[Wikisource-l] Re: International copyright and wikisource

[J Hayes]

According to Joyce foundation “all works published during his lifetime are
in the public domain” [in the EU, UK and Ireland. ]
https://joycefoundation.utulsa.edu/joyce-copyright/joyce-works-copyright-public-domain/

apparently this is a URAA item
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:URAA-restored_copyrights

i do not see that it has ever been deleted on commons.

however "*YES. URAA cannot be used as the sole reason for deletion."*
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Massive_restoration_of_deleted_images_by_the_URAA

here it is a internet archive
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.463592/page/n3/mode/2up

so a bold individual, might well defy precautionary principle and upload
expect a deletion nomination in response.

jim hayes

On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 10:03 AM Nicolas VIGNERON 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Some explanations/clarifications here :
> - applicable law is a millennia old unsolved nightmare, but to make it
> short, both US and local laws are applicable on Wikimedia Commons.
> - when you say "Finnegans Wake by James Joyce", what are you talking
> about exactly? There are a lot of editions, with a lot of
> corresponding copyright (and I would say that some - if not most - of
> them are already public domain in both the local country and US). Who
> is the translator? What is the publication date in the US? Was there a
> copyright notice?
> - "internet barrier" is indeed not possible (hence my first point)
> - "a German subsidiary legal entity" (or any/all other countries) has
> already been discussed many times, in the end it's just not feasible
> (see previous point) nor realistic (US law is probably still
> applicable anyway).
>
> PS: in any case, it will clearly be public domain in the US in 2035,
> which is quite soon (we have files marked to undelete as far as 2160
> on Commons/Wikisource ;) ) and there is a lot more other work to
> transcribe on Wikisource meanwhile.
>
> Cheers,
> Nicolas
>
>
>
> Le mer. 1 juin 2022 à 21:56, J Hayes  a écrit :
> >
> > Yes, there was a wikilivres project in Canada (pma +50) but it fizzled
> out.
> > There have also been attempts to have a local EDP or “fair use” of the
> lesser term, but that would be up to the local wikisource community.
> (English has resisted this)
> > Other institutions have transcription efforts not constrained by commons
> copyright rules. For example, transcribed si.org
> > Sorry about that
> > Jim hayes
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:05 AM Julius Hamilton <
> juliushamilton...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey,
> >>
> >> From what I understand WikiSource’s servers are located in the US and
> must therefore follow US Copyright.
> >>
> >> I would like a much deeper understanding of how copyright is upheld
> online since it’s so easy to access “foreign” websites, of course.
> >>
> >> I would like to upload a book - Finnegans Wake by James Joyce - to
> WikiSource. It’s out of copyright in Europe but on the US, because they
> have different copyright lengths.
> >>
> >> If we assume US copyright law applying to servers physically located in
> the US, that much makes sense. But is there a law that people in the US
> cannot access those same materials on foreign servers where they are not
> copyrighted? If that’s actually a law, how do they enforce that? They would
> need to stick up some kind of internet barrier, internet censorship. Is
> that legal? How could they achieve it? Wouldn’t they basically have to get
> internet service providers to block a certain domain or something? So… the
> government would say, “We heard foreign site X is serving copyrighted
> material to American citizens; block that site for all Americans”? And then
> the foreign site would respond (to get unblocked) by checking the location
> of whoever’s requesting their webpage and probably specifically limit
> content depending on region, to comply with the government? (In which case
> the user could use a VPN.)
> >>
> >> What about where a company is registered?
> >>
> >> Can Wikisource.de - if it’s actually hosted in Germany - host Finnegans
> Wake even if Wikisource is perhaps trademarked in the US or something?
> >>
> >> Does the law work that way, that a company registered in one country is
> responsible for complying with copyright law internationally? (I assume so,
> it sounds likely).
> >>
> >> Anyway: if we cannot host Finnegans Wake on Wikisource.de, is there any
> good workaround? Wikipedia is a very international phenomenon, it would be
> too bad if it only were ruled by American law. Can’t we create a German
> sub

[Wikisource-l] Re: International copyright and wikisource

[J Hayes]

Yes, there was a wikilivres project in Canada (pma +50) but it fizzled out.
There have also been attempts to have a local EDP or “fair use” of the
lesser term, but that would be up to the local wikisource community.
(English has resisted this)
Other institutions have transcription efforts not constrained by commons
copyright rules. For example, transcribed si.org
Sorry about that
Jim hayes

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:05 AM Julius Hamilton 
wrote:

> Hey,
>
> From what I understand WikiSource’s servers are located in the US and must
> therefore follow US Copyright.
>
> I would like a much deeper understanding of how copyright is upheld online
> since it’s so easy to access “foreign” websites, of course.
>
> I would like to upload a book - Finnegans Wake by James Joyce - to
> WikiSource. It’s out of copyright in Europe but on the US, because they
> have different copyright lengths.
>
> If we assume US copyright law applying to servers physically located in
> the US, that much makes sense. But is there a law that people in the US
> cannot access those same materials on foreign servers where they are not
> copyrighted? If that’s actually a law, how do they enforce that? They would
> need to stick up some kind of internet barrier, internet censorship. Is
> that legal? How could they achieve it? Wouldn’t they basically have to get
> internet service providers to block a certain domain or something? So… the
> government would say, “We heard foreign site X is serving copyrighted
> material to American citizens; block that site for all Americans”? And then
> the foreign site would respond (to get unblocked) by checking the location
> of whoever’s requesting their webpage and probably specifically limit
> content depending on region, to comply with the government? (In which case
> the user could use a VPN.)
>
> What about where a company is registered?
>
> Can Wikisource.de - if it’s actually hosted in Germany - host Finnegans
> Wake even if Wikisource is perhaps trademarked in the US or something?
>
> Does the law work that way, that a company registered in one country is
> responsible for complying with copyright law internationally? (I assume so,
> it sounds likely).
>
> Anyway: if we cannot host Finnegans Wake on Wikisource.de, is there any
> good workaround? Wikipedia is a very international phenomenon, it would be
> too bad if it only were ruled by American law. Can’t we create a German
> subsidiary legal entity for it or something?
>
> Thanks very much,
> Julius
>
>
>
>
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[Wikisource-l] Re: 2021 report

[J Hayes]

+1
The report as written is fine with me.
Jim hayes

On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 5:57 AM Ankry  wrote:

> I think that information like "WCUG member X presented a session on Y at
> event Z" would be hard to manage in this form as (1) we have no formally
> managed membership at the moment (maybe we should change this and ask
> interested people for formal declarations at regular intervals? - the list
> on meta is unmaintained and contains initial declarations only) and (2)
> most of us are also members of other formal affiliates and while our
> activity in specific fields can be separated internally, this separation
> would be not verifiable without clear declarations of these members (should
> we ask them for such declarations concerning any Wikisource related
> activity?)
>
> For example, while I am a member of WMPL and participated in the
> organization committee of Źródłosłów 2021, I clearly declared to WMPL that
> I represent the community, not WMPL during the organizational process. But
> neither information about roles of the conference organizing committee
> members, nor this declaration is anywhere in public. Only the results of
> this activity are public.
>
> And I am active in WMPL in non-Wikisource related fields and also in some
> Wikisource-related fields.
>
> Ankry
> W dniu 13.11.2021 o 20:12, Asaf Bartov pisze:
>
> Thank you for starting the report, Ankry!
>
> I think it should be clear what the user group is claiming as an
> activity.  For instance, was the usergroup involved in the creation of the
> Balinese and Javanese Wikisource projects, mentioned under "Milestones"?
> If so, the report should explain how the group was involved; if it is just
> a mention of a milestone for Wikisource (as distinct from a milestone for
> the Wikisource Community User Group), it should be clearly separated from
> the main section of the report, which should be devoted to activities and
> communications of the WCUG.
>
> Likewise, was the user group involved in planning or organizing the events
> mentioned? If so, it should be stated explicitly.  (And if the involvement
> was only that a member of the user group presented at the event, then
> *that* should be stated explicitly (e.g. "WCUG member X presented a session
> on Y at event Z"), avoiding the impression the event itself is
> [co-]organized by the user group.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> A.
>
> Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)
>
> Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
>
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 7:11 PM Satdeep Gill 
> wrote:
>
>> Here is the link to the report:
>>
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_User_Group/2021_Report
>>
>>
>> Best
>> Satdeep
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2021, 7:57 PM Ankry  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> As we are close to the end of this year, I started preparing the 2021
>>> WCUG annual report. Formally, it is due end of November.
>>>
>>> If anyone participated or organized some Wikisource events, please add
>>> appropriate sections.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>Ankry
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[Wikisource-l] Re: Submit a session for WikidataCon 2021

[J Hayes]

That’s very good.
How about wikisource / wikidata wishlist.
You could build by analogy to commons, they are doing categories, and
creators, and some structured depicts - so maintenance categories, authors,
bibliographic metadata including subjects.


On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:29 AM billinghurst 
wrote:

> Do we think that there is anything special that we are wanting to get onto
> the agenda?
>
> I know that I still have my needs around data input and autocompletion
> * improved data input from the Wikisource (something better than WEF), ie.
> better author creation for more pertinent fields; ability to add subpages
> of works more easily with auto-completed data to quicken data input
> * improved ability to interlink between WS <=> Commons <=> WD <=> WP;
> including continued improvements to citation templates
> * from WD, or from WS, create a linked Author page, in a new improved way
> than I can from Phe's tool that does an enWP lookup
> * better search functionality for people; something that allows me to
> search based on birth year, and death year, and maybe fuzzy versions of
> years
>
> -- billinghurst
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Bodhisattwa Mandal" 
> To: "discussion list for Wikisource, the free library" <
> wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: 30/09/2021 5:49:05 PM
> Subject: [Wikisource-l] Submit a session for WikidataCon 2021
>
> Hello all,
>
> After the first two editions in 2017
>  and 2019
> , the
> WikidataCon is taking place again from 29 October to 31 October 2021, but
> this time it will be an online event. You can find the details in the event
> page here - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikidataCon_2021
>
> The call for proposals to present a session on the second and third day of
> the conference is now open until 20 October 2021 (midnight anywhere on
> earth). You are welcome to submit a session in this link -
> https://pretalx.com/wdcon21/submit/beTaVM/info/
>
> The program will have tracks like Sister Project, GLAM, Reimaging
> Wikidata, Tips and Tools which can very well accommodate the
> Wikisource-Wikidata integration and other related works.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bodhisattwa
>
> (On behalf of WikidataCon 2021)
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Systems for proofreading scanned books

[J Hayes]

My suggestions:
Simplified UX to upload works is on the wishlist
But a tool that led to user to interact on multiple projects to produce a
“rough draft” work from a scan would be a great step forward.
Copyright might be eased for a local copy at wikisource, not on commons.
But you would need some community consensus. If you were bringing tools,
they might work with you, you should reach out to them. You could also
transfer over the easy copyright works to wikisource, and retain the loose
ones at your site. (The value to using wikisource is the increased
visibility being integrated in Wikipedia, and community building potential)
So I would brainstorm some goals, and begin a conversation / partnership
with your wikisource language community toward an action plan.
If I can be of help let me know.
Cheers
Jim hayes


On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 1:23 PM Lars Aronsson  wrote:

> In 2005, at the first Wikimania in Frankfurt, Germany,
> Magnus Manske asked me if I could open up my Scandinavian
> book scanning website Project Runeberg to German and
> other languages, or release the software as open source.
>
> I refused, as my software is just a rapid prototype that
> would need to be rewritten from scratch anyway. But I
> said that Wikisource could be used for this purpose. At
> the time, Wikisource was only a wiki for e-text. As a
> proof of concept, I put up "Meyers Blitz-Lexikon" as
> the first book with scanned page images in Wikisource,
> https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Seite:LA2-Blitz-0005.jpg
> and soon after the "New Student's Reference Work",
> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:LA2-NSRW-1-0013.jpg
>
> This was the basic inspiration for the "Proofread Page"
> extension, now used in Wikisource.
>
> In 2010-2011 I tried to use Wikisource, but I thought
> this extension was too hard to work with. From scanner
> to finished presentation, Wikisource was so much slower
> to work with than my own system. By primary gripes are:
> It is too hard to upload PDF files to Commons, it's too
> hard to create the Index page, each page is not created
> immediately (making the raw OCR text searchable), and
> pages hidden in the Page: namespace are not always
> indexed by search engines. Unfortunately, the system
> hasn't improved much in the last decade.
>
> (My criticism of my own website's system is a lot
> harsher, but hits different targets.)
>
> There is also a difference in how we view copyright,
> as my own website can cut corners and scan some books
> that are "most likely" out of copyright, which is
> something Wikimedia's user communities never accept.
>
> In 2012, I thought the time had finally come to rewrite
> my software, but I failed to organize a project around
> this, and instead I continued to use the existing system,
> just adding volume. Indeed, Project Runeberg has grown
> from 0.75 million book pages in 2012 to 3.1 million
> pages today.
>
> Now in 2020, I'm finally tired of my existing system's
> limitations. What should I do? It's not 2005 or 2012
> anymore. What has changed in that time?
>
> I can't move everything over to Wikisource, because of
> the copyright differences.
>
> Should I start to use Mediawiki + ProofreadPage and
> convert my collection to that format?
>
> Should I develop my own modification of Mediawiki?
> Is that a stable ground to work from?
>
> It seems to me that PHP, MariaDB and the architecture
> of Mediawiki with extensions has now been the same for
> a long time. Will this last for the next 20 years?
>
> Or is there today some other existing systems that
> solve the same problem, that weren't available in 2005?
> (And that Wikisource would have picked up, if it were
> started today, instead of developing its own extension.)
>
>
> --
>Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se)
>Project Runeberg - free Nordic literature - http://runeberg.org/
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Various news

[J Hayes]

i would suggest a UX redesign of the visual editor menus, but that was
rejected before -
sad.

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 3:14 PM Sohom Datta  wrote:
>
> I think I read somewhere that the Score extension is stuck on a pretty major 
> security bug that needs to be fixed upstream.
>
> How about a proposal to improve the compatibility of the Page namespace 
> WikiEditor with other extensions (namely the find and replace widget, Visual 
> Editor, the new wikitext editor and if possible syntax highlighting) ?
> Regards,
> Sohom Datta
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:25 AM Ankry  wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if the non-working score extension would be a good candidate here.
>> Few thousand pages in many Wikisources are hit by this problem. And AFAIK 
>> nobody is actively working to fix it.
>>
>> Ankry
>>
>> On 13.11.2020 16:54, Nicolas VIGNERON wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I hope you're all well.
>>
>> I'm sorry I didn't post for a long time, so here is some news (not 
>> exhaustive, feel free to answer with your own news):
>> - first and foremost, the Wishlist is back and it starts next Monday: 
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2021 let's gather 
>> our best idea again this year!
>> - as usual, if you did something related to Wikisource, don't hesitate to 
>> add it on 
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_User_Group/2020_Report 
>> (especially in this strange year, if you did some online activities, I'd 
>> love to hear about it!)
>> - an "Affiliates Data Survey" run by mail and by the Foundation is coming; 
>> I'll get in touch with you soon, if you are interested to share your 
>> experience with the Wikisource community, feel free to contact me in private.
>> - here is a very interesting and promising project to improve 
>> Wikidata-Wikisource Integration : 
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicite/grant/Improving_Wikidata-Wikisource_Integration
>>
>> Finally, as an official user group, the Foundation requires 2 primary 
>> contacts, for now (and since a long time), I'm the only contact, which is 
>> problematic.
>> Also, for me, I'd be happy to have some help ;)
>> Are there any candidates?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> For the WCUG,
>> Nicolas
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: Can You Help us Make the 19th Century Searchable?

[J Hayes]

sorry *10 to 20* minutes per page

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM J Hayes  wrote:
>
> yeah, as we know OCR is a pain point.
> i have some success, using the google ocr button to get a better result
> but i have also done hundreds of 2 column unzip edits, which can take
> me 1 minutes per page.
>
> we have requested an improved OCR at wishlist, which would take a
> comparison of proofread page versus text layer to drive an AI improved
> text layer. but no support. maybe we should propose to internet
> archive?
>
> cheers
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 6:12 PM Lars Aronsson  wrote:
> >
> > Apparently, Brewster Kahle wrote (via Federico Leva - Nemo):
> > > <http://blog.archive.org/2020/08/21/can-you-help-us-make-the-19th-century-searchable/>
> > >
> > > Take for example, this newspaper from 1847. The images
> > > <https://archive.org/details/sim_frederick-douglass-paper_1847-12-03_1_1>
> > > are not that great, but a person can read them:
> > >
> > > The problem is  our computers’ optical character recognition tech gets
> > > it wrong
> > > <https://archive.org/stream/sim_frederick-douglass-paper_1847-12-03_1_1/sim_frederick-douglass-paper_1847-12-03_1_1_djvu.txt>,
> > > and the columns get confused.
> >
> > In my experience, working with ABBYY Finereader Professional,
> > you always need to manually check columns / zoning.
> > For just a few years of one newspaper, this might be a reasonable
> > manual work. But the problem is the same for centuries of
> > thousands of newspapers.
> >
> > When I scanned encyclopedias (printed in 2 columns in 20
> > volumes x 800 pages), I manually checked columns in the OCR
> > program.
> >
> > For Wikisource, we would need a way for the OCR program to
> > indicate how the zones (columns) are identified in the image,
> > and let the wiki user modify these zones before sending
> > each zone to the OCR program. It would be reasonable for
> > the WMF to fund a developer (or team of developers) to create
> > such a solution. There is already some solution for marking
> > parts of a picture, right? This needs to work within pages of
> > a PDF or Djvu file.
> >
> >
> > --
> >Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se)
> >Linköping, Sweden
> >
> >Project Runeberg - free Nordic literature - http://runeberg.org/
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Fwd: Can You Help us Make the 19th Century Searchable?

[J Hayes]

yeah, as we know OCR is a pain point.
i have some success, using the google ocr button to get a better result
but i have also done hundreds of 2 column unzip edits, which can take
me 1 minutes per page.

we have requested an improved OCR at wishlist, which would take a
comparison of proofread page versus text layer to drive an AI improved
text layer. but no support. maybe we should propose to internet
archive?

cheers

On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 6:12 PM Lars Aronsson  wrote:
>
> Apparently, Brewster Kahle wrote (via Federico Leva - Nemo):
> > 
> >
> > Take for example, this newspaper from 1847. The images
> > 
> > are not that great, but a person can read them:
> >
> > The problem is  our computers’ optical character recognition tech gets
> > it wrong
> > ,
> > and the columns get confused.
>
> In my experience, working with ABBYY Finereader Professional,
> you always need to manually check columns / zoning.
> For just a few years of one newspaper, this might be a reasonable
> manual work. But the problem is the same for centuries of
> thousands of newspapers.
>
> When I scanned encyclopedias (printed in 2 columns in 20
> volumes x 800 pages), I manually checked columns in the OCR
> program.
>
> For Wikisource, we would need a way for the OCR program to
> indicate how the zones (columns) are identified in the image,
> and let the wiki user modify these zones before sending
> each zone to the OCR program. It would be reasonable for
> the WMF to fund a developer (or team of developers) to create
> such a solution. There is already some solution for marking
> parts of a picture, right? This needs to work within pages of
> a PDF or Djvu file.
>
>
> --
>Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se)
>Linköping, Sweden
>
>Project Runeberg - free Nordic literature - http://runeberg.org/
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] [Brand Project] Next naming phase

[J Hayes]

Well, people wonder about what might have beens, when WMF is changing
branding to where movement was 10 years ago.
WMF is showing its conservative approach meeting readers where they are,
rather than shaping brand of where we want to go. And collecting money from
large donors.
We need some branding for where we want wikisource to go. Can we have some
wikisource t-shirts with Indic languages on it? My vienna t-shirt is
getting old.
Cheers.

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 7:54 AM Tito Dutta  wrote:

> Greetings and good day,
> >> What you have to ask yourself: If it had been named "Wikipedia
> Foundation"
> >> from the start, would you have left it?
> – That's citing an imaginary situation while dealing with a real problem.
>
> Thanks
> Tito Dutta
>
>
> On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 at 03:44, Lars Aronsson  wrote:
>
>> On 2020-06-19 09:58, Nicolas VIGNERON wrote:
>> > All three options remove the term "Wikimedia" to replace it by
>> > "Wikipedia" and indeed, there is no statu quo option...
>>
>>
>> In my opinion, it was a mistake in 2003, when the foundation was
>> established,
>> to invent a new name for it. If it had been called "Wikipedia
>> Foundation" from
>> the start, it would have been so much easier to explain to friends,
>> collaboration
>> partners and donors what we are. We are a foundation to support Wikipedia
>> (and also its sister projects). Wikisource, Wiktionary and the rest are
>> just that:
>> They are sister projects to Wikipedia, always were, always have been.
>>
>> Only Wikipedia is the groundbreaking innovation that could win the Nobel
>> Prize
>> (for peace, perhaps?). None of the sister projects could qualify for this.
>> While Wikisource is great, we should be humble and grateful that we can
>> benefit from all the money and technology around Wikipedia, including
>> events like Wikimania.
>>
>> What you have to ask yourself: If it had been named "Wikipedia Foundation"
>> from the start, would you have left it? Would you have left Wikisource, in
>> order to administrate your own, separate, independent project? Asaf Bartov
>> does this with Project Ben-Yehuda. I do this with Project Runeberg. These
>> are not part of Wikisource, not part of the Wikipedia/-media movement.
>> But we never broke away from Wikisource. The reason we maintain our
>> own projects is because they are older than Wikisource. It is a lot of
>> extra
>> work to administrate your own project. If this kind of extra
>> administration
>> is your mission in life, perhaps you should leave Wikisource and run your
>> own? See how fun that is.
>>
>> In my case, I could close down Project Runeberg and merge with Wikisource,
>> if it weren't for some differences in licensing. Much of what I have
>> digitized
>> there can not fit in Wikisource. And so I continue to carry the extra
>> burden
>> of administrating my own project. But it's not because I hate the
>> Wikipedia
>> movement or Wikisource. On the contrary, I was active in establishing
>> the Swedish chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation in 2007. And I have spent
>> too much time explaining the difference between Wikipedia and Wikimedia.
>>
>> I wish it had been named "Wikipedia Foundation" from the start. When the
>> burden of dual names was obvious in 2015, I wish the foundation had just
>> renamed itself quickly without asking anyone. It would have been
>> criticized,
>> but now it is criticized anyway after very long and slow process, so no
>> gain.
>>
>>
>> --
>>Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se)
>>Linköping, Sweden
>>
>>Project Runeberg - free Nordic literature - http://runeberg.org/
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] [Brand Project] Next naming phase

[J Hayes]

as Asaf said - they heard the concerns and proceeded anyway.
further engagement is a waste of emotional energy.
we should think about branding of wikisource & transcription as a part
of global transcription efforts. It is a loose network, but we could
be outreaching and organizing more.
cheers.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:37 AM Federico Leva (Nemo)  wrote:
>
> Nicolas VIGNERON, 19/06/20 10:58:
> > Still, I
> > think that the name "Wikipedia" overtaking the whole movement is a bad
> > symbol and an invisibilization of other Wikimedia projects.
>
> Yes, so Wikisource users (and all other Wikimedia projects too) should
> make their specific concerns heard.
>
> It wouldn't be the first time that the WMF board has let the WMF staff
> spend years and millions on some controversial pet project only to
> reverse it at the very last minute because of universal opposition. It's
> tiring that WMF never learns, but we know that promoting free knowledge
> is a constant struggle.
>
> I'm not sure at the moment whether participating in the closed-source
> survey does any good, given it's subject to manipulation (aka political
> spin), but it doesn't preclude other initiatives.
>
> Federico
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource at the Wikimedia Summit 2020

[J Hayes]

Yes, I concur.
I am concerned that the conference will be used to rubber stamp strategic
plan.
There is some unrest among other affiliates, that they are not feeling the
resource support from WMF. And that WMF does not collaborate well with
others.
(Which goes unmentioned in strategic plan)
also you may need to don your "corporate speak" hat in the essay responses
to get invited.

Cdmt, slowking

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 1:08 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Nicolas,
>
> In this summit, we need an experienced Wikisourcer who can strongly
> advocate for the project, so that the project and it's communities does not
> get left behind or forgotten during the implementation phase of strategy.
> This year, we need to send someone who can opine in the implementation
> discussion in such a way, that it is at least ensured on paper, that
> Wikisource will get the support it deserves. It is also needed to
> strategize for Wikisource for future w.r.t. knowledge equity.
>
> Personally I think, you are one of the best persons, we have, to represent
> the entire community and if you decide to go, you have my very strong
> support.
>
> Regards,
> Bodhisattwa
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Dec 2019, 19:37 balaji,  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Thanks Vigneron for starting this up for timely discussion. We need to
>> discuss how and what to present about our group in the conference. We need
>> to take into account about experience, opportunity for people, full
>> availability for the conference.(Not like the same person representing
>> wikisource also doing other activities in conference), etc while selecting
>> the people.
>>
>> p.s. This year I wont be able to travel during that time. So i am not a
>> candidate.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Balaji.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 6:12 PM Nicolas VIGNERON <
>> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> According to the reports :
>>> - 2014 : Micru and Aubrey
>>> - 2015 : Micru and Aubrey
>>> - 2016 and 2017 : Aubrey
>>> - 2018 : Balajijagadesh and VIGNERON
>>> - 2019 : Gurlal Maan
>>>
>>> @Mardetanha and the others: is Friday or Saturday better for you?
>>> I started a poll to find the best day:
>>> https://framadate.org/DWcnhfcsWQRjFKhP (feel free to comment).
>>>
>>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>>
>>> Le mar. 10 déc. 2019 à 13:24, Mardetanha  a
>>> écrit :
>>>
 and do we have the list of previous year participants?
 I am not sure if I can join Sunday, as it is working day in Iran but I
 will do my best
 Mardetanha


 On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:27 PM Nicolas VIGNERON <
 vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> To make it clear, I'm candidate to go to the Summit.
> I'm not sure if I'm the best person to represent this user group (UG)
> as the Summit is a « focused event for conversations on Movement Strategy 
> »
> and I'm not always good at Strategy (especially for such a broad group 
> like
> this UG, indeed we need priorities, hence this meeting ;) ). That said, I
> have a long experience of Wikisource, I was the representative for this UG
> in 2018 so I'm not the worst person either ;)
>
> For the meeting, I'm also available this week. I guess to gather the
> most people sunday at 1 pm UTC (13:00) is probably the best for everyone (
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20191213T13&p1=195&p2=176&p3=263
> ).
>
> Cheers,
> ~nicolas
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