[Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
I've just noticed that the slippy map within the wmflabs GeoHack page does not work when accessed via HTTPS, and thought I should mention it here. For example, compare: http://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Fooparams=10_N_10_E with https://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Fooparams=10_N_10_E Could this be a mixed-content issue involving the script that drives the slippy map not using protocol-relative URLs, or the slippy map tile provider not responding to HTTPS? Neil ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
What browser are you using? Works for me in Firefox 23.0.1 and Chrome 29.0.1547.62 on OS X 10.8. -- brion On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:14 AM, Neil Harris n...@tonal.clara.co.uk wrote: I've just noticed that the slippy map within the wmflabs GeoHack page does not work when accessed via HTTPS, and thought I should mention it here. For example, compare: http://tools.wmflabs.org/**geohack/geohack.php?pagename=** Fooparams=10_N_10_Ehttp://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Fooparams=10_N_10_E with https://tools.wmflabs.org/**geohack/geohack.php?pagename=** Fooparams=10_N_10_Ehttps://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Fooparams=10_N_10_E Could this be a mixed-content issue involving the script that drives the slippy map not using protocol-relative URLs, or the slippy map tile provider not responding to HTTPS? Neil __**_ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Brion Vibber bvib...@wikimedia.org wrote: What browser are you using? Works for me in Firefox 23.0.1 and Chrome 29.0.1547.62 on OS X 10.8. Does not work for me on Firefox 23.0 on Windows with Blocked loading mixed active content http://toolserver.org/~dschwen/wma/iframe.html?10_10_700_500_en_5_englobe=Earthlang=enpage=Fooclient=GeoHack Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:GeoHack.jsaction=rawctype=text/javascript Line: 42 -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
Hmm... HTTPS Everywhere might be borking something in my Firefox and making it work unexpectedly. :) In Chrome, I do see mixed-content warnings in the JavaScript console; tiles and such appear to be being loaded insecurely. -- brion On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Petr Kadlec petr.kad...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Brion Vibber bvib...@wikimedia.org wrote: What browser are you using? Works for me in Firefox 23.0.1 and Chrome 29.0.1547.62 on OS X 10.8. Does not work for me on Firefox 23.0 on Windows with Blocked loading mixed active content http://toolserver.org/~dschwen/wma/iframe.html?10_10_700_500_en_5_englobe=Earthlang=enpage=Fooclient=GeoHack Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:GeoHack.jsaction=rawctype=text/javascript Line: 42 -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
On 30/08/13 14:17, Brion Vibber wrote: What browser are you using? Works for me in Firefox 23.0.1 and Chrome 29.0.1547.62 on OS X 10.8. -- brion Firefox 24.0 beta 6, running on Debian Linux 6.0. I wonder if this may involve some tighter checking on same-origin etc. in Firefox 24. If so, this may be an early warning of possible problems when Firefox push 24.0 out to the wide world in a few weeks' time. I'll go check this on some other browser/OS combinations. -- N. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Neil Harris n...@tonal.clara.co.uk wrote: On 30/08/13 14:17, Brion Vibber wrote: What browser are you using? Works for me in Firefox 23.0.1 and Chrome 29.0.1547.62 on OS X 10.8. Firefox 24.0 beta 6, running on Debian Linux 6.0. I wonder if this may involve some tighter checking on same-origin etc. in Firefox 24. If so, this may be an early warning of possible problems when Firefox push 24.0 out to the wide world in a few weeks' time. Looking it up... Per https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Security/MixedContent the default block on mixed HTTPS/HTTP content was added in Firefox 23, so it might just be that HTTPS Everywhere is activating even when I've got it disabled and silently 'fixing' it for me. :) I can confirm the load fail on my Windows box which has a fresher Firefox 23 installation. I'll go check this on some other browser/OS combinations. IE 10 also shows a warning, though you can click through to show the hidden content. Safari seems to pass it through. I definitely recommend fixing the geohack page to work properly over SSL... -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
On 08/30/2013 10:21 AM, Brion Vibber wrote: I definitely recommend fixing the geohack page to work properly over SSL... Given that the actual webserver fully allows https, I expect the only issue is protocol specified in some constructed URLs and should be fairly simple to fix. The listed maintainers of the Tool Lab's geohack are Magnus Manske and Kolossos; Perhaps poking one of them? -- Marc ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: On 08/30/2013 10:21 AM, Brion Vibber wrote: I definitely recommend fixing the geohack page to work properly over SSL... Given that the actual webserver fully allows https, I expect the only issue is protocol specified in some constructed URLs and should be fairly simple to fix. The listed maintainers of the Tool Lab's geohack are Magnus Manske and Kolossos; Perhaps poking one of them? Isn’t the only problem the hardcoded http: URL for the map iframe in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:GeoHack.js, fixable by any enwiki sysop? -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
On 30/08/13 15:21, Brion Vibber wrote: On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 7:13 AM, Neil Harris n...@tonal.clara.co.uk wrote: IE 10 also shows a warning, though you can click through to show the hidden content. Safari seems to pass it through. iOS 6 on an iPhone is also happy to display the slippy map on the https: page, so presumably also lacks the mixed content check. -- N. I definitely recommend fixing the geohack page to work properly over SSL... -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Petr Kadlec petr.kad...@gmail.com wrote: Isn’t the only problem the hardcoded http: URL for the map iframe in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:GeoHack.js, fixable by any enwiki sysop? ..and done. :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:GeoHack.js#HTTPS_fix -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Slippy map embedded in geohack page not working in HTTPS mode
On 30/08/13 15:41, Brion Vibber wrote: On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Petr Kadlec petr.kad...@gmail.com wrote: Isn’t the only problem the hardcoded http: URL for the map iframe in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:GeoHack.js, fixable by any enwiki sysop? ..and done. :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:GeoHack.js#HTTPS_fix -- brion Yes, that's fixed it. Thank you! -- Neil ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Advance notice: I'm taking a sabbatical October-December
On 08/28/2013 10:41 AM, Quim Gil wrote: PS: if we get bored here we will start collecting bugs to test you when you're back. ;) You might not even have to wait that long! If you see a Sumana Harihareswara contributing patches to pywikipediabot sometime in November, that'll be me. :) -- Sumana Harihareswara Engineering Community Manager Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] List of projects supported by Wikimedia
On 08/29/2013 03:02 PM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: Hi, Thank you but I think PWB (pywikipedia) is missing http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/PWB Hi, I actually asked around about the PyWikiBot repositories since I wasn't sure what to do about it. PWB is in the fringe area: not a project officially supported by WMF/Wikimedia but then again a project that Wikimedia communities depend upon. Your ping helps finding the answer: let's include it. :) There are many repos under /pywikibot. Please list the appropriate ones under https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil/Supported_projects#PyWikipediaBot filtering out upstream projects with little or no changes, data repos and personal sandboxes if any. Thank you! On 8/29/13, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi, in the context of the tech community metrics KPIs [1]... We need a list of OSS projects developed by the Wikimedia/MediaWiki community and deployed in Wikimedia servers + apps. There was none, so here is an attempt: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil/Supported_projects Please have a look to see if there is something missing, or something that shouldn't be there. Feel free to edit directly or to comment at the related bug report: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53374 [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Community_metrics#Key_performance_indicators -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [WikimediaMobile] Wikimedia Commons mobile photo uploader app updated on iOS and Android
I missed this email, sorry for the delay. Is there a list of domain names that are in use for the mobile apps? I can cross-reference those domains with the load balancer IPs. On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Brion Vibber bvib...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Adam Baso ab...@wikimedia.org wrote: Rupert, I saw your question regarding Wikipedia Zero. Wikipedia Zero is currently targeted for the mobile web, but I'll take this question back to the business team as to whether we'd be able to support zero-rating of apps traffic at some point in the future, at least in locales where moderate bandwidth is available. I think that once the zero-rating is switched to support HTTPS by using IP-based instead of Deep Packet Inspection-based HTTP sniffing, ISP partners wouldn't actually be able to distinguish between mobile web and mobile apps content unless we actively choose to make them use separate IPs and domain names. Especially if, as we think we're going to, the future Wikipedia mobile app will consist mostly of native code widgets and modules that plug into the web site embedded in a web control... it'll be loading mostly the same web pages from the same servers, but running a different mix of JavaScript. -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] List of projects supported by Wikimedia
I requested some of WMF people to make this project as an official project several times but no progress despite the fact that this project has been active since 2003 and It's one of the most widely used framework for editing in WMF projects I added some names but there are some projects that are not very active or written for just once time running (like sf-export which is under constructing for migration from sourceforge to bugzilla http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot/Migrating_to_bugzilla) But feel free to edit mercilessly! Best On 8/30/13, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote: On 08/29/2013 03:02 PM, Amir Ladsgroup wrote: Hi, Thank you but I think PWB (pywikipedia) is missing http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/PWB Hi, I actually asked around about the PyWikiBot repositories since I wasn't sure what to do about it. PWB is in the fringe area: not a project officially supported by WMF/Wikimedia but then again a project that Wikimedia communities depend upon. Your ping helps finding the answer: let's include it. :) There are many repos under /pywikibot. Please list the appropriate ones under https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil/Supported_projects#PyWikipediaBot filtering out upstream projects with little or no changes, data repos and personal sandboxes if any. Thank you! On 8/29/13, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi, in the context of the tech community metrics KPIs [1]... We need a list of OSS projects developed by the Wikimedia/MediaWiki community and deployed in Wikimedia servers + apps. There was none, so here is an attempt: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil/Supported_projects Please have a look to see if there is something missing, or something that shouldn't be there. Feel free to edit directly or to comment at the related bug report: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53374 [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Community_metrics#Key_performance_indicators -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Amir ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] [MediaWiki-announce] Pre-Release Announcement for MediaWiki 1.19.8, 1.20.7, and 1.21.2
This is a notice that on Tuesday, September 3rd between 20:00-21:00 UTC (1-2pm PDT) Wikimedia Foundation will release security updates for current and supported branches of the MediaWiki software, as well as several extensions. Downloads and patches will be available at that time, with the git repositories updated later that afternoon. ___ MediaWiki announcements mailing list To unsubscribe, go to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-announce ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [WikimediaMobile] Wikimedia Commons mobile photo uploader app updated on iOS and Android
On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Adam Baso ab...@wikimedia.org wrote: I missed this email, sorry for the delay. Is there a list of domain names that are in use for the mobile apps? I can cross-reference those domains with the load balancer IPs. Wikipedia reader: * [language].wikipedia.org * possibly [language].m.wikipedia.org * upload.wikimedia.org * bits.wikimedia.org Commons uploader: * commons.wikimedia.org * possibly commons.m.wikimedia.org * upload.wikimedia.org There shouldn't be anything outside of those that gets hit, that I can think of. The apps mostly are using HTTPS these days, with some fallbacks to HTTP for old OS versions (and we may have to add them for China/Iran too). -- brion On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Brion Vibber bvib...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Adam Baso ab...@wikimedia.org wrote: Rupert, I saw your question regarding Wikipedia Zero. Wikipedia Zero is currently targeted for the mobile web, but I'll take this question back to the business team as to whether we'd be able to support zero-rating of apps traffic at some point in the future, at least in locales where moderate bandwidth is available. I think that once the zero-rating is switched to support HTTPS by using IP-based instead of Deep Packet Inspection-based HTTP sniffing, ISP partners wouldn't actually be able to distinguish between mobile web and mobile apps content unless we actively choose to make them use separate IPs and domain names. Especially if, as we think we're going to, the future Wikipedia mobile app will consist mostly of native code widgets and modules that plug into the web site embedded in a web control... it'll be loading mostly the same web pages from the same servers, but running a different mix of JavaScript. -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [WikimediaMobile] Wikimedia Commons mobile photo uploader app updated on iOS and Android
Thanks! On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Brion Vibber bvib...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Adam Baso ab...@wikimedia.org wrote: I missed this email, sorry for the delay. Is there a list of domain names that are in use for the mobile apps? I can cross-reference those domains with the load balancer IPs. Wikipedia reader: * [language].wikipedia.org * possibly [language].m.wikipedia.org * upload.wikimedia.org * bits.wikimedia.org Commons uploader: * commons.wikimedia.org * possibly commons.m.wikimedia.org * upload.wikimedia.org There shouldn't be anything outside of those that gets hit, that I can think of. The apps mostly are using HTTPS these days, with some fallbacks to HTTP for old OS versions (and we may have to add them for China/Iran too). -- brion On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Brion Vibber bvib...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Adam Baso ab...@wikimedia.org wrote: Rupert, I saw your question regarding Wikipedia Zero. Wikipedia Zero is currently targeted for the mobile web, but I'll take this question back to the business team as to whether we'd be able to support zero-rating of apps traffic at some point in the future, at least in locales where moderate bandwidth is available. I think that once the zero-rating is switched to support HTTPS by using IP-based instead of Deep Packet Inspection-based HTTP sniffing, ISP partners wouldn't actually be able to distinguish between mobile web and mobile apps content unless we actively choose to make them use separate IPs and domain names. Especially if, as we think we're going to, the future Wikipedia mobile app will consist mostly of native code widgets and modules that plug into the web site embedded in a web control... it'll be loading mostly the same web pages from the same servers, but running a different mix of JavaScript. -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Deploy schedule - Week of September 2nd, 2013
Deployment Schedule and Highlights Week of September 2nd, 2013 Full schedule: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployments#Week_of_September_2nd == Monday == No deploys! US holiday! (Labor Day) == Tuesday == * E2: Deploying updates/bug fixes to Echo and PageTriage * MediaWiki Core: We'll be deploying 1.22wmf15 to all non-Wikipedia sites (Wiktionary, Wikisource, Wikinews, Wikibooks, Wikiquote, Wikiversity, and a few other sites) ** See the release notes here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.22/wmf15 == Wednesday == * Wikipedia Zero: Finalizing their intended code * MobileFrontEnd: Graciously moved to Wed to allow MWCore on Tuesday. * Gerrit: The machine that hosts Gerrit will be swapped for a much more powerful machine. This should not cause any issues to end users if things go to plan. == Thursday == * MediaWiki Core: Version 1.22wmf15 will be deployed to all Wikipedia language sites. * MediaWiki Core: The next release of MediaWiki, 1.22wmf16, will be deployed to the test wiki group (test.wikipedia, test2.wikipedia, test.wikidata, and mediawiki.org) * E3 is deploying bug fixes to GuidedTour and GettingStarted. == Friday == No deploys! It's Friday! Have a good weekend and let me know if you have any questions, Greg -- | Greg GrossmeierGPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | | identi.ca: @gregA18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D | signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] login Javascript?
I have a bot editing script that started having trouble logging in to the English Wikipedia a few days ago. I think what's happening is that the login process started using Javascript in a way it didn't before, and is detecting that my script doesn't do Javascript (which it doesn't), and throwing a second, fallback, non-Javascript-using login page at the point where the script is expecting to have already logged in. So the question is, if this is the case, is there a way to force the use of the non-Javascript login page from the beginning? Or if this is not the case, is there some other recent change that might have affected the flow? (And, in case you're wondering, no, the script does not use the API, but yes, I know about it, and this may be the circumstance that goads me into actually using it.) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] login Javascript?
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=helpmodules=login ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/] On 2013-08-30 7:02 PM, Steve Summit wrote: I have a bot editing script that started having trouble logging in to the English Wikipedia a few days ago. I think what's happening is that the login process started using Javascript in a way it didn't before, and is detecting that my script doesn't do Javascript (which it doesn't), and throwing a second, fallback, non-Javascript-using login page at the point where the script is expecting to have already logged in. So the question is, if this is the case, is there a way to force the use of the non-Javascript login page from the beginning? Or if this is not the case, is there some other recent change that might have affected the flow? (And, in case you're wondering, no, the script does not use the API, but yes, I know about it, and this may be the circumstance that goads me into actually using it.) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
