Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
Good news: l10n-bot appears to be exporting translations again. I assume crisis has been averted. -- Matma Rex ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 11:51 AM Brad Jorsch (Anomie) wrote: > > "Added since 2018-09-27" would only be marginally better. Old overrides > wouldn't be lost, but you'd still wipe out new overrides that are intended > to actually be overrides rather than workarounds for this issue. > > Would that be worse than turning away missing/incorrect translations for ? Depends on how long is, I guess. I don't think we ever got an estimate of that? --scott ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 11:39 AM C. Scott Ananian wrote: > Wouldn't "delete all local overrides" (or "all local overrides added since > 2018-09-27") be a reasonable step to include in migration after the "new > translatewiki" is turned back on? > "Delete all local overrides" would be horrible, you'd lose all local wiki customizations. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAllMessages==modified=en=5000 for enwiki's customizations for example (although English might not be included in the purge), or https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:MediaWiki-Systemnachrichten==modified=de=5000 for dewiki's. "Added since 2018-09-27" would only be marginally better. Old overrides wouldn't be lost, but you'd still wipe out new overrides that are intended to actually be overrides rather than workarounds for this issue. -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Senior Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
Yes, we can run my deleteEqualMessages.php again, for all wikis. It does require byte equivalence. And in my experience that means it almost never does what you want. People will copy it slightly differently due to spacing or with less generic syntax (eg Wikipedia: vs Project), or someone will edit it since then on TWN. -- Timo On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 at 16:39, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:44 AM Brad Jorsch (Anomie) < > bjor...@wikimedia.org> > wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:37 AM C. Scott Ananian > > > wrote: > > > > > Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places? That is, > make > > > the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local > wiki, > > > and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki > > are > > > turned back on? > > > > > > > The "expect that it will be overwritten" part isn't how it works. The > local > > copy will remain in effect until someone deletes it. > > > > Wouldn't "delete all local overrides" (or "all local overrides added since > 2018-09-27") be a reasonable step to include in migration after the "new > translatewiki" is turned back on? > --scott > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:44 AM Brad Jorsch (Anomie) wrote: > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:37 AM C. Scott Ananian > wrote: > > > Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places? That is, make > > the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local wiki, > > and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki > are > > turned back on? > > > > The "expect that it will be overwritten" part isn't how it works. The local > copy will remain in effect until someone deletes it. > Wouldn't "delete all local overrides" (or "all local overrides added since 2018-09-27") be a reasonable step to include in migration after the "new translatewiki" is turned back on? --scott ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
Thank you. So, you are talking about avoiding any possibility to fix errors in existing messages, nevermind where. I am not sure the communities will be happy... Igal 2018-09-27 16:44 GMT+03:00 Brad Jorsch (Anomie) : > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:37 AM C. Scott Ananian > wrote: > > > Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places? That is, make > > the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local wiki, > > and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki > are > > turned back on? > > > > The "expect that it will be overwritten" part isn't how it works. The local > copy will remain in effect until someone deletes it. > > -- > Brad Jorsch (Anomie) > Senior Software Engineer > Wikimedia Foundation > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:37 AM C. Scott Ananian wrote: > Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places? That is, make > the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local wiki, > and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki are > turned back on? > The "expect that it will be overwritten" part isn't how it works. The local copy will remain in effect until someone deletes it. -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Senior Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:06 AM bawolff wrote: > Updates from translatewiki will be put on pause. You can continue to update > translations at translatewiki, but they won't show up on Wikimedia wikis > until the current issues are sorted out. > > In order to avoid things getting out of sync with translatewiki, we would > like to ask that you avoid translating things locally unless you really > need to until updates from translate wiki are turned back on. > Couldn't you also make sure to edit things in both places? That is, make the edit on translatewiki, then manually copy it over to your local wiki, and expect that it will be overwritten when updates from translatewiki are turned back on? --scott ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
Updates from translatewiki will be put on pause. You can continue to update translations at translatewiki, but they won't show up on Wikimedia wikis until the current issues are sorted out. In order to avoid things getting out of sync with translatewiki, we would like to ask that you avoid translating things locally unless you really need to until updates from translate wiki are turned back on. -- Brian On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 12:49 PM, יגאל חיטרון wrote: > N3 Trizek just said that translatewiki will work for existing messages. I > read here they will not. What is the right answer? Thank you. > Igal > > > 2018-09-27 15:47 GMT+03:00 יגאל חיטרון : > > > Sure, but *existing* messages are fixed all the time, if you want it or > > not. And you should choose - fix them locally, and then make it global > > after the translatewiki will return, or fix the in translatewiki, and it > > will not work at all. > > Igal > > > > > > 2018-09-27 14:47 GMT+03:00 : > > > >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:43 PM יגאל חיטרון > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should > >> recommend to > >> > fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com. > >> > > >> > >> Ermm, isn’t this _exactly_ what we want to avoid (and why the original > >> message was sent in the first place)? Local translations will not be > >> updated if neccessary, being stuck basically forever once set (and will > >> not > >> be propagated to other wikis, but that is the lesser problem; once > >> TranslateWiki starts working again, that will be fixed, the local > >> translations won’t). > >> > >> -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] > >> ___ > >> Wikitech-l mailing list > >> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > >> > > > > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
N3 Trizek just said that translatewiki will work for existing messages. I read here they will not. What is the right answer? Thank you. Igal 2018-09-27 15:47 GMT+03:00 יגאל חיטרון : > Sure, but *existing* messages are fixed all the time, if you want it or > not. And you should choose - fix them locally, and then make it global > after the translatewiki will return, or fix the in translatewiki, and it > will not work at all. > Igal > > > 2018-09-27 14:47 GMT+03:00 : > >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:43 PM יגאל חיטרון >> wrote: >> >> > Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should >> recommend to >> > fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com. >> > >> >> Ermm, isn’t this _exactly_ what we want to avoid (and why the original >> message was sent in the first place)? Local translations will not be >> updated if neccessary, being stuck basically forever once set (and will >> not >> be propagated to other wikis, but that is the lesser problem; once >> TranslateWiki starts working again, that will be fixed, the local >> translations won’t). >> >> -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] >> ___ >> Wikitech-l mailing list >> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> > > ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
Sure, but *existing* messages are fixed all the time, if you want it or not. And you should choose - fix them locally, and then make it global after the translatewiki will return, or fix the in translatewiki, and it will not work at all. Igal 2018-09-27 14:47 GMT+03:00 : > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:43 PM יגאל חיטרון > wrote: > > > Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should recommend > to > > fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com. > > > > Ermm, isn’t this _exactly_ what we want to avoid (and why the original > message was sent in the first place)? Local translations will not be > updated if neccessary, being stuck basically forever once set (and will not > be propagated to other wikis, but that is the lesser problem; once > TranslateWiki starts working again, that will be fixed, the local > translations won’t). > > -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 1:43 PM יגאל חיטרון wrote: > Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should recommend to > fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com. > Ermm, isn’t this _exactly_ what we want to avoid (and why the original message was sent in the first place)? Local translations will not be updated if neccessary, being stuck basically forever once set (and will not be propagated to other wikis, but that is the lesser problem; once TranslateWiki starts working again, that will be fixed, the local translations won’t). -- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]] ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
Hi. If so, I think that the next issue of the Tech news should recommend to fix the existing translations locally, instead of translatewiki.com. Igal (User:IKhitron) On Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 14:31 Bartosz Dziewoński wrote: > As I understand, nothing terrible will happen if you add new messages to > en.json. But new translations will not be added, so any new interfaces > will be in English for everyone, which is a poor experience. > > -- > Bartosz Dziewoński > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Wikitech-ambassadors] Translations on hold until further notice
As I understand, nothing terrible will happen if you add new messages to en.json. But new translations will not be added, so any new interfaces will be in English for everyone, which is a poor experience. -- Bartosz Dziewoński ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
