[Wikitech-l] Re: Proposal: namespace Archived for mediawiki.org

[Nick Wilson (Quiddity)]

I like the idea of using
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Cirrussearch-boost-templates more
extensively, for both positive and negative boosts.
E.g. compare that to Wikitech's more extensive usage:
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Cirrussearch-boost-templates
(Docs: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:CirrusSearch#Boost-templates )

Perhaps we just need to apply {{historical}} more widely?
Or maybe we need a new Header-template that's distinct from {{historical}}
and {{outdated}} and {{fixme}} ?
The current list of related and widely-used templates is under
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Documentation/Style_guide/templates#Fixme

I think tagging pages is slightly preferable to moving pages, because it's
less complicated to undo, and still leaves content accessible to a basic
search (just further down the results), and to different use-cases (per
Gergő's comment), and doesn't get technically semi-blocked for translated
pages with >500 subpages.
However, it is more labor-intensive for pages with many English sub-pages
(i.e. needing to tag each individually), although I'm not sure how to
evaluate that issue, without preemptively seeing the massive list of the
pages that ought to be deprecated!

I'd recommend: Tag a few dozen pages, and simultaneously create a listing
of pages where tagging doesn't seem sufficient, so that we can discuss more
specific examples/buckets of examples.
E.g. you mentioned [[Help:Extension:WebFonts]] as a candidate for Archival,
but perhaps that could be handled in the same way as [[Extension:WebFonts]]
itself was (blank and tag it with {{archived extension}} )?  Plus I just
checked, and that page has over 500 subpages (from translations) so it
would require dev assistance to move!

The other semi-related problem this all makes me think of, is the cleanup
needed in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:PageTranslation to
"discourage" any outdated pages. I'm not sure how extensive that problem or
overlap is, but ideally anyone doing cleanup of one problem could also keep
in mind the other.

Hope that helps!
Quiddity.
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Extension! Re: Wikimedia developer satisfaction survey 2023 🧑‍💻📊

[Tyler Cipriani]

Hey Brian

Yep, thanks for the note.

We're in the draft phase now—lots of cool charts to be uploaded and
explanations yet to write.

Our current plan is to get finalized by the end of June, and up on Wiki
shortly after that.

It'll go on this page:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_Satisfaction_Survey/2023[^1]

Thanks!
– Tyler

[^1]: There will be a minor update in the final version to the demographics
that are there now—after we reviewed open answers we flagged a few more
responses as spam.

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 5:32 AM bawolff  wrote:

> Will the results for this be posted soon? It has been more than 3 months.
>
> --
> Brian
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 8:30 AM Tyler Cipriani 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> *Good news—✨you've got another week!✨*
>> We're extending the deadline to submit your answers to this year's
>> Developer Satisfaction Survey *until Fri, 24 Feb 2023!*
>>
>> As of yesterday we have:
>>
>>- 130 complete responses
>>- Roughly a 70%/30% staff/volunteer split
>>
>> We're hoping for 150 responses this year and we're s close.
>>
>> Thank you to those who've submitted surveys so far.
>>
>> Everyone else: you've got another week!
>>
>> Thanks!
>> – Tyler
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 2:32 PM Tyler Cipriani 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> Please take our annual* *Developer Satisfaction Survey*!
>>>
>>> Link: https://wikimediafoundation.limesurvey.net/484133
>>>
>>> The survey is open until Fri, 17 Feb 2023—two weeks from today.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> This survey is for members of the *Wikimedia Developer Community* and
>>> covers the following topics:
>>>
>>>
>>>-
>>>
>>>Code review tooling and process
>>>-
>>>
>>>Code quality
>>>-
>>>
>>>Phabricator
>>>-
>>>
>>>Continuous Integration
>>>-
>>>
>>>MediaWiki development environments
>>>-
>>>
>>>Beta cluster / Staging
>>>
>>>
>>> Please take the survey if you’ve used the above tools as part of your
>>> role developing software for the Wikimedia community.
>>>
>>> We’re soliciting your feedback to:
>>>
>>>-
>>>
>>>Measure developer satisfaction, and
>>>-
>>>
>>>determine where to invest resources in the future
>>>
>>>
>>> We will anonymize, explore, and report the data we gather on
>>> mediawiki.org. View previous years' survey results:
>>>
>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_Satisfaction_Survey
>>>
>>> Privacy statement: This survey will be conducted via a third-party
>>> service, which may subject it to additional terms. For more information on
>>> privacy and data-handling, see the survey privacy statement
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Tyler Cipriani (he/him)
>>> Engineering Manager, Release Engineering
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>> 
>>>
>>> *: “annual,” except we missed 2022 🙁
>>>
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Proposal: namespace Archived for mediawiki.org

[Derk-Jan Hartman]

What I'm hoping for is that we will have information that is relevant,
show up better than information that is no longer relevant, especially
for users of mediawiki.org that are newer and less versed in the history,
terminology and mechanics of MediaWiki.
At the same time we would still have all information available to anyone
more experienced and willing to look deeper, with a simple click of
"All" in the search page.

DJ


On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 3:37 PM Thiemo Kreuz 
wrote:

> What are the benefits you are hoping for?
>
> I understand that pages in the proposed namespace will not show up in
> search results any more, unless I specifically search in this
> namespace. While this can be beneficial, it can also have negative
> effects. If old pages are excluded users will often get seemingly
> incomplete or even empty results, thinking there is nothing to be
> found, or the internal search broken. Personally I rarely had issues
> with outdated pages polluting my search results. More the contrary. If
> old pages show up that's probably because I was searching for exactly
> that information.
>
> I hope we are not going to hide this namespace from external search
> engines, as this would make this content largely inaccessible.
>
> Another issue I see are broken links between pages. MediaWiki relies
> on one mechanism to make sure links between moved pages still work:
> redirects. These would need to stay behind. This can become a problem
> when people start deleting the redirects, or using them for other
> content.
>
> Personally I'm really not sure if a namespace is the best possible
> solution. mediawiki.org is more a continuum of content we collected
> over the years. Pages are rarely up to date. It would probably be less
> cumbersome to consider the existing main namespace an "archive" and
> only mark pages that are known to be up to date.
>
> Kind regards
> Thiemo
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Proposal: namespace Archived for mediawiki.org

[Gergo Tisza]

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 3:37 PM Thiemo Kreuz 
wrote:

> Personally I'm really not sure if a namespace is the best possible
> solution. mediawiki.org is more a continuum of content we collected
> over the years. Pages are rarely up to date. It would probably be less
> cumbersome to consider the existing main namespace an "archive" and
> only mark pages that are known to be up to date.
>

I'm also on the skeptical side. I think whether something is relevant is
rarely clear-cut. I think most pages where the information is in some sense
old, and cannot be fixed just by updating the page, fall into one of these
categories:

   - The page documents a thing. The thing still exists, but isn't
   important anymore. Maybe it's not used by Wikimedia, but used by others.
   - The page documents a project. The project is finished. The page is not
   outdated (since the project finished, there is no need to change its
   description) but not that relevant to present-day capabilities.

In both of these situations, it's not that obvious whether the reader would
want the page included in the search results or not.
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[Wikitech-l] Re: gotointerwiki-external

[Bináris]

bawolff  ezt írta (időpont: 2023. jún. 1., Cs, 14:24):

> Ensure that the iw_local field is set to 1. Otherwise the interwiki is not
> considered safe for automatic redirection.
>

Great, it works, thank you!
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[Wikitech-l] Re: gotointerwiki-external

[Andre Klapper]

Hi,

On Thu, 2023-06-01 at 14:04 +0200, Bináris wrote:
> Sorry for disturbing, but I did not find the answer in the docs.
> 
> I installed a MW  1.39.3 with an automated tool. Then I inserted a
> row into the interwiki table to make 'hu:' interwiki to recognize
> huwiki.
> 
> Now I write hu:anything into the search box, and get a message that I
> want to leave my wiki. Of course, I know, that's why I did it.
> What I could dig from translatewiki that the name of this message is
> 'gotointerwiki-external'.
> How could I switch this feature off and make my wiki just to go to
> the desired link?

https://codesearch.wmcloud.org/core/?q=gotointerwiki-external&files=&excludeFiles=.*json%24&repos=
points to
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/mediawiki/core/+/7833f3a238cee8b758c9166b94fb55e7d3a87c85/includes/specials/SpecialGoToInterwiki.php
for code to potentially change locally, and
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122209 for additional context.
It seems there is no setting for this.

Cheers,
andre
-- 
Andre Klapper (he/him) | Bugwrangler
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
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[Wikitech-l] Re: gotointerwiki-external

[bawolff]

Ensure that the iw_local field is set to 1. Otherwise the interwiki is not
considered safe for automatic redirection.

--
Brian

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 5:05 AM Bináris  wrote:

> Sorry for disturbing, but I did not find the answer in the docs.
>
> I installed a MW  1.39.3 with an automated tool. Then I inserted a row
> into the interwiki table to make 'hu:' interwiki to recognize huwiki.
>
> Now I write hu:anything into the search box, and get a message that I want
> to leave my wiki. Of course, I know, that's why I did it.
> What I could dig from translatewiki that the name of this message is
> 'gotointerwiki-external'.
> How could I switch this feature off and make my wiki just to go to the
> desired link?
>
> --
> Bináris
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[Wikitech-l] gotointerwiki-external

[Bináris]

Sorry for disturbing, but I did not find the answer in the docs.

I installed a MW  1.39.3 with an automated tool. Then I inserted a row into
the interwiki table to make 'hu:' interwiki to recognize huwiki.

Now I write hu:anything into the search box, and get a message that I want
to leave my wiki. Of course, I know, that's why I did it.
What I could dig from translatewiki that the name of this message is
'gotointerwiki-external'.
How could I switch this feature off and make my wiki just to go to the
desired link?

-- 
Bináris
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Extension! Re: Wikimedia developer satisfaction survey 2023 🧑‍💻📊

[bawolff]

Will the results for this be posted soon? It has been more than 3 months.

--
Brian

On Fri, Feb 17, 2023 at 8:30 AM Tyler Cipriani 
wrote:

>
> *Good news—✨you've got another week!✨*
> We're extending the deadline to submit your answers to this year's
> Developer Satisfaction Survey *until Fri, 24 Feb 2023!*
>
> As of yesterday we have:
>
>- 130 complete responses
>- Roughly a 70%/30% staff/volunteer split
>
> We're hoping for 150 responses this year and we're s close.
>
> Thank you to those who've submitted surveys so far.
>
> Everyone else: you've got another week!
>
> Thanks!
> – Tyler
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 2:32 PM Tyler Cipriani 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> Please take our annual* *Developer Satisfaction Survey*!
>>
>> Link: https://wikimediafoundation.limesurvey.net/484133
>>
>> The survey is open until Fri, 17 Feb 2023—two weeks from today.
>>
>> 
>>
>> This survey is for members of the *Wikimedia Developer Community* and
>> covers the following topics:
>>
>>
>>-
>>
>>Code review tooling and process
>>-
>>
>>Code quality
>>-
>>
>>Phabricator
>>-
>>
>>Continuous Integration
>>-
>>
>>MediaWiki development environments
>>-
>>
>>Beta cluster / Staging
>>
>>
>> Please take the survey if you’ve used the above tools as part of your
>> role developing software for the Wikimedia community.
>>
>> We’re soliciting your feedback to:
>>
>>-
>>
>>Measure developer satisfaction, and
>>-
>>
>>determine where to invest resources in the future
>>
>>
>> We will anonymize, explore, and report the data we gather on
>> mediawiki.org. View previous years' survey results:
>>
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_Satisfaction_Survey
>>
>> Privacy statement: This survey will be conducted via a third-party
>> service, which may subject it to additional terms. For more information on
>> privacy and data-handling, see the survey privacy statement
>> 
>> .
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Tyler Cipriani (he/him)
>> Engineering Manager, Release Engineering
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>> 
>>
>> *: “annual,” except we missed 2022 🙁
>>
>> ___
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Replag

[Manuel Arostegui]

Hello,

Cross posting my latest update on the task:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337446#8894523



*I am reducing the priority of this as all the hosts have been recloned now
and data should be up to date.We shouldn't be surprised if s6 and s8 (the
sections that never break) end up breaking on the sanitarium hosts, as if
the problem was 10.4.29, data might have been corrupted there and simply
didn't show up yet.I am going to do some data checking now on the recloned
versions before closing this task, hopefully by Monday if everything goes
fine in the next few days.*

*Things might still be slow on some of the tools as we are adding the
special indexes used in wikireplicas, that can be tracked at T337734
*

Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused (and the slowness we are still
experiencing)
Manuel.

On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 3:59 PM Manuel Arostegui 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am trying to get this fixed as fast as I can.
>
> There will be brief periods of total unavailability for a section at the
> time. Right now s7 is totally down (the data was almost a week out of date
> anyways).
> Next will be s5.
>
> Sorry for the inconveniences.
> Manuel.
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 11:04 PM Alec Vorwerk  wrote:
>
>> Yup, see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337446.
>>
>> Zabe
>>
>> Am 28.05.2023 um 22:46 schrieb Martin Domdey :
>>
>> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> it looks like there is a very big replication lag in dewiki.
>>
>> Is a debugging already in progress?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Martin ...
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>
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