[Wikitech-l] MediaWiki developer meet-up in Berlin, April 3-5

2009-01-19 Thread Daniel Kinzler 
Hello All

I'm happy to announce the MediaWiki Developer Meet-Up will happen April 3.-5. in
Berlin, at the c-base. The event is for everyone who works on MediaWiki, writes
extensions, builds bots, writes scripts for the toolserver, or is otherwise
interested in the technical aspects of Wikimedia. We are happy that we can now
have the meet-up after our plans for 25C3 and FOSDEM failed. If you want to come
to the Developer Meetup, please sign up at
.

The event will take place in parallel to the Wikimedia Foundation's board
meeting and chapter meeting, so there will be a lot of Wikimedians in Berlin at
the time. We plan to have a party to bring everyone together and give an
opportunity for developers, board members and chapter people to mingle.

The meet-up will be a loose BacCamp-like event so topics and schedule are
largely up to you. The goal is to get to know new aspects of MediaWiki and
Wikimedia and to develop ideas on how we can make things even better. And of
course to have a lot of fun with wiki hackers from around the world!

-- daniel

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[Wikitech-l] Transcoding Video Contributions in Mediawiki

2009-01-19 Thread Michael Dale 
Mike Baynton asked about some server side transcoding code he has worked 
on this seems appropriate for wikitech-l so I have cc'ed it here.

The current direction is to encourage in-browser client side 
transcoding. This offloads the costs of server side transcoding and 
maximizes quality letting us supply the transcode settings for 
generating theora files from the HD or DV source.  Instead of users 
uploading intermediary format at low bandwidth & arbitrary encode 
quality settings.

I see a few potential directions to take with the transcoder work that 
has been done...

1) Firefogg will request two copies one for archival and one for web 
streaming. Perhaps we want to create derivatives from the archival 
version (say for playback on a mobile device) and we need to re-derive 
everything from the archival version.

2) Perhaps the infrastructure you developed may be applicable to dealing 
out the tasks of "rendering out of sequences" of video. I have been 
working on a web video sequencer/editor that will playback in html5 
browsers but will need to be "flattened" to be played in other players, 
browsers, put on DVD's etc. The best way to do this will probably be the 
Gstreamer's GNonLin library (as used in PiTiVi). More on that later...

3) Perhaps we want to support _arbitrary file formats_ uploads from 
users not running firefox in the immediate term? I don't see this as 
hugely important. I think people that use video editing software or 
people regularly dealing with digital video assets can likely 
download/run firefox and handle the one click install of an extension. 

3.5) The special case ofcourse is supporting video contributions from 
mobile devices that are limited to encoding hardware specific video 
codecs... But I think we would wait on this until A) we have the upload 
api working, B) have an actual use case. ie lets get uploading photos 
from cellphones working first.  This use case will likely include 
funding given the controlled exposure of applications / services in cell 
phone devices. (hopefully that controlled environment issue will change 
though)  ...ultimately we want to push out patent unencumbered formats 
to the "phones" too...

peace,
--michael

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Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki developer meet-up in Berlin, April 3-5

2009-01-19 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
Who says that the meet-up at FOSDEM will fail?? With people from the USA,
the Netherlands, Finland, Germany and Great Britain arriving with MediaWiki
on their mind, it can hardly be called a failed meet up. I am also quite
sure that if you want to talk about MediaWiki localisation and
internationalisation, this is the event for you. If you are interested in
the extension testing environment, FOSDEM is where it will be publicly
demonstrated.
Thanks,
  GerardM

2009/1/19 Daniel Kinzler 

> Hello All
>
> I'm happy to announce the MediaWiki Developer Meet-Up will happen April
> 3.-5. in
> Berlin, at the c-base. The event is for everyone who works on MediaWiki,
> writes
> extensions, builds bots, writes scripts for the toolserver, or is otherwise
> interested in the technical aspects of Wikimedia. We are happy that we can
> now
> have the meet-up after our plans for 25C3 and FOSDEM failed. If you want to
> come
> to the Developer Meetup, please sign up at
> .
>
> The event will take place in parallel to the Wikimedia Foundation's board
> meeting and chapter meeting, so there will be a lot of Wikimedians in
> Berlin at
> the time. We plan to have a party to bring everyone together and give an
> opportunity for developers, board members and chapter people to mingle.
>
> The meet-up will be a loose BacCamp-like event so topics and schedule are
> largely up to you. The goal is to get to know new aspects of MediaWiki and
> Wikimedia and to develop ideas on how we can make things even better. And
> of
> course to have a lot of fun with wiki hackers from around the world!
>
> -- daniel
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Drafts extension in testing

2009-01-19 Thread Brion Vibber 
On 1/17/09 6:44 PM, Jackey Tse wrote:
> can't save summary?

Should work. Does it behave differently to what you expect?

-- brion

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Re: [Wikitech-l] leading newlines are removed one by one on every edit

2009-01-19 Thread Brion Vibber 
On 1/17/09 4:13 PM, Marcus Buck wrote:
> I just realized that if a page has leading newlines, on every page edit
> exactly one line is removed. This is no expected behaviour, is it? I'd
> expect, that a null edit does not change the page.

This is bug 12130:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12130

-- brion

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Transcoding Video Contributions in Mediawiki

2009-01-19 Thread Mike.lifeguard 
>The current direction is to encourage in-browser client side
>transcoding. This offloads the costs of server side transcoding
and
>maximizes quality letting us supply the transcode settings for
>generating theora files from the HD or DV source.  Instead of
users
>uploading intermediary format at low bandwidth & arbitrary
encode
>quality settings.
Why can we not do server-side transcoding to derive a few files
(ie 3 levels of quality, plus an animated gif thumbnail...?) akin
to Archive.org?
This seems to work nicely for them (and me, when I used it).
Simply upload your file, and it automatically transcodes the file
into the appropriate derivative files. This is certainly a lot
easier than asking the user to do it (most have no sweet clue,
and even experienced users are in over their head), and ensures
that the derived files have a minimal level of quality (ie no
transoding mistakes, which is easy to do if you don't know what
you're doing), saves the user time and energy, and also automates
a repetitive task. If we're asking users to upload several sizes
of a video because we can't "thumbnail" while streaming it then
instead of making them transcode it a bunch of times so there are
a few sizes of the file, WMF servers can do it.
Incidentally, archive.org required me to transfer the file via
FTP, which would also be /very/ nice to allow on WMF servers.
Cheers,
Mike

  Mike.lifeguard
  mikelifegu...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Transcoding Video Contributions in Mediawiki

2009-01-19 Thread Gregory Maxwell 
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Mike.lifeguard
 wrote:
[snip]
> into the appropriate derivative files. This is certainly a lot
> easier than asking the user to do it (most have no sweet clue,
> and even experienced users are in over their head),

You're missing a major component of this.  The whole thing mr. dale is
discussing is the use of the firefogg firefox extension.   This does
client side transcoding, but as far as the user can tell it's all done
by the server except no long transmission time for his 14gbyte DV
movie. (although, perhaps a long transcoding time. :) )

There are some other potential benefits to client side transcoding…
such as a being able to use the user's local codecs for decode.  The
desired end result being "if the user can play it; he can upload it".
(otherwise you require the server to support decoding every format
ever invented, which may not be realistic).

[snip]
> and ensures
> that the derived files have a minimal level of quality (ie no
> transoding mistakes, which is easy to do if you don't know what
> you're doing), saves the user time and energy, and also automates
> a repetitive task. If we're asking users to upload several sizes

Firefogg can handle all this, so long as you make an assumption that
the user isn't totally CPU starved.

I'm not trying to trumpet the extension based solution here— just
attempting to point out that it was created to address many of these
issues, and it's what is being mentioned.

[snip]
> Incidentally, archive.org required me to transfer the file via
> FTP, which would also be /very/ nice to allow on WMF servers.

In your first breath you were speaking of users with no clue being in
over their head, and now you bring up upload via FTP.  Think about it.

;)

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Transcoding Video Contributions in Mediawiki

2009-01-19 Thread Michael Dale 
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> This does
> client side transcoding, but as far as the user can tell it's all done
> by the server except no long transmission time for his 14gbyte DV
> movie. (although, perhaps a long transcoding time. :) )
>   
At some talks here a FOMS (foundations of open source media) meeting we 
discussed adding support for uploading _while_ transcoding to firefogg. 
Also we will talked about supporting splitting the encoded file every 
meg or so and re-assembling them on the server.  This way if your 
browser http POST connection gets reset halfway though your upload it 
will just resume on the next chunk instead of starting from scratch. 
(eventually we could support the 
http://code.google.com/p/gears/wiki/ResumableHttpRequestsProposal )

We also discussed adding dirac support to firefogg... Other related 
stuff was discussed...I will try and do a full wikimedia related report 
back from FOMS shortly.

To further respond to Mike.lifeguard inquiry:

If people can operate an FTP and have the massive bandwidth necessary to 
upload source material I highly recommend they upload to archive.org. We 
will be supporting archive.org as a remote repository so it will be easy 
to embed any ogg piece from there into a wikipedia article see:
http://metavid.org/blog/2008/12/08/archiveorg-ogg-support/

I don't think wikimedia is targeting (in the immediate future) the 
multi-petabyte storage and multi-thousand cpu system necessary to store 
and transcode original DV and MPEG2 streams of everything.  I think it 
makes sense to partner with like minded organizations for this purpose.

peace,
--michael

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Client side transcoding with firefogg (early testing)...

2009-01-19 Thread Michael Dale 
opps bad url for add_media_wizard try:

importScriptURI('http://mvbox2.cse.ucsc.edu/w/extensions/MetavidWiki/skins/add_media_wizard.js');

--michael


Michael Dale wrote:
> While the upload API is under development / stabilization ... I hacked 
> in basic firefogg upload support to the add_media_wizard ...  Since 
> firefogg works over post you can use it with the existing upload 
> interface (without good error handling) If you first download the 
> browser extension from firefogg.org you can do client side transcoding 
> by adding in:
>
> importScriptURI('http://mvbox2.cse.ucsc.edu/wiki/extensions/MetavidWiki/skins/add_media_wizard.js');
>
> to your User:Name/monobook.js page on commons... once added visit the 
> upload page and hopefully it gives you the option to transcode ;)
>
> This is just a proof of concept demo.. we should soon have real 
> integration ;)
>
> peace,
> --michael
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki developer meet-up in Berlin, April 3-5

2009-01-19 Thread Daniel Kinzler 
Gerard Meijssen schrieb:
> Hoi,
> Who says that the meet-up at FOSDEM will fail?? With people from the USA,
> the Netherlands, Finland, Germany and Great Britain arriving with MediaWiki
> on their mind, it can hardly be called a failed meet up. I am also quite
> sure that if you want to talk about MediaWiki localisation and
> internationalisation, this is the event for you. If you are interested in
> the extension testing environment, FOSDEM is where it will be publicly
> demonstrated.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM

FOSDEM is going to be fun, and I'm going to be there. But the plan was to get a
room there -- which didn't work out. So we have set up our own date & time for a
meeting that'll focus on mediawiki development.

Anyway: FOSDEM is going to be a good place to be, and we will talk about
mediawiki (Brion even gives a presentation), but we will have a barcamp-style
developer event in april in berlin. Having both at FOSDEM would have been great,
but we didn't get the room, so that's how it is.

I hope scheduling our meet-up in berlin in parallel with the board & chapter
meetings will help to get people together. Also, the c-base is a great place to
work and to party :) So I hope you'll all come and join us.

-- daniel

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