Re: [Wikisource-l] Various news

[Nahum Wengrov]

Thank you, Bodhisattwa! I'm sure you'll do a good job.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 3:30 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As noone has responded to the badly needed request from Nicolas since
> November to be a primary contact person for the Wikisource User Group, I
> can volunteer to take the responsibility for now until someone from the
> Wikisource community expresses interest and take over. If there are any
> objections or comments, please feel free to do so.
>
> Regards,
> Bodhisattwa
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 21:25 Nicolas VIGNERON 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I hope you're all well.
>>
>> I'm sorry I didn't post for a long time, so here is some news (not
>> exhaustive, feel free to answer with your own news):
>> - first and foremost, the Wishlist is back and it starts next Monday:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2021 let's
>> gather our best idea again this year!
>> - as usual, if you did something related to Wikisource, don't hesitate to
>> add it on
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_User_Group/2020_Report
>> (especially in this strange year, if you did some online activities, I'd
>> love to hear about it!)
>> - an "Affiliates Data Survey" run by mail and by the Foundation is
>> coming; I'll get in touch with you soon, if you are interested to share
>> your experience with the Wikisource community, feel free to contact me in
>> private.
>> - here is a very interesting and promising project to improve
>> Wikidata-Wikisource Integration :
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicite/grant/Improving_Wikidata-Wikisource_Integration
>>
>> Finally, as an official user group, the Foundation requires 2 primary
>> contacts, for now (and since a long time), I'm the only contact, which is
>> problematic.
>> Also, for me, I'd be happy to have some help ;)
>> Are there any candidates?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> For the WCUG,
>> Nicolas
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Do we have tools for offline collaboration?

[Nahum Wengrov]

I frequently work offline on he.wikisource. I download the entire pdf file
from commons to my hard drive, and OCR the page I need myself. One can use
the OCR of wikisource and download the text too, I guess, page by page.
Then I proof the text in a Word document, open to the lower half of my
screen, with the pdf open on the upper half of the screen, where I go to
the page I need with acrobat reader, and scroll both windows down or up as
needed.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 11:21 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org> wrote:

> Le 24/03/2018 à 16:22, billinghurst a écrit :
>
> Though that would defeat the purpose of online proofreading with account
> verification. Some of the true value of our online process is that
> contribution builds a level of trust and knowledge and that is reflected in
> both our patrolling and the allocation of autopatrolled status.
>
> How providing tools to make batch work offline would interfere in anyway
> with that? Once the work is done, it can be uploaded to Wikisource with
> whichever account the user want.
>
> Actually, to my mind, the main benefit of the online aspect is the peer to
> peer production model. Also there is no need of a central node carrying
> accounts to take into account the trust given to a particular contributor.
> There is digital signature technologies such as gpg for example. Having a
> central node with a web interface just makes things easier for most users,
> it doesn't improve the trustability of the environment. On the contrary,
> with a single point of failure, we actually rely on a weaker solution on
> this regard.
>
>  Also how would you have access to templates, and components like that
> from off-line?
>
> Well, that just show how innefecient are this tools to continue to
> contribute while being offline. It's allways possible to install Mediawiki
> and download required templates, but currently this process seems way to
> complicated, doesn't it.
>
>
> Also we generally cannot download the images separately as that is usually
> part of the later clean-up where people have the technical skills.
>
> I'm afraid the term "image" misguided your answer. It's seems you
> interpreted that as picture elements from files, while I was talking about
> this files themselves.
>
> So yes, there is the capacity to have the text and proofread the text,
> that actual checking the text against the image is not the sole component
> of proofreading, and further it would not be at all helpful for validation.
>
> There is nothing magic about working directly in a browser. People do
> download and upload all the required material anyway, but on a page per
> page base. The result is just as valid as it is done when transactions are
> operated on a file repository level.
>
> Cheers
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikidata and Wikisource

[Nahum Wengrov]

All this is way more complex than what we have at he.wikisource.

We only link the main ns0 page of a work, and usually we have only one
edition of it. We don't use the index NS much, (since most of our books are
either manually typed-in or OCRed privately and the text uploaded, either
before or after having been proofread. If not proofread, we add a template).

This is the way our veteran users have gotten used to run things. I guess
it drives would-be newcomers away. But we've been experimenting with a few
works done with the Index:/Page: interface and it seems even more confusing
to newcomers who don't know how to create a book from the proofread pages
and see an accomplished result for their efforts.

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> 2016-05-21 11:50 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni :
>
>> Thanks Tpt for the quick response.
>>
>> I feel that that is the situation for most Wikisources: the problem is
>> that it's a static model, and not a procedure.
>>
>
> Exactly what I tried to say : the problem is practical not theorical.
>
>
>> For example:
>> I put a new book in my Wikisource, what should I do?
>> * check if is a new edition of a book in WS
>> if not
>> * check if there is already an item on WD
>> ** if so, check if is work or edition
>> ** if edition --> ok, link it
>> ** if work, create edition, then link it
>>
>> Workflows like this, I think, are not in place.
>> We would need a WikidataWizard :-D
>>
>
> \o/ we definitely need that !
> Who could build such a WonderfulWikidataWizard ?
>
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Discourse for Wikisource mailing list

[Nahum Wengrov]

I vote for it. I'd be happy to serve as gunea pig :P

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> Luis Villa, from WMF, asks if there is a list that wants to try Discourse:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-January/081244.html
>
> Discourse is a (great) software for discussion, and it could be very
> useful for giving order to the many mailing lists that we have in the
> Wikimedia world.
> This list is active but not too much, so I'm asking you if we want to
> propose as guinea pigs :-)
>
> Many great open source projects use Discourse, so we are far from being
> pioneers, and from what I've seen we could really benefit from the many
> features the software has.
> Just look it yourselves:
> discourse.org
>
> Aubrey
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum

[Nahum Wengrov]

@Alex Brollo:
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%90%D7%9D_(%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%92)


On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Alex Brollo  wrote:

> @Nahum: What is "Table interface"? Can you please link a page using it,
> just to take a look?
>
> Alex
>
> 2015-12-01 1:44 GMT+01:00 Nahum Wengrov :
>
>> Multilingual texts are not a priority (35 people in the conference didn't
>>> even mention them, I think).
>>
>>
>> Multilingual texts can either be treated on the ws of its main language.
>> In case of a translation, that would most likely be the destination
>> language. We have examples of English and Russian texts translated into
>> Hebrew and placed side-by-side using Table  interface in he.ws. In other
>> cases the language site could be decided arbitrarily by the original
>> contributor (perhaps according to where he feels more comfortable, either
>> for his personal native language or for the specific community happening to
>> be there), etc. The current form enables flexibility which would be
>> unavialble on a single multilingual site and is most likely to drive
>> possible contributors away. Just my 10 cents, based by my own personal
>> experfience as a veteran he.ws (and former en.wp and he.wp) active
>> editor.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Andrea Zanni 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe it's me,
>>> but I think that we are missing the real, huge point: *we are not ready
>>> for this*.
>>>
>>> I mean, we, as a community: in the few days in Vienna, we discovered how
>>> many problems each Wikisource and community has, and that was the first
>>> time we had the chance to meet and talk (at that scale).
>>> Yes, being all in the same place would maybe shorten the distance within
>>> the international community, but it would be an enormous challenge for the
>>> amount of software tweakings (gadgets, css, proofread page, layouts,
>>> everything), and it would be a real, literal "babel" of languages.
>>> And, remember, without the support of any engineer at the WMF! :-)
>>>
>>> So, please, keep our feet on the ground. Xanadu was the perfect model
>>> for a digital library, and after 50 years is still not real. Our problem,
>>> in Wikisource, is that each community has created little, complicated
>>> gadgets and templates to do amazing things, but the result is that we are
>>> overly complicated.
>>> We need to simplify things, be better for our readers and beginners, new
>>> editors.
>>> Our strength is the community, above everything else.
>>> That we have to nurture and care about.
>>>
>>> As much as I love the idea of a unique, Babelian (Borges style) digital
>>> library, it won't happen if before we don't fix much more urgent things.
>>> Multilingual texts are not a priority (35 people in the conference didn't
>>> even mention them, I think).
>>>
>>> Aubrey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <
>>> nemow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ankry, 29/11/2015 23:22:
>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>> >What about two multilanguage Wikisources? One for RTL languages,
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> >for LTR languages.
>>>>>>
>>>>> ... and the third for some Asian scripts:
>>>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T60729  ?
>>>>>
>>>>> And maybe a separate one for French:
>>>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14752  ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you dig deeper then more such issues.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Again, this problem is already solved: content language can be decided
>>>> per page. As usual, this is blocked on silly bottlenecks on WMF servers:
>>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T69223
>>>>
>>>> Nemo
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum

[Nahum Wengrov]

>
> Multilingual texts are not a priority (35 people in the conference didn't
> even mention them, I think).


Multilingual texts can either be treated on the ws of its main language. In
case of a translation, that would most likely be the destination language.
We have examples of English and Russian texts translated into Hebrew and
placed side-by-side using Table  interface in he.ws. In other cases the
language site could be decided arbitrarily by the original contributor
(perhaps according to where he feels more comfortable, either for his
personal native language or for the specific community happening to be
there), etc. The current form enables flexibility which would be unavialble
on a single multilingual site and is most likely to drive possible
contributors away. Just my 10 cents, based by my own personal experfience
as a veteran he.ws (and former en.wp and he.wp) active editor.

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Andrea Zanni 
wrote:

> Maybe it's me,
> but I think that we are missing the real, huge point: *we are not ready
> for this*.
>
> I mean, we, as a community: in the few days in Vienna, we discovered how
> many problems each Wikisource and community has, and that was the first
> time we had the chance to meet and talk (at that scale).
> Yes, being all in the same place would maybe shorten the distance within
> the international community, but it would be an enormous challenge for the
> amount of software tweakings (gadgets, css, proofread page, layouts,
> everything), and it would be a real, literal "babel" of languages.
> And, remember, without the support of any engineer at the WMF! :-)
>
> So, please, keep our feet on the ground. Xanadu was the perfect model for
> a digital library, and after 50 years is still not real. Our problem, in
> Wikisource, is that each community has created little, complicated gadgets
> and templates to do amazing things, but the result is that we are overly
> complicated.
> We need to simplify things, be better for our readers and beginners, new
> editors.
> Our strength is the community, above everything else.
> That we have to nurture and care about.
>
> As much as I love the idea of a unique, Babelian (Borges style) digital
> library, it won't happen if before we don't fix much more urgent things.
> Multilingual texts are not a priority (35 people in the conference didn't
> even mention them, I think).
>
> Aubrey
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)  > wrote:
>
>> Ankry, 29/11/2015 23:22:
>>
>>> >
 >What about two multilanguage Wikisources? One for RTL languages,
 another
 >for LTR languages.

>>> ... and the third for some Asian scripts:
>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T60729  ?
>>>
>>> And maybe a separate one for French:
>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T14752  ?
>>>
>>> If you dig deeper then more such issues.
>>>
>>
>> Again, this problem is already solved: content language can be decided
>> per page. As usual, this is blocked on silly bottlenecks on WMF servers:
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T69223
>>
>> Nemo
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] more to edition(s) <-> edition or translation of

[Nahum Wengrov]

Wait a minute.
If a work esists in, say, ru.wikisource,
And then someone translates that work and posts his translation under a
free license in he.wikisource,
I am not to link the hebrew version to its source in ru.ws on wikidata,
But to create a seperate wikidata entry for it?
This makes zero sense to me, and we never did it this way on he.wikisource.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 2:25 PM, billinghurst 
wrote:

>
> Thought that the pasted discussion from WD is of interest and adds to our
> recent discussion on interwikis/interlanguage links.
>
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikidata_discourages_interwiki_links
>
> Wikidata discourages interwiki links
>
> Looking at Zhuangzi (Q1074987) 
> *Zhuanhgzi*, I see that this data item is only for the work as it exists
> in Chinese. The work as translated into English is a separate data item,
> and the French Wikisource translation is another data item.
>
> Effectively, this means that Wikidata discourages interwiki links to and
> between Wikisource projects, because they will never be part of the same
> data item. Further, anyone seeking a translation of a work into another
> language must first come to Wikidata and surf the links even to find out if
> translations of a work in another language exist on Wikisource; it is not
> possible to do that from any Wikisource directly.
>
> I thought the whole point of moving the links to Wikidata was to promote
> connections between projects, not to eliminate them. But perhaps I am
> wrong. --EncycloPetey  (
> talk ) 02:19, 26
> July 2015 (UTC)
> @EncycloPetey : There
> are other ways to create interwiki by the help of Wikidata. See s:sv:Bibeln
> 1917  where I have made
> some tests with the Bible (Q1845) .
> The interwiki is created by the help of a Lua-module that follows edition(s)
> (P747)  and edition or
> translation of (P629) . The
> big advantage is that it makes possible to create intewiki to more than one
> page in every project. For example, that page have 13 links to
> enwikisource. -- Innocent bystander
>  (talk
> ) 05:49, 26
> July 2015 (UTC) @Innocent bystander
> :This is very
> interesting, what template (and Lua-module) do you use ? it should be done
> for all wikisources, that often have a lot of translated texts :) --
> Hsarrazin  (talk
> ) 09:43, 26 July 2015
> (UTC) @Hsarrazin : It's 
> s:sv:Modul:Sandlåda/Innocent
> bystander
> 
> who today is included in s:sv:Mall:Titel
> , a template that can be
> found in almost every page on svsource. Observe that the module is not
> secured against loops in the P747/P629-hierarcy. It also needs support by
> the "interwiki-extra"-class in s:sv:MediaWiki:Common.js
> , otherwise you
> cannot have more than one interwiki in each page. -- Innocent bystander
>  (talk
> ) 10:11, 26
> July 2015 (UTC)BTW, another thing the code does: It makes it possible to
> have interwiki to the Text-namespaces in als/bar/frr/pflwikis. -- Innocent
> bystander  (talk
> ) 10:18, 26
> July 2015 (UTC)
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] At wikidata: dissociation of book and edition hiding links between WP and WS

[Nahum Wengrov]

I believe if a work is translated, both copyrights of original author and
of translator should apply. Is that correct? If so, then probably a year
for each should be entered.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2015-06-29 11:25 GMT+02:00 Nahum Wengrov :
>
>> @Billinghurst: Pardon my ignorance, but what's VIAF?
>>
>
> Virtual International Authority File
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_International_Authority_File
>
> Not 100% sure but I think there is both entries for works and for editions.
>
> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] At wikidata: dissociation of book and edition hiding links between WP and WS

[Nahum Wengrov]

@Billinghurst: Pardon my ignorance, but what's VIAF?

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 11:18 AM, billinghurst 
wrote:

> With the WD methodology for each book there is to be an entry for the book
> as the idea/concept. Then for each edition there is to be a separate entry.
>
> Now the difficulty that I am seeing is that WP links to the book/idea.
> Whereas WS links to the edition. So there is no visible relationship from
> each to the other in the WS <-> WP
>
> Now while that may be correct it is problematic. Anyone have any clear
> solution? If it is going to be through indirect linking then we are going
> to need some clever lua work at enWS for Wikipedia linking in {{plain
> sister}} and similarly at the WP side.
>
> While I have attention, VIAF entries for works. Are they related to the
> work or to an edition or is it both?  I see that the translations of works
> have a year in VIAF, and as that relates to an author it may be right but
> it seems inconsistent.
>
> Regards, Billinghurst
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] HOCR service

[Nahum Wengrov]

Hello Phil,
Thanks for the script!
Our MediaWiki:common.js already has a line reading:
mw.loader.load('//
wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:OCR.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript'
);
Should I replace it with your line or keep it and just add yours?
Thanks!


On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Philippe Elie  wrote:

> Hi, I have setup a new OCR service on tools.wmflabs.org, it provides
> through some javascript hosted on wikisource.org location data of words
> for djvu/pdf Index:. It can be used by adding
>
> mw.loader.load('//
> wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Hocr.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s'
> );
>
> to your site wide MediaWiki:Common.js or to your own User Common.js, the
> script
> works in Page: namespace, in edit or view mode. There is no user interface
> except double click on a word should highlight the words on the scan. I
> found
> it very useful for encyclopedia when it can be time consuming to retrieve
> the
> possition of words on the image.
>
> As the ocr and profread text are always different, the location of word is
> often shifted by one or more word, location provided is only approximate.
>
> --
> Phe
>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Multilingual Books

[Nahum Wengrov]

FWIW, my opinion is, if its primary language, or even one of its primary
languages, is English, post it to the English wikisource. But that's just
my opinion. Reason: English wikisource is likely to get more readers.


On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Where is the best hosting this kind of books below  in Wikisource...
>
> http://dsal.uchicago.edu/books/lsi/
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
>
>
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[Wikisource-l] Wikilivres.ca

[Nahum Wengrov]

Hello all,
does anyone know what happened to wikilivres.ca and why did it disappear?
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Blogpost on Wikisource

[Nahum Wengrov]

It is on our sitenotice and on the village pump in Hebrew Wikisource, also
was translated to Hebrew.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:

> Thanks
> Dmytro.
>
> Some en.source (and oldwikisource.org) admins should be on this list
> though:
> can you guys promote it on the sitenotice?
>
> Aubrey
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Dmytro Dziuma wrote:
>
>> I asked administrators of the English Wikisource a couple of days ago
>>
>> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Wikisource_survey
>>
>> But I was not lucky to get any attention. I would say, it is quite
>> strange for the biggest Wikisource domain, but anyway...
>>
>> I can verify that the link is in the site notice of the Ukrainian
>> Wikisource (I've done it myself as I'm an administrator there). However I
>> don't see it on the Russian Wikisource .
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Dmytro Dziuma as DixonD
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Andrea Zanni 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know how many of you follow the Wikimedia blog, but few days ago
>>> we got posted:
>>> http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/10/15/october-report-on-wikisource/
>>>
>>> The good thing is that the survey link was there so right now we have
>>> more than 70 surveys completed.
>>>
>>> The bad thing is that many wikisources did not propmote the survey in
>>> their village pump/sitenotice.
>>> Could you please check your own Wikisource and paste the link?
>>> https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_6taoDVAWcg6vSIZ
>>>
>>> English, German, Spanish sources don't have it.
>>> I can't check myself Ukranian, Russian, Hebrew and Hindi though.
>>>
>>> Aubrey
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Edwardsbot

[Nahum Wengrov]

It's also confusing that the message is translated, leading recipients to
assume the list is interlingual.It would be better to send the main message
in English, adding a short message at its beginning in the recipients'
languages that this message is for English speakers, and apology if
recipient doesn't read it. Just my 2 cents.


On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Andrea Zanni wrote:

> Hi Ronnie,
> the message for joining the Wikisource User Group, among other news,
> was prepared by me (Aubrey) and Micru and translated by other fellow users
> in different languages.
>
> We did not send the message to all users of all wikisources, but we used
> Wikisource user statistics
> to select active users.
> You can find the list here:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikisource_contributors
>
> The message sent is here:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_User_Group/Invitation
>
> Unfortunately (from what I can understand), EdwardsBot sign himslef as a
> bot, so this probably led to some confusion.
> sorry for that.
>
> Aubrey
>
>
>
> 2013/7/25 La Vallen 
>
>> Vad var det för ett ljushuve som kom på den briljanta iden att  skicka ut
>> ett meddelande till
>> varenda Användardisk på hela Wikisource?
>>
>> /Ronnie
>>
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>>
>>
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