Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/26 Gordon Joly :
> At 15:52 + 23/3/09, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>>2009/3/23 Gordon Joly :
>>>  It is important for a local authority or a registered charity to
>>>be prudent
>>
>>The regulators said there was nothing wrong with the Icelandic banks -
>>I think going with what the regulators say is sufficient to satisfy
>>the duty of care. Anyway, this is massively off-topic!
>
> Yes, massively off topic
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7963986.stm
>
> "Seven English councils have been accused of "negligence" for putting
> money into Icelandic banks days before they went bust last October."

Indeed - putting money in after the credit ratings were reduced was
rather foolish, I hadn't realised they had done that!

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Gordon Joly]

At 15:52 + 23/3/09, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>2009/3/23 Gordon Joly :
>>  It is important for a local authority or a registered charity to 
>>be prudent
>
>The regulators said there was nothing wrong with the Icelandic banks -
>I think going with what the regulators say is sufficient to satisfy
>the duty of care. Anyway, this is massively off-topic!

Yes, massively off topic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7963986.stm

"Seven English councils have been accused of "negligence" for putting 
money into Icelandic banks days before they went bust last October."

Gordo

-- 
"Think Feynman"/
http://pobox.com/~gordo/
gordon.j...@pobox.com///

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/23 James Hardy :
> regarding Registered Charity Status
>
> 2009/3/22 Thomas Dalton 
>>
>>   It's not, but getting it soon is. You need an annual income of over
>> £5000 to register, we're not likely to get that kind of money (or
>> pledges for it) for several months at least without including
>> Wikimania sponsorship.
>
> Exactly how strict are the Charities Commission criteria's on this, Do they
> actually need to see evidence of cash in the bank? Are pledges to that value
> enough? What about evidence to support a reasonable expectation of achieving
> greater than that amount?

I think they want firm pledges, but they don't need to see the actual
cash in the bank.

> I am wondering if the foundation was to write a letter stating that:
> A) the WMF received donations totalling over £50,000 in sterling last year
> [1]
> and
> B) in future UK residents and taxpayers will be given the option to donate
> to WMUK (they may even be able to give an idea of what sort of percentage
> have done this when other chapters have gone live)
> and therefore
> C) WMUK can expect approximately £X (where X is greater than 5000) due to
> WMF fund-raising
> then might this be enough for them?

That might not be, but WMF could pledge to top up whatever we make
during the fund-raiser to guarantee that it is more than £5000 (there
would be negligible risk to the foundation in doing this, we all know
the fund-raiser will make more than £5000). That would probably be
enough to satisfy the CC.

> Unrelated to this, I assume that if I donate now and make a declaration that
> I am a UK Taxpayer, that declaration can be held on to and then the tax can
> be claimed back once WMUK is registered. Am I right?

You are correct. (I think we can claim anything from 2 or 3 years
before getting registered, so hopefully there won't be a problem
there!)

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[James Hardy]

regarding Registered Charity Status

2009/3/22 Thomas Dalton 

>   It's not, but getting it soon is. You need an annual income of over
> £5000 to register, we're not likely to get that kind of money (or
> pledges for it) for several months at least without including
> Wikimania sponsorship.
>

Exactly how strict are the Charities Commission criteria's on this, Do they
actually need to see evidence of cash in the bank? Are pledges to that value
enough? What about evidence to support a reasonable expectation of achieving
greater than that amount?
I am wondering if the foundation was to write a letter stating that:
A) the WMF received donations totalling over £50,000 in sterling last year
[1]
and
B) in future UK residents and taxpayers will be given the option to donate
to WMUK (they may even be able to give an idea of what sort of percentage
have done this when other chapters have gone live)
and therefore
C) WMUK can expect approximately £X (where X is greater than 5000) due to
WMF fund-raising
then might this be enough for them?

Unrelated to this, I assume that if I donate now and make a declaration that
I am a UK Taxpayer, that declaration can be held on to and then the tax can
be claimed back once WMUK is registered. Am I right?

[1] Source: Delphine at
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2008-August/002049.htmlwhen
charity status was discussed last year. I am aware that the sterling
zone is not exactly the same as the population of UK taxpayers, but I
suspect that the colonies and crown dependencies that use Sterling are not a
huge factor, neither would foreign taxpayers with sterling accounts/uk
taxpayers with non-sterling accounts, so I think this works as a rough
approximation.


James Hardy
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/23 Gordon Joly :
> It is important for a local authority or a registered charity to be 
> prudent

The regulators said there was nothing wrong with the Icelandic banks -
I think going with what the regulators say is sufficient to satisfy
the duty of care. Anyway, this is massively off-topic!

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Gordon Joly]

At 13:18 + 23/3/09, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>2009/3/23 Gordon Joly :
>>  At 22:31 + 22/3/09, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>>>2009/3/22 Gordon Joly :
   Also recall how local authorities got their fingers burned in Iceland...
>>>
>>>That wasn't due to risky investments, that was due to putting your
>>>money in a bank that then went bust. Hardly their fault.
>>>
>>>_
>>
>>
>>  Only in that they chased a better return offshore?
>
>Of course it was their responsibility. They made the decision to put
>their money in those banks. That doesn't mean it was their fault the
>money disappeared.

Sure. They could have gone with Madoff.

It is important for a local authority or a registered charity to be prudent

Gordo

-- 
"Think Feynman"/
http://pobox.com/~gordo/
gordon.j...@pobox.com///

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/23 Gordon Joly :
> At 22:31 + 22/3/09, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>>2009/3/22 Gordon Joly :
>>>  Also recall how local authorities got their fingers burned in Iceland...
>>
>>That wasn't due to risky investments, that was due to putting your
>>money in a bank that then went bust. Hardly their fault.
>>
>>_
>
>
> Only in that they chased a better return offshore?

Of course it was their responsibility. They made the decision to put
their money in those banks. That doesn't mean it was their fault the
money disappeared.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Gordon Joly]

At 22:31 + 22/3/09, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>2009/3/22 Gordon Joly :
>>  Also recall how local authorities got their fingers burned in Iceland...
>
>That wasn't due to risky investments, that was due to putting your
>money in a bank that then went bust. Hardly their fault.
>
>_


Only in that they chased a better return offshore?

Gordo

-- 
"Think Feynman"/
http://pobox.com/~gordo/
gordon.j...@pobox.com///

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/22 Gordon Joly :
>
>
> Why is registered charity status predicated on a successful Wikimania bid?

It's not, but getting it soon is. You need an annual income of over
£5000 to register, we're not likely to get that kind of money (or
pledges for it) for several months at least without including
Wikimania sponsorship.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/22 Gordon Joly :
> Also recall how local authorities got their fingers burned in Iceland...

That wasn't due to risky investments, that was due to putting your
money in a bank that then went bust. Hardly their fault.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Gordon Joly]

>
>  I know for a fact that Swiss law does not have a "charity may not 
>take significant business risks" provisions, therefore I maintain 
>that this is not a usual practice here.
>But this is really not so important, after all we want to look at 
>how things are done in the UK.
>
>Michael 
>
>
>
>
>--
>Michael Bimmler
>mbimm...@gmail.com


Take a look at housing associations, many of whom are registered 
charities (or Industrial and Provident Societies) and who have been 
involved in swapping toxic assets.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/story.aspx?storycode=6503040


Also recall how local authorities got their fingers burned in Iceland...

Gordo

-- 
"Think Feynman"/
http://pobox.com/~gordo/
gordon.j...@pobox.com///

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Gordon Joly]

Why is registered charity status predicated on a successful Wikimania bid?

Gordo

-- 
"Think Feynman"/
http://pobox.com/~gordo/
gordon.j...@pobox.com///

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[AndrewRT]

On Mar 18, 11:39 pm, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
> ... CC [Charity Commission] will almost certainly want written
> confirmation (unconditionally, that is - what we have at the moment is
> all conditional on us winning the bid)

The CC application form (http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Library/
publications/pdfs/cc5atext.pdf) asks, for charities which do not yet
have statutory accounts, for the "estimated gross income in the first
year of operation". The accompanying guidance notes (http://
www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Library/publications/pdfs/cc5btext.pdf)
go on to say state that "If you do not provide evidence that the gross
annual income will exceed £5,000, such as ... a pledge of funding ...
we will return your application as incomplete"

Hopefully we'll have these by the time the bid is decided.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/19 Thomas Dalton :
> If you really want to know all the ugly details (and don't say I
> didn't warn you!), see:
> http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/publications/cc35.asp

I've just been reading through that guidance again myself, and
actually we might be ok. The conference would probably fall under
"primary purpose trading", which you are allowed to take risks doing.
I knew primary purpose trading was tax exempt without the need for a
subsidiary, but I thought the risk requirement still applied, but it
looks like I may have misremembered that. This is why we need to seek
professional advice on these things!

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/19 Michael Bimmler :
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Thomas Dalton 
> wrote:
>>
>> In the UK, charities aren't legally allowed to take significant
>> business risks.
>
> See, that's one of the points which I didn't know and I'd be interested in
> reading more about it. Is there guidance available on what constitutes
> significant business risk?

If you really want to know all the ugly details (and don't say I
didn't warn you!), see:
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/publications/cc35.asp

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Michael Bimmler]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:

>
> In the UK, charities aren't legally allowed to take significant
> business risks.


See, that's one of the points which I didn't know and I'd be interested in
reading more about it. Is there guidance available on what constitutes
significant business risk?


> How familiar are you with the internal workings of
> these NGOs?


I've interned for two Swiss NGOs and in the second of them, I have been
closely involved (well, as closely as you can be in an office with just 15
employees) in the preparation of the Annual Meeting 2009 of one of them,
which will involve several hundreds of participants, including (European)
heads of states and senior ministers / UN agencies heads. The budget for it
runs into atmospheric heights (what with renting a well-known hotel and
organising a lot of social events), but it has not been "outsourced" to a
trading subsidiary.
 I know for a fact that Swiss law does not have a "charity may not take
significant business risks" provisions, therefore I maintain that this is
not a usual practice here.
But this is really not so important, after all we want to look at how things
are done in the UK.

Michael



-- 
Michael Bimmler
mbimm...@gmail.com
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/19 Michael Bimmler :
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Thomas Dalton 
> wrote:
>> Yes, I think WMF has handled it all in the past, but I think it might
>> be easier if we do it. The WMF won't get the same charitable benefits
>> that we do.
>
> Understood and I defer to the judgment of others on whether it would be
> easier for WmUK (through a subsidiary) or WMF to handle it. I would just
> advise to actually take this up with the WMF (Cary Bass and Mike Godwin)
> before relying on this for strategic planning - it might be that the WMF
> objects to *not* being the formal organiser. I'm not saying they will, I
> just think that this should be confirmed with them before you act according
> to a "We will be Wikimania 2010 organisers" scenario (all of course
> contingent upon whether Oxford actually succeeds in the bid, but this should
> be known rather soon and I actually do not have many doubts ;-)

Indeed. I am sure that, whoever wins, there will be lots of talks
between WMF and the local team before anything happens.

>> Opening a trading subsidiary may become necessary at some
>> point even if we don't need it for Wikimania - for example, if we sell
>> more than £5000 worth (that's income, not profit) of chapter
>> merchandise in a year (that's a lot of merchandise, I know, I think
>> big!) we would be taxed if it didn't go through a subsidiary.
>
> Hm. Well, think big, yes, but I doubt whether Wikimedia France and Wikimedia
> Germany have ever exceeded this sum in a year, and they're both more
> established chapters with a larger country to serve. But then, I'm all for
> optimism...just do make sure to check whether the expenses (time and money)
> for setting up and registering a new subsidiary will not actually exceed the
> profit (or even the income) made in the end. It would be a pity if we paid
> twice as many registration fees than we get from selling merchandise!

Absolutely - it's unlikely to be worth it for merchandise alone, but
that was the first example that came to mind!

>> We also
>> have plans for annual UK conferences (combined with our AGMs) - if
>> those get big enough to involve significant business risk, they would
>> need to go through a subsidiary as well.
>
> But is this really common practice? I can again only speak for Switzerland
> here, but I'm familiar with the practices of a few largish NGOs (Amnesty
> International, WWF etc.) and they never open a subsidiary for their annual
> conferences or indeed any other large event. They just take the risk qua
> charity.
>
> Do you know how this is usually handled in the UK? Do other big UK NGOs
> often create subsidiaries for such and other purposes?

In the UK, charities aren't legally allowed to take significant
business risks. How familiar are you with the internal workings of
these NGOs? Trading subsidiaries are just a technicality, they rarely
get mentioned to the general public. They probably wouldn't open a new
subsidiary for each event, they would just have one for all their
trading activities. "Amnesty International (Trading) Ltd." or similar.
Unless you were closely involved with the inner workings of the NGO,
you probably wouldn't notice anything. If you did business with them
you might receive letters with a few lines of small print at the
bottom, part of which would say "X (Trading) Ltd. is a wholly owned
subsidiary of X", and that's all you would know of it! Trading
subsidiaries don't even need to have separate bank accounts to their
parent (although they need separate accounts in the accounting sense),
so you wouldn't even need to write cheques out to a different name.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Michael Bimmler]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:

>
>
> Yes, I think WMF has handled it all in the past, but I think it might
> be easier if we do it. The WMF won't get the same charitable benefits
> that we do.



Understood and I defer to the judgment of others on whether it would be
easier for WmUK (through a subsidiary) or WMF to handle it. I would just
advise to actually take this up with the WMF (Cary Bass and Mike Godwin)
before relying on this for strategic planning - it might be that the WMF
objects to *not* being the formal organiser. I'm not saying they will, I
just think that this should be confirmed with them before you act according
to a "We will be Wikimania 2010 organisers" scenario (all of course
contingent upon whether Oxford actually succeeds in the bid, but this should
be known rather soon and I actually do not have many doubts ;-)


> Opening a trading subsidiary may become necessary at some
> point even if we don't need it for Wikimania - for example, if we sell
> more than £5000 worth (that's income, not profit) of chapter
> merchandise in a year (that's a lot of merchandise, I know, I think
> big!) we would be taxed if it didn't go through a subsidiary.


Hm. Well, think big, yes, but I doubt whether Wikimedia France and Wikimedia
Germany have ever exceeded this sum in a year, and they're both more
established chapters with a larger country to serve. But then, I'm all for
optimism...just do make sure to check whether the expenses (time and money)
for setting up and registering a new subsidiary will not actually exceed the
profit (or even the income) made in the end. It would be a pity if we paid
twice as many registration fees than we get from selling merchandise!



> We also
> have plans for annual UK conferences (combined with our AGMs) - if
> those get big enough to involve significant business risk, they would
> need to go through a subsidiary as well.
>

But is this really common practice? I can again only speak for Switzerland
here, but I'm familiar with the practices of a few largish NGOs (Amnesty
International, WWF etc.) and they never open a subsidiary for their annual
conferences or indeed any other large event. They just take the risk qua
charity.

Do you know how this is usually handled in the UK? Do other big UK NGOs
often create subsidiaries for such and other purposes?

Regards,
Michael



-- 
Michael Bimmler
mbimm...@gmail.com
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/19 Michael Bimmler :
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Thomas Dalton 
> wrote:
>>
>> If we win the bid, there are all kinds of legal stuff we'll have to
>> sort out - if everything will be done through us (rather than WMF),
>> which I think is likely, we will need to open a trading subsidiary.
>
> Do we know how other Wikimania organising teams did this (Delphine...?)
>
> I can't remember having heard of any local trading company having been
> opened anywhere for this. Was it not usually the WMF that would have signed
> contracts if necessary?
> See also eg. http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Contact
> "Wikimania is a yearly international conference organised by the Wikimedia
> Foundation."

Yes, I think WMF has handled it all in the past, but I think it might
be easier if we do it. The WMF won't get the same charitable benefits
that we do. Opening a trading subsidiary may become necessary at some
point even if we don't need it for Wikimania - for example, if we sell
more than £5000 worth (that's income, not profit) of chapter
merchandise in a year (that's a lot of merchandise, I know, I think
big!) we would be taxed if it didn't go through a subsidiary. We also
have plans for annual UK conferences (combined with our AGMs) - if
those get big enough to involve significant business risk, they would
need to go through a subsidiary as well.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Michael Bimmler]

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:

>
> If we win the bid, there are all kinds of legal stuff we'll have to
> sort out - if everything will be done through us (rather than WMF),
> which I think is likely, we will need to open a trading subsidiary.


Do we know how other Wikimania organising teams did this (Delphine...?)

I can't remember having heard of any local trading company having been
opened anywhere for this. Was it not usually the WMF that would have signed
contracts if necessary?
See also eg. http://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Contact
"*Wikimania* is a yearly international conference organised by the Wikimedia
Foundation ."


Michael
-- 
Michael Bimmler
mbimm...@gmail.com
___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/18 AndrewRT :
> On Mar 18, 12:54 pm, "joseph seddon "
>  wrote:
>> I think that making preparations for both drafting a complaint to HMRC and 
>> preparing an application to CC should start now. Even if the preparations 
>> are only minor. Delaying either by any real length of time could affect 
>> Wikimania significantly.
>
> I agree entirely. Complaint letter has already been drafted and will
> hopefully go out tomorrow. I think the CC application should be ready
> to be put in the post the day after we win Wikimania? Even better,
> anyone know a benefactor willing to give us £4,700? Or a few to give
> us £1,000 each? They can even earmark it to whatever they want, just
> so we get the income to qualify!

You may have to wait a little after we win the bid in order to get
confirmed sponsorships - CC will almost certainly want written
confirmation (unconditionally, that is - what we have at the moment is
all conditional on us winning the bid). If the current board has time
to do it, starting work on the CC application now wouldn't hurt.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[AndrewRT]

On Mar 18, 12:54 pm, "joseph seddon "
 wrote:
> I think that making preparations for both drafting a complaint to HMRC and 
> preparing an application to CC should start now. Even if the preparations are 
> only minor. Delaying either by any real length of time could affect Wikimania 
> significantly.

I agree entirely. Complaint letter has already been drafted and will
hopefully go out tomorrow. I think the CC application should be ready
to be put in the post the day after we win Wikimania? Even better,
anyone know a benefactor willing to give us £4,700? Or a few to give
us £1,000 each? They can even earmark it to whatever they want, just
so we get the income to qualify!

Andrew

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/18 joseph seddon :
> I think that making preparations for both drafting a complaint to HMRC and 
> preparing an application to CC should start now. Even if the preparations are 
> only minor. Delaying either by any real length of time could affect Wikimania 
> significantly.
>
> Our estimates for the venue are based on having charity status and bookings 
> need to happen in quick sucession to winning the bid. If we can start making 
> preparations now it may also alleviate any concerns that the jury/public may 
> have with this.

We are a charity now, just an exempt one that doesn't have tax-free
status. I agree it is something we need to work on ASAP, though -
perhaps something for after the AGM, however, since I think the
current board are rather busy!

If we win the bid, there are all kinds of legal stuff we'll have to
sort out - if everything will be done through us (rather than WMF),
which I think is likely, we will need to open a trading subsidiary. I
think the business risk of hosting Wikimania is too great for a
charity to do it directly. (We'll worry about that after we win,
though!)

PS I am thinking of adding another £10k to the budget for admin,
though - there will be lots of legal fees and accounting fees, at
least some of which should be allocated to Wikimania (some can be
considered general expenses and paid for out of the main WM UK
accounts). Hopefully we can get it done pro-bono, but it should
probably be on the budget.

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[joseph seddon]

I think that making preparations for both drafting a complaint to HMRC and 
preparing an application to CC should start now. Even if the preparations are 
only minor. Delaying either by any real length of time could affect Wikimania 
significantly. 

Our estimates for the venue are based on having charity status and bookings 
need to happen in quick sucession to winning the bid. If we can start making 
preparations now it may also alleviate any concerns that the jury/public may 
have with this. 

Joseph Seddon

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Gift Aid update

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/3/17 Andrew Turvey :
> We are looking at options to complain about this situation and also options 
> for accelerating the timescale for applying direct to the Charity Commission 
> - which needs £5,000 of pledged income first.

Give it a few weeks - if we win the Wikimania bid we'll be talking
about around £150k income, plenty to convince the CC! (Assuming it all
goes through us, not the WMF - there are some details to work out
there, but they can wait until after they announce our victory!)

___
Wikimedia UK mailing list
wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org