the Telegraph that chose the choice quote and ignored the advice. ;-) It even mentions the School's Wikipedia. Mike On 6 Jan 2010, at 19:32, Michael Peel wrote: > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/6943325/Schoolchildren-told-to- > avoid-Wikipedia.html > > Perhaps Ofqual are the first people we should be aiming the schools > project at, to teach them how to use Wikipedia properly so they can > pass that guidance on? > > Mike > > ___ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
